I don't have to because I know damn well what I've said this entire time, I've been running it in circles for christ's sake.
Is it my job to convince myself I didn't? No - that's what yours is.
~and my baseless nonsense seems to make perfect sense to people past their pubescence.
By people past their pubescence, you obviously mean people who like anything SE throws as them, right? Because the lack of the jump feature and your defense of that fact only makes sense to them.
Don't pull the fanboi card, this has everything to do with common sense.
"In *fact*, it's having that Z axis that allows 3rd party exploits to get you under geometry or hover too high to be hit. MO is proof enough of the ability to jump being exploited without even having to jump in order to do it."
Yep, proof that it's not just the jumping itself, but the route that allows it to happen that causes bugs.
Why don't you post the rest of it that says "I'm not saying remove jumping from MO, I'm saying they need all these checks serverside". I should know, because I wrote it, and you decided to avoid posting it when you quoted me.
HA
You wanted an example of your claim that if jumping can be exploited in other game, it can be exploited in this one? There you go. The rest of your nonsense doesn't matter.
Yet, again, the part of the post you omitted says clearly "MO is an isolated incedent because SE's IT people are not as amatuer". It was a point to show you the possibilities of what can be done with it, and that far more simpler routes like standing on high geometry to avoid LoS is an easy way to do things like this.
You know, butchering another person's words works better when they don't remember it, nor have access to it just a few pages back there. It's one of the only few green text ones I made, and already I've shown you leaving out 2 vital parts of it in order to fuel your BS cause.
You've actually said that in a later post. Not the one I quoted.
How about this little gem:
"Jumping = exploitive, and uneccesary without true platforming to consider (as well as a world built to keep that in mind and have little abstract geometry along the zone edges, if not just invisible walls)"
Or maybe you didn't say that either?
Yep, and it coincides with my point that the game doesn't need it without platforming and proper zones to encompass it.
Are you purposely trying to make me look better?
Maybe you're forgetting what side of the argument you're on.
Jumping - exploitive... In other words "Jumping can be exploited in some games, therefore it will be exploited in this one."
You said that as a 'logical fallacy", as the others called it, not me.
I said that the majority reason people DO want it is to see what kind of mess they can get into, and that's a fact, jack.
Only you and Jet have said anything closely related to a red herring such as that.
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I've played other games without jumping (Guild Wars, Regnum Online, probably a few others I can't remember.) At first it is a tad annoying when you go to jump over a rock and realize you can't. However, you soon forget about jumping over the rock and realize you can just walk over the small ones. The huge ones you have to walk around just like in real life.
However, I do have one gripe here. That is with terrain bugs. Most games with or without jumping seem to have tiny glitches somewhere. Your foot gets stuck on a stair or a small rock. In a game with jumping you just hit your spacebar and continue on your merry way. In a game without jumping you wonder why this tiny rock is different from all the others and has stopped you dead in your tracks. Now you have to sidestep, back up, change directions...something. No game is ever 100% free of these little bugs. The worst if you get stuck on some stairs.
I said that the majority reason people DO want it is to see what kind of mess they can get into, and that's a fact, jack.
That is absolutely not true and it's a real shame that you have such a low opinion of people.
In actuality, the majority of gamers do not use exploits and look down on those who do.
False, everyone seeks that kind of advantage, especially when there is no chance of winning on your chutspah alone.
See, this is what I'm saying. You honestly believe that most people will cheat just to get ahead in a video game. I think it's about time to wrap this up as it's obvious that there are some other issues at play here.
I said that the majority reason people DO want it is to see what kind of mess they can get into, and that's a fact, jack.
That is absolutely not true and it's a real shame that you have such a low opinion of people.
In actuality, the majority of gamers do not use exploits and look down on those who do.
False, everyone seeks that kind of advantage, especially when there is no chance of winning on your chutspah alone.
See, this is what I'm saying. You honestly believe that most people will cheat just to get ahead in a video game. I think it's about time to wrap this up as it's obvious that there are some other issues at play here.
Yep, I have played these games for about 10 years after all. Everyone succumbs to it at some point, and I've seen the very people getting griefed in AoC's Noble District climb up to unreachable places to ranger down the very jerk that got them first... as well as anyone else that happens to pass by. A player figures he already went that far, what's a little more?
