what kind of world do we live in where people are naive enough to defend an open world game that does not allow you to jump?
Let me get this straight...I can destroy giant creatures. I can cause chocobo genocide....i am exalted at the highest corners of the map for my crafting excellence..i can run non stop for hours....i can do anything, except jump over the two foot fence out front, and I have no excuse....none....not even gravity can understand why i cant overcome it, but fan boys, who, lets face it, are the biggest suckers on this big round globe...will spend page after page defending this as some equalization tactic created to eliminate shortcuts....frikkin dumb
According to certain individuals, the only reason for wanting to jump in a video game is so that you can exploit and gain an unfair advantage.
Yep, but according to you it's not an exploit right?
Just like animation cancelling?
QUIT BULLSHITTING US PLOX
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No, it just uses an old codebase that never had jumping in it to begin with, and all the world geometry already takes that into consideration, so there is no point in adding it since you will just force them to do checks on every inch of the zone to make sure you can't glitch in it - and you still wouldn't have a use for jumping beyond bunnyhopping for the sake of it.
This game doesn't have platforming = jumping is moot.
~and it's too late to add it.
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No, it just uses an old codebase that never had jumping in it to begin with, and all the world geometry already takes that into consideration, so there is no point in adding it since you will just force them to do checks on every inch of the zone to make sure you can't glitch in it - and you still wouldn't have a use for jumping beyond bunnyhopping for the sake of it.
This game doesn't have platforming = jumping is moot.
~and it's too late to add it.
I dont know what to say. How can you be against jumping? animation cancelling?who cares.......aren't you like 24? you'd think you'd have a clue
My problem is not with jumping ruining things, it just leaves an opening to do so.
My problem is people saying this game needs it when it obviously doesn't and zones are already made with bottlenecking in places to lead players through areas the way they intended. I don't care how "open" you assume this game will be, because SE's modus operandi will state that it won't be. They ARE going to use natural geometry to funnel you where they want you to be, and if they wanted it any other way, they would have considered implementing jumping from the beginning.
Everyone knows what to expect from Bioware's new game from their past outings, you should expect the same from SE. They do what they know, and the process of figuring out how to implement jumping correctly when the only game they ever made with it was Kingdom Hearts is stupid. Mortal Online is a game that figures crap out along the way, and you know how well that is going.
Most companies produce games using methods they have put to use for a loooong time, and world design is no effin different.
The whole thread is as fail as the "SW:toR won't survive without space combat at launch" crap.
(another thing it would take them ages to figure out without outside help, and as far as I know, the hero engine they licensed to make SW:toR with doesn't have the capability to even do it)
I plan to get my jumping fix in Blade and Soul, because I knew damn well it wouldn't be in this game long before there was any news on it. Anyone "who'd have a clue" came to the same conclusion.
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what kind of world do we live in where people are naive enough to defend an open world game that does not allow you to jump?
Let me get this straight...I can destroy giant creatures. I can cause chocobo genocide....i am exalted at the highest corners of the map for my crafting excellence..i can run non stop for hours....i can do anything, except jump over the two foot fence out front, and I have no excuse....none....not even gravity can understand why i cant overcome it, but fan boys, who, lets face it, are the biggest suckers on this big round globe...will spend page after page defending this as some equalization tactic created to eliminate shortcuts....frikkin dumb
According to certain individuals, the only reason for wanting to jump in a video game is so that you can exploit and gain an unfair advantage.
Yep, but according to you it's not an exploit right?
Just like animation cancelling?
QUIT BULLSHITTING US PLOX
Jump shooting doesn't cancel any animations. It just allows you to fire instacast abilities backwards while moving forward.
Originally posted by lectrocuda what kind of world do we live in where people are naive enough to defend an open world game that does not allow you to jump?
Probably the same one that would have everyone believe that jumping is "freedom". It's just an action that's performed when hitting a space bar.
("I want to feel free! *hits spacebar*... "I want to feel free again! *hits spacebar*.. "One more time, freedom! *hits spacebar*) That sounds like someone should be playing a Chinese avatar social game instead of a major MMO title. No reason a develop should be putting that into their whitehat meetings and on the whiteboard as something "most" people want here.
