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MASSIVELY REVIEWS MORTAL ONLINE: "STAY AWAY. STAY FAR AWAY."
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You do understand the difference between a review and an article right?
-So, even if you want to raise a skill you don't have, you need to buy the book for it. This is a huge problem, as every book has the same description: "Comming Soon (TM)."-
hahahahaha, priceless
I quoted the author. She is calling it a review. If you have a complaint perhaps you can take it up with her...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Massively Staffer #1 : Man we only say good things about EVERY game.
Massively Staffer #2: Yea. Is there anything that we can write a poor review of so people will think we're impartial and tell it like it is?
Massively Staffer #1: How about Mortal Online? Who cares if we piss off the 30 people subbed to that game?
Massively Staffer #2: Great Idea. They haven't even finished that game! Why didn't I think of that?
Good job Massively! That review was like shooting fish in a barrel. Now how about similar reviews for the tons of craptacular FTP games you keep reviewing as "fun, with amazing potential"!
Massively = Masters of the obvious
No, it's an absolute waste of time. My company has done several M&As in the last few years, and across my desk have come software written by other companies that we had to co-opt. When the code was bad, we basically did a cost-benefit analysis and most of the time realized that the amount of time it would take to follow, and fix the code, make it usable across multiple developers and have it tie into a source control properly (separate out modules, functions, subs, dlls, etc) was usually about the same time it would be to do it from scratch.
It is a *lot* of work. This idea that taking somebody else's bad code and being able to use it with new developers easily is ridiculous, because we don't know their variable naming schemes (they probably don't have one, given their lack of experience), their namespaces, etc. ALL of that work has to be FIGURED OUT, and then FIXED. The time it takes to figure it out will be HUGE. What if they are using X for a counter in a for loop, and in another routine they use "cnt"? These are the types of things you would know if you managed software projects.
A company to buy this game, the IP, as it is -- it's more of a detriment than a benefit. The amount of work it would take to re-engineer all this stuff, why would they pay the price for the IP when they could do it from scratch, with NO additional cost? The only thing of redeeming value is the graphics, and even those aren't great which can be re-done pretty fast by a competent and experienced team. Right now MO's functionality stretches to be less than that of MODS of games. Hell, Age of Chivalry has more combat depth and it's only a mod.
Again, why would ANY company buy Mortal Online's IP, when the amount of time to fix it would be huge and costly. When have you EVER heard of a company buying out a piece of garbage company? Sigil games was bought out by Sony because they were PROFITABLE. NCSoft brought in Richard Garriot because he made MONEY. Nobody goes out and buys a loser, and nobody will look at MO and think "I can turn this around", because in the software development world, it has to work properly to begin with, otherwise trying to rearchitect it will be like fixing the whole first floor of the Empire State Building, without knocking down the entire building to get there. It's difficult, costly, and most of the time, pointless. Especially when they'd have to pay a premium just to get the rights to the game.
But you are forgetting it does work properly.. The combat system works? The crafting system works? You are physically able to move around? You are able to kill stuff (PvE)? The major pieces of the puzzles are there with a few loose ends. Codes are easy to fix if you have the co-operation of the company you are taking over. Which is not unheard of and you can fix stuff with minimual cost. In my opinion it is cheaper to take over a company then only spend an extra what 10 million into just improvements. That is all that is need improvements. The basics are there.
Also the additional cost will not cost more then the game cause I HIGHLY doubt SV would sell this game for more then they have invested. I can almost fairly positively say that this IP has a great potential. You are just too hard headed and hate this game with a passion to even consider an other company actually liking the game and taking it up. You want to see this game burn in a blazing fire.
Certain things work properly, agreed. However we also know that systems that you'd think have no interoperation with one another continually are breaking things as they implement new patches.
Also, even if it works -- it doesn't matter. The code has to be usable by multiple developers. I'm telling you how it works in reality -- you have a TEAM that works on the code. So everything that SV wrote has to be readable by EVERY developer. The combat system works, fine. What if they want to add an enhancement? First, the code has to be changed to make sure that variables and namespaces follow a CONSISTENT naming convention. The benefit of that is so that multiple developers can look at their codebase and say "well, every time there's a cnt variable, I know there's a counter". It makes the health of the project on a long term easier to maintain and update. This comes down to bottom line, because maintenance is a cost that you have to look at. Then they have to make sure that all the code is separated out properly -- so let's say you have something that calculates damage. It has to be put into object oriented code, so that the pieces can be worked on individually, so that when you make a change to one object, all the dependent functions take full advantage of that automatically without recreating more work. Again, for a developer with NO experience, this is *never* the way they work. These are habits you learn over time and with a lot of mistakes.
