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The fear of F2P
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Select P2P's. There are still a large amount of them that do not, but you're right - games like WoW and a few others have implemented some basic RMT. To continue, I don't find it completely ridiculous to charge for name changes, or server transfers, or others things that are necessary to upkeep maintance. The moment an XP potion, or sword, or starter pack gets sold, however, that's when the playing field is no longer even, and those are the specific types of item transacitons I have a serious issue with.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
because 50% of the people who hate them are just following the crowd. F2P is fine, i've been playing them for about a year and haven't spent a dime. most people expect to play the game for free and still get to own everybody in PvP without using the cash shop. yes, cash shops can be very expensive, but it's not their fault that YOU spent hundreds of dollars to get a full set of +12 gear. then you have people complaining that they spent their life on a P2P game spamming dungeons for gear. basically, F2P requires cash and P2P requires time, so in the end it comes down to "do i spend $500 or 3 years of my life to be the best?".
Fact is you'll be much more efficient working instead of playing to be able to pay more, if it comes down to that, it's about the genre becoming pay to not play rather than pay to play.
I can say the same for some F2P, lots of them just sell some pretty cloth or some nice mounts. And XP potion is not rly bad, in WoW you can just pay for 2 account, get the mega xp bonus and lvl 3x faster!
I play F2P and P2P, And for me I wasted less cash in a F2P. In WoW I have to waste almost 200$ a year for subs and expansion.
LOL!
P2NP. That's a good one, thanks for that.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
It's true, though. Paying for our achievements just gives us less reason to actually play. Shouldn't playing to achieve things be how in-game benefits and items are obatained? Not through constructing walls in the mechanics to force people to pay for things to continue playing?
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
lol, I love the money/time arguement. I don't understand what kind of warped reasoning must be involved to make the two comparable. Gee you mean if I do something for long periods of time I get better rewards then someone who does it for far less?? OMG no way!! You mean if I go to college for four years I will know more then someone who went for one??? You mean if I take karate for a year I will have more skill then someone who took lessons for six months? I'd like to see someone "buy" knowledge or increased physical strength and vigor.
Do you really not see the difference between putting more effort, skill and time into a game as opposed to opening your wallet? If your just breaking it down into a formula of your times value versus money spent your missing the entire freaking point.
Let me try and put it as simply as possible:
Playing More: Spending more time in the game, actually playing the game, gaining power and skill through the game ITSELF which is kind of the point of playing, getting powered up is at MOST 70% time, 30% skill and I'm being really really consverative here. Your not going to melt faces in PVP through time alone, and if your anti social reject good luck in raiding no matter how much time you have.
Spending Money: Nothing to do with the game, Power gained out of the game using RL currency then you start up the game and POOF phat lootz in your inventory. NO SKILL WHATSOEVER, you have earned NOTHING through ingame means, no time invested, no socialzing, power gained outside of the game treadmill.
I completely understand that if you don't have enough money to pay for a game, you are going to play F2P game. I don't see anything wrong in this. Although i still consider $15 a month to be affordable to everyone, even if someone's income is just welfare.
What i don't understand is players, who spend in F2P games much more than a monthly sub, or to be more precise, i don't understand why they even play the game that is lower quality and still spend more money on it.
Not that I'd really care about such people, since i never play F2P games. What worries me is that ALL the MMOs are going to be F2P with cash shop in near future.
Indeed it is. I think this will become common usage.
P2NP, indeed.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Yeah, but you get that in sub games with gold farmers and power leveling services. But if people are paying not to play, even sub games, then isn't that a sign that the game isn't fun and people are just playing for rewards rather than the gameplay itself? Given how there isn't an MMO, either P2P or F2P, that doesn't have these problems, isn't that a good indication that MMORPGs aren't very fun?
Curiouser and curiouser....
Alright, lets take your real world analogies for a spin. Luxuries. I'm not talking crappy pay to win asian grinders here. I'm talking your reasonable F2P games that don't offer an "I win" button for sale. (oddly enough, tend to not focus on PvP either, but I digress).
I want nice things. I have the option to buy them. I do so. Sure, I can take the time, try and collect the pieces of the car and put it all together myself, or I can just buy it. I want a TV. I could settle for some crappy little free TV my mom gave me, or I can spend the money on a nice plasma.
I'm the kind of player that you seem so worried about. I don't care about skill. I'm here to play games for fun. Spending money enhances my fun. So I do it. If I wanted to play a game where skill mattered, I'd play something else. F2P games are my fun, my relaxation time, and like any fun hobby, if I want to invest money into it, I will.
That's my issue. It'd be easy just to say, "you know what, let bygones be bygones, let F2P and P2P coexist and players choose which they prefer". But it won't work that way. These companies are bottom lining it, just like everyone else, and their optimal concern is profit. If they can find a way to produce a far more inferior product while increasing sales, they're going to take the opportunity, and paying for these sub-par "free to play" games is sending a message to developers and studios: we don't care what kind of crap you create, we're mindless enough to pay you for it.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Fears of F2P are completely unwarrented. I think people are just so used to the typical F2P (as people put it "pay to win") that nickels and dimes customers. These are just bad F2Ps. This probably won't be the case with LotRO, as it's not the case with DDO. I'm assuming most people are worried that all their other MMOs might go F2P and they'll turn into nickel and dime shops since the announcement of LotRO there has been a huge influx of posts concerning this topic cropping up (not that it didn't already).
