I was looking forward to this game, and hyping it up...did I just read no pvp? PVP granted dosnt make a game, I throughly enjoyed SWG without having to pvp at all, even though I Was on a pvp server bloodfin, even so its a fantasay game. What fantasy games dont have pvp in them. Im sure theres some, but seems odd to me.
You seam to not understand why we want jumping. We don't want it for the battles. It would be kinda pointless with the system FFXIV will use. I'm fine without pvp too. The reason why I wanted it and repeating for the hundred time is because of exploration. It's an open world and should feel as such. You don't walk in a narrow corridor like in single player games. You go to whatever place you can see. Being stuck in a flat terrain limits the free feeling you are supposed to have when you explore.
~but we don't know just how open this game is, and if it follows the trademarks of FFXI and other SE games, the funneling effect is there for a reason, and is not meant to be bypassed. It's the very reason that AION keeps your ass on the ground for the entire game. If you had infinite flying you'd just skip all the bullshit.
They want you to experience that bullshit... though, that game should have had infinite flying and an arboreal approach to all zones from the start, much like how you say FFXIV should have prepared itself for jumping from the start. Fact is, I don't think they know how from lack of experience in both areas.
It takes a LOT of development time just to "figure it out" too. *cough* MO *cough*
@above poster: word is zero PvP at launch, and even FFXI barely had any as it was disguised as a competitive sport-like game (ballista, etc). The game as great PvE so I never even questioned it, but yes, they don't seem to have it and it's smart for a purely PvE game to take up that outlook.
Why? Balance.
They didn't have to give two shits about whether the dragoon was more OP than the summoner because they couldn't directly face off 1v1, and all you could see per-class was the group utility. Smart philosophy if you ask me.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Soz guys, sounds like a total dullsville to me. I'm not even considering this title.
W/e, in my opinion, what is PvP without jumping?
If both are missing, then there is no reason to miss one over the other. I can see people avoid this for the lack of PvP, maybe even the conjoined part of the lack of PvP and jumping, but the idea that jumping alone sells a game makes my testes shrivel.
You seam to not understand why we want jumping. We don't want it for the battles. It would be kinda pointless with the system FFXIV will use. I'm fine without pvp too. The reason why I wanted it and repeating for the hundred time is because of exploration. It's an open world and should feel as such. You don't walk in a narrow corridor like in single player games. You go to whatever place you can see. Being stuck in a flat terrain limits the free feeling you are supposed to have when you explore.
Yer right there, immersion breaking to the nth degree. Look I got this char who is gazillion level dragon serial killer who grinds princes of the nether pits for breakfast and ... and he can't jump over a 1ft fence - he has to walk the effing ef round it like a good boy. Sorry, not buying it. I can dig 2D graphics in 640x480 and feel immersed but I cannot buy this. It's the No1 reason why I simply couldn't play GW1, no matter how the game looked and felt awesome. It's just silly.
@above poster: word is zero PvP at launch, and even FFXI barely had any as it was disguised as a competitive sport-like game (ballista, etc). The game as great PvE so I never even questioned it, but yes, they don't seem to have it and it's smart for a purely PvE game to take up that outlook.
Why? Balance.
They didn't have to give two shits about whether the dragoon was more OP than the summoner because they couldn't directly face off 1v1, and all you could see per-class was the group utility. Smart philosophy if you ask me.
Well you can balance the game around PvP and then balance the mobs to characters, rather than other way around. In fact this seems more reasonable to me - balancing mobs to characters rather than the opposite. Just start with the PvP balance first and then adjust the PvE content accordingly.
/yawn
Laziness and Hybris on the devs part if you ask me. "We know we'll have a billion subscribers just because of the IP and nostalgia so we don't have to bother with anything new. They're in it for the story anyway." Yawn, not interested. I didn't play FF games before so I'm not under this spell and as a newcomer to the franchise I see everything presented so far as complete "meh".
If their financial model is viable only with old FF fans as their customer base then all is well and more power to them. It's nice to see a big company catering to the loyal niche crowd. However, if they count on new players joining in then they're in for a short, nasty ride.. Anywayz, good luck.