I can't think of the mindset that as someone is going from Point A to Point B in a game that instead of just locking the autorun button or WASDing, they feel compelled to hit the spacebar 100x before they get there.
Sounds like A.D.D. when you can just point the toon in that direction and steer it when you need to. Hitting the spacebar for no reason along that trip a couple hundred times during the course of a year or more is just plain weird.
I think heartless (as a person who has Pvp'ed numerous times) is simply trying to minimize the amount of people who jumpshot for advantage. He knows full well it's practically a requirement for people playing those classes to learn from the first level they can equip a bow. Heck some of them program the jump into their G15 as a macro with skills. To pretend he DOESN'T know what everyone else has already accepted is just being difficult, while he's claiming to be aware everything else in the same breath.
You know, like all those "honest people" he mentioned who don't look for advantages. -.-
Again, its a PvE game where jumping is NOT NEEDED to play the character at all, so it's not added. Every obstacle put in this game (MEANT to be bypassed) will be bypassed by simply running/traveling around them, so the jump is simply wasted code.
I mean, I guess they could give all avatars little cellphones so they could pull them out while running too for "freedom", but that's not really important either so it's not added.
A person's base need to do that is their own problem, and not our place to judge.
(I know that I am going to put B&S' qing gong jumps to the real test)
The fact remains that this games world design and base code is not equipped for it, and changing it would start an entirely new development cycle of implementing it, and the subsequent geometry fixes that are just not worth the luxury of being able to hop around mindlessly.
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Jump shooting doesn't cancel any animations. It just allows you to fire instacast abilities backwards while moving forward.
You obviously haven't played AION, so you shouldn't be using that blanket statement as fact.
Please try it out, and then revisit your above post.
(And it's not just "forwards". It can cancel/instacast backwards, as well as just jumping up in the same spot and hitting "jump" while firing. Don't have to be moving at all)
Figure you'd want to know that for the recently released MMO's this year as I'm not sure when you stopped playing them.
~but don't gloat, because the score is still like 30 to 1.
I had to let you get one, so that it wouldn't be a total shot out.
Cute.
how can anyone get anyone in this thread?
In fact this is my last post because this is a stupid topic. I will not play this game EVER, nor would I ever recommend it. In fact my advice to anyone I liked would be to stay away unless you are a 12 year old girl.
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
~but don't gloat, because the score is still like 30 to 1.
I had to let you get one, so that it wouldn't be a total shot out.
Cute.
how can anyone get anyone in this thread?
In fact this is my last post because this is a stupid topic. I will not play this game EVER, nor would I ever recommend it. In fact my advice to anyone I liked would be to stay away unless you are a 12 year old girl.
~and I am sure you will be missed dearly.
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Jump shooting doesn't cancel any animations. It just allows you to fire instacast abilities backwards while moving forward.
You obviously haven't played AION, so you shouldn't be using that blanket statement as fact.
Please try it out, and then revisit your above post.
(And it's not just "forwards". It can cancel/instacast backwards, as well as just jumping up in the same spot and hitting "jump" while firing. Don't have to be moving at all)
Figure you'd want to know that for the recently released MMO's this year as I'm not sure when you stopped playing them.
I have played Aion but it was a while ago and I honestly do not remember. However, you can not use an issue in one game as a reason for not implementing a feature in another game.
I don't know what your deal really is, but it's been stated the reason they shouldn't implement it is the unnecessary development time to add a function they have *zero* experience with in a game beyond Kingdom Hearts. KH is not applicable to FFXIV in the least bit.
You can keep avoiding the facts and think this is all some anti-bunnyhop monement, or people that "just don't get it", but I know bullshitting when I see it - I just wonder if you're aware that you're giving it. ~and if you are, congrats on being able to live with yourself.
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I don't know what your deal really is, but it's been stated the reason they shouldn't implement it is the unnecessary development time to add a function they have *zero* experience with in a game beyond Kingdom Hearts. KH is not applicable to FFXIV in the least bit.
You can keep avoiding the facts and think this is all some anti-bunnyhop monement, or people that "just don't get it", but I know bullshitting when I see it - I just wonder if you're aware that you're giving it. ~and if you are, congrats on being able to live with yourself.