For an example of a good cash shop look at League of Legends. I'm not going into details because I do so once a week, but there really is no way to tell aside from cosmetic differences like skins who is using the cash shop or not. All the cash shop gives you is more options such as being able to purchase champions with the cash shop inside of the in game money so you can spend more on runes instead.
Let's take a look at DDO...
1. There is an option for paying a subscription. Not only do you unlock all the major premium content, but you also get points to spend in the store for all the additional stuff per month. This puts you on equal footing with someone who spends a lot on the cash shop. Basically, this is no different than paying a subscription fee in a regular MMO.
2. You earn points through normal play you can use on the cash shop. While it's a lot of grinding, it's possible for someone to unlock all the content in the game and a few extras here and here just by grinding out favor in game.
3. While the cash shop does have some imbalanced items, it's pretty tame compared to most nickel and dime F2P. You don't need this stuff to win. A normal group should be able to do everything in the game successfully without having to spend a fortune.
If you combine these facts, you'll see there is essentially no difference between someone who spends their entire fortune on the cash shop and someone who pays a subscription fee, uses those monthly points, and earns points in game. So the fear of LotRO becoming unplayable for subscribers is just unwarrented. While I'm not sure if you can earn turbine points through normal play, you can still subscribe and get points monthly that way and not have to worry about content unlocks.
Should we also complain about veteran reward programs like AoC? That's basically the same damn thing as subscribing to a one of these new optional F2P MMOs, except there is no F2P options.
Remember not all F2P is bad. While some sell gear or buffs that are needed to win, there are some games that have a cash shop that is purely cosmetic or functions as an expansion pack of sorts where you buy additional content. If you are complaining about F2P games, you really should complain about DLC too and any other microtransactions (like Blizzard's pets and mounts).
And there you have it...A whole new type of racism is born...Free2payism...
Really? OK...I'm not poor...Not by a longshot...My Girlfriend and I have a budget...Things are tight...Times are tough for most people...She would rather not Sub to a Game right now, but will Play LOTRO when it goes F2P...Is My Girl the ghetto type you speak of? How about her Son who will be playing the F2P on LOTRO as well?
Get a grip...I've come across a slew of bad attitudes in my 7 years of Sub based MMO Gaming...No Gaming community is perfect...All have their challenges...
In this current economy calling F2P Gamers "bottom feeders" is ridiculous...Evolve for goodness sake...
Fair enough, I understand your gaming philosophy. No insult intended but i wouldn't want to play with you, our views are just too different and thats okay. As long as you understand where I'm coming from. And thats why I don't want to play F2P, so I don't have to worry about bumping into players like you. No offense, I just take my gaming seriously.
And I'm guessing you have the time to do that. See, that's what it comes down to. Commodities. I have cash, but no time. You have time, but don't want to spend the cash. I don't see how that makes me less of a serious gamer then you. I understand though, there are player types I avoid as well. Hardcore PvPers for instance. Ultimately, we're both seeking the same thing, we just go about it differently.
If you are buying it, rather than winning it by playing, you're not a gamer at all.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Howso? I'm not buying an uber leet weapon that makes me better then you. I'm buying a cute pet, or an outfit, or access to some quests.
Your argument only works in a Pay to Win environment, which is not what I'm discussing at all.
lol wut? You are a less serious gamer because you spend less time playing the game. That's quite simple to grasp I think.
As someone is a less serious worker than you because he spends less time at work.
The person is buying the content to play it and therefore is a gamer. Your position makes you no more or less of a gamer than he is, so don't be so arrogant and contemptuous about the whole affair. Seriously.
http://www.themmoquest.com - MMO commentary from an overly angry brit. OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED!
Faulty logic, try again. I have less time to game, so I spend less time on games. As for your other analogy, maybe there are no hours available for the worker. Maybe he wants to work but has a disability. Its what you do while working that determines the type of worker you are. Same with gaming.
I thought you said you have no time to play, that's why you spend money instead. So you catch up with others (who have the time) by buying the cute pets?
Well, yeah. Because I don't believe in playing games where anyone can buy the "best gear". Again, I'm not discussing Pay to Win games. Fact is, I am going to be behind people who have more time to devote. I know this, and I'm ok with it. But why should they have all the cool mounts and pets and cosmetic gear?
That doesn't make you more serious about the game than he is. It simply means that you are both working towards experiencing the same end goals, but in different ways based on the boundaries that life places on you. His dedication to the game could well be more than your own, but it is manifested in a totally different way. That again makes him no less of a gamer than you.
http://www.themmoquest.com - MMO commentary from an overly angry brit. OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED!
You're mistaking me for one of those who say it's okay if it's just fluff or vanity items. I don't care what it is. It could just be a title. It doesn't matter.
If you bought it - you didn't earn it. There is no accomplishment. It's empty.
You are a consumer, not a gamer.
It's the difference between winning a trophy and buying one.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2