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Whiners win, long term progression is dead.
trashburnin
Member Posts: 223
"We are significantly changing the progression of hitpoints in a diminishing returns fashion. This is done to improve a character’s viability in PvP situations and to make players of all levels more competitive." -Tasos
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=243962
Once again the hardcore dedicated players get the shaft as their months spent training up their hit points can be made up for in "significantly" reduced time byt he whiners who weren't willing to put forth the effort.
Character progression was part of the compitition in DF and since they just keep making things easier for the whiners, this competitive gamer is going to start looking for another game, one that doesn't cater to whiners who incessently post about how the game needs to be made easier to attract customers.
I thought lessons would have been learned from the last game that was ruined by increasing character progression rate, SWG, but it seems AV is doomed to repeat the same mistake.
more end game content is going to not going keep me playing DF when they contiually give the less intelligent vocal whiners an easy ride so they can "catch up" with what some of us have spent months to achieve.
I'm finally getting near HP cap after over a year of play and now AV is allowing everyone to get there in a significantly reduced amount of time. Doesn't make me very happy, in fact it makes me not give a shit about the game anymore and makes me contemplate getting hacks to make up for all the work that will have been wasted developing my character.
Why would I, as a competitive gamer, continue to play a game that is continually made easier due to the developers catering to those who aren't willing to put forth the same amount of effort as everyone else?
some play DF because they like the idea of character development being part of the compitition, when that is gone, so will those players will start to be.
this isn't about having an advanced character to win with, this is about those advanced characters getting killed simply b/c they are vs more than one opponent. Darkfall is rarely about 1v1 and competitive gamers need to be able to 2v1 and 3v1 the noobs to keep them playing. Not like in WoW and other pvp mmorpgs where you don't stand a chance outnumbered nomatter how much skill you have, that is why I quit WoW.
Comments
Starting to sound like they should rename the game DarkWoW or WoWfall, something like that. Kind of glad i didnt stick with DF since it would have been a waste of time, since apparently all i have to do is wait awhile, and it will eventually get to a point where i can just login and be as strong as the best in a week or 2, rathe rthan needing to actually invest lots of time getting better.
qq grind, qq no-grind lol?
they did not say stats will increase faster, only hp calculation way changes i think
Diminishing returns are not quite the same thing as what you are suggesting. This is more in line with skill gain. . faster gain earlier with slower and slower gains at the top. I don't care either way but I think it makes sense. Was it a result of people complaining about the "grind" or the game being unfair? maybe. That doesn't mean it is a bad choice.
It could look like this:
Previous gains: 3 months 50% of max 6 months 70% 1 year 100%
new system: 3 months 65% 6 months 80% 1 year 100%
There is nothing to suggest that the time to get to max will not be just as long as before.
It could be that they announced that to shut people up and it won't make a huge difference. Do we actually know the formula they are going to use?
Also I am honestly a little confused. . The game is supposed to be player skill based. I am only about 2 months into the game and I get that hard work should pay off. . but think of the non stat based skills gain that vets have. . game knowledge, tactics. . environmental awareness etc.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
seriously STFU I've been playing DF since launch and followed it before launch, you obviously don't know the original concept of DF was no grind so stfu go back to a korean grinder this might actually bring some population back to the dead game.
@ OP
You are over reacting and you damn well know its true. You, nor I have seen the new system in place (tasos just posted about it for christs sake!)
I personally just sub'd back to DF after getting a new comp and I am happy to know my health will be at a more viable level.
I know it must be dissapointing to have your hard work just thrown out the the door (well not completely) , but come on your crying is just going to polarize this fragile community even more so QUIT IT. I rarely post about this game, but I am sick of seeing people from both sides of the many arguments that exist about DF's many game play elements.
Okay....the parts I highlighted up there ^^^^......
THAT is part of what is wrong with MMOs these days in my opinion. And believe it or not....I'm actually going to compare what you just said to what the douchebags at Blizzard repeatedly did to WoW and it's original player base. It's why many people slowly began to not give a shit. And they CONTINUE to do similar things, which is also one of the factors of community division in that game.
It goes something like this:
Original game is released.
People that enjoy the game play sub at release and begin progressing through the game.
