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The fear of F2P
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I think to say it's unwarranted is to say you haven't read the entire argument. There are plenty of reasons for people to warrant a fear of the F2P genre, which can be found within this thread, the largest of which including a reduction of overall quality and introductions of new and fascinating ways in which you can be charged for something that should already be included in the final product. The hybrid models aren't terrible, but if you think companies are going to continue offering players the ability to pay a flat fee when they discover how many different possibilities there are for ripping us off, you're mistaken. If we've learned anything from Cryptic or SOE, it's that MMO developers are greedy bottomliners, and if given the chance, they'll walk all over innovation and creativity to reach a profit.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
But you're just ignoring the developments in the micro-transaction model over recent months, which has largely removed what you are talking about. So you're entire argument is limited to Asian Imports, and even they are moving away from items that have a massive effect on game play.
And it's not the difference between winning a trophy and buying one. That's ridiculous.
http://www.themmoquest.com - MMO commentary from an overly angry brit. OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED!
Thankyou for helping to make my point; even if you didn't realize. The "P2P makes everyone equal" mentallity has no merit.
And if a player's only concern is PvP, the inequality in either format is just that much greater.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
You clearly didn't read the text which you just quoted. Read it again.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
When you break it all down, yes it absolutely is.
As was said in another post, this genre is becoming pay to not play (P2NP). I think it's utter BS, but that's just me.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
They may be greedy bottom liners but other studios aren't going to look at two of the most widely criticised MMO developers in the World and say, "let's do what they're doing!" Neither Cryptic or SOE are in strong positions when it comes to profit lines, so how can even justify using them to prove your point? And if you actually look at the way they're payment models are received by the wider audience, they're hardly what-I'd-call overly-successful, are they? STO is suffering from a lack of growth, as is Champions, and SOEs games... well... let's got go there.
And your understanding of the entire issue is indicative of the fact that you get so much wrong and make so many flawed assumptions.
http://www.themmoquest.com - MMO commentary from an overly angry brit. OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED!
This sentence covers pretty much everything I think about f2p. The game is about achieving something ingame by obeying to it's rules. It's about the difficulty the player goes through to reach the prize. The game is not the prize itself but the way toward it. Some want to buy the prize thus giving the finger to the game because they care more about having stuff to show then actually playing.
Beating a game, every game by normal gameplay felt a lot more satisfying than using trainers with god mode on.
But, I'm not cheating or turning god codes on. I do not, nor will ever play a Pay to Win game. But I see no issue with buying fluff items in a game. Does it affect you? Does it make so I'm more powerful in game then you? No. So why the illogical ambivalence?
What would be interesting if players could sell crafted items within the game for real money if they wanted, and the developer's take a cut out of it.
Why not? It works (sort of) for Second Life.
Really? Does it? Break it down for me because I fail to see what you are talking about :-)
http://www.themmoquest.com - MMO commentary from an overly angry brit. OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED!
If you think that fluff items are not a win factor than why do you want to buy it? I remember my friend spending weeks soloing this dungeon to get this really rare mount. Why did he do that? After all is just fluff. Because is something hard, an achievment. Few peoples had it. That mount didn't affect the pvp gameplay but it was a rare price, holding the same value as a great sword. Win is not only about pvp.
Fair enough. So make it so I can't buy all the fluff. Simple as that. I like fluff things, I think they look cool/different. Sort of like buying crystal dragons or expensive chess sets. I do it because I like it.
I could care less how unique it is, if I think it looks cool/neat, thats all that matter to me.
World of Warcraft offers fluff items for sale - the Celestial Mount to name but one - and yet still manages to have over 200 pets and mounts in game that you can't just buy. So your observation doesn't work because offering those sorts of items through a cash shop does not remove the idea that there will be items you can only get in game.
http://www.themmoquest.com - MMO commentary from an overly angry brit. OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED!
I think you're misunderstanding the situation if you think I'm using Cryptic or SOE as an example of what to avoid in RMT or cash shops. I'm not talking about their business models in particular, I'm using them as examples for what MMO developers will do if we give them the breadth, and that is screw the customer. If you don't agree, you and I are obviously going to debate the finite and detailed matters of this topic for eternity, because this is what the whole matter boils down to.