The main philosophy behind it also keeps flavor of the month classes being built up around PvP, and the constant hassle of fixing that (which is bound to do good for some and piss off those nerfed). People choose a PvE role based on what they enjoy doing, people choose a PvP role based on how easy it is to win with it.
~and btw, 1v1 balance is a myth. There is *no such thing* because of various circumstances that are out of the game's grasp. Like skilled vs idiot players, lag and other crap that just adds up to a single person's favor. If you saw a lineup of classes that were truly balanced you'd find they all have the same damage output vs mitigation. AoC is a fine example as the glass cannons have self-buffs that equal out to the armor of a mid-level tank. Under perfect circumstances, any two classes are basically kicking the same amount of ass because there is little to differenciate between them... besides the melee vs casting playstyle that is (which still favors casting).
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Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
You mean it's a luxury adding it now at the current situation of the game? If that's what you're saying than that's true. That would be like a pointless emote. We know that they can't add it now because they would had to recreate the entire world. What we're discussing though is why SE choose to go this way from the beginning.
For the same reasons that you can expect Bioware to stick to mechanics they treat as staples in their other games.
It's what they know.
In that case bioware shouldn't make an mmo , becuase they have not in the past.
GT all you use are are non arguments or logical fallacies. There is no agrument or logic here you just are saying over and over becuase X then Y, but there is no correlation between X and Y so you don't have an agrument.
Equally i can say becuase i like banana jumping is required; this agruemnt is not vaild as many of the arguments you have used in this thread and enough people have pointed this out.
You can keep doing this, feel free, but me and 3 other people will continmue to point it out and we will no longer be talking about FFXIV but instead how your post are illogical and mean nothing.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
You mean it's a luxury adding it now at the current situation of the game? If that's what you're saying than that's true. That would be like a pointless emote. We know that they can't add it now because they would had to recreate the entire world. What we're discussing though is why SE choose to go this way from the beginning.
For the same reasons that you can expect Bioware to stick to mechanics they treat as staples in their other games.
It's what they know.
In that case bioware shouldn't make an mmo , becuase they have not in the past.
GT all you use are are non arguments or logical fallacies. There is no agrument or logic here you just are saying over and over becuase X then Y, but there is no correlation between X and Y so you don't have an agrument.
Equally i can say becuase i like banana jumping is required, this agruemtn is vaild as every argument you have used in theis thread and enough people have pointed this out.
You can keep doing this feel free but me and 3 other people will continmue to point it out and we will no longer be talking about FFXIV but instead how your post are illogical and mean nothing.
Do I need to quote your idiot post that clearly states;
"If the answer to jump exploits is to remove jumping, then the answer to lag is to remove internet play"
You had a couple people call you on making stupid points, and now you want to bring up the "logical fallacies" spiel those people were using on *you* against *me*? Tactless, tasteless and tactless.
Anyone with half a brain can read back a few pages and see that you wear diapers.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
You mean it's a luxury adding it now at the current situation of the game? If that's what you're saying than that's true. That would be like a pointless emote. We know that they can't add it now because they would had to recreate the entire world. What we're discussing though is why SE choose to go this way from the beginning.
For the same reasons that you can expect Bioware to stick to mechanics they treat as staples in their other games.
It's what they know.
In that case bioware shouldn't make an mmo , becuase they have not in the past.
GT all you use are are non arguments or logical fallacies. There is no agrument or logic here you just are saying over and over becuase X then Y, but there is no correlation between X and Y so you don't have an agrument.
Equally i can say becuase i like banana jumping is required, this agruemtn is vaild as every argument you have used in theis thread and enough people have pointed this out.
You can keep doing this feel free but me and 3 other people will continmue to point it out and we will no longer be talking about FFXIV but instead how your post are illogical and mean nothing.
Do I need to quote your idiot post that clearly states;
"If the answer to jump exploits is to remove jumping, then the answer to lag is to remove internet play"
You had a couple people call you on making stupid points, and now you want to bring up the "logical fallacies" spiel those people were using on *you* against *me*? Tactless, tasteless and tactless.
Anyone with half a brain can read back a few pages and see that you wear diapers.
"Jumping can be exploited in some games, therefore it will be exploited in this one" is a logical fallacy and has been your argument since the get go.
