Refund successful and account banned, good luck with MO

thorppes · July 2010

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

Originally posted by socialstatus

There is nothing wrong with returning your product once, even twice. A problem does occur when you are constantly replying to other people's arguements with the same responses. Not like any of the responses are ilegitimate, but does make you like a bit of a jerk ( no offense intended). Also to everyone else, alot of you are bringing up the same gosh darn argument... Please for arguments sakes, read the whole argument before responding, It makes you sound a bit more intelligent.

I wish they would or I am going to have to get links to post to respond to people saying I am frauding SV for releasing a broken and incomplete game.

The game has everything they offered for launch working except for thievery which is being re-introduced soon. The point people are making; You knew the condition of the game having played it closed/open beta, you got a charge back because you didn't like it and then proceeded to buy it again and try to get another charge back full well knowing the condition of the game at that time before purchase. Fraud.

rlmccoy1987 · July 2010

Originally posted by thorppes

The game has everything they offered for launch working except for thievery which is being re-introduced soon. The point people are making; You knew the condition of the game having played it closed/open beta, you got a charge back because you didn't like it and then proceeded to buy it again and try to get another charge back full well knowing the condition of the game at that time before purchase. Fraud.

Seriously?

Getting a refund back in SEPTEMBER for a PREORDER when SV would not even respond to requests from the CC is fraud?

Getting a refund after launch (~9 months later) when the game is broken and incomplete and full of bugs/dupers/hackers and having a server that is/was never online is fraud?

All I am going to respond with is...

Xianthos · July 2010

rlmccoy1987

Originally posted by Xianthos

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

Originally posted by Plutonicwoes

The preorder is fair, I never said there was a problem there.

You, however, closely followed the MO progress, and knew full well the state of the game before you purchased it again.

Not true, why would you say that?

Just for you. Your first purchase.

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

Originally posted by joshe

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

I am trying to make sure people actually know whats going on and not to spend money on this until after the release. I am trying to warn people not to buy it due to the fanboy hype and distortion of what is actually happening. I think its a public service to help people save money...

The only thing you are trying to do, is to vilify Starvault as a developer.

You - as a vengeful man - are just trolling.

Where are objective videos inside your post ?

Ohh , you forgot that nothing less than 9 out of 10 beta players are very pleased and satisfied from preordering MO.

Did you preorder MO ?

Did you play it personally ?

I doubt that very much.

Wish you tons of gold, and plenty free hours to spend them on farming this gold in sweet cookiecutting themepark

chaffrpgs.

1) I bought the game in block A

2) Yes, I played it.

3) 90% of the beta players I talk to are bored of MO pvp (as thats the only thing to do right now) and they are worried for Starvault. They still like that they preordered the game, but many doubt they will play after the first 30 days after launch.

And the according link

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3338698#3338698

and ofcourse print screen uploaded by imagehack to make sure there wont be ninja edit

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/6221/rlmccoy1987.png

Your second purchase about 3-4 weeks ago.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3630959#3630959

Normaly im extremly lazy about doing such things but for you i would do a lot

I hope you enjoy robbing 10 mins of my life.

Btw there is aswell a pots where you admited to used two different payment methods.

Copy / paste is what an answer to you is worth.

rlmccoy1987 · July 2010

Originally posted by Xianthos
rlmccoy1987

Originally posted by Xianthos

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

Originally posted by Plutonicwoes

The preorder is fair, I never said there was a problem there.

You, however, closely followed the MO progress, and knew full well the state of the game before you purchased it again.

Not true, why would you say that?

Just for you. Your first purchase.

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

Originally posted by joshe

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

I am trying to make sure people actually know whats going on and not to spend money on this until after the release. I am trying to warn people not to buy it due to the fanboy hype and distortion of what is actually happening. I think its a public service to help people save money...

The only thing you are trying to do, is to vilify Starvault as a developer.

You - as a vengeful man - are just trolling.

Where are objective videos inside your post ?

Ohh , you forgot that nothing less than 9 out of 10 beta players are very pleased and satisfied from preordering MO.