This crap is not honorbound because it's an effin game, people play to win, and people like to give out the taste of another's own medicine by exploiting in turn as well. There is also a lot of people who consider anything that is possible without hacking the client as non-exploit.
"well the devs left it in so they are basically saying it's ok to use"
This is not just a history lesson, it's one on human nature!
A game developer would have to be retarded not to consider the nature of their own players as the biggest issue in developing a game.
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I said that the majority reason people DO want it is to see what kind of mess they can get into, and that's a fact, jack.
That is absolutely not true and it's a real shame that you have such a low opinion of people.
In actuality, the majority of gamers do not use exploits and look down on those who do.
False, everyone seeks that kind of advantage, especially when there is no chance of winning on your chutspah alone.
See, this is what I'm saying. You honestly believe that most people will cheat just to get ahead in a video game. I think it's about time to wrap this up as it's obvious that there are some other issues at play here.
Yep, I have played these games for about 10 years after all. Everyone succumbs to it at some point, and I've seen the very people getting griefed in AoC's Noble District climb up to unreachable places to ranger down the very jerk that got them first... as well as anyone else that happens to pass by. A player figures he already went that far, what's a little more?
This crap is not honorbound because it's an effin game, people play to win, and people like to give out the taste of another's own medicine by exploiting in turn as well. There is also a lot of people who consider anything that is possible without hacking the client as non-exploit.
"well the devs left it in so they are basically saying it's ok to use"
This is not just a history lesson, it's one on human nature!
It is still a small number of people who do this, not the majority like you claim. I've been playing MMOs for about 10 years as well and if it's one thing I learned is that most people who play them are relatively honest. There are a few bad apples but you can't get away from that. The simple fact that most AAA MMOs have a tendency to ban exploiters helps keep the majority of the playerbase honest. Not to mention the simple fact that developers fix most harmful exploits ASAP.
Well I attest to at least half of all players being prone to this kind of behavior, given the right spark. The other half is likely to respond by quitting; some because of the principles behind it, the others because they can't figure out how they are doing it.
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Well I attest to at least half of all players being prone to this kind of behavior, given the right spark.
Speaking of logical fallacies, that right there has to be a fallacy of some sort.
Nope, just personal experience where one out of two people take advantage of an exploit for any reason; counter-grief, revenge, showing off, because they can, etc...
Hell, it's the kind of thing that deserves a poll if you ask me.
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Well I attest to at least half of all players being prone to this kind of behavior, given the right spark.
Speaking of logical fallacies, that right there has to be a fallacy of some sort.
Nope, just personal experience where one out of two people take advantage of an exploit for any reason; counter-grief, revenge, showing off, because they can, etc...
You must've had some pretty bad gaming experiences. One would have to ask, if almost everyone you meet is a cheater and an exploiter, why continue playing online games?
Well I attest to at least half of all players being prone to this kind of behavior, given the right spark.
Speaking of logical fallacies, that right there has to be a fallacy of some sort.
Nope, just personal experience where one out of two people take advantage of an exploit for any reason; counter-grief, revenge, showing off, because they can, etc...
You must've had some pretty bad gaming experiences. One would have to ask, if almost everyone you meet is a cheater and an exploiter, why continue playing online games?
Because you either deal with it, or ragequit, and we all know how many people ragequit games for *any* reason.
Plus I tend to roll in PvP servers, and it just comes with the territory. You get used to seeing it or you go home crying.
It's not isolated to PvP games either, as any unintended easy route to clear PvE or progress in levels is going to be found out and abused.
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Well I attest to at least half of all players being prone to this kind of behavior, given the right spark.
Speaking of logical fallacies, that right there has to be a fallacy of some sort.
Nope, just personal experience where one out of two people take advantage of an exploit for any reason; counter-grief, revenge, showing off, because they can, etc...
You must've had some pretty bad gaming experiences. One would have to ask, if almost everyone you meet is a cheater and an exploiter, why continue playing online games?
Because you either deal with it, or ragequit, and we all know how many people ragequit games for *any* reason.
Plus I tend to roll in PvP servers, and it just comes with the territory. You get used to seeing it or you go home crying.
It's not isolated to PvP games either, as any unintended easy route to clear PvE or progress in levels is going to be found out and abused.