In other words, if you're going to use the "logical fallacy" card on an internet forum full of personal opinions, you should probably reevaluate your own position first.
You mean it's a luxury adding it now at the current situation of the game? If that's what you're saying than that's true. That would be like a pointless emote. We know that they can't add it now because they would had to recreate the entire world. What we're discussing though is why SE choose to go this way from the beginning.
For the same reasons that you can expect Bioware to stick to mechanics they treat as staples in their other games.
It's what they know.
In that case bioware shouldn't make an mmo , becuase they have not in the past.
GT all you use are are non arguments or logical fallacies. There is no agrument or logic here you just are saying over and over becuase X then Y, but there is no correlation between X and Y so you don't have an agrument.
Equally i can say becuase i like banana jumping is required, this agruemtn is vaild as every argument you have used in theis thread and enough people have pointed this out.
You can keep doing this feel free but me and 3 other people will continmue to point it out and we will no longer be talking about FFXIV but instead how your post are illogical and mean nothing.
Do I need to quote your idiot post that clearly states;
"If the answer to jump exploits is to remove jumping, then the answer to lag is to remove internet play"
You had a couple people call you on making stupid points, and now you want to bring up the "logical fallacies" spiel those people were using on *you* against *me*? Tactless, tasteless and tactless.
Anyone with half a brain can read back a few pages and see that you wear diapers.
"Jumping can be exploited in some games, therefore it will be exploited in this one" is a logical fallacy and has been your argument since the get go.
In other words, if you're going to use the "logical fallacy" card on an internet forum full of personal opinions, you should probably reevaluate your own position first.
Still at it?
You will have to quote me to prove it, because every single post of mine states - quite clearly - that jumping isn't *necessary* because the game lacks *platforming*. I never, ever, ever said they should remove jumping from any game because of bugs, and instead that they should never *ADD* jumping to a game where it has no plausable use - and the only thing it can add to it... IS bugs.
You've done nothing but twist words to suit your argument this entire time, and I wonder if you need a diaper change as bad as Jet does.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
You mean it's a luxury adding it now at the current situation of the game? If that's what you're saying than that's true. That would be like a pointless emote. We know that they can't add it now because they would had to recreate the entire world. What we're discussing though is why SE choose to go this way from the beginning.
For the same reasons that you can expect Bioware to stick to mechanics they treat as staples in their other games.
It's what they know.
In that case bioware shouldn't make an mmo , becuase they have not in the past.
GT all you use are are non arguments or logical fallacies. There is no agrument or logic here you just are saying over and over becuase X then Y, but there is no correlation between X and Y so you don't have an agrument.
Equally i can say becuase i like banana jumping is required, this agruemtn is vaild as every argument you have used in theis thread and enough people have pointed this out.
You can keep doing this feel free but me and 3 other people will continmue to point it out and we will no longer be talking about FFXIV but instead how your post are illogical and mean nothing.
Do I need to quote your idiot post that clearly states;
"If the answer to jump exploits is to remove jumping, then the answer to lag is to remove internet play"
You had a couple people call you on making stupid points, and now you want to bring up the "logical fallacies" spiel those people were using on *you* against *me*? Tactless, tasteless and tactless.
Anyone with half a brain can read back a few pages and see that you wear diapers.
"Jumping can be exploited in some games, therefore it will be exploited in this one" is a logical fallacy and has been your argument since the get go.
In other words, if you're going to use the "logical fallacy" card on an internet forum full of personal opinions, you should probably reevaluate your own position first.
Still at it?
You will have to quote me to prove it, because every single post of mine states - quite clearly - that jumping isn't *necessary* because the game lacks *platforming*. I never, ever, ever said they should remove jumping from any game because of bugs, and instead that they should never *ADD* jumping to a game where it has no plausable use - and the only thing it can add to it... IS bugs.
You've done nothing but twist words to suit your argument this entire time, and I wonder if you need a diaper change as bad as Jet does.
I refer you to our earlier conversation where you were talking about bunny hopping and LoS exploits. I'm not going to copy and paste all of it but you're welcome to go back a few pages and read your own posts.
If you really want to prove me wrong, throw my *actual* words in my face and don't beat around the bush by telling me to find it myself. Telling someone "you do it" is a copout.