Did you preorder MO ?

Did you play it personally ?

I doubt that very much.

Wish you tons of gold, and plenty free hours to spend them on farming this gold in sweet cookiecutting themepark

chaffrpgs.

1) I bought the game in block A

2) Yes, I played it.

3) 90% of the beta players I talk to are bored of MO pvp (as thats the only thing to do right now) and they are worried for Starvault. They still like that they preordered the game, but many doubt they will play after the first 30 days after launch.

And the according link

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3338698#3338698

and ofcourse print screen uploaded by imagehack to make sure there wont be ninja edit

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/6221/rlmccoy1987.png

Your second purchase about 3-4 weeks ago.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3630959#3630959

Normaly im extremly lazy about doing such things but for you i would do a lot

I hope you enjoy robbing 10 mins of my life.

Btw there is aswell a pots where you admited to used two different payment methods.

Copy / paste is what an answer to you is worth.

Why are you posting this 2 different times in here?

FYI - http://www.mmorpg.com/post/3630959#3630959 does not work

Xianthos · July 2010

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

Why are you posting this 2 different times in here?

FYI - http://www.mmorpg.com/post/3630959#3630959 does not work

Dont know whats your problem, but all provided links are working

rlmccoy1987 · July 2010

Originally posted by Xianthos

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

Why are you posting this 2 different times in here?

FYI - http://www.mmorpg.com/post/3630959#3630959 does not work

I knew i should have done a screenshot ;-)

That only confirms what ive told. Thank your for admiting. Its like a criminal gets rid of the evidence.

Criminal? I always wanted to be a criminal!

Where is the fraud? If you have not (seems you have not) please read up on my response to the preorder refund and the release refund.

Xianthos · July 2010

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

Originally posted by Xianthos

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

Why are you posting this 2 different times in here?

FYI - http://www.mmorpg.com/post/3630959#3630959 does not work

I knew i should have done a screenshot ;-)

That only confirms what ive told. Thank your for admiting. Its like a criminal gets rid of the evidence.

Criminal? I always wanted to be a criminal!

Where is the fraud? If you have not (seems you have not) please read up on my response to the preorder refund and the release refund.

A commiter is always innocent. We know. All the people in jail are innocent. Any one there can tell you a story how he was innocent busted by police

kilun · July 2010

I do not understand everyones issue with Mccoy? He tried a game that he choose to pay to beta and asked for a refund. Company failed to respond(which means for all he knew they were stealing his money, as they may never intent to actually launch a product) and got a refund.

I myself actually was thinking about MO because of some of the reviews, but they were nearly 50/50 on good or bad. Him liking the theme and game itself, decided to try it now that it was released. He can't get on, shows post of the developers stating its not what they promised as well as insane downtime and that he can not play the game. Uses the protection from a credit card again to get his money back.

Whats the issue? Because he took the product for its word and felt cheated and wanted to spend his time disputing it and proving that the error was on them not him(as they failed to deliver said product)?

Everyones sense of right and wrong will differ. What he did is in no way criminal or unjust. He is holding the developers accountable for what they sold as a broken and unusable product. Why is that such a problem?

Ikonic · July 2010

If you followed the MO forums on this site you would know that he knew the state of the game (posted regularly flaming it) prior to buying it a second time. He made his feelings well known on this site about his feelings of MO, SV did not fraud him in anyway because he made it a habit of pointing out all of its faults so he knew what he was getting into. He also has a habit of preordering games, playing the beta that normally comes with the preorder and then seeking a refund (Aion, Darkfall, MO and soon to be Xsyon)

Aconsar · July 2010

Originally posted by kilun
I do not understand everyones issue with Mccoy? He tried a game that he choose to pay to beta and asked for a refund. Company failed to respond(which means for all he knew they were stealing his money, as they may never intent to actually launch a product) and got a refund.