Just goes to show you that two people can have completely opposite experiences in similar situations. I play mostly on PvP servers as well, as while I did see a few exploiters here and there, they were by no means as numerous as you claim.
Well I attest to at least half of all players being prone to this kind of behavior, given the right spark.
Speaking of logical fallacies, that right there has to be a fallacy of some sort.
Nope, just personal experience where one out of two people take advantage of an exploit for any reason; counter-grief, revenge, showing off, because they can, etc...
You must've had some pretty bad gaming experiences. One would have to ask, if almost everyone you meet is a cheater and an exploiter, why continue playing online games?
Because you either deal with it, or ragequit, and we all know how many people ragequit games for *any* reason.
Plus I tend to roll in PvP servers, and it just comes with the territory. You get used to seeing it or you go home crying.
It's not isolated to PvP games either, as any unintended easy route to clear PvE or progress in levels is going to be found out and abused.
Just goes to show you that two people can have completely opposite experiences in similar situations. I play mostly on PvP servers as well, as while I did see a few exploiters here and there, they were by no means as numerous as you claim.
Mmm Hmm, you do realise that things such as AoC's PvP point farming is considered an exploit and a great deal of guilds lined up like fodder in order to feed each other points right?
It's not actually hurting anyone, so people are more inclined to do it, but it's an exploit nonetheless.
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Well I attest to at least half of all players being prone to this kind of behavior, given the right spark.
Speaking of logical fallacies, that right there has to be a fallacy of some sort.
Nope, just personal experience where one out of two people take advantage of an exploit for any reason; counter-grief, revenge, showing off, because they can, etc...
You must've had some pretty bad gaming experiences. One would have to ask, if almost everyone you meet is a cheater and an exploiter, why continue playing online games?
Because you either deal with it, or ragequit, and we all know how many people ragequit games for *any* reason.
Plus I tend to roll in PvP servers, and it just comes with the territory. You get used to seeing it or you go home crying.
It's not isolated to PvP games either, as any unintended easy route to clear PvE or progress in levels is going to be found out and abused.
Just goes to show you that two people can have completely opposite experiences in similar situations. I play mostly on PvP servers as well, as while I did see a few exploiters here and there, they were by no means as numerous as you claim.
Mmm Hmm, you do realise that things such as AoC's PvP point farming is considered an exploit and a great deal of guilds lined up like fodder in order to feed each other points right?
It's not actually hurting anyone, so people are more inclined to do it, but it's an exploit nonetheless.
Well I attest to at least half of all players being prone to this kind of behavior, given the right spark.
Speaking of logical fallacies, that right there has to be a fallacy of some sort.
Nope, just personal experience where one out of two people take advantage of an exploit for any reason; counter-grief, revenge, showing off, because they can, etc...
You must've had some pretty bad gaming experiences. One would have to ask, if almost everyone you meet is a cheater and an exploiter, why continue playing online games?
Because you either deal with it, or ragequit, and we all know how many people ragequit games for *any* reason.
Plus I tend to roll in PvP servers, and it just comes with the territory. You get used to seeing it or you go home crying.
It's not isolated to PvP games either, as any unintended easy route to clear PvE or progress in levels is going to be found out and abused.
Just goes to show you that two people can have completely opposite experiences in similar situations. I play mostly on PvP servers as well, as while I did see a few exploiters here and there, they were by no means as numerous as you claim.
Mmm Hmm, you do realise that things such as AoC's PvP point farming is considered an exploit and a great deal of guilds lined up like fodder in order to feed each other points right?
It's not actually hurting anyone, so people are more inclined to do it, but it's an exploit nonetheless.
So Funcom should just get rid of open PvP then.
What is up with you and all these wack-ass answers for everything?
NO. The problem would remain even if they could duel each other for the points, or meet in the border kingdoms for it in some remote corner. There would have to be a timer that remembers what guild they were in for the last 24-72 hours and not grant points to any enemy who was in it at any point during that timeframe, or still in it during the kill.
That alone doesn't stop unguilded alts and complete strangers from doing it. I think their end answer was that you could only get 5 kill counts per player, but you could still cycle through everyone in your guild for a massive haul daily (as long as they unguilded momentarily). The only real fix is to add so much hassle to the process that nobody would bother, and compared to how hard it can be to just naturally win in regular PvP - that outlook is not so good.
