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General Celestial Steed Mount thread:
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That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who deicde to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
That's untrue, unfair and inflammatory.
Personally I dislike but can generally tolerate 'fluff' MTs. But some people won't brook even fluff MTs and they're perfectly justified in screaming and being pissed about that.
The mere presence of MTs of any description do, in some way, devalue a monthly subscription. Part of the appeal of a subscription is that you get access to the whole of the game for a single, flat fee. This is in direct contrast to free to play mmos where you have to buy access in bits and pieces as MTs.
So adding even fluff MTs to a subscription based MMO is going to offend some players - especially ones whose budgets can't stretch to buying all the extra bits and pieces. And they're perfectly justified in being offended.
My advice for those people would be to scream a bit (so Blizzard hears you) then jump ship and play a different MMO.
There are good subscription MMOs on the market which don't have MTs of any description.
I'm not that cynical. Imo, players will only stay as long as they feel they're getting their entertainment money's worth. Sure there will be the random addict (as with any form of entertainment), but none-the-less. As example, look at what happened with SWG.
Asking permission to use this as a sig. This, kind sir, is literary genius.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
It's nice to see that at least some people get it.
Thanks.
I am afraid I am the cynical unfortunately.SWG was a long time ago in relation to the industry.I bas emy cynicism on the outcry and bluster shown agianst L4D2 being released a year after L4D,Ubisofts DRM and th elack of dedicated servers for the PC version of Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2.All these things had gamers in an uproar and protesting and so forth but when launch day came the majority shut up and paid their money,going by the rcord sales for L4D2 and Cod:MW2 anyway.Ubisoft's DRM is a little bit more open for arguement on whether gamer's did put their money where their mouth was because so far those games using DRM are nto selling spectacularly but not failing badly either.
I would lump the sub + cash shop controversy in MMORPGs to be in the saem category as those above,especially in relation to WoW which has a more broad spectrum of users than most other MMORPGs.
Bobby Kotick said he wanted to get more involved with WoW. Looks like he finally got off his ass.
I think anyone with sense saw this coming.
And for those who don't understand why this is a "bad thing", let me break it down for you.
Lets say you're paying me $15 a month and I provide you service A&B.
Then I decide to provide service A, but to have all the features of service B you have to pay an extra $20 for each one, but I'm still going to charge you $15 a month.
Now lets say down the line I want more money from you, so I keep my fee at $15/mo, and now you have to pay various amounts to get the full feature set of A&B which while still being provided, are not the "complete" service you were once getting two steps ago. Keep in mind, the $15/mo you're giving to me is going towards the development of those other "extra" features I'm selling you again.
Can you see how this is a BAD trend which is ultimately pushing your limits of exploitation?
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
The problem with your analogy as it relates to right now is you don't need the mount or the pets to enhance your gameplay. They are not taking anything away from the 'B' part of the equation. It's keeps coming back to what you think you are entitled to for your 15 bucks a month. It's not written anywhere that all items in game can only be attainable 'in game'.
Again, tell me how this is different from the Spectral Tiger from the WoW TCG?
Feel free to do so.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Take most of the recent fantasy themepark mmos. Most of these titles quickly lost their subscription numbers relatively soon after launch. Imo, this was due to players not seeing the value in paying for those games. Sure they may have spent the money to give the game a try, but the value wasn't there to continue.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
According to a friend of mine who plays WoW, pets and mounts count towards achievements? If so, there is your advantage. There are always players who play for those statistics.
But even if it those items dont count for the achievements and its just fluff, its still content which is not obtainable through normal gameplay. Anyone who sees collecting fluff as part of playing WoW, will be disappointed by this (buying is not playing).
I think its a slippery slope. Could be that this is just a testcase to see how popular itll get.
You are taking this from the standpoint that the items from the cash shop are supposed to be included in the 14.99 which I disagree with because what is supposed to be included in the 14.99 price isn't clearly defined (and never will be). Do you think the tiger you get from the card game should also be included in the 14.99 price? How bout the zebra from RaF? Both of these are items that you cannot get through normal in game means.
The alternative to buying the mount? Try to get Invincible, which is the same skin, different color.
If you were that kind of player you would likely already have sunk a fair amount of cash into the TCG (or paid exorbitant prices on ebay) for mounts/pets, bought collectors editions of the expansions (again more $ for pets, and some other stuff) and would probably prefer to hand over $25 straight away for the latest thing. Those kinds of players being indeed a mite obsessive-compulsive, but if they're spending money on the TCG on a *chance* of a mount, a fishing chair, a murloc (whatever) - handing over $25 is likely no biggie.
If you're the kind of player with all available in-game mounts, earned by running and re-running instances/world events/faction grinding, but no interest in TCG mounts etc. you could probably care less about some mount that *anyone* can get for a charge on their cc.