I myself actually was thinking about MO because of some of the reviews, but they were nearly 50/50 on good or bad. Him liking the theme and game itself, decided to try it now that it was released. He can't get on, shows post of the developers stating its not what they promised as well as insane downtime and that he can not play the game. Uses the protection from a credit card again to get his money back.

Whats the issue? Because he took the product for its word and felt cheated and wanted to spend his time disputing it and proving that the error was on them not him(as they failed to deliver said product)?

Everyones sense of right and wrong will differ. What he did is in no way criminal or unjust. He is holding the developers accountable for what they sold as a broken and unusable product. Why is that such a problem?

He hides behind the guise of actually caring about the game. If you've been following his posts on this site before release, you'd know he finds every bit of information and new ways to bash the game/company/devs/whatever. MO is what it is, no one has tried hiding that and it's your own fault for pre-ordering an unfinished product for beta access. Anyone that pre-ordered or even bought the game knowing full well that state of it shouldn't get a refund, they should get laughed at for lack of basic reading comprehension.

Slapshot1188 · July 2010

Originally posted by Aconsar

He hides behind the guise of actually caring about the game. If you've been following his posts on this site before release, you'd know he finds every bit of information and new ways to bash the game/company/devs/whatever. MO is what it is, no one has tried hiding that and it's your own fault for pre-ordering an unfinished product for beta access. Anyone that pre-ordered or even bought the game knowing full well that state of it shouldn't get a refund, they should get laughed at for lack of basic reading comprehension.

So.. when the order page for a game says (and still does) that it includes all pre-release updates freely shipped on DVD. And it's now a month AFTER launch and no such DVD has been sent... how does "a lack of reading comprehension" (as you state above) come into play?

That fact alone is enough to justify a refund. We don't even have to look at the myriad of other reasons.. that one alone justifies a refund for anyone that bought the boxed version.

kilun · July 2010

You ever here the term, "seeing is believing?" I do not care what someone says about some product, you have to see or try it for yourself. I do not care if he ordered the game, got a charge back. Then used a different card and new account a week later to see if it was fixed. If it wasn't he used the ability to get his refund legally. If the box, website, etc promote something not available, then he is in his right. If he pays an additional month and request, not a chance as he already knew what he got and continued.

Let me point out there is a difference between ethical and non-ethical, and this is purely non-ethical to me. Regardless of the legality of it. Its not much different than buying a shirt and wearing it out for a day to take it back and get a refund since you never took of the tag. Is it legal? Sure. Ethical, not a chance.

As for him pre-ordering to beta, you don't? I go down to gamestop and depending on the "perks" I pre-order between 5-10 copies usually. I register 1 of them. I sell the rest, especially if they offer a "head start" those things sell for at least 20 a pop on Ebay. Nothing like free money since you can just cancel your pre-order anytime you wish(I got a refund for a pre-order 6months after the product was released before) Seriously, anyone who wants the easiest bucks you'll make should do that. Maybe then this "pre-order" insanity will subdue itself.

osmunda · July 2010

Originally posted by kilun I do not understand everyones issue with Mccoy? He tried a game that he choose to pay to beta and asked for a refund. Company failed to respond(which means for all he knew they were stealing his money, as they may never intent to actually launch a product) and got a refund.

Originally posted by kilun
You ever here the term, "seeing is believing?" I do not care what someone says about some product, you have to see or try it for yourself. I do not care if he ordered the game, got a charge back. Then used a different card and new account a week later to see if it was fixed. If it wasn't he used the ability to get his refund legally. If the box, website, etc promote something not available, then he is in his right. If he pays an additional month and request, not a chance as he already knew what he got and continued.

Let me point out there is a difference between ethical and non-ethical, and this is purely non-ethical to me. Regardless of the legality of it. Its not much different than buying a shirt and wearing it out for a day to take it back and get a refund since you never took of the tag. Is it legal? Sure. Ethical, not a chance.