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Well I attest to at least half of all players being prone to this kind of behavior, given the right spark.
Speaking of logical fallacies, that right there has to be a fallacy of some sort.
Nope, just personal experience where one out of two people take advantage of an exploit for any reason; counter-grief, revenge, showing off, because they can, etc...
You must've had some pretty bad gaming experiences. One would have to ask, if almost everyone you meet is a cheater and an exploiter, why continue playing online games?
Because you either deal with it, or ragequit, and we all know how many people ragequit games for *any* reason.
Plus I tend to roll in PvP servers, and it just comes with the territory. You get used to seeing it or you go home crying.
It's not isolated to PvP games either, as any unintended easy route to clear PvE or progress in levels is going to be found out and abused.
Just goes to show you that two people can have completely opposite experiences in similar situations. I play mostly on PvP servers as well, as while I did see a few exploiters here and there, they were by no means as numerous as you claim.
Mmm Hmm, you do realise that things such as AoC's PvP point farming is considered an exploit and a great deal of guilds lined up like fodder in order to feed each other points right?
It's not actually hurting anyone, so people are more inclined to do it, but it's an exploit nonetheless.
So Funcom should just get rid of open PvP then.
What is up with you and all these wack-ass answers for everything?
NO. The problem would remain even if they could duel each other for the points, or meet in the border kingdoms for it in some remote corner. There would have to be a timer that remembers what guild they were in for the last 24-72 hours and not grant points to any enemy who was in it at any point during that timeframe, or still in it during the kill.
That alone doesn't stop unguilded alts and complete strangers from doing it. I think their end answer was that you could only get 5 kill counts per player, but you could still cycle through everyone in your guild for a massive haul daily (as long as they unguilded momentarily). The only real fix is to add so much hassle to the process that nobody would bother, and compared to how hard it can be to just naturally win in regular PvP - that outlook is not so good.
That's your answer to all these supposed jumping exploits, isn't it?
Open PvP causes exploiting? Get rid of it! See how silly it sounds when it's about a different feature?
That's your answer to all these supposed jumping exploits, isn't it?
Open PvP causes exploiting? Get rid of it! See how silly it sounds when it's about a different feature?
Nope, it's just you attempting to speak for me, as usual.
You know my stance on it all by now, and no amount of denial should be able to cloud that fact. These games you are playing failed to be cute hours ago.
We already went over the fact you tried quoting me multiple times, and on top of omitting key information from my own wordage in order to back your points, you've been prven a fool for it every time.
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I've been playing MMOs for about 10 years as well and if it's one thing I learned is that most people who play them are relatively honest.
Which is why goldsellers have been steadily going downhill in games trying to sell gol... doh. Never mind. We all know they are alive and well and steadily on the rise.
Most people when given a shortcut in any MMO will take it.
People claiming "freedom" to go where they want is talking exactly about that; shortcuts to forbidden areas. Running allows you to go to the exact same place as jumping does (that you were MEANT to go to), except you don't actually jump over certain things on the way there. The areas these "freedom lovers" want to go weren't intended to go. Quite a few people love to try and go through some zone or up into some tree just so they can take screenies of "Look at me where I'm at! Guess how I got up here?" Devs don't really like seeing those types of pics cause it shows holes they didn't flush out in beta and potentially can be used in the wrong ways.
In AION/WoW, hunters/rangers use jumpshotting as a means to gain an edge on opponents by cancelling animations that the devs actually intended to go off. Just by jumping, they are able to circumvent a feature (animations) in the game devs worked quite a bit on. The result is being able to kill enemies and mobs much faster than intended over time.
This becomes "standard operating procedure" for players playing these classes and soon jumping is quite ridiculous. Even some melee classes can do this in game tipping scales of fair play. In AION, you'd see people spending hours on practice dummies and lower mobs just to perfect the exploit.
It's technically cheating in many respects but in pvp games, its done so much now it's seen as the norm. Those who DON'T jump and exploit do so at their own peril.
I've been playing MMOs for about 10 years as well and if it's one thing I learned is that most people who play them are relatively honest.