Now you can chalk this up to "You hate the game" talking, but the reality is that my job function requires me to know things about this. As I said, I've been involved in my company's mergers and acquisitions, and then I get software, or systems that I have to support, and come up with a financial model to support them. After you crunch the numbers, the crappy code from small companies usually gets tossed and re-written, because it's cheaper that way, and we can do the documentation for the system along the way. Right now what you think is that "Oh, it's so easy because so much works so well", but the reality is that is actually irrelevant, and when you are buying software from another firm, you need to understand the logic, the procedure, the code, and the purpose of every variable, function, sub, namespace, and procedure call. And as I said, since nobody in SV has had ANY experience writing ANY software, EVER, the odds of them having it done in a professional manner without any training or preparation, is virtually zero.
But I suppose you can hope that they did it all right so that somebody swoops in and saves the project. But from my experience, and given what I have seen with their patcher and it throwing out errors in Swedish, tells me everything that I needed to know about their coding standards and knowledge. It's a joke.
I was saying this since the beginning of Beta. I tried to get my money back from them multiple times BEFORE it was too late. They completely ignored me. That was a sure enough sign that I wasn't even going to take a tiny peek at this game after a year or so. That's after I had already decided that they went about this game all wrong. The ideas were great. The implementation, terrible.
This exact same review could have been given to Ultima Online the first 8 weeks the game was released. This same review could have been given to Eve online the first 8 weeks the game was released. The same review could have been given to Darkfall the first 8 months the game was released.
This hit piece on Mortal Online simply does not do it justice. Notice how the reviewer "claims" she's into pvp but never mentions any actual pvp experiances in game. She only mentioned one experiance she had when she tried and failed to kill a bugged out naked player. I'
This review REALLY reminds me of the Eurogamer review of Darkfall a few months after it was released.
[Mod Edit]
Never trust a screenshot or a youtube video without a version stamp!
I tried on 3 separate occasions to get this game running with no success whatsoever. I would have liked to have given the game a go, but having a full plate with Darkfall and EVE, I wasn't about to start pulling out hairs just to get the thing to launch.
Very few games have stumped me over the years, this was one of those rarities.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
And so it begins.
Not even close.
In the Eurogamer review the reviewer provided no specifics and the few specifics it named were factually incorrect. Further more the reviewer spent less than 2 hours in the game and never even learned the combat systems (as shown by the chat logs).
AV and SV do not use remately similiar development models.
The AV Model
Comes from a background of services provided to the greek military (Using a traditional QA model)
Each feature must pass QA before release
Server Loading was simulated prior to launch
Beta cycle included all features tested prior to release (except full balancing)
PvE
PvP
City Building
All combat features are in game and work (Melee/Archery/Magic)
All crafting is in game and works
Terrain is un-broken and debugged prior to beta phase
Mob AI works (too well)
World supports MASSIVE battles of hundred of people
Features are reviewed against need prior to release
All descriptions, tool-tips were added prior to release
No dates are promised. Very few general ETA's have been provided but of coruse they are missed.
Patches are delivered when they are ready and patch nnotes are not provided until time of release (no promissed dates/features)
Features are fixed before new ones are added
Hackers are permanently banned
Issues Seen by AV
Integration issues after expantions (issues related to updating the server such as the mob spell cool down issue)
Exploiting walls
de-sync at launch (2 days)
Hackign (seen by all games but AV permanently bans players)
The SV Model
Promise many features on paper
Game is released less then 1 month after major game engine upgrade (read: little testing)
Server load testing???? .... Hahahaha
Basic game mechanics are not complete at launch:
Melee
Magic
Archery
Lack of content (Mob spawns and quests)
Development Focus seems on non-critical aspects before essential gameplay is complete (mob AI, Melee combat, ranged combat, magic):
Corpse dragging? (wtf is this in game when combat doesn't work)
motion blur?
thieving?
Rapid release of new features before old bugs are resolved
Hacking?
SV Issues
Bug intruduciton rate with rapdi patch cycle
Server loading issues
Mob pathing issues
Balance issues with combat mechanics
Content
Terrain
Hacking (SV does not seem to ban)
Yellow - The lines highlighted in yellow are critical to project success. A lack of focus on the essential features before they are sent to QA and released leads to shitty product (which can't be fixed) and projects which fail.
