MASSIVELY REVIEWS MORTAL ONLINE: "STAY AWAY. STAY FAR AWAY."

Slapshot1188

Review was just linked on BluesNews...

Kyleran

Darkfall had a terrible launch, but MO managed to somehow neatly step under that bar without having to bend over.

Its not really fair to compare the quality (or lack thereof) of DF at launch to that of MO's, its pretty clear that SV's offering is particularly sub-par even when allowing for its recent launch and Indy status.

But, if they can keep it running and improving it, perhaps one day it will be a successful game like UO or EVE.

Toferio

Originally posted by Kyleran

Darkfall had a terrible launch, but MO managed to somehow neatly step under that bar without having to bend over.

I would not even call MOs launch for a launch.. they just slapped a "we are open" sign on the game. Usualy games have quite significant changes between closed beta and launch version, or atleast a significant increase in players playing the game. In MOs case, everyone who bought the game already was in closed beta, so the population increased really insignificantly and absolutely no changes were made from beta client to release one. They didnt have to open the game shop, patch the game, make sure people get preorder items or face significantly increased load on the servers.

So yeah, no wonder the launch was pretty ok.

thorppes

You mean like the engine update they had right before launch? That was pretty big.

Toferio

Originally posted by thorppes

You mean like the engine update they had right before launch? That was pretty big.

I meant content/feature wise to be honest, not code wise. Either way, the engine update was part of the beta and several weeks before launch I think.

BuniontToes

Releasing a game weeks after a MAJOR engine change doesn't sound smart to me.

osmunda

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

..Now some few figure they better try and discredit her.  Luckily the vast majority of folks know that she has more credibility than random internet guy #556224.  Comments on her review are running near 95% positive. 

 And you, personally, are responsible for 6% of them. (5/82).  Perhaps the people who like MO feel there is no point trying to post one paragraph to show a different POV vs. 3 pages of review. 

eyeswideopen

Originally posted by osmunda

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

..Now some few figure they better try and discredit her.  Luckily the vast majority of folks know that she has more credibility than random internet guy #556224.  Comments on her review are running near 95% positive. 

 And you, personally, are responsible for 6% of them. (5/82).  Perhaps the people who like MO feel there is no point trying to post one paragraph to show a different POV vs. 3 pages of review. 

No, I think it's because the fans of MO realize they can't come up with a legitimate counter argument to contradict Sera.

The only real argument the fans have come up with is "But it's going to be better in the future!".

Yeah, EVERY game has "potential". EVERY game is going to be better in the future, or at least its devs say or said before it died.

Garvon3

Originally posted by BuniontToes

Releasing a game weeks after a MAJOR engine change doesn't sound smart to me.

Well they had already delayed it like, 6 times, and were getting lawsuits from people because they sold pre orders a year in advance and didn't release the game. 

DLangley

Lets stay on the topic of the thread. Thanks.

Toferio

Originally posted by osmunda

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

..Now some few figure they better try and discredit her.  Luckily the vast majority of folks know that she has more credibility than random internet guy #556224.  Comments on her review are running near 95% positive. 

 Perhaps the people who like MO feel there is no point trying to post one paragraph to show a different POV vs. 3 pages of review. 

[Mod Edit]

 I see every day complains in IRC, and lately none except 2-3 people is defending the game anymore. As soon as a patch is announced people go "Cool, wonder what they will break this time", and none disagrees with such statements. The overall attitude towards the game dropped quite significantly to the negative lately. So no, I do think this is the case of fans knowing that the author is right and not that they dont bother trying to prove otherwise.

Hodo

Originally posted by Toferio

<snip>

[Mod Edit]

 I see every day complains in IRC, and lately none except 2-3 people is defending the game anymore. As soon as a patch is announced people go "Cool, wonder what they will break this time", and none disagrees with such statements. The overall attitude towards the game dropped quite significantly to the negative lately. So no, I do think this is the case of fans knowing that the author is right and not that they dont bother trying to prove otherwise.

 

This is sad but true.    Out of a channel of 200 people on it, maybe 50 are playing the game, others are playing other games or not even online.   Average game population is around 150-300.    Rarely more than that during peak times on the weekends.

eyeswideopen

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by Paragus1

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

 

Several issues encountered with MO could probably been avoided with enough experience in the genre. It is a shame, cause the folks that seem to like it could probably help this game grow ala EVE. This terrible launch might be too much to overcome.