The "work" (lol...I know, but stay with me here) toward whatever their goals in the game are.....they harvest, craft, sell, and diligently save gold to buy their first mount at level 40, begin working toward PvP titles, gradually get epic gear....one piece at a time (since only one piece drops in a dungeon, and you can only get a full set by running many dungeons, AND....you won't necessarily win it), etc. etc.
In comes a new group of trial players.
The ones who like the game play sub.
Upon realizing they are now a year behind (or whatever amount behind they are)....they begin to WHINE. Whine, whine, whine. They post on the official forums, and on game forums everywhere...they cry rivers to the devs. They threaten to leave and take their precious sub money with them if they don't see changes. They bring their friends....who whine too.
Developer gives in.
"Veteran" player base gets the shaft. All their effort in game is rendered meaningless. Their titles are stripped away (they did later return them in a handy dandy drop down menu...whoopity doo). The new players will get mounts 20 levels sooner and for 1/20 th of the cost. Last season's epic arena gear will now be up for grabs for anyone with enough honor from BGs (not arena, but BGs) to buy, hence the term "welfare epics" is born.....
Original player base begins to feel a bit sour and resentfull as this cycle is rinsed....and repeated....numerous times.
Eventually original player base doesn't give a rat's fuckin' ass about the game any more because any reason that they STARTED playing it...is now gone...many of their "accomplishments" are not recorded and now have to be repeated to get "achievements" even IF....they had the server first of something...they no longer do, etc.
Game begins bleeding original subs....not all of them, mind you....but some. Some of them take their friends with them when they leave.
Some of the players begin to post ways they feel griefed by the developer on web forums, and begin speaking about game mechanics that destroyed the game they first enjoyed, which has now become a hollow shell to them of what it once was.
Those players get labeled as "haters" and "trolls," for having complaints that, to them, are very genuine.
And this cycle will continue.
Dude...I feel for ya....I really do. If you end up seeing these changes as bad, and see this sort of thing becoming a repeated trend....just walk away and don't look back. There will BE more games, and better games....no matter what game you're playing.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
That is funny because I read Tasos' little blog and from what I gathered they catered to the ''veterans'' by holding firm on their stance that there isnt a grind in Darkfall. He said after 2 month's of moderate play you would be at double your beginer stats LOL and triple by 4 to 6 months LOL. I'm calling BS on that. I think they will lose a majority of the new players because of it.
Maybe I'm the one out of touch but from my perspective they are completely out of touch.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
game going to die now, character progression is subconciously entertaining. Just remember it was you crybabies who wanted this. Remember it was you who killed DF. I'm not going to play a game where they allow the weaklings to compete with the best, that is WoW.
Good job whiney babies, you've succesfully turned DF into easymode, hope you like all the fickle children you will have gained while losing proven long term players.
the whiners wont stop either, they will just move onto the next thing, maybe make enchanting easier or weapon and armor mastery easier untill every thing is dumbed down.
All the morons who think this is a good thing, just take a look at SWG. You aren't smart.
I hardly think changing the way ONE STAT works out of a dozen stats, and a hundred skills, is going to kill the game.
Vitality/HP gains were borked. Now they aren't.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
That may be true, and...it's really why I qualified at the end, "IF you end up seeing these changes as bad".....because....right now, you don't really know if they WILL be.
But I understand someone being upset by it BECAUSE....some times things like this are the first TRICKLE of the beginning of entire game nerfing (for lack of a better word). Hopefully....this won't happen with DF. I tend to think they know their player base, and being they are more catering to a niche market, as opposed to Blizzard's extremely BROAD market....they won't stray too far from the original concept that attracted the most loyal part of the subscriber base to begin with.
But...you know that greed is a great motivator for many people, and game developers have what most players subconsciously trust them to maintain....a balance between greed, loyalty to the original concept, loyalty to the original subscriber base that made you successful initially, and the need to be flexible enough to grow with the times. I think maintaining ALL of those things....is probably rather difficult.
So....being a bit....I don't know....suspect (?) about changes that might appear to be unfair....whether they end up being or not....is probably human nature, don't you think? Because things CAN INDEED change to the point of a game being barely recognizable from it's original form.
