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The fear of F2P
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I don't fear f2p, I HATE f2p because it is a scam. This hate is not just some irrational nonsence that I heard from second hand stereotypes. No I gained this opinion from actually sitting down and playing some of these cash shop dominated MMOs for three years.
I started with a f2p game called sGE which is the Southeast Asian Granada Espada. I asked how do I get better at playing this game and someone said "if you want to get better at sGE you need to get better at making IRL money to use the cash shop more." I immeadiately uninstalled.
Then I tried the American version of the same game which was p2p at the time which was cool because I really liked the gameplay. Shortly after paying my subscription they turned f2p and the whole game went to hell. It was constant cash shop this shop that, buy this buy that. I figured I am not going to let this discurage me again I will see how well I do if keep playing by just spending $15/mo in the cash shop. I learned how inadequate $15/mo can when when others are spending $100/mo or more. They had better equips than I did, leveled faster than me, and dominated the pvp part of the game. It is not OK to just pay a little you have to pay a lot to be viable. I then realized it was futile to fight it and moved on.
Next I tried Requiem the Bloodymare another suposedly f2p game. It was very pvp oriented game and of course the cash shop dominated it. The first couple levels were fun but then it got slower and slower and you have pay and more and more to recieve thinner and thinner content. Moving on now.
Finally I tried DDO because I heard it was "good." Well it wasn't good it was terrible. I uninstalled after three days because it felt like single player game with microtransactions. Another pointless game to uninstall.
Lesson learned now I am done with free to play games. Pay 2 play or bust.
I believe you. i just dont get why people would "fear" you for doing that (if you did)?
Umm, yeah but there is a HUGE difference between that awesome piece of "fluff" that is gotten through in-game means such as the dungeon crawling you mentioned, or questing, or what-have-you, and that awesome piece of "fluff" that is bought through the "marketplace"/c-store/Blizzard-store. What is this HUGE difference? The fact that they are almost never the same item. Games, and their developers, that offer stores like this seem to like to keep things seperate meaning that that "awesome rare fluff" that can only be obtained through in-game means, stays obtainable only through in-game means.
What I'm saying is that, most devs (the smart ones anyway) realize how much their community values such trophy fluff, and they don't screw with it. That item your friend spent weeks chasing by grinding through a dungeon will probably never show up as a purchasable item b/c most devs (again, the smart ones anyway) understand that they'd really piss people off by pulling such shadiness.
I haven't read all the pages of this thread, but personally, I think everyone is seriously over-reacting about the current trend of P2P games introducing these stores to their buisness model, and/or P2P games going F2P. Honestly, we are NOT talking about Eastern-style F2P here, the model that seems to be evolving before our eyes and which has been the topic of much debate lately, is a totally different animal. I would call it Western-F2P, and/or P2P+. The ones sticking w/ the more traditional P2P/monthly-sub model that add "marketplaces" are selling mostly "fluff" items, XP pots, and the like. While LoTRO, and DDO are blazing a new trail for the most part by simply changing the way people pay for the game, instead of a "firm" monthly sub, they are selling the game in smaller, cheaper chunks.
I don't know, I think a lot of people are just misinformed, and jumping to conclusions based on outdated views of how the MMO industry operates.
I dunno, and the whole "trophy" analogy is crap logic too. Its like saying I shouldn't be allowed to eat at a 5 Star restaurant just because you can't afford/don't want to eat there. If what I do doesn't affect you, what's the problem, right?
Regardless of what you call it, "hybrid" or "F2P with optional sub fee" it is entirely different from Cryptic or Blizzard's model. You don't have to pay a dime if you don't want to. Will you get the same benefits as a subscriber or frequent cash shop purchaser? Obviously not. In Cryptic games and WoW, you have to pay for a subscription fee to play the game (beyond the trial period).
LOTRO was doing fine. It was in no danger of dying. It had a healthy amount of subscribers. Turbine just realized that F2P will be more profitable (and it likely - actually I'd bet money on definitely - will). Sometimes it has nothing to do with the quality of the game. There are some really obscure titles out there, usually indie, that are critically acclaimed, but didn't do well in sales. There are still plenty of VIP members of DDO who pay a standardized price for the game too.
I'll try to break it down for you.
I play a game for 6 hours a day every day for a week and I achieve a title in game due to a goal I have reached as a result of my time spent in game partaking in whatever activity required, crafting, pvp, exploration, whatever (note, just a 'fluff' item).
You log onto the cash shop and buy the afore mentioned title.