~and if this is really about the definition of "bunnyhopping" again, FFS, grow up.
I also gave you many variations on the fix of LoS issues as well, and the niggling features that come along with it. Nowhere did I say "they should just remove jumping to save time", I said "this is how they dealth with it, and it comes with it's own issues". You really don't have any basis for your argument here in the least bit, beyond the fact that you'll keep it going as long as your pride stands as is.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I'm tired of seeing this thread on the front page. There is NOOOOOOO jump. I thought that's the only answer we needed. Why no jump, the developers answered it!
Why do we keep ranting? I dont know. All I know is that I am TIREDDDD of this damn thread
If you really want to prove me wrong, throw my *actual* words in my face and don't beat around the bush by telling me to find it myself. Telling someone "you do it" is a copout.
~and if this is really about the definition of "bunnyhopping" again, FFS, grow up.
LOL You know what? whatevs. Go back to your own posts and read them again. I'm not going to spend any amount of time copy and pasting your baseless nonsense.
I don't have to because I know damn well what I've said this entire time, I've been running it in circles for christ's sake.
Is it my job to convince myself I didn't? No - that's what yours is.
~and my baseless nonsense seems to make perfect sense to people past their pubescence.
By people past their pubescence, you obviously mean people who like anything SE throws as them, right? Because the lack of the jump feature and your defense of that fact only makes sense to them.
I don't have to because I know damn well what I've said this entire time, I've been running it in circles for christ's sake.
Is it my job to convince myself I didn't? No - that's what yours is.
~and my baseless nonsense seems to make perfect sense to people past their pubescence.
By people past their pubescence, you obviously mean people who like anything SE throws as them, right? Because the lack of the jump feature and your defense of that fact only makes sense to them.
Don't pull the fanboi card, this has everything to do with common sense.
The game was NOT designed to encompass jumping from the start, it would serve no use now beyond breaking things it was not intended for. I love me a game with good platforming, but this is not it, and no amount of crying is going to fix that.
That boat has done sailed, boyo.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I don't have to because I know damn well what I've said this entire time, I've been running it in circles for christ's sake.
Is it my job to convince myself I didn't? No - that's what yours is.
~and my baseless nonsense seems to make perfect sense to people past their pubescence.
By people past their pubescence, you obviously mean people who like anything SE throws as them, right? Because the lack of the jump feature and your defense of that fact only makes sense to them.
Don't pull the fanboi card, this has everything to do with common sense.
"In *fact*, it's having that Z axis that allows 3rd party exploits to get you under geometry or hover too high to be hit. MO is proof enough of the ability to jump being exploited without even having to jump in order to do it."
I don't have to because I know damn well what I've said this entire time, I've been running it in circles for christ's sake.
Is it my job to convince myself I didn't? No - that's what yours is.
~and my baseless nonsense seems to make perfect sense to people past their pubescence.
By people past their pubescence, you obviously mean people who like anything SE throws as them, right? Because the lack of the jump feature and your defense of that fact only makes sense to them.
Don't pull the fanboi card, this has everything to do with common sense.
"In *fact*, it's having that Z axis that allows 3rd party exploits to get you under geometry or hover too high to be hit. MO is proof enough of the ability to jump being exploited without even having to jump in order to do it."
Yep, proof that it's not just the jumping itself, but the route that allows it to happen that causes bugs.
Why don't you post the rest of it that says "I'm not saying remove jumping from MO, I'm saying they need all these checks serverside". I should know, because I wrote it, and you decided to avoid posting it when you quoted me.
HA
Should I bring up how you said MO is a "poor example" and how you are now using it as one?
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I don't have to because I know damn well what I've said this entire time, I've been running it in circles for christ's sake.
Is it my job to convince myself I didn't? No - that's what yours is.
~and my baseless nonsense seems to make perfect sense to people past their pubescence.
By people past their pubescence, you obviously mean people who like anything SE throws as them, right? Because the lack of the jump feature and your defense of that fact only makes sense to them.
Don't pull the fanboi card, this has everything to do with common sense.
"In *fact*, it's having that Z axis that allows 3rd party exploits to get you under geometry or hover too high to be hit. MO is proof enough of the ability to jump being exploited without even having to jump in order to do it."