Let's just hope AV can maintain that balancing act. I think they can....but I guess, like with other games....only time will really tell.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I agree completely and it is a very fair expectation. It could be that they have indeed made the gains faster over all. . or that this is a way to test player subs in response to a percieved change. Your post was very accurate and the sceptisism is founded for sure.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
So basically because you were one of a select few willing to put up with the insanely high PvE grind just to begin PvPing without being instantly destroyed that makes you better than everyone else?
Apparently you're forgetting the little quote "even a noob can compete against a veteran and have a chance" originally advertised on their site by Tasos during development.
I guess giving more people an incentive to stick around and play is a bad thing; it should just be the "elite few" who either started from the beginning and put up with the bugs or managed to wade through the grind to get to the top.
PS. In case you don't understand; GRIND DOESN'T EQUAL SKILL. It's a time sink, not a degree of difficulty.
you could already gain HP much faster on new characters, the stat gain is not linear. Now everyone that will have been playing a while will have high hp, makes it more of a game where there is less middle ground. Its kind of funny b/c exactly the opposite of what some people are claiming is going to happen. New players will get into the game and instead of there being only a few players with really high hp, and having a good sized middle ground to quickly be viable against, everyone will have high hp and the new players will absoulotly be forced to grind out those hps before they can compete agaist the average player.
saying boo hoo instead of refuting my points with logic is just childish I think. You know I have a valid point and can't or won't argue against it. This increase HP gain patch will disgruntle a lot of players. Maybe some small minded people think, oh we don't need those players, but those players are the ones who haven't cancelled their subs for a patch they didn't like, they are the most dedicated customers and active players. Maybe DF will gain some population from the fickle players who need to have things dumbed down for them and who will prob quit again in the next patch they dislike, but DF will lose quite a few of those dedicated players as well as many players don't like to have their game dumbed down after they have put so much work into it, they will start looking for another game that doesn't cater to the masses of whiners. It has happened it almost EVERY MMO, yet still the whiners persist, destroying the game as it was supposed to be and changing it into some other easier game they prefer.
I'll dig out the quote if I can find it and show word for word. Even your three new player statement vs a true veteran is laughable. But seriously, it's laughable I'm a "moron" for reading a quote directly as it's said on their website.
Hmm, "comptetitive gamer" complaining about whiners and justifies his willingness to use hacks through false logic. Yay for the "hardcore."
All of that time AFK swimming wasted, damn.
Edit: you have not responded to any of my posts regarding what the actual announcement might mean. Your post to me seemed pretty angry and emotional. . . almost a boo hoo in its own right. I get that you are upset about the percieved threat to the time you spent in the game. it might not be what you think. I refuted your points with logic and you ignored that and responded to people equally as angry and emotional as you are.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
No one was fighting in the middle ground. They all assumed they'd die and afk macroed instead of PvPing. That's a mental problem you cannot fix.
dont you see, the competition is ruined. Its like being in a muscle building contest when you are only allowed to eat hot dogs, and after 1 year of eating hot dogs and working out they allow some guy who just entered the competition to drink GNC protein shake muscle builder which allows that new guy to have the same muscles in one month as the guy who has been eating hot dogs for one year but the guy who has been eating hot dogs has reached reached critical mass and won't benifit from drinking the shake. You think the guy eating hotdogs could consider this a fair competition ? You think he is going to give a shit about the rules of the game after that? Rules that get continually broken so the weaklings can compete with the best?
where is the false logic?
gah, what am i doing arguing with this fool.
Weaklings? LMAO! You take this silly game far too serious.
Edit: done
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
I dont know why any one who wants a game focused on PvP would be upset about getting more people to kill. if you realy are that good then that just means more kills and loot for you. sure it may make things easier for the new crowd to get out there and get owned, but thats what you want isnt it? you want people to fight against. if you are that good then you should want a challenge, and if killing a noob with 225 hit points still fighting gnolls is your idea of a good fight then maybe YOU should check out another game.
i say good idea, for some one that only has a few hours a week to dedicate to gaming i like this. I stoped playing DF not because i didnt like it, but because with the time I could play i would be a perma noob. atleast with this i can be a perma noob that lasts more then 4 hits.
edit: i just wanted to point out at no time did i cry or whine about getting ganked or the skill gains. Just realized with my limited time i would not be able to acomplish much in the game. so I unsubed.
the missing link in a chain of destruction.
All spelling and typographical errors are based soely on the fact that i just dont care. If you must point out my lack of atention to detail, please do it with a smile.