Result we both have what we wanted, you however spent no time playing the game to obtain it. Conclusion, your title has no worth other than you had x amount of cash you no longer wanted, at the same time this also devalues my title. Meaning your choice of play has a direct impact not only on the game itself but other players choice of play.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
That's assuming the same fluff item is available both methods. That's rarely the case.
There's a third faction there...
Those who don't care who has an advantage because they're enjoying the game on their own terms, not in comparison to "how quickly someone else did something".
Not once have I ever felt someone had an "advantage" over me because they had more time to spend playing a game. That seems a tad vicarious and rather unhealthy way to think. Others' experience is no reflection on or of my own. I play my way. They play their way.
I disagree with the F2P Item Shop model on principle because, as has been stated... it takes away from the gameplay. It's no longer about questing or adventuring or battling or otherwise having to earn something... It's simply about pulling out the credit card to buy it. The "journey" to obtain something is just as important to me as obtaining the item itself. I don't care if it's something someone else considers "fluff". If it's content in the game, I should be able to obtain it by playing the game, not by pulling out my credit card.
For me, spending money on a game should begin and end with buying the game and paying my monthly sub. I buy the box or digital download once, and my credit card is automatically rebilled. Beyond that, give me a full, rich world to experience with interesting content, tough battles and suitable rewards for my actions... and get out of the way. I should not have to worry if I have enough credits in the online shop because, oops.. I ran out of healing pots or because, oops the time on my temporary inventory expansion ran out, or for any other reason that the given game developers have decided to nickel and dime me for.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I'm not so certain. DDO was on it's last legs largely because it marketed to an mmo market without being an mmo imo. So they make it a dlc payment model but the game lent itself to that. LotR does not, at all, it also was not about to die - as far as we know.
Turbine took a gamble, it would be naive to think that they simply looked at DDO's increase in revenue and felt that the same was achievable by following the same plan with LotR. They will have had their eyes open and know there is a chance this could backfire greatly in the medium/long term. We shall see come next summer.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Fear? I would like to get one good reason why I should bother with F2P games. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I can see these are the advantages of the two payment models (for players).
Advantages of F2P over P2P:
Free to start playing
Might be cheaper to play over time.
Advantages of P2P over F2P:
Players don't have to worry about financial decisions while playing the game.
It's in the developers' interest to keep improving, and building on the game to retain subscribers, unlike F2P games where there is more money in holding back content so that players will be willing to pay for anything new put into the game.
You are paying for a service, not virtual items where there is no relation between the cost of introducing the item into the game and the monetary value.
All MMOs rely on addiction to keep people playing, but in a P2P game all customers are worth exactly the same to the developer. If a player plays 4 hours a month and enjoys the game enough to keep subscribing, there is no reason to encourage him to start spending an unhealthy amount of time on the game so he'll spend more money.
Predictable expense for players, predictable income for developers. Makes planning ahead easier.
I could go on about the P2P advantages, but I'm quite biased, so there's not much point. All the advantages of P2P can be argued. What cannot be argued is that the only advantage of the F2P model is price. There's no denying that F2P can be cheaper. What I fail to understand is why it matters. $15/month is nothing. If anything it is probably too low seeing how much people are willing to spend on F2P games. I know some people are between jobs and struggling financially, and I can understand that children don't want the regular expense. Why would anyone with a steady income choose F2P over P2P, though? P2P games are equal to, or better than F2P games in every way except possibly value for money, but considering P2P games are also pretty damn close to free, I just don't see the point in the F2P model.
The mount I was talking about is in wow and ofc blizz would never make the mistake of putting it in the store. Why? Because cs is not what brings money to their pocket, it's the game that does, that rare mount for example that keeps players playing. But what about a game that the only source of outcome is the cash shop? They want you to use it. You really thing that a f2p game will have uninmportant stuff in their cs? Do you really think that they will not put that rare prize in there? The allure of a p2p is in the game, while in f2p is in the cash shop.
And why the hell peoples keep presenting here ddo and lotro as succesful examples? First of all lotro have yet to prove itself and ddo suck balls, like pretty hard. A single player game full of instances that nobody would play if it didn't went f2p. Hell I installed it too and played for 3 days. I guess I'm in their 1 million player database too.
The only point is to make more cashola.
We had it good for awhile. Then they tested the waters, people assumed the position, and now it's not going to be so good.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Because I have limited time to play, and financially, F2P, especially hybrid models like DDO offer me better incentives for time spent. If, any given month, I find that I have lots of time, I sub. If not, I pay for what I want. In the case of DDO, I might buy an adventure pack on months where I'm busier. I hate subbing playing for all of 20 hours one month, then unsubbing, then resubbing. Hybrid models like DDO offer the best of both worlds.