Which is why goldsellers have been steadily going downhill in games trying to sell gol... doh. Never mind. We all know they are alive and well and steadily on the rise.
Most people when given a shortcut in any MMO will take it.
People claiming "freedom" to go where they want is talking exactly about that; shortcuts to forbidden areas. Running allows you to go to the exact same place as jumping does (that you were MEANT to go to), except you don't actually jump over certain things on the way there. The areas these "freedom lovers" want to go weren't intended to go. Quite a few people love to try and go through some zone or up into some tree just so they can take screenies of "Look at me where I'm at! Guess how I got up here?" Devs don't really like seeing those types of pics cause it shows holes they didn't flush out in beta and potentially can be used in the wrong ways.
In AION/WoW, hunters/rangers use jumpshotting as a means to gain an edge on opponents by cancelling animations that the devs actually intended to go off. Just by jumping, they are able to circumvent a feature (animations) in the game devs worked quite a bit on. The result is being able to kill enemies and mobs much faster than intended over time.
This becomes "standard operating procedure" for players playing these classes and soon jumping is quite ridiculous. Even some melee classes can do this in game tipping scales of fair play. In AION, you'd see people spending hours on practice dummies and lower mobs just to perfect the exploit.
It's technically cheating in many respects but in pvp games, its done so much now it's seen as the norm. Those who DON'T jump and exploit do so at their own peril.
People talking about freedom to go where they want is just people talking about being able to jump over an obstacle as opposed to going around it. Are you people even reading this forum? I haven't seen any post in support of reaching secret, forbidden areas. But you know what? I like it how you and that other one are making stuff up. I know, for a fact, that the only reason I want to jump in a game is to gain an unfair advantage over you.
As far as jump shooting goes, it's not really an exploit. It's basically using instacast abilities on the move. It's like saying that using an instacast ability while running is an exploit.
People talking about freedom to go where they want is just people talking about being able to jump over an obstacle as opposed to going around it. Are you people even reading this forum? I haven't seen any post in support of reaching secret, forbidden areas.
As far as jump shooting goes, it's not really an exploit. It's basically using instacast abilities on the move.
We are both stating that *this* is the true motive behind your moaning over being able to jump.
You say it's about exploration - well yes, it is - your exploration is based on shortcuts and bypassing obstacles you are not meant to get past. It's not about gayly hopping through a forest as much as it is figuring a way to get up trees and to the "guess how I got here" spot. We already knew the reasoning behind it all was just based on selfishness and self-interest in the first place, and not the spirit of exploration, and other keen ideals you seem to think gamers share.
Quit bullshitting us.
You're also sharing the same denial of the "if it's in the game, it's not an exploit" crap I mentioned earlier over the animation cancelling.... which I brought up long ago with an example from WoW as well. Aion just makes another one for you.
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what kind of world do we live in where people are naive enough to defend an open world game that does not allow you to jump?
Let me get this straight...I can destroy giant creatures. I can cause chocobo genocide....i am exalted at the highest corners of the map for my crafting excellence..i can run non stop for hours....i can do anything, except jump over the two foot fence out front, and I have no excuse....none....not even gravity can understand why i cant overcome it, but fan boys, who, lets face it, are the biggest suckers on this big round globe...will spend page after page defending this as some equalization tactic created to eliminate shortcuts....frikkin dumb
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
what kind of world do we live in where people are naive enough to defend an open world game that does not allow you to jump?
Let me get this straight...I can destroy giant creatures. I can cause chocobo genocide....i am exalted at the highest corners of the map for my crafting excellence..i can run non stop for hours....i can do anything, except jump over the two foot fence out front, and I have no excuse....none....not even gravity can understand why i cant overcome it, but fan boys, who, lets face it, are the biggest suckers on this big round globe...will spend page after page defending this as some equalization tactic created to eliminate shortcuts....frikkin dumb
As far as I'm concerned, my above post is for you too.
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what kind of world do we live in where people are naive enough to defend an open world game that does not allow you to jump?
Let me get this straight...I can destroy giant creatures. I can cause chocobo genocide....i am exalted at the highest corners of the map for my crafting excellence..i can run non stop for hours....i can do anything, except jump over the two foot fence out front, and I have no excuse....none....not even gravity can understand why i cant overcome it, but fan boys, who, lets face it, are the biggest suckers on this big round globe...will spend page after page defending this as some equalization tactic created to eliminate shortcuts....frikkin dumb
According to certain individuals, the only reason for wanting to jump in a video game is so that you can exploit and gain an unfair advantage.