Red - Issues which will prevent you from stabilising yourr code base. if you can't do these you will always be "patching patches"
Blue - Execution basics. These impact your philospohy and indicate your ability to focus on the RIGHT issues first.
These projects use completely differnt development philosophies. One is professional (focus on critical features first and QA) the othe company talks big and doesn't know how to get product out the door.
Yeah. Pretty intense for something from Sere.
Maybe if it wasn't so focused on being a pvp mmorpg it would have been better off?
problem is we dont want to buy a brand new 2011 car that will have same problem as a 1995 car?A well deserved slap, yet as the reviewer I hope that MO will actually improve and survive to deliever. It doesn't cost me anything
I think of Mortal Online more of like a modern Ferrari 458 Italia. Great looks, hella fun to drive, has a dedicated following of fanboys, but has a tendency to sometimes catch on fire.
In the automotive world they have to recall all those cars, bring them into a shop and have a mechanic manually do all the repairs. In Nave all they have to do is implement a couple patches.
Never trust a screenshot or a youtube video without a version stamp!
Ultima Online released 13 years ago...
And you call it a "hit piece".. and your proof is that she didn't list all the prior games she played? Umm.. you are entitled to your own opinions.. but that seems unjustified to me. Most SUBSCRIBERS on the MO forums seem to be saying that it was a fair review...
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/52854-massivly-review.html
Hardly the response one would expect if it was really a "hit piece"...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
But then it would have lost its fanbase too. People waited 8 years for Darkfall to come out, just because they said they were so much like UO. People have been waiting for the next version of UO for many, many years, and SV came along and promised the same thing. Of course, they failed to deliver, and that's what the review seems to point out.
There was a site (basicly 2 guuys) that did a live stream show on MO a few weeks ago. It was pretty hysterical. Think there is a link around here somewhere. But anyhow.. on the subject of THIS review. The feeback it has received has been OVERWHELMINGLY in agreement with it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
No sir, I consider this a hit piece because the article was completely aimed at trashing the game rather than informing. Notice the authors writing style. It almost reads like a comedy instead of a professional opinion of a game. Half of whats mentioned are bugs that have already been patched or are gross exagerations. This is a perfect example of a hit piece.
While Ultima Online may have been release 13 years ago (Mortal Online being it's spiritual successor) I can assure you that the other games I quoted are much newer, Darkfall only having been released now for a little over a year. While MO may have a few bugs compared to DF's release it's a flawless gem.
No game company can launch an MMO without bugs. Even HUGE software companies like FUNCOM tried with AOC and failed horribly at launch. Independent companies like StarVault and adventurine naturally have an even harder time. Starvault in my opinion did a great job as an indy development company in making the sandbox game everyone wanted but no game major publisher dared to develope.
All serious PVP players out there should note that the authors PVP experiance is limited to trying to kill 1 naked harvestor. Wow.. She claims to play the game for weeks, yet here most memorable pvp experiance is a failed attempt to kill a naked harvestor. This should tell you something.
I've read through the link you posted
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/52854-massivly-review.html
I find that MOST subscribers on the MO forums seem to be saying this was "Typical reviewers selective memory". I suggest that MMORPG forum goers read through this link and decide for themselves.
[Mod Edit]
Never trust a screenshot or a youtube video without a version stamp!
Ad hominem at its finest.
Whch ones?
You write like someone who has never done software development, much less one who has worked on multi-million loc codebases inherited from other developers. It it not so simple a matter as simply building on what is there.
Complex software development is more like adding floors onto a tall skyscraper. If the foundations of the building and the lower floors are structurally unsound, and the electrical and plumbing hookups terminate in a confusing maze 100 floors below, you cannot add a new floor on top at an acceptable level of qualtiy. You must break down some or all of the building and rebuild it soundly in order to progress. Knocking down all the building and then starting from scratch will cost more than just starting from scratch. Knocking down half of the building while leaving the other half intact and livable will require great expense in precision demolition, analysis, and planning, also costing you more than just starting over.
This is technical debt, a principle eminently familiar to software developers.
Can you perhaps backup that claim? Did you adventure with her? Did she state that her experience was limited to trying to kill 1 naked harvester? If so.. I missed that part...
Prior to the review several people (including fans) commented on how they were looking forward to the review because the reviewer was balanced and fair....
Still.. you are entitled to your own opinion. Most seem to agree with the review so far though...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018