I'm doing this because you people are deliberately spreading lies and misinformation in order to support your argument and when I saw the comments which claimed that jumping causes exploits, I just couldn't help myself.
The game is not going to have a jump feature but let's be honest here, it's not because it can lead to exploits or some other nonsense, it's because SE, like most other asian developers, likes to restrict your experience to a certain path. Also, SE's other games are not really known for freedom anyway.
Besides, they are obviously using a engine which is not designed with the Z-axis in mind and they didn't want to spend time and money releasing a truly imersive experience because enough people will buy their game anyway.
There is no lie that the code of FFXIV is salvaged from FFXI, and no lie that FFXI had no jumping.
There is no lie that the time/money to implement it *now*, and make sure it doesn't just get people stuck on everything they already made (which does not support jumping) is not worth it.
There is no lie that jumping is uncomplimentary to combat.
There is no lie that SE has no experience with it outside of KH, a game that is so radically different from this one that it simply cannot apply.
There is no lie about jumping being *pointless* without predetermined areas where it's necessary.
The only person lying here is you, to yourself, and to the rest of us.
Quit bullshitting and maybe someone will start to take you seriously for once.
You're stating a case for forum posters being completely delusional and ignorant about anything they want out of a game.
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Not that I think the game needs a jump function assuming your char can traverse the low level obsticals that jump is actual used for i.e. the 2ft fence every one against the no jump policy likes to point out. In the same I understand and feel the same that not being able to perform simple actions (walk, run, turn, jump) makes a game feel restricting to me but its not a deal breaker. Not implementing jump does grant them more freedom in how they control player movement i.e. usualy in a game without jump you cant jump off the ledge to get to the lower level you ahve to walk around forcing you to hit triggers, pass mobs, etc. where as games with jump even if its meaningless do have small points of exploit due to the feature. Then there are options like GW I think it is, there is no jumping you have to walk around the 2ft fence which is fine by me any way, there is however a jump emote (useless of course but all the same).
I suppose its much like the "walk" feature, how many of you use the run/walk toggle in any game that has it, did you know that most MMOs and RPGs have some means of run/walk toggle least that I can recall, its implemented because it has no negative impact to there designe and requiers such a small effort that its not even mentionable. Grated jump unlike walk does have said impact, you can nolonger use small barries like 2ft fences to stop people from going over the edge of a bridge, cliff etc. and now must use transparent walls not that its so difficult or costly to do so but jumping does being there or not does have a prity large impact on what they can and can not do with topography in teh game world, if you can jump then they must make sure to cage you if only with transparent blocks where needed if you cant jump then they are free to give you the look of a completly open and boundless world and stop you with logicle impasses i.e. 2ft fences.
In summery, I understand its not "needed", I do agree that its nice to have but simpathise with the designe choice to omit it given the fact that it does bring the potental for minor explots/issues/etc such as jumping off things you shouldn't to get past where you should be, or worce yet jumping into a place you cant jump out of.
I think a simple solution and they may be doing it any way, is to allow a jump emote tied to the space bar, so low and week in animation that it does not appear you can jump off any thing, + a feature such that you char can swing over low obsticals (walls, etc) and or "jump points" like we saw in past FF games. All of that set aside no matter what they do in the relam of jumping or not it wont make or break the game for me though I understand it does for some. In the end I look forward to FF as a FF fan but doubt the MMO will be a my main MMO to play.
You mean it's a luxury adding it now at the current situation of the game? If that's what you're saying than that's true. That would be like a pointless emote. We know that they can't add it now because they would had to recreate the entire world. What we're discussing though is why SE choose to go this way from the beginning.
For the same reasons that you can expect Bioware to stick to mechanics they treat as staples in their other games.
It's what they know.
In that case bioware shouldn't make an mmo , becuase they have not in the past.
GT all you use are are non arguments or logical fallacies. There is no agrument or logic here you just are saying over and over becuase X then Y, but there is no correlation between X and Y so you don't have an agrument.
Equally i can say becuase i like banana jumping is required, this agruemtn is vaild as every argument you have used in theis thread and enough people have pointed this out.
You can keep doing this feel free but me and 3 other people will continmue to point it out and we will no longer be talking about FFXIV but instead how your post are illogical and mean nothing.