Yep, proof that it's not just the jumping itself, but the route that allows it to happen that causes bugs.
Why don't you post the rest of it that says "I'm not saying remove jumping from MO, I'm saying they need all these checks serverside". I should know, because I wrote it, and you decided to avoid posting it when you quoted me.
HA
You wanted an example of your claim that if jumping can be exploited in other game, it can be exploited in this one? There you go. The rest of your nonsense doesn't matter.
Final Fantasy has gone down a steep downhill slope. That last good Final Fantasy was #10. The last one that actually had the classic fanfare music after the battle that was a trademark for the game.
I don't have to because I know damn well what I've said this entire time, I've been running it in circles for christ's sake.
Is it my job to convince myself I didn't? No - that's what yours is.
~and my baseless nonsense seems to make perfect sense to people past their pubescence.
By people past their pubescence, you obviously mean people who like anything SE throws as them, right? Because the lack of the jump feature and your defense of that fact only makes sense to them.
Don't pull the fanboi card, this has everything to do with common sense.
"In *fact*, it's having that Z axis that allows 3rd party exploits to get you under geometry or hover too high to be hit. MO is proof enough of the ability to jump being exploited without even having to jump in order to do it."
Yep, proof that it's not just the jumping itself, but the route that allows it to happen that causes bugs.
Why don't you post the rest of it that says "I'm not saying remove jumping from MO, I'm saying they need all these checks serverside". I should know, because I wrote it, and you decided to avoid posting it when you quoted me.
HA
You wanted an example of your claim that if jumping can be exploited in other game, it can be exploited in this one? There you go. The rest of your nonsense doesn't matter.
Yet, again, the part of the post you omitted says clearly "MO is an isolated incedent because SE's IT people are not as amatuer". It was a point to show you the possibilities of what can be done with it, and that far more simpler routes like standing on high geometry to avoid LoS is an easy way to do things like this.
You know, butchering another person's words works better when they don't remember it, nor have access to it just a few pages back there. It's one of the only few green text ones I made, and already I've shown you leaving out 2 vital parts of it in order to fuel your BS cause.
Wanna go for a third? I think that makes it a turkey.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I don't have to because I know damn well what I've said this entire time, I've been running it in circles for christ's sake.
Is it my job to convince myself I didn't? No - that's what yours is.
~and my baseless nonsense seems to make perfect sense to people past their pubescence.
By people past their pubescence, you obviously mean people who like anything SE throws as them, right? Because the lack of the jump feature and your defense of that fact only makes sense to them.
Don't pull the fanboi card, this has everything to do with common sense.
"In *fact*, it's having that Z axis that allows 3rd party exploits to get you under geometry or hover too high to be hit. MO is proof enough of the ability to jump being exploited without even having to jump in order to do it."
Yep, proof that it's not just the jumping itself, but the route that allows it to happen that causes bugs.
Why don't you post the rest of it that says "I'm not saying remove jumping from MO, I'm saying they need all these checks serverside". I should know, because I wrote it, and you decided to avoid posting it when you quoted me.
HA
You wanted an example of your claim that if jumping can be exploited in other game, it can be exploited in this one? There you go. The rest of your nonsense doesn't matter.
Yet, again, the part of the post you omitted says clearly "MO is an isolated incedent because SE's IT people are not as amatuer". It was a point to show you the possibilities of what can be done with it, and that far more simpler routes like standing on high geometry to avoid LoS is an easy way to do things like this.
You know, butchering another person's words works better when they don't remember it, nor have access to it just a few pages back there. It's one of the only few green text ones I made, and already I've shown you leaving out 2 vital parts of it in order to fuel your BS cause.
You've actually said that in a later post. Not the one I quoted.
How about this little gem:
"Jumping = exploitive, and uneccesary without true platforming to consider (as well as a world built to keep that in mind and have little abstract geometry along the zone edges, if not just invisible walls)"
I don't have to because I know damn well what I've said this entire time, I've been running it in circles for christ's sake.
Is it my job to convince myself I didn't? No - that's what yours is.
~and my baseless nonsense seems to make perfect sense to people past their pubescence.