I used the analogy to simplify things, but the case is the items are nearly always the same only they hide it. You log into the shop to obtain a number of buffs or xp multipliers or armour or potions or as Turbine put it "special items, account services, and convenience items". At the end of the day you are still obtaining the same result at the cost of devaluing my game time (and spending your cash ofc).
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
I remember having a discussion with one of my employees a while back about how many hours he worked each week. It went something like this:
"You may think that working 60 hours a week illustrates your dedication to your role. You may also think that others see you as working above and beyond their expectations of you, but here's the catch: They may see a person who can't get their work done in 40 hours."
@Edli: Since you "real gamers" fancy yourselves as better than the rest of us, I'll leave it up to you to figure out what I'm telling you.
Ok, so you feel your fluff item is less valuable. But does that affect how you play the game in any other way? Am I suddenly more uber then you? Hardly. You have time to invest, I have money. Time is money after all.
^^ this.
rofl
You P2NP defenders are illarious. WSIMike just owned the OP right there at the beginning of the thread, but the debate is still going... what a joke. At least, its entertainning, in a weird way, to see some more owning of your twisted half logic arguements. You seem to like to be proven wrong. Its ok, to each his own. lol
Seriously, you guys should really stop playing game that requiered more time investemnet than most other games if your life style doesn't allow it. Like it has been said before, you aren't gamers you are consummers. Kown the difference & find something better to spend your hard earn cash on. Just a friendly advice.
Tell me one free to play game that's been free to play from release that's as polished as the general pay to play games.
My main point being, yes, pay to play games also have loads of shit kids playing. But the barrier of having pay to play so you need to use a credit card or buy a game card to play helps with loads of these shit kids that ruin the game, for sure.
For all free to play games I've played, my eyes starts to bleed after looking at the general chat for a few minutes, in general in the pay to play games I have played, not so much.
Go on all you want about being 14 and serious, you're a minority. Yes, there are quite a few mature younglings around that play MMOG's, but there is much more so, kids that are not.
The people and the friends that we have lost, and the dreams that have faded, never forget them~
Microtransactions arrived a while back, while you were sleeping through your 50 levels in WoW ...
Microtransactions are here to stay, whether you like it or not.
Whining about how much you think the F2P model sucks is like pissing into the wind, during a hurricane.
As a consumer you have absolutely ZERO chance of effecting change on this.
The future is only rosy from a publishers point of view.
SP/online MP games are just as vulnerable, not even consoles are immune anymore, there are a few publishers using it in thier products already.
Publishers have already realised they can make more $ from microtransactions than they can from fixed monthly subscription models, and publishers are only interested in how much $ they can squeeze from the gaming population.
Apparently you've never played Darkfall.
The effect it has is that I won't play it.
The time, money arguement is an awful one as it's false logic. The dicotomy of the arguement is that you are attempting to level the playing field within a game for all those who wish to play it.
Where does this end? Afterall it stands to reason that if we both have the same income but I have 2 kids I most likely have less disposable income and less spare time. Does this mean I can get extra points in the item mall for the number of children I have. Afterall it's unfair that you have that extra time and money, giving me more stuff when I log in because I have children or an ex-wife or a mortgage is no different than giving me stuff simply because I have more money.
The only difference is a fundamental one, you have money and the devs want it. They couldn't give 2 shits if we are now on a level playing field or not, they just see you as a dollar sign.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
This response was at me? Where did I say that we the real gamers are better? I said that if you spend less time than someone else playing than you are less serious about the game. Which is pretty obvious because you put real life and work above the game and the guy who does the opossite it's in no way better. He just takes the game much more seriously so much so that skips other things. This should be common sense. I didn't say anywhere that one is better than the other.
I agree with the people behind P2P games, everyone is saying the F2P model is catching on and all that but I have played alot of MMOs and my favorite by far are the P2P games. They are the most successful and EVERYTHING is earned, not bought. Some people say that you just buy fluff, but I know in some games like Perfect World and such that they will purposely give you shitty looking stuff, like a dumb mount, than have really cool stuff available for purpose but you cant earn it. I think when a game does that it is better to just pay the $15 a month than to play who makes more money than who. Plus finding rare gear and mounts is part of what makes games like WoW fun, I know when I used to play WoW if I found a purple item or a rare mount there was an awesome feeling that you cant get from buying stuff, plus you get to brag when you find the rarest of rare items, if you buy it what can you brag about?
Mystery Bounty
This response was at me? Where did I say that we the real gamers are better?
That's all you got out of my response?
/facepalm