Do I need to quote your idiot post that clearly states;
"If the answer to jump exploits is to remove jumping, then the answer to lag is to remove internet play"
You had a couple people call you on making stupid points, and now you want to bring up the "logical fallacies" spiel those people were using on *you* against *me*? Tactless, tasteless and tactless.
Anyone with half a brain can read back a few pages and see that you wear diapers.
Yes i did write that to point out what an awful and unlogical arguemnt you were making.
Thus i made a second and equally stuiped statment about lag.
And now you point this out, but you still don't get it. Both of those arguemnts are not vaild thats the point.
Anyoenm with half a brain would have realized this , why didn't you.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
You mean it's a luxury adding it now at the current situation of the game? If that's what you're saying than that's true. That would be like a pointless emote. We know that they can't add it now because they would had to recreate the entire world. What we're discussing though is why SE choose to go this way from the beginning.
For the same reasons that you can expect Bioware to stick to mechanics they treat as staples in their other games.
It's what they know.
In that case bioware shouldn't make an mmo , becuase they have not in the past.
GT all you use are are non arguments or logical fallacies. There is no agrument or logic here you just are saying over and over becuase X then Y, but there is no correlation between X and Y so you don't have an agrument.
Equally i can say becuase i like banana jumping is required, this agruemtn is vaild as every argument you have used in theis thread and enough people have pointed this out.
You can keep doing this feel free but me and 3 other people will continmue to point it out and we will no longer be talking about FFXIV but instead how your post are illogical and mean nothing.
Do I need to quote your idiot post that clearly states;
"If the answer to jump exploits is to remove jumping, then the answer to lag is to remove internet play"
You had a couple people call you on making stupid points, and now you want to bring up the "logical fallacies" spiel those people were using on *you* against *me*? Tactless, tasteless and tactless.
Anyone with half a brain can read back a few pages and see that you wear diapers.
Yes i did write that to point out what an awful and unlogical arguemnt you were making.
Thus i made a second and equally stuiped statment about lag.
And now you point this out, but you still don't get it. Both of those arguemnts are not vaild thats the point.
Anyoenm with half a brain would have realized this , why didn't you.
That's funny, because nowhere have I said they should ever *remove* jumping because of the exploits, I only said it being there is bound to have some. The other troll tried his hardest to quote me at that, and failed miserably. You're welcome to try as well, or you can just sit there all smug-like and blow smoke out your ass as usual. It seems the two of you are so strung up on the misreading of my points that you could be the same person.
Are you?
~and if you wanna put words in my mouth? Find a quote to doctor like the other guy, but I promise I will just make you look as stupid as you really are afterwards, just like him.
You and him are the only ones stating any bullshit logic that if somethng is broken, remove it.
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Comments
Yep, but according to you it's not an exploit right?
Just like animation cancelling?
QUIT BULLSHITTING US PLOX
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Is this game Click-to-Move or something ?
No, it just uses an old codebase that never had jumping in it to begin with, and all the world geometry already takes that into consideration, so there is no point in adding it since you will just force them to do checks on every inch of the zone to make sure you can't glitch in it - and you still wouldn't have a use for jumping beyond bunnyhopping for the sake of it.
This game doesn't have platforming = jumping is moot.
~and it's too late to add it.
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My problem is not with jumping ruining things, it just leaves an opening to do so.
My problem is people saying this game needs it when it obviously doesn't and zones are already made with bottlenecking in places to lead players through areas the way they intended. I don't care how "open" you assume this game will be, because SE's modus operandi will state that it won't be. They ARE going to use natural geometry to funnel you where they want you to be, and if they wanted it any other way, they would have considered implementing jumping from the beginning.
Everyone knows what to expect from Bioware's new game from their past outings, you should expect the same from SE. They do what they know, and the process of figuring out how to implement jumping correctly when the only game they ever made with it was Kingdom Hearts is stupid. Mortal Online is a game that figures crap out along the way, and you know how well that is going.
Most companies produce games using methods they have put to use for a loooong time, and world design is no effin different.
The whole thread is as fail as the "SW:toR won't survive without space combat at launch" crap.