By people past their pubescence, you obviously mean people who like anything SE throws as them, right? Because the lack of the jump feature and your defense of that fact only makes sense to them.
Don't pull the fanboi card, this has everything to do with common sense.
"In *fact*, it's having that Z axis that allows 3rd party exploits to get you under geometry or hover too high to be hit. MO is proof enough of the ability to jump being exploited without even having to jump in order to do it."
Yep, proof that it's not just the jumping itself, but the route that allows it to happen that causes bugs.
Why don't you post the rest of it that says "I'm not saying remove jumping from MO, I'm saying they need all these checks serverside". I should know, because I wrote it, and you decided to avoid posting it when you quoted me.
HA
You wanted an example of your claim that if jumping can be exploited in other game, it can be exploited in this one? There you go. The rest of your nonsense doesn't matter.
Yet, again, the part of the post you omitted says clearly "MO is an isolated incedent because SE's IT people are not as amatuer". It was a point to show you the possibilities of what can be done with it, and that far more simpler routes like standing on high geometry to avoid LoS is an easy way to do things like this.
You know, butchering another person's words works better when they don't remember it, nor have access to it just a few pages back there. It's one of the only few green text ones I made, and already I've shown you leaving out 2 vital parts of it in order to fuel your BS cause.
You've actually said that in a later post. Not the one I quoted.
How about this little gem:
"Jumping = exploitive, and uneccesary without true platforming to consider (as well as a world built to keep that in mind and have little abstract geometry along the zone edges, if not just invisible walls)"
Or maybe you didn't say that either?
Yep, and it coincides with my point that the game doesn't need it without platforming and proper zones to encompass it.
Are you purposely trying to make me look better?
Maybe you're forgetting what side of the argument you're on.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I don't have to because I know damn well what I've said this entire time, I've been running it in circles for christ's sake.
Is it my job to convince myself I didn't? No - that's what yours is.
~and my baseless nonsense seems to make perfect sense to people past their pubescence.
By people past their pubescence, you obviously mean people who like anything SE throws as them, right? Because the lack of the jump feature and your defense of that fact only makes sense to them.
Don't pull the fanboi card, this has everything to do with common sense.
"In *fact*, it's having that Z axis that allows 3rd party exploits to get you under geometry or hover too high to be hit. MO is proof enough of the ability to jump being exploited without even having to jump in order to do it."
Yep, proof that it's not just the jumping itself, but the route that allows it to happen that causes bugs.
Why don't you post the rest of it that says "I'm not saying remove jumping from MO, I'm saying they need all these checks serverside". I should know, because I wrote it, and you decided to avoid posting it when you quoted me.
HA
You wanted an example of your claim that if jumping can be exploited in other game, it can be exploited in this one? There you go. The rest of your nonsense doesn't matter.
Yet, again, the part of the post you omitted says clearly "MO is an isolated incedent because SE's IT people are not as amatuer". It was a point to show you the possibilities of what can be done with it, and that far more simpler routes like standing on high geometry to avoid LoS is an easy way to do things like this.
You know, butchering another person's words works better when they don't remember it, nor have access to it just a few pages back there. It's one of the only few green text ones I made, and already I've shown you leaving out 2 vital parts of it in order to fuel your BS cause.
You've actually said that in a later post. Not the one I quoted.
How about this little gem:
"Jumping = exploitive, and uneccesary without true platforming to consider (as well as a world built to keep that in mind and have little abstract geometry along the zone edges, if not just invisible walls)"
Or maybe you didn't say that either?
Yep, and it coincides with my point that the game doesn't need it without platforming and proper zones to encompass it.
Are you purposely trying to make me look better?
Maybe you're forgetting what side of the argument you're on.
Jumping - exploitive... In other words "Jumping can be exploited in some games, therefore it will be exploited in this one."
Comments
I was looking forward to this game, and hyping it up...did I just read no pvp? PVP granted dosnt make a game, I throughly enjoyed SWG without having to pvp at all, even though I Was on a pvp server bloodfin, even so its a fantasay game. What fantasy games dont have pvp in them. Im sure theres some, but seems odd to me.