There's an idea. Maybe Starvault should just make the game open source and let the players build the damn game. The players can't do any worse than the devs, and considering it was a player who made a patcher that worked the first time out without needing 50 retries, I'd say the users are already a step ahead of the devs.

ChinaCat

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by Paragus1

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

If only mmorpg.com would right REAL reviews like this, we wouldn't have half of the mediocre or worse mmos listed on this site now.

I was going to write a review for this game.  I'm not really one tp pull punches when it comes to reviewing various aspects of MMOs, but frankly I could not get the game to work.   I think i downloaded it upwards of 6 times during the various stages of the beta process, but no luck.

Paragus.... You should of put a disclaimer in your statement, and indicated this doesnt apply to DF....which you did your best used car salesmen impression to get the readers of MMORPG.com to buy Tasos's clusterfrack.

@Moaky07 - If that's how you feel, actually put your mind to work where your sentiments are.   Go make a thread and critique Paragus' reviews/blogs and detail your opinions where they differ from what Paragus writes.   That would be helpful, constructive and the type of post one could take seriously and potentially lead to a good discussion.  Any thing short of that is easily dismissed since many of us who have played MMO's for years find Paragus to be excellent in fairly approaching a game, taking the time to engage in all aspects of it that result in the type of overall experience one would hope a person writing about a game would be willing to undertake..

Cheers -CC

osmunda

Just for a bit of perspective, the review in question is now buried on page 4 of Massively.com

google search for "mortal online review" -- page 2 if you count the MO forum thread http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/52854-massivly-review.html about the article or http://www.massively.com/2009/06/26/mortal-online-limited-edition-available-june-29-first-game-revi/  or this thread (the one we are in)     Not sure if seraphina has some internet cone of silence but I didn't see the review within the 1st 10 pages

 

Bing doesn't  seem to show a much better performance

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by osmunda

Just for a bit of perspective, the review in question is now buried on page 4 of Massively.com

google search for "mortal online review" -- page 2 if you count the MO forum thread http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/52854-massivly-review.html about the article or http://www.massively.com/2009/06/26/mortal-online-limited-edition-available-june-29-first-game-revi/  or this thread (the one we are in)     Not sure if seraphina has some internet cone of silence but I didn't see the review within the 1st 10 pages

 

Bing doesn't  seem to show a much better performance

 Instead of talking about the content of the review we are going to discuss it's placement in a google search page?

 

Sheeezzz..

 

Heck by that standard the #1 topic that comes up is this one...   http://www.brighthub.com/video-games/mmo/reviews/67137.aspx

 

PS if you type Mortal Online Article it's in the top 5...   what does that prove?  Nothing as far as I know.

Let's stick to the actual review though and not the workings of random search engine #8....

osmunda

@slapshot: 

Or how about we talk about the game?

My only point was that it's unlikely that anyone who is not already knowledgeable about MO will come across this article.  I've already given my opinion on the article http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3763225#3763225 and it's unlikely that any participant in this thread will be persuaded or learn anything they don't already know (or think they know) about the game.

Here's some of the article to discuss... 

"The game's crafting system and combat systems are two of its greatest, most innovative systems. Crafting features a huge number of options, thanks to items that can be created with a wide variety of materials in different combinations. You control what a weapon or item is made out of, how much material is used to create that item, and what different types of materials support it. This lets crafters experiment with how they want to make their items, and how those materials affect the outcome of the item.

Combat has a very similar level of depth. Instead of going for an overall armor class on a character, the game registers different hitboxes all over the character. All of these hitboxes, such as the left and right legs, left and right arms, torso, and head have to be armored separately. This allows you to perhaps choose to wear more protective armor on larger parts of the body, and less armor in other places.

However, should you be hit in a less armored spot, you will take more damage. The system will check to see where strikes hit in the various hitboxes, and it will even go so far to calculate hitting an enemy with your blade or the hilt of your sword. An Elder Scrolls style combat system also allows different types of attacks, such as left or right slashes with different movements, double tapping directional arrows to feint in a direction quickly, active blocking, or alternate attack styles, such as stabbing with your sword instead of slashing"

"Their upcoming development list is, quite honestly, staggering. But, in all good conscience, I can't talk about a game's "proposed and upcoming features." Development road maps are subject to change, for better and for worse, and I can't recommend a game based on features that don't currently exist."

I believe that the article is an honest assessment of the game (thought I disagree with that assessment) and that her "final thought on the game at this point in time"  is a reasonable recommendation for someone who knows nothing more about the game than what sera presented. I just think its becoming less and less likely that such a person will come across the review since it is so far down on massively's web site and so far down any search for a review.