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You said that as a 'logical fallacy", as the others called it, not me.
I said that the majority reason people DO want it is to see what kind of mess they can get into, and that's a fact, jack.
Only you and Jet have said anything closely related to a red herring such as that.
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I've played other games without jumping (Guild Wars, Regnum Online, probably a few others I can't remember.) At first it is a tad annoying when you go to jump over a rock and realize you can't. However, you soon forget about jumping over the rock and realize you can just walk over the small ones. The huge ones you have to walk around just like in real life.
However, I do have one gripe here. That is with terrain bugs. Most games with or without jumping seem to have tiny glitches somewhere. Your foot gets stuck on a stair or a small rock. In a game with jumping you just hit your spacebar and continue on your merry way. In a game without jumping you wonder why this tiny rock is different from all the others and has stopped you dead in your tracks. Now you have to sidestep, back up, change directions...something. No game is ever 100% free of these little bugs. The worst if you get stuck on some stairs.
That is absolutely not true and it's a real shame that you have such a low opinion of people.
In actuality, the majority of gamers do not use exploits and look down on those who do.
False, everyone seeks that kind of advantage, especially when there is no chance of winning on your chutspah alone.
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See, this is what I'm saying. You honestly believe that most people will cheat just to get ahead in a video game. I think it's about time to wrap this up as it's obvious that there are some other issues at play here.
Yep, I have played these games for about 10 years after all. Everyone succumbs to it at some point, and I've seen the very people getting griefed in AoC's Noble District climb up to unreachable places to ranger down the very jerk that got them first... as well as anyone else that happens to pass by. A player figures he already went that far, what's a little more?
This crap is not honorbound because it's an effin game, people play to win, and people like to give out the taste of another's own medicine by exploiting in turn as well. There is also a lot of people who consider anything that is possible without hacking the client as non-exploit.
"well the devs left it in so they are basically saying it's ok to use"
This is not just a history lesson, it's one on human nature!
A game developer would have to be retarded not to consider the nature of their own players as the biggest issue in developing a game.
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It is still a small number of people who do this, not the majority like you claim. I've been playing MMOs for about 10 years as well and if it's one thing I learned is that most people who play them are relatively honest. There are a few bad apples but you can't get away from that. The simple fact that most AAA MMOs have a tendency to ban exploiters helps keep the majority of the playerbase honest. Not to mention the simple fact that developers fix most harmful exploits ASAP.
Well I attest to at least half of all players being prone to this kind of behavior, given the right spark. The other half is likely to respond by quitting; some because of the principles behind it, the others because they can't figure out how they are doing it.
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Speaking of logical fallacies, that right there has to be a fallacy of some sort.
Nope, just personal experience where one out of two people take advantage of an exploit for any reason; counter-grief, revenge, showing off, because they can, etc...
Hell, it's the kind of thing that deserves a poll if you ask me.
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You must've had some pretty bad gaming experiences. One would have to ask, if almost everyone you meet is a cheater and an exploiter, why continue playing online games?
Because you either deal with it, or ragequit, and we all know how many people ragequit games for *any* reason.
Plus I tend to roll in PvP servers, and it just comes with the territory. You get used to seeing it or you go home crying.
It's not isolated to PvP games either, as any unintended easy route to clear PvE or progress in levels is going to be found out and abused.
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Just goes to show you that two people can have completely opposite experiences in similar situations. I play mostly on PvP servers as well, as while I did see a few exploiters here and there, they were by no means as numerous as you claim.
Mmm Hmm, you do realise that things such as AoC's PvP point farming is considered an exploit and a great deal of guilds lined up like fodder in order to feed each other points right?
It's not actually hurting anyone, so people are more inclined to do it, but it's an exploit nonetheless.
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So Funcom should just get rid of open PvP then.
What is up with you and all these wack-ass answers for everything?
NO. The problem would remain even if they could duel each other for the points, or meet in the border kingdoms for it in some remote corner. There would have to be a timer that remembers what guild they were in for the last 24-72 hours and not grant points to any enemy who was in it at any point during that timeframe, or still in it during the kill.