~but we don't know just how open this game is, and if it follows the trademarks of FFXI and other SE games, the funneling effect is there for a reason, and is not meant to be bypassed. It's the very reason that AION keeps your ass on the ground for the entire game. If you had infinite flying you'd just skip all the bullshit.
They want you to experience that bullshit... though, that game should have had infinite flying and an arboreal approach to all zones from the start, much like how you say FFXIV should have prepared itself for jumping from the start. Fact is, I don't think they know how from lack of experience in both areas.
It takes a LOT of development time just to "figure it out" too. *cough* MO *cough*
@above poster: word is zero PvP at launch, and even FFXI barely had any as it was disguised as a competitive sport-like game (ballista, etc). The game as great PvE so I never even questioned it, but yes, they don't seem to have it and it's smart for a purely PvE game to take up that outlook.
Why? Balance.
They didn't have to give two shits about whether the dragoon was more OP than the summoner because they couldn't directly face off 1v1, and all you could see per-class was the group utility. Smart philosophy if you ask me.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
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Yer right there, immersion breaking to the nth degree. Look I got this char who is gazillion level dragon serial killer who grinds princes of the nether pits for breakfast and ... and he can't jump over a 1ft fence - he has to walk the effing ef round it like a good boy. Sorry, not buying it. I can dig 2D graphics in 640x480 and feel immersed but I cannot buy this. It's the No1 reason why I simply couldn't play GW1, no matter how the game looked and felt awesome. It's just silly.
Well you can balance the game around PvP and then balance the mobs to characters, rather than other way around. In fact this seems more reasonable to me - balancing mobs to characters rather than the opposite. Just start with the PvP balance first and then adjust the PvE content accordingly.
/yawn
Laziness and Hybris on the devs part if you ask me. "We know we'll have a billion subscribers just because of the IP and nostalgia so we don't have to bother with anything new. They're in it for the story anyway." Yawn, not interested. I didn't play FF games before so I'm not under this spell and as a newcomer to the franchise I see everything presented so far as complete "meh".
If their financial model is viable only with old FF fans as their customer base then all is well and more power to them. It's nice to see a big company catering to the loyal niche crowd. However, if they count on new players joining in then they're in for a short, nasty ride.. Anywayz, good luck.
The main philosophy behind it also keeps flavor of the month classes being built up around PvP, and the constant hassle of fixing that (which is bound to do good for some and piss off those nerfed). People choose a PvE role based on what they enjoy doing, people choose a PvP role based on how easy it is to win with it.
~and btw, 1v1 balance is a myth. There is *no such thing* because of various circumstances that are out of the game's grasp. Like skilled vs idiot players, lag and other crap that just adds up to a single person's favor. If you saw a lineup of classes that were truly balanced you'd find they all have the same damage output vs mitigation. AoC is a fine example as the glass cannons have self-buffs that equal out to the armor of a mid-level tank. Under perfect circumstances, any two classes are basically kicking the same amount of ass because there is little to differenciate between them... besides the melee vs casting playstyle that is (which still favors casting).
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
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In that case bioware shouldn't make an mmo , becuase they have not in the past.
GT all you use are are non arguments or logical fallacies. There is no agrument or logic here you just are saying over and over becuase X then Y, but there is no correlation between X and Y so you don't have an agrument.
Equally i can say becuase i like banana jumping is required; this agruemnt is not vaild as many of the arguments you have used in this thread and enough people have pointed this out.
You can keep doing this, feel free, but me and 3 other people will continmue to point it out and we will no longer be talking about FFXIV but instead how your post are illogical and mean nothing.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Do I need to quote your idiot post that clearly states;
"If the answer to jump exploits is to remove jumping, then the answer to lag is to remove internet play"
You had a couple people call you on making stupid points, and now you want to bring up the "logical fallacies" spiel those people were using on *you* against *me*? Tactless, tasteless and tactless.
Anyone with half a brain can read back a few pages and see that you wear diapers.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
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"Jumping can be exploited in some games, therefore it will be exploited in this one" is a logical fallacy and has been your argument since the get go.
In other words, if you're going to use the "logical fallacy" card on an internet forum full of personal opinions, you should probably reevaluate your own position first.
Still at it?