Furthermore, to say my understanding of the issues in indicative of flawed assumptions is to say that you think my previously mentioned examples were being used for their specific shop additions, which they weren't. If you haven't read the series of my other posts within this thread, go back and give them a once over. My fear, and others, of what F2P is doing to the genre is explained fairly thoroughly, and at least validates a proper argument beyond, "no, you're wrong".
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
No reason not to. I'd take crafting alot more seriuosly if they implemented it.
But, was this really the case with DDO? I'd say no, in fact the overall quality of the game improved because the developers had more money to invest into it and could release more content under the new model. I can't stand Cryptic and refuse to purchase another game from them, but they weren't using a F2P model, SoE, Cryptic, and now Blizzard were all using the item mall + sub fee + box fee + expansions fee business model. The F2P option is far better. I don't understand how you can make a comparison when Cryptic doesn't even have a F2P game as far as I'm aware.
The alternative for DDO would have been for them to stop supporting the game and eventually shut down the servers. While LOTRO isn't getting there yet, I don't see how additional profits from Turbine is going to lower the quality. Sure, they can make game mechanics that are designed for the nickel and dime approach, but they'll likely also release more content and far quicker as a result too. In the end a VIP sub, who has a constant stream of points coming in monthly and has most of the content unlocked already is going to benefit.
I dont think many folks are "afraid" of F2P (well, some might fear that the MMO-market is going south and that they soon wont have any games to play..? Maybe thats it).
For me personally: I really dislike shopping in a game (and I mean REALLY dislike it), and F2P are generally built around this "shopping," some of them more, some less. Of course P2P are also "shopping" in a way, but its much less in-your-face, and it affects the game design much less too, in my opinion.
Also a curious thing: I have looked at a few F2P-games in the past, their features, lore, gameplay and so on... and just got a /yawn reaction from it. Most of them just dont seem very interesting to me.
About the time/money thing: to me its just mind-boggling that no companies have a setup where you can choose between a pay-per-month OR a pay-per-hour subscription. The casuals who might only have 1 or 2 hours per week to play would probably be interested in a per-hour alternative.
Yeppers it does, and it isn't too complex man.
You win a trophy for winning or acomplishing something in a sport (game). In this case the trophy represents everything you do and achieve in that game. You can now purchase some (which will inevitably turn into lots more) of this stuff with your very own money.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
See that, that is brilliant. I was super excited when I saw EQ2 offer their 72 hour thing a month or two ago. I would have been all over that. But no, it has to be 72 consecutive hours. I don't have that kind of time. I might find 72 hours over the course of a month to play, but not in a row. Wife would kill me.
A mount and 2 pets can hardly be considered a cash shop game. F2p games dont have only 3 items there.
For wow the cash shop (if we can even call it that) is not the primary source of money but the game itself. Thus for blizz a better game = more money. For f2p the more people need cash shop = more money.
From a previous post:
"I think you're misunderstanding the situation if you think I'm using Cryptic or SOE as an example of what to avoid in RMT or cash shops. I'm not talking about their business models in particular, I'm using them as examples for what MMO developers will do if we give them the breadth, and that is screw the customer. If you don't agree, you and I are obviously going to debate the finite and detailed matters of this topic for eternity, because this is what the whole matter boils down to."
More specifically, I don't agree with some of what you're saying. You say that Cryptic and Blizzard aren't using an F2P model, and I agree for the most part, but if you're going to call DDO's model "hybrid", then I think it's safe to say any model using a subscription and an item mall should be considered "hybrid", as well, which doesn't make them entirely different. It is interesting what you mentioned, though, that DDO would have shut down without going F2P, and I saw a point made in another thread I'll refer back to, regarding F2P as a place for games to die. While I don't agree entirely, I can see why someone would say that, because any subscription game with the right quality of content wouldn't have been put in such a situation to begin with. That's a large reason why I continue to make a point of quality, because, frankly, if it takes going from a subscription model to F2P for your game to succeed, it obviously wasn't good enough to pay a standardized price for.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
All hes doing if he does pay to win is miss out on the story of the mmo. If there is no story or he cant be bothered with it, I dont see the problem in people wanting to buy the best gear if they just want to hit end game.
I always wondered why nobody uses this system too. It is clearly better than currently p2p or f2p.
but that's not all I'm doing. I'm playing the game, exploring the world, doing the story. And spending money on fluff. If all I cared about was endgame, I'd go back to WoW. Again, I don't believe in buying gear, or anything that gives an advantage.