(another thing it would take them ages to figure out without outside help, and as far as I know, the hero engine they licensed to make SW:toR with doesn't have the capability to even do it)
I plan to get my jumping fix in Blade and Soul, because I knew damn well it wouldn't be in this game long before there was any news on it. Anyone "who'd have a clue" came to the same conclusion.
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omg there's more posty's about jumping this is making me lawl to hard.
Jump shooting doesn't cancel any animations. It just allows you to fire instacast abilities backwards while moving forward.
~and this cannot be an exploit because?
Sounds to me like a route to indefinitely kite without having to stop and attack.
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Because they are instant cast abilities without a casting time and were designed to be fired on the move.
K, got me there.
~but don't gloat, because the score is still like 30 to 1.
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Probably the same one that would have everyone believe that jumping is "freedom". It's just an action that's performed when hitting a space bar.
("I want to feel free! *hits spacebar*... "I want to feel free again! *hits spacebar*.. "One more time, freedom! *hits spacebar*) That sounds like someone should be playing a Chinese avatar social game instead of a major MMO title. No reason a develop should be putting that into their whitehat meetings and on the whiteboard as something "most" people want here.
I can't think of the mindset that as someone is going from Point A to Point B in a game that instead of just locking the autorun button or WASDing, they feel compelled to hit the spacebar 100x before they get there.
Sounds like A.D.D. when you can just point the toon in that direction and steer it when you need to. Hitting the spacebar for no reason along that trip a couple hundred times during the course of a year or more is just plain weird.
I think heartless (as a person who has Pvp'ed numerous times) is simply trying to minimize the amount of people who jumpshot for advantage. He knows full well it's practically a requirement for people playing those classes to learn from the first level they can equip a bow. Heck some of them program the jump into their G15 as a macro with skills. To pretend he DOESN'T know what everyone else has already accepted is just being difficult, while he's claiming to be aware everything else in the same breath.
You know, like all those "honest people" he mentioned who don't look for advantages. -.-
Again, its a PvE game where jumping is NOT NEEDED to play the character at all, so it's not added. Every obstacle put in this game (MEANT to be bypassed) will be bypassed by simply running/traveling around them, so the jump is simply wasted code.
I mean, I guess they could give all avatars little cellphones so they could pull them out while running too for "freedom", but that's not really important either so it's not added.
"TO MICHAEL!"
A person's base need to do that is their own problem, and not our place to judge.
(I know that I am going to put B&S' qing gong jumps to the real test)
The fact remains that this games world design and base code is not equipped for it, and changing it would start an entirely new development cycle of implementing it, and the subsequent geometry fixes that are just not worth the luxury of being able to hop around mindlessly.
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I had to let you get one, so that it wouldn't be a total shot out.
Cute.
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WRONG!
All "instant spell" means is casting a spell that can't be interupted. Some game do them so you can cast while moving other don't. Fact
You obviously haven't played AION, so you shouldn't be using that blanket statement as fact.
Please try it out, and then revisit your above post.
(And it's not just "forwards". It can cancel/instacast backwards, as well as just jumping up in the same spot and hitting "jump" while firing. Don't have to be moving at all)
Figure you'd want to know that for the recently released MMO's this year as I'm not sure when you stopped playing them.
"TO MICHAEL!"
how can anyone get anyone in this thread?
In fact this is my last post because this is a stupid topic. I will not play this game EVER, nor would I ever recommend it. In fact my advice to anyone I liked would be to stay away unless you are a 12 year old girl.
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
~and I am sure you will be missed dearly.
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Instant cast abilities are abilities that are cast instantly. That is why they are called 'Instant cast."
I have played Aion but it was a while ago and I honestly do not remember. However, you can not use an issue in one game as a reason for not implementing a feature in another game.
I don't know what your deal really is, but it's been stated the reason they shouldn't implement it is the unnecessary development time to add a function they have *zero* experience with in a game beyond Kingdom Hearts. KH is not applicable to FFXIV in the least bit.
You can keep avoiding the facts and think this is all some anti-bunnyhop monement, or people that "just don't get it", but I know bullshitting when I see it - I just wonder if you're aware that you're giving it. ~and if you are, congrats on being able to live with yourself.