You will have to quote me to prove it, because every single post of mine states - quite clearly - that jumping isn't *necessary* because the game lacks *platforming*. I never, ever, ever said they should remove jumping from any game because of bugs, and instead that they should never *ADD* jumping to a game where it has no plausable use - and the only thing it can add to it... IS bugs.
You've done nothing but twist words to suit your argument this entire time, and I wonder if you need a diaper change as bad as Jet does.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
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I refer you to our earlier conversation where you were talking about bunny hopping and LoS exploits. I'm not going to copy and paste all of it but you're welcome to go back a few pages and read your own posts.
If you really want to prove me wrong, throw my *actual* words in my face and don't beat around the bush by telling me to find it myself. Telling someone "you do it" is a copout.
~and if this is really about the definition of "bunnyhopping" again, FFS, grow up.
I also gave you many variations on the fix of LoS issues as well, and the niggling features that come along with it. Nowhere did I say "they should just remove jumping to save time", I said "this is how they dealth with it, and it comes with it's own issues". You really don't have any basis for your argument here in the least bit, beyond the fact that you'll keep it going as long as your pride stands as is.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
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I'm tired of seeing this thread on the front page. There is NOOOOOOO jump. I thought that's the only answer we needed. Why no jump, the developers answered it!
Why do we keep ranting? I dont know. All I know is that I am TIREDDDD of this damn thread
Pepsi1028
PEPSI!!!!!
Get out of your box already...
LOL You know what? whatevs. Go back to your own posts and read them again. I'm not going to spend any amount of time copy and pasting your baseless nonsense.
I don't have to because I know damn well what I've said this entire time, I've been running it in circles for christ's sake.
Is it my job to convince myself I didn't? No - that's what yours is.
~and my baseless nonsense seems to make perfect sense to people past their pubescence.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
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Quit circling your thoughts then. They obviously don't want their mind changed.
/endthread
Pepsi1028
PEPSI!!!!!
Get out of your box already...
By people past their pubescence, you obviously mean people who like anything SE throws as them, right? Because the lack of the jump feature and your defense of that fact only makes sense to them.
Don't pull the fanboi card, this has everything to do with common sense.
The game was NOT designed to encompass jumping from the start, it would serve no use now beyond breaking things it was not intended for. I love me a game with good platforming, but this is not it, and no amount of crying is going to fix that.
That boat has done sailed, boyo.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
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"In *fact*, it's having that Z axis that allows 3rd party exploits to get you under geometry or hover too high to be hit. MO is proof enough of the ability to jump being exploited without even having to jump in order to do it."
Yep, proof that it's not just the jumping itself, but the route that allows it to happen that causes bugs.
Why don't you post the rest of it that says "I'm not saying remove jumping from MO, I'm saying they need all these checks serverside". I should know, because I wrote it, and you decided to avoid posting it when you quoted me.
HA
Should I bring up how you said MO is a "poor example" and how you are now using it as one?
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
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You wanted an example of your claim that if jumping can be exploited in other game, it can be exploited in this one? There you go. The rest of your nonsense doesn't matter.
Final Fantasy has gone down a steep downhill slope. That last good Final Fantasy was #10. The last one that actually had the classic fanfare music after the battle that was a trademark for the game.
Yet, again, the part of the post you omitted says clearly "MO is an isolated incedent because SE's IT people are not as amatuer". It was a point to show you the possibilities of what can be done with it, and that far more simpler routes like standing on high geometry to avoid LoS is an easy way to do things like this.
You know, butchering another person's words works better when they don't remember it, nor have access to it just a few pages back there. It's one of the only few green text ones I made, and already I've shown you leaving out 2 vital parts of it in order to fuel your BS cause.
Wanna go for a third? I think that makes it a turkey.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
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You've actually said that in a later post. Not the one I quoted.
How about this little gem:
"Jumping = exploitive, and uneccesary without true platforming to consider (as well as a world built to keep that in mind and have little abstract geometry along the zone edges, if not just invisible walls)"
Or maybe you didn't say that either?
Yep, and it coincides with my point that the game doesn't need it without platforming and proper zones to encompass it.
Are you purposely trying to make me look better?
Maybe you're forgetting what side of the argument you're on.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
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Jumping - exploitive... In other words "Jumping can be exploited in some games, therefore it will be exploited in this one."