As for him pre-ordering to beta, you don't? I go down to gamestop and depending on the "perks" I pre-order between 5-10 copies usually. I register 1 of them. I sell the rest, especially if they offer a "head start" those things sell for at least 20 a pop on Ebay. Nothing like free money since you can just cancel your pre-order anytime you wish(I got a refund for a pre-order 6months after the product was released before) Seriously, anyone who wants the easiest bucks you'll make should do that. Maybe then this "pre-order" insanity will subdue itself.

It appears that you do understand everyone's issue with rlmccoy. He has engaged in behavior that you label as unethical, yet will post at length about how un-ethical Starvault is. His actions may not meet a legal definition of fraud but are exactly the definition of "friendly fraud". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fraud

Also instructive is this section from the wikipedia article on chargebacks

"Criticisms

Unscrupulous consumers may abuse the chargeback mechanism, at the expense of merchants.

Consumers who experience buyer's remorse, or engage in other forms of friendly fraud, may habitually reverse transactions."

The essential problem is that he is claiming buyer's remorse, and many people see no sincerity in that remorse.

rlmccoy1987 · July 2010

Originally posted by osmunda

It appears that you do understand everyone's issue with rlmccoy. He has engaged in behavior that you label as unethical, yet will post at length about how un-ethical Starvault is. His actions may not meet a legal definition of fraud but are exactly the definition of "friendly fraud". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fraud

Also instructive is this section from the wikipedia article on chargebacks

"Criticisms

Unscrupulous consumers may abuse the chargeback mechanism, at the expense of merchants.

Consumers who experience buyer's remorse, or engage in other forms of friendly fraud, may habitually reverse transactions."

The essential problem is that he is claiming buyer's remorse, and many people see no sincerity in that remorse.

I am friendly?

rlmccoy1987 · July 2010

Even the biggest fans are starting to get bored and starting to leave...

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/49462-if-sandbox-then-work-fun-factor.html

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/49340-goodbye.html

Slapshot1188 · July 2010

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987
Even the biggest fans are starting to get bored and starting to leave...

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/49462-if-sandbox-then-work-fun-factor.html

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/49340-goodbye.html

Heh.. I was wondering why that guy stopped posting over here.

rlmccoy1987 · July 2010

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

Even the biggest fans are starting to get bored and starting to leave...

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/49462-if-sandbox-then-work-fun-factor.html

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/49340-goodbye.html

Heh.. I was wondering why that guy stopped posting over here.

And that sCouraGe guy won a contest didn't he? Sad to see he helped them promote false propaganda with those "contest" videos to sell more copies of their broken game, maybe he realizes now what he did?

pepsi1028 · July 2010

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987
Seems that the players can crash the server now at will to steal loot.

SARCASM

Game is the most hardcore game ever made! If you dont like all the bugs, exploits, dupes, hacking... GTFO!

/SARCASM

Please stop bashing this game. We all know it has problems.....

We don't need countless numbers of posts from you sauying the same thing.....

rlmccoy1987 · July 2010

Originally posted by pepsi1028

Please stop bashing this game. We all know it has problems.....

We don't need countless numbers of posts from you sauying the same thing.....

I am not bashing the game, just pointing out what the fans have said, such as "Not hardcore enough? GTFO" types of phrases.

rlmccoy1987 · July 2010

Just some more proof the game is dying

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/49511-where-can-i-find-pvp-server-dead.html

Also, the server seems to continue to crash without anyone there to reboot

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/49513-why-taking-so-long-reboot-server.html

rlmccoy1987 · July 2010

Maerlyn responding to how unprofessional they have been and have become

rlmccoy1987 · July 2010

People are starting to realize the game is dying...

Yamota · July 2010

Originally posted by rlmccoy1987

Originally posted by Yamota

Go rimccoy! I just deleted the game and chalked it up for learning experience of not buying indy games without first seen some kind of review or beta. Glad you had the energy to fight for a charge for this pitiful excuse of an MMOG!

You need to add me back to your steam friends (inferno, played LotRO with you and the other guy for a month or so)

and thanks

Sorry dont use steam and only tried LOTR for a few days, several years ago. Dont think it was me you played with.

MikeB · July 2010

This thread (and situation) has gone on long enough. Thread locked.

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