P.S. judging by the auto complete feature on google, there are more people searching for "mortal online free trial" than "mortal online article" . "article " just isn't that popular as a search term.

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by osmunda

 

I believe that the article is an honest assessment of the game (thought I disagree with that assessment) and that her "final thought on the game at this point in time"  is a reasonable recommendation for someone who knows nothing more about the game than what sera presented.

 See we agree.   We both agree with her recommendation to "Stay Away. Stay Far Away".

osmunda

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

 See we agree.   We both agree with her recommendation to "Stay Away. Stay Far Away".

actually no. I edited in the emphasis to show how i disagree

UnseelieCour

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

There's an idea. Maybe Starvault should just make the game open source and let the players build the damn game. The players can't do any worse than the devs, and considering it was a player who made a patcher that worked the first time out without needing 50 retries, I'd say the users are already a step ahead of the devs.

That wouldn't be a half bad idea, except it is built on a licensed engine and network solution. I have a funny feeling Epic may have something to say about this. I'm not sure SV licensed the source code from Epic, given they are always waiting on updates to the network code/engine to improve the game. But then again, I heard from somewhere that they did. Don't think they've been doing many (if any) tweaks to the engine though (for reasons I'll leave to speculation) so... yeah... I'd better stop there.

Slapshot1188

I think this guy sums it up well (and he was/is? a huge supporter of the game):

 

 

Today, 17:16	#28 (permalink)
Shinzon vbmenu_register("postmenu_1013825", true); Senior Member     Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario	As I said; that review was one of the more fair ones I have seen of MO; those things happen, and maybe we just got used to them, but to a new player they will stick out like sore thumbs. __________________ Aegis Imperium

 

His point is well taken.  Even though the game is only 3 months old.  Some people have been playing for over a year and take a lot of stuff for granted / have just gotten used to overlooking certain things.   For most people just starting a new game.. something like skillbooks that say "coming soon" instead of having a description can be a huge issue.  Same thing with character creation racial descriptions and starter town descriptions.  Simple things.. but potentially HUGE to a new player who isn't expecting to see "coming soon" 3 months after release...

davmac22

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

I think this guy sums it up well (and he was/is? a huge supporter of the game):

 

 

Today, 17:16	#28 (permalink)
Shinzon vbmenu_register("postmenu_1013825", true); Senior Member     Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario	As I said; that review was one of the more fair ones I have seen of MO; those things happen, and maybe we just got used to them, but to a new player they will stick out like sore thumbs. __________________ Aegis Imperium

 

His point is well taken.  Even though the game is only 3 months old.  Some people have been playing for over a year and take a lot of stuff for granted / have just gotten used to overlooking certain things.   For most people just starting a new game.. something like skillbooks that say "coming soon" instead of having a description can be a huge issue.  Same thing with character creation racial descriptions and starter town descriptions.  Simple things.. but potentially HUGE to a new player who isn't expecting to see "coming soon" 3 months after release...

 

 

I remember that guy, he was a huge supporter.  He is finally starting to see the reality after his fan goggles wore off

davmac22

I want to know why the fans are attacking the girl that made this review as being a "carebear" when she has made many other great reviews in the past criticizing other "carebear" mmos

osmunda

Originally posted by davmac22

I want to know why the fans are attacking the girl that made this review as being a "carebear" when she has made many other great reviews in the past criticizing other "carebear" mmos

Care to provide any links?

I've done page searches on the original article, all the comments on the original article, the thread about the article on the MO forumshttp://www.mortalonline.com/forums/52853-massivelys-take-mortal-online.html and this thread (the one we are currently in) and have found two people using the term carebear.  

Here are the quotes:

Seraphina Brennan is the weekly writer of Anti-Aliased who is anticipating the hate mail with bated breath. Bring on the "carebear n00b" remarks!

and

I want to know why the fans are attacking the girl that made this review as being a "carebear" when she has made many other great reviews in the past criticizing other "carebear" mmos

There was a remark in the comments section of her article a couple days ago, but it was also a bit sexist and got deleted.. Even if we include that one, it still doesn't justify using the plural, much less a generalized statement about a class of people.

davmac22

Originally posted by osmunda

 

There was a remark in the comments section of her article a couple days ago, but it was also a bit sexist and got deleted.. Even if we include that one, it still doesn't justify using the plural, much less a generalized statement about a class of people.

 

That was a fan who posted that as they have to defend Mortal at all costs