That alone doesn't stop unguilded alts and complete strangers from doing it. I think their end answer was that you could only get 5 kill counts per player, but you could still cycle through everyone in your guild for a massive haul daily (as long as they unguilded momentarily). The only real fix is to add so much hassle to the process that nobody would bother, and compared to how hard it can be to just naturally win in regular PvP - that outlook is not so good.
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That's your answer to all these supposed jumping exploits, isn't it?
Open PvP causes exploiting? Get rid of it! See how silly it sounds when it's about a different feature?
Nope, it's just you attempting to speak for me, as usual.
You know my stance on it all by now, and no amount of denial should be able to cloud that fact. These games you are playing failed to be cute hours ago.
We already went over the fact you tried quoting me multiple times, and on top of omitting key information from my own wordage in order to back your points, you've been prven a fool for it every time.
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Which is why goldsellers have been steadily going downhill in games trying to sell gol... doh. Never mind. We all know they are alive and well and steadily on the rise.
Most people when given a shortcut in any MMO will take it.
People claiming "freedom" to go where they want is talking exactly about that; shortcuts to forbidden areas. Running allows you to go to the exact same place as jumping does (that you were MEANT to go to), except you don't actually jump over certain things on the way there. The areas these "freedom lovers" want to go weren't intended to go. Quite a few people love to try and go through some zone or up into some tree just so they can take screenies of "Look at me where I'm at! Guess how I got up here?" Devs don't really like seeing those types of pics cause it shows holes they didn't flush out in beta and potentially can be used in the wrong ways.
In AION/WoW, hunters/rangers use jumpshotting as a means to gain an edge on opponents by cancelling animations that the devs actually intended to go off. Just by jumping, they are able to circumvent a feature (animations) in the game devs worked quite a bit on. The result is being able to kill enemies and mobs much faster than intended over time.
This becomes "standard operating procedure" for players playing these classes and soon jumping is quite ridiculous. Even some melee classes can do this in game tipping scales of fair play. In AION, you'd see people spending hours on practice dummies and lower mobs just to perfect the exploit.
It's technically cheating in many respects but in pvp games, its done so much now it's seen as the norm. Those who DON'T jump and exploit do so at their own peril.
"TO MICHAEL!"
People talking about freedom to go where they want is just people talking about being able to jump over an obstacle as opposed to going around it. Are you people even reading this forum? I haven't seen any post in support of reaching secret, forbidden areas. But you know what? I like it how you and that other one are making stuff up. I know, for a fact, that the only reason I want to jump in a game is to gain an unfair advantage over you.
As far as jump shooting goes, it's not really an exploit. It's basically using instacast abilities on the move. It's like saying that using an instacast ability while running is an exploit.
We are both stating that *this* is the true motive behind your moaning over being able to jump.
You say it's about exploration - well yes, it is - your exploration is based on shortcuts and bypassing obstacles you are not meant to get past. It's not about gayly hopping through a forest as much as it is figuring a way to get up trees and to the "guess how I got here" spot. We already knew the reasoning behind it all was just based on selfishness and self-interest in the first place, and not the spirit of exploration, and other keen ideals you seem to think gamers share.
Quit bullshitting us.
You're also sharing the same denial of the "if it's in the game, it's not an exploit" crap I mentioned earlier over the animation cancelling.... which I brought up long ago with an example from WoW as well. Aion just makes another one for you.
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what kind of world do we live in where people are naive enough to defend an open world game that does not allow you to jump?
Let me get this straight...I can destroy giant creatures. I can cause chocobo genocide....i am exalted at the highest corners of the map for my crafting excellence..i can run non stop for hours....i can do anything, except jump over the two foot fence out front, and I have no excuse....none....not even gravity can understand why i cant overcome it, but fan boys, who, lets face it, are the biggest suckers on this big round globe...will spend page after page defending this as some equalization tactic created to eliminate shortcuts....frikkin dumb
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
As far as I'm concerned, my above post is for you too.
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According to certain individuals, the only reason for wanting to jump in a video game is so that you can exploit and gain an unfair advantage.
I'd take climbing animations and cover positions than space bar hopping in a MMO.
Really it isn't that big of a deal.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.