I don't play WoW anymore, but a mount you pay for, that looks cool but scales to your riding skill (so you're not going to save the 5k gold for epic flight training) is nothing more than fluff to me. I wouldn't want it, wouldn't be impressed by anyone having one, so from my PoV they're essentially worthless.
I realise other differ on this, but if/when Blizzard introduce gear into the cash shop (even heirloom items, sure anyone who is level 80 can grind for it easy enough, but there still should be *some* gating as regards putting effort in for a reward) then it would be a different kettle of fish. Whether that'll happen or not is something we'll only know with time.
User Novva brings up a good point in the News Article thread: how do the cash shop items differ from the exclusive ingame pet provided from the collectors edition?
"How does the Celestial Steed mount work?
Much like the Headless Horseman's mount from the Hallow's End event, the Celestial Steed will automatically upgrade in speed as the player advances in Riding skill. For example, the Celestial Steed will run at normal ground speed if the character knows Apprentice Riding, and epic ground speed with Journeyman Riding. The mount will be able to fly at normal flight speed with Expert Riding, and at epic flight speed with Artisan Riding. In addition, if the character has a 310%-speed flying mount in his or her collection, the Celestial Steed will also fly at 310% speed."
So pretty much all toons, land, flying and skill scaling. So this doesn't affect the gameplay?
Don't see the big deal here. Decent looking mount..I might buy it...but it is unecessary. Someone mentioned it gives an advantage because it counts toward the mount collector achievement. Achievements are b.s. fluff anyway. Only a few that give you anything worth a spit. Just a fun way to fill time. Like MMo's in general. People get so upset over cash shops. The more avenues I have to enjoy myself in an mmo the better. As long as the shop items are limited to mostly fluff and not game breaking. Now...I think it's fine if some games do charge for items that might tilt the scales in your favor..and even though I choose not to take advantage of that kind of gameplay...I don't fault anyone who does.
Your welcome to you opinion on why recent ffantasy "thempark" MMORPGs have failed,as are th epeopel expressing a myriad of differing opnions ont he subject ont his and other forums.I would submit that trying a game and not liking it and thne quitting it is not the same as Liking a game and quitting it because of a business model,which would seme to be the crux of the argument here.
Flying mounth is one of the feature that destroyed the world of warcraft anyway. What can they do more to make wow being 100% lobby rpg?
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
Oh what a ridiculously disingenuous response.
Tell me, which has Blizzard set the precedent of doing for *years* now...
A) Adding in-game content that is available to everyone by playing the game
I'm not talking about server transfers, etc.. I'm talking in-game items, etc.
The correct answer, by the way, is A.
Now let's take it a step farther..
Why would they suddenly decide to start adding in-game content for an additional microtransaction?
A) Because they decided one day that "players are getting enough for their sub fee! We should start charging extra for stuff! It's only fair!"
The correct and obvious answer, by the way... is B.
Unless you believe it's purely coincidence that they started dabbling in microtransactions during the same period that the payment model started gaining some footing in the Western market? Would be pretty naive if that was the case.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Sure it is. Regardless of whether you left due to boredom, changes in business model (or perceived unethical behavior), etc. the deal is you no longer saw the value in paying for the service. We may be diving a bit into symantics, but we're still onto the same idea.
More so, this is why SWG is germaine to the discussion.
Yeah blizz doesn't use it as a sole business model... i mean there's not a store inside the MMO... unlike some other AAA called titles... Cryptic.... who would do a subscription AND micro transactions as their BASE plan...
-whistles-
if blizz can make money, good on them... after 5 years, it's not like they came out the starting blocks EA console style
"nothing actually matters, we're just slightly evolved monkeys clinging to a dying piece of rock hurtling through space waiting for our eventual death." - Frankie Boyle, Mock The Week
I don't get why everyone is freaking out they have had "cosmetic" sort of things out for a while. You have to pay for server transfers, faction transfers,and change your race/appearance. None of those things can be obtained by in game mechanics/work, yet there is no frothing mob against them. I currently play wow and the prospect of buying ridiculous non combat pets our worthless mounts for real money does not bother nor offend me. Why should I care? I personally would not waste my money on any of the a fore mentioned things so to each his own, but if they begin to sell gear, potions, or other "major" game changing items then my torch and pitchfork will be right next to your.
And yet you completly ignored my point that they have been adding content outside of game for years now:
Spectral Tiger from the WoW TCG (out of game)
Collectors Edition pet
Recruit a Friend mount
Authenticator pet
So to the point, they have always added stuff for additional microtranactions. Buying the TCG cards is a microtransaction, just in another form. Buying another account to get the mount via RAF is a microtransaction (you're giving Blizzard extra money for the account). They been charging 25 bucks for services like server transfers, sex changes, factions changes, etc for years.
What precedent are you talking about? This isn't anything new.
I'm not sure how this got to 13 pages, but you might want to be careful or this tempest might destroy a perfectly good teacup.