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I'm doing this because you people are deliberately spreading lies and misinformation in order to support your argument and when I saw the comments which claimed that jumping causes exploits, I just couldn't help myself.
The game is not going to have a jump feature but let's be honest here, it's not because it can lead to exploits or some other nonsense, it's because SE, like most other asian developers, likes to restrict your experience to a certain path. Also, SE's other games are not really known for freedom anyway.
Besides, they are obviously using a engine which is not designed with the Z-axis in mind and they didn't want to spend time and money releasing a truly imersive experience because enough people will buy their game anyway.
There is no lie that the code of FFXIV is salvaged from FFXI, and no lie that FFXI had no jumping.
There is no lie that the time/money to implement it *now*, and make sure it doesn't just get people stuck on everything they already made (which does not support jumping) is not worth it.
There is no lie that jumping is uncomplimentary to combat.
There is no lie that SE has no experience with it outside of KH, a game that is so radically different from this one that it simply cannot apply.
There is no lie about jumping being *pointless* without predetermined areas where it's necessary.
The only person lying here is you, to yourself, and to the rest of us.
Quit bullshitting and maybe someone will start to take you seriously for once.
You're stating a case for forum posters being completely delusional and ignorant about anything they want out of a game.
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Not that I think the game needs a jump function assuming your char can traverse the low level obsticals that jump is actual used for i.e. the 2ft fence every one against the no jump policy likes to point out. In the same I understand and feel the same that not being able to perform simple actions (walk, run, turn, jump) makes a game feel restricting to me but its not a deal breaker. Not implementing jump does grant them more freedom in how they control player movement i.e. usualy in a game without jump you cant jump off the ledge to get to the lower level you ahve to walk around forcing you to hit triggers, pass mobs, etc. where as games with jump even if its meaningless do have small points of exploit due to the feature. Then there are options like GW I think it is, there is no jumping you have to walk around the 2ft fence which is fine by me any way, there is however a jump emote (useless of course but all the same).
I suppose its much like the "walk" feature, how many of you use the run/walk toggle in any game that has it, did you know that most MMOs and RPGs have some means of run/walk toggle least that I can recall, its implemented because it has no negative impact to there designe and requiers such a small effort that its not even mentionable. Grated jump unlike walk does have said impact, you can nolonger use small barries like 2ft fences to stop people from going over the edge of a bridge, cliff etc. and now must use transparent walls not that its so difficult or costly to do so but jumping does being there or not does have a prity large impact on what they can and can not do with topography in teh game world, if you can jump then they must make sure to cage you if only with transparent blocks where needed if you cant jump then they are free to give you the look of a completly open and boundless world and stop you with logicle impasses i.e. 2ft fences.
In summery, I understand its not "needed", I do agree that its nice to have but simpathise with the designe choice to omit it given the fact that it does bring the potental for minor explots/issues/etc such as jumping off things you shouldn't to get past where you should be, or worce yet jumping into a place you cant jump out of.
I think a simple solution and they may be doing it any way, is to allow a jump emote tied to the space bar, so low and week in animation that it does not appear you can jump off any thing, + a feature such that you char can swing over low obsticals (walls, etc) and or "jump points" like we saw in past FF games. All of that set aside no matter what they do in the relam of jumping or not it wont make or break the game for me though I understand it does for some. In the end I look forward to FF as a FF fan but doubt the MMO will be a my main MMO to play.
Yes i did write that to point out what an awful and unlogical arguemnt you were making.
Thus i made a second and equally stuiped statment about lag.
And now you point this out, but you still don't get it. Both of those arguemnts are not vaild thats the point.
Anyoenm with half a brain would have realized this , why didn't you.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
That's funny, because nowhere have I said they should ever *remove* jumping because of the exploits, I only said it being there is bound to have some. The other troll tried his hardest to quote me at that, and failed miserably. You're welcome to try as well, or you can just sit there all smug-like and blow smoke out your ass as usual. It seems the two of you are so strung up on the misreading of my points that you could be the same person.
Are you?
~and if you wanna put words in my mouth? Find a quote to doctor like the other guy, but I promise I will just make you look as stupid as you really are afterwards, just like him.
You and him are the only ones stating any bullshit logic that if somethng is broken, remove it.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture