SE blows when it comes to games in general now cuz all their games have been complete shit after square merged with enix. they need to go back to squaresoft.
I've always disliked Enix, even back on the NES/SNES days, so with my bias I can't help but agree that I've found more problems in their games ever since that merge.
Still, it doesn't keep me from enjoying this one or the others, so don't lump me into that extreme.
As for the on topic matter, I can't help but admit that the game is not being as well received as hoped, but it doesn't make it a total failure. Changes and expansions will come to this game, and while it's going to definitely have a rocky launch and welcoming, I think over time along with the tweaks and fixes, the subscription numbers and overall health will slowly and steadily climb. I don't really forsee a mass exodus like the other games mentioned in this thread, but it's all really guess work anyways.
Yeah but probably the changes will come too late to do any noticeable effect, because the year is ending and with it comes many AAA launchs.
As much asi would love to play GW2 its are no where close to release date. And by the time GW2, SWTOR etc will release FFXIV would have improved a lot. SE listens to player base and market changes that are coming in new patch withing next week or so is a good start.
i will probably sub both GW2 and FFXIV. I am a huge GW addict. Still play it 3 to 4 times a week.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
Technically, this is an average, well rounded game.
Lol. Technically, huh?
I hate to do it beacause I like the game alot and I can already read what people will say when I point it out but if you plug that link into google chrome and hit translate you'll find that of the 42 reviews only about 10 were actually posted after Sept 22 when the CE came out.
Edit: actually upon looking again it looks like that review is for the Standard edition which is due out tomorrow.
I'm sorry but this is a bad behavior from a company and it should be criticized. You usually want to maintain a hype around your game by allowing the journalists to publish their review.
It wouldn't look too good if Ford or Toyota asked car magazines to wait 4 to 6 weeks before reviewing their new models to allow them some time for fine tuning, or telling those writing bad reviews that they don't understand their product or they are not part of the target demographic.
The MMO industry is about the only one that its consumers allow corporations to publish unfinished or defective products. Note that I'm saying this in a general way; I can't comment on FFXIV since I decided to give it 6 to 12 months to mature properly before even thinking about trying it.
I hate to do it beacause I like the game alot and I can already read what people will say when I point it out but if you plug that link into google chrome and hit translate you'll find that of the 42 reviews only about 10 were actually posted after Sept 22 when the CE came out.
Edit: actually upon looking again it looks like that review is for the Standard edition which is due out tomorrow.
What link? Unless I'm missing something, I don't see a link in birdycephon's post. Unless it's a link that was placed earlier in the thread?
Also, standard and CE are the same anyways. Unless people want to include what they received in the CE along with their user reviews.
I hate to do it beacause I like the game alot and I can already read what people will say when I point it out but if you plug that link into google chrome and hit translate you'll find that of the 42 reviews only about 10 were actually posted after Sept 22 when the CE came out.
Edit: actually upon looking again it looks like that review is for the Standard edition which is due out tomorrow.
What link? Unless I'm missing something, I don't see a link in birdycephon's post. Unless it's a link that was placed earlier in the thread?
Also, standard and CE are the same anyways. Unless people want to include what they received in the CE along with their user reviews.
Vox populi, vox dei... so decided by the jury that FF XIV is officially declared as another failed MMO.
Case closed. Next.
Last I checked, mob rule was a poor substitute for justice.
We keep telling you people this, but you don't really listen: Final Fantasy XI was more or less the same at release (not that we Americans saw it until 2 years after its release). It turned out just fine. More than fine, it beat EverQuest in overall subscriptions, something few other MMORPGs have ever done.
I can tell you right now that, despite the bleating of those poor schmucks who just can't bear the idea of applying themselves in anything other than the typical PC casual-friendly MMORPG, Final Fantasy XIV is alive and well. Logging in right now, 9:50pm PST, I'm seeing 1,954 players. It's been at or above 2000 during prime time since the pre-order head start started, and seeing how it's slightly past prime time right now, it still is. From what I've seen so far, it's a fair assumption that the game is keeping the greater bulk of its players.
So here we have a thriving playerbase with server populations on par with the average successful MMORPG. That would mean it's in the hundreds of thousands of subscribers. Those aren't World of Warcraft millions, sure, but then nothing else even comes close to WoW in the history of subscription-based MMORPGs (although F2P ones brag they've several times WoW's numbers).
Lets say we had 200k players, a fairly lowball figure. 200,000 players * ~$13/mo = ~$2.6M/mo. Even if this game carried a ridiculous development budget (e.g. APB's $100 million - FFXIV's budget is unknown, but it's unlikely it was greater than about a quarter of that ) they'd be well on their way to pay it back. This game is making more than enough to survive and prosper. Sorry, if you were hoping this game has failed, you're out of luck.
We keep telling you people this, but you don't really listen: Final Fantasy XI was more or less the same at release (not that we Americans saw it until 2 years after its release). It turned out just fine. More than fine, it beat EverQuest in overall subscriptions, something few other MMORPGs have ever done.
Totally agree with you there. People just need to realize that Square make lackluster releases and therefore, they should learn to lower their expectations. Your expectations are way too high i you believe that 4+ years in development and experience in a previous multi platform mmo would teach them something. Well it doesn't.
"It is my opinion, that my opinions are always right"
We keep telling you people this, but you don't really listen: Final Fantasy XI was more or less the same at release (not that we Americans saw it until 2 years after its release). It turned out just fine. More than fine, it beat EverQuest in overall subscriptions, something few other MMORPGs have ever done.
Totally agree with you there. People just need to realize that Square make lackluster releases and therefore, they should learn to lower their expectations. Your expectations are way too high i you believe that 4+ years in development and experience in a previous multi platform mmo would teach them something. Well it doesn't.
Where did I write their release was lackluster? The word carries a certain suggestion that the release lacks a luster - that it cannot shine. No, truth of the matter is, there are several hundred thousand players that find the game shines quite well.
I wrote it was "more or less the same at release." Maybe there's a little grime covering some of that shine, but we do have a past history that shows they know how to buff it out. A lot of the things people complain about are not dirt at all, but working as intended, rough places only rough because this is where they intend to attach some diamonds.
If you're not one of those several hundred thousand who can enjoy the game, who absolutely refuse to play anything that doesn't absolutely blind you with flawlessness, well, as you've noticed, I'm going to tell you that no game is for everyone. Better luck in 6 months or so.
If you're not one of those several hundred thousand who can enjoy the game, who absolutely refuse to play anything that doesn't absolutely blind you with flawlessness, well, as you've noticed, I'm going to tell you that no game is for everyone. Better luck in 6 months or so.
I see what you did there, and i like it. A tip of my hat to you good sir
We keep telling you people this, but you don't really listen: Final Fantasy XI was more or less the same at release (not that we Americans saw it until 2 years after its release). It turned out just fine. More than fine, it beat EverQuest in overall subscriptions, something few other MMORPGs have ever done.
Totally agree with you there. People just need to realize that Square make lackluster releases and therefore, they should learn to lower their expectations. Your expectations are way too high i you believe that 4+ years in development and experience in a previous multi platform mmo would teach them something. Well it doesn't.
Where did I write their release was lackluster? I wrote it was "more or less the same at release." Truth of the matter is, what's there right now is quite enough for several hundred thousand players to enjoy, what flaws the game has are extremely minor compared to some MMORPGs I've seen at release (anyone else there for Anarchy Online?) If you're not one of those several hundred thousand who can enjoy the game... well, no game is for everyone. Better luck in 6 months or so.
I was there for anarchy online's launch, or should I say "not there" as you pretty much couldn't log into the game for an entire month. That said, they gave everyone that month and an extra month of play afterwards for free: not to mention that there was content in the game along with the game crippling bugs. Unfortunately it's easier to fix bugs in the coding than to create content(which requires both new coding and bug removal) and FFXIV needs to overcome both obstacles.
Funcom really busted their asses to get that game in working order and they stayed in constant contact with the playerbase via the game forums. I distinctly remember developers having long dialogues with their players about the problems with the game and they had moderators who did a fantastic job of handling tickets. Have you talked to any SE reps in-game or been on their forums(forums, oh forums, wherefore art thou forums)?
Given that SE's facing a more daunting task than funcom had(funcom only had to fix bugs, SE has to really remake their game), do you think they'll reimburse players who spent money and time on a vague shell of a game while they coded in something resembling some content that's more than [kill x rats in 50 minutes]?
Given that SE's facing a more daunting task than funcom had(funcom only had to fix bugs, SE has to really remake their game)
Well, if you want to put your expectations at, "I have this dream where Square-Enix completely tears down their game, flips off their existing playerbase of losers, and remakes it into a game made made specifically for me" territory, then yes, Square-Enix has a lot further to go than Funcom did in Anarchy Online.
Personally, I set my expectations at "a little rough around the edges, a bit slower than intended, but otherwise working as intended" territory. Square-Enix isn't planning on remaking the game. They're planning on buffing out the kinks and enabling giant gobs of content we already have on our hard drives but they haven't enabled yet because they want to make sure it works right first.
GW: Anything else you’re working on development-wise?
DK: Tons! Both things that need to be fixed by the release date as well as things we’ll keep an eye on as the game progresses.The big ones are skills, as mentioned above, and server stress. Our biggest priority is that users can play and not worry about stability. After that come bugs, I suppose, and fine-tuning leveling balance.
GW: What new things can we look forward to in the final version?
DK: The big addition will be quests. What you saw in beta was just the tip of the iceberg. Tons of new ones are being added, so I hope everyone is looking forward to that.
GW: So guildleves aren’t the main content?
DK: There’s a lot of talk among the developers about what the main content is. My opinion is that if guildleves were a food, they would be bread or rice. They allow you to progress but don’t become dull or monotonous. You never grow tired of it. From that perspective, guildleves are the focus. But it doesn’t end there. New quests pop up and new items or skills become available, making progression fun. So I think of guildleves more like a staple food than a main course.
GW: When can we ride the chocobos?
DK: You’ll have to wait a little longer. It’s easy enough to make them ridable, but we already have teleportation available from the get-go. Compared to that, a chocobo isn’t very convenient. Therefore, we want to add something more to them, so we’ll probably time it to coincide with other new content (*perhaps as a way of accessing it?).
Given that SE's facing a more daunting task than funcom had(funcom only had to fix bugs, SE has to really remake their game)
Well, if you want to put your expectations at, "I have this dream where Square-Enix completely tears down their game, flips off their existing playerbase of losers, and remakes it into a game made made specifically for me" territory, then yes, Square-Enix has a lot further to go than Funcom did in Anarchy Online.
Personally, I set my expectations at "a little rough around the edges, a bit slower than intended, but otherwise working as intended" territory. Square-Enix isn't planning on remaking the game. They're planning on buffing out the kinks and enabling giant gobs of content we already have on our hard drives but they haven't enabled yet because they want to make sure it works right first.
Hah, you have both a straw-man argument and a complete contradiction in such a small response.
First off, my dream isn't that square enix tear down their game to make a game explicitly for me(this was not my case nor could it be interpreted as such, you are simply being deceptive here). Instead my suggestion would be that SE should FIX their game(bugs and ui) THEN add in the features that drew me and most other gamers in(who, by the way, are disappointed that SE didn't even come close to delivering on SE's own self-declared goals). We weren't drawn to this game to begin with because it was something unrepresentative of what we wanted, instead SE marketed it as having features that we wanted. We being the general populace, the multitude of people who have played this game and are disappointed(and if the statistics and polling have even slight validity to them, they say that the overwhelming majority of people who have played the game feel like they were mislead as to what to expect in the game). Do you really think they are going to feel satisfied about the product they made if the majority of people they wish to purchase it, hate it? They didn't design the game for charity, they want to make money. They got the marketing down but they didn't have the product to back the talk. So that's your straw-man argument refuted.
Secondly, you contradict yourself in the next paragraph where you say the [game is working "as intended" then say that they have "giant gobs of content" that they haven't enabled because it's [not working correctly]]. Wow.
Wow, you have both a straw-man argument and a complete contradiction in such a small response.
First off, my dream isn't that square enix tear down their game to make a game explicitly for me(this was not my case nor could it be interpreted as such, you are simply being deceptive here). Instead it would be that SE should FIX their game THEN add in the features that drew me and most other gamers in(who, by the way, are disappointed that SE didn't even come close to delivering on SE's own self-declared goals). We weren't drawn to this game to begin with because it was something unrepresentative of what we wanted, instead SE marketed it as having features that we wanted. We being the general populace, the multitude of people who have played this game and are disappointed(and if the statistics and polling have even slight validity to them, they say that the overwhelming majority of people who have played the game feel like they were mislead as to what to expect in the game). So that's your straw-man argument refuted.
If you're comparing Anarchy Online's neigh-unplayable game at release to Square-Enix's completely playable game an saying Square-Enix has a longer way to go because they need to "remake their game," then that was no straw-man assertion.
Your vagueries that this game did not meet a goal of being for "the genreal populace, the multitude of people who have wantd to play this game and are disappointed" only reinforces my earlier assertion that you've got this idea that they need to go back and remake it for you.
Sorry, that's simply going to happen:
Your individual opinions about how the game should be are just that - your individual opinion. You believe you represent "the general populace," but I highly doubt you have the omniescence required to prove this. Square-Enix's chosen niche is far more specific than that.
It would be suicide for Square-Enix to radically reinvent Final Fantasy XIV to suit these expectations. Why? Because it would be parellel to The Star Wars Galaxy New Game Experience: they would alienate their existing fans in order to try to appeal to a fanbase which has largely moved on and isn't coming back.
So stop telling yourself that they're going to do this. They're not. That's no straw-man, that's you deluding yourself.
Originally posted by TheEmpyreal
Secondly, you contradict yourself in the next paragraph where you say the [game is working "as intended" then say that they have "giant gobs of content" that they haven't enabled because it's [not working correctly]. Wow.
It's not a contradiction to say that an MMORPG is working as intended and that an MMORPG will have giant cobs of content enabled. It happens all the time every an MMORPG releases a content pack or expansion. That you profess to know MMORPGs and yet did not realize this is more "wow"-worthy, in my opinion
What Final Fantasy XIV was released with was a foundation. It's a pretty sound foundation, albeit not flawless, but the cracks are but hairlines compared to other examples of release-day MMORPGs (which have survived) I've seen. Now, they're doing as any well-informed MMORPG developer would do, and building atop it.
Vox populi, vox dei... so decided by the jury that FF XIV is officially declared as another failed MMO.
Case closed. Next.
Last I checked, mob rule was a poor substitute for justice.
Actually, this has nothing to do with justice but with people's choice and taste, and could be a good thing.
If the people that aren't interested in how FXIV is now consider FFXIV a failed MMO, then there's no reason for them to give FFXIV any more thought and they can move on to fresher, newer waters.
And as a result everyone is happy.
The gamers that are able to enjoy FFXIV and are playing will be happy.
The gamers that can't stomach FFXIV are also happy, because they're spared annoyances, spending money on the game and they can spend their time better and look forward to in their eyes worthier current or upcoming MMO's.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Actually, this has nothing to do with justice but with people's choice and taste, and could be a good thing.
If the people that aren't interested in how FXIV is now consider FFXIV a failed MMO, then there's no reason for them to give FFXIV any more thought and they can move on to fresher, newer waters.
And as a result everyone is happy.
The gamers that are able to enjoy FFXIV and are playing will be happy.
The gamers that can't stomach FFXIV are also happy, because they're spared annoyances, spending money on the game and they can spend their time better and look forward to in their eyes worthier current or upcoming MMO's.
Looks like a win-win situation.
I think you might have had a few too many if the bulk of your sentiment is, "hey, if you like the game, you're happy because you're playing it. If you don't like the game, you're happy because you're not playing or paying for it."
Or maybe I've had a few too few that I can't go along with that. The thing is, they haven't moved on, they're still here, on the board, ranking on the game. I might feel the same way about World of Warcraft they do about Final Fantasy XIV, but I'm not over there telling people they're wrong to grind their casual-drivel.
Anyway, I guess that's ore or less my point when I'm saying no game is for everyone. The game developer who tasks themselves with developing the game everyone plays will end up with a game that no one will want to.
Wow, you have both a straw-man argument and a complete contradiction in such a small response.
First off, my dream isn't that square enix tear down their game to make a game explicitly for me(this was not my case nor could it be interpreted as such, you are simply being deceptive here). Instead it would be that SE should FIX their game THEN add in the features that drew me and most other gamers in(who, by the way, are disappointed that SE didn't even come close to delivering on SE's own self-declared goals). We weren't drawn to this game to begin with because it was something unrepresentative of what we wanted, instead SE marketed it as having features that we wanted. We being the general populace, the multitude of people who have played this game and are disappointed(and if the statistics and polling have even slight validity to them, they say that the overwhelming majority of people who have played the game feel like they were mislead as to what to expect in the game). So that's your straw-man argument refuted.
If you're comparing Anarchy Online's neigh-unplayable game at release to Square-Enix's completely playable game an saying Square-Enix has a longer way to go because they need to "remake their game," then that was no straw-man assertion. Your vagueries that this game did not meet a goal of being for "the genreal populace, the multitude of people who have wantd to play this game and are disappointed" only reinforces my earlier assertion that you've got this idea in your head that you represent the majority and they need to go back and remake it for you.
Sorry, that's simply not the case. Not only are your individual opinions about how the game should be just that - by that I mean your ideal game suits a larger amount of people is only that, an idea in your imagination - but it would be suicide for Square-Enix to radically reinvent Final Fantasy XIV to suit these expectations. Why? Because it would be parellel to The Star Wars Galaxy New Game Experience: they would alienate their existing fans in order to try to appeal to a fanbase which has largely moved on.
So stop telling yourself that they're going to do this. They're not. That's no straw-man, that's you deluding yourself.
Originally posted by TheEmpyreal
Secondly, you contradict yourself in the next paragraph where you say the [game is working "as intended" then say that they have "giant gobs of content" that they haven't enabled because it's [not working correctly]. Wow.
It's not a contradiction to say that an MMORPG is working as intended and that an MMORPG will have giant cobs of content enabled. It happens all the time every an MMORPG releases a content pack or expansion. What Final Fantasy XIV was released with was a foundation. It's a pretty sound foundation, albeit not flawless. Now, they're doing as any well-informed MMORPG developer would do, and building atop it.
I don't have an idea in my head that I represent the general populace. I can take you to many, many websites where you can view firsthand what the populace thinks about this game, this site included. I think you are the one with the delusions as to who is in the majority. For every single positive early review you show me, I can show you 5, easily. that are negative.
Secondly, saying that square enix needs to remake their game is different than saying they need to custom tailor it to my likings. When you make an assertion about what I said that is false just so you can attack that point of view, you have made a straw-man argument, feel free to look it up. I don't personally care for WoW but even if SE chose to ape WoW, they'd have a more successful game than what they have now, just one example of how my desires may not align with something that would be lucrative for SE. An mmo designed specifically for me would probably feature cowboy molemen riding spacedragons but I would not recommend it for the general populace. That said, I have nothing against playing a well designed mmo of any paticular theme or setting.
Third, SE failed to deliver on their own ideas in the same way Tabula Rasa did. An intense engaging storyline is replaced by endless guildleves, unique player customization has been replaced by everyone looking the same, a versatile skillset has been replaced with min/maxing, the promise of a more involved social experience has been replaced by a bunch of people soloing and the most quiet mmo I've ever played. They failed on their own terms. SWG was a different story. Someone with a completely different vision of what the game should be became the head of SOE and cleaned house. They changed the terms for what they considered to be the ultimate goals of SWG. Of course this doesn't even take into consideration the basic fundamentals of any online game, a functioning ui, a competent network, an optimized graphics engine, etc. which again, this game is lacking.
Lastly, you said they had "giant gobs of content" on "our harddrives" already just waiting to be "enabled." That's not an expansion, that's content not working as intended. Otherwise it would be enabled. Feel free to look up "disabled" in the dictionary while you are at it. Maybe hit up contradiction too.
I think you might have had a few too many if the bulk of your sentiment is, "hey, if you like the game, you're happy because you're playing it. If you don't like the game, you're happy because you're not playing or paying for it."
Or maybe I've had a few too few that I can't go along with that.
Anyway, I guess that's ore or less my point when I'm saying no game is for everyone. The game developer who tasks themselves with developing the game everyone plays will end up with a game that no one will want to.
Naah, just a pragmatic outlook that automatically results in a 'glass half full' mentality.
It should be obvious that neither side can convince the other side of the merits of their point of view. And why would it be needed? You'll always have people that like the game they're playing and people that don't like the game others are playing.
Ideally, people that are enjoying the game and are having fun shrug at comments from others that the game isn't fun since it isn't something that has anything to do with them; and people who dislike the game can move on, firm in their conviction that the game was fail and certainly not something that they would enjoy. Ideally, when it comes to both groups, their paths will separate after a while anyway since they have no common interest.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
And for the record, and yes this is a fact, people who bitch and whine post more on internet forums than people who don't bitch and whine. To say that constitutes the majority of everyone is bullshit, plain and simple. All it means is the majority of the people who like to bitch and whine are currently bitching and whining. And if you really think the people that like this game are in the minority, well then why not just leave us the hell alone already? You dont liek the game, we get it. Do we care, nope. Are we ever going to care, nope. Do we think the game needs to be redone completely, nope. Do we think there are things that would be nice to be changed/tweaked, sure - so does everyone that plays every game out there.
Seriously, how many pages of hatred do we have to put up with until all you people that are NOT PLAYING THIS GAME will go away? Just curious here?? And if that question offends or pisses you off, just reply back with what game you play so I can go to your games section and bash on it for the next 4 months, while I'm not playing it.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I don't have an idea in my head that I represent the general populace. I can take you to many, many websites where you can view firsthand what the populace thinks about this game, this site included. I think you are the one with the delusions as to who is in the majority. For every single positive early review you show me, I can show you 5, easily. that are negative.
I think you're deluding yourself if you think "early reviews" written by wholly unobjective fans or non-fans mean squat. In any case, lets take one source right now, the American Amazon reviews, and I actually see a pretty darn even distribution. Gamestop? 55% positive. Lets check out metacritic... okay, I guess we can't do that because they're not there yet. This Japanese website on this thread? Apparently misrepresentive, it's actually quite even.
So, 5 to 1 against? No, you are wrong. You might find some isolated cases, but by and large, it seems that the reviews are even,notoverwhelmingly negative, Maybe you should do your research before you go shooting off your mouth.
Originally posted by TheEmpyreal
Secondly, saying that square enix needs to remake their game is different than saying they need to custom tailor it to my likings. When you make an assertion about what I said that is false just so you can attack that point of view, you have made a straw-man argument, feel free to look it up. I don't personally care for WoW but even if SE chose to ape WoW, they'd have a more successful game than what they have now, just one example of how my desires may not align with something that would be lucrative for SE. An mmo designed specifically for me would probably feature cowboy molemen riding spacedragons but I would not recommend it for the general populace. That said, I have nothing against playing a well designed mmo of any paticular theme or setting.
You apparently think I'm so stupid as to not realize that if you're declaring the game needing to change to suit the general public, what you're really doing is declaring the game needing to change to your needs while using the general public as an excuse. Throwing the "well-designed' card is the same straw man. It's not a bad design, you just don't like how it's designed. There is a difference.
Originally posted by TheEmpyreal
Third, SE failed to deliver on their own ideas in the same way Tabula Rasa did. An intense engaging storyline is replaced by endless guildleves, unique player customization has been replaced by everyone looking the same, the promise of a more involved social experience has been replaced by a bunch of people soloing and the most quiet mmo I've ever played. They failed on their own terms. SWG was a different story. Someone with a completely different vision of what the game should be became the head of SOE and cleaned house. They changed the terms for what they considered to be the ultimate goals of SWG.
Now we're name-dropping Tabula Rasa, I see. Would you like to throw Auto Assault, Earth and Beyond, and APB into the mix while you'e at it? "An intense engaging storeline is replaced with endless guildleves, unique player customization is replaced with everyone looking the same, the promise of a more involved social experience has been replaced by a bunch of epople soloing and the most quiet MMO I have ever played" isn't how I remember Tabula Rasa. This is of course because you're referring to Final Fantasy XIV, which is nothing like Tabula Rasa.
Well, at least these "flaws" as you see them are halfway concrete. Up until now you're just been throwing out massive overgeneralizations. However, even these flaws are destroyed when you look at the details...
Intense engaging storyline - what MMORPG really has that? FFXIV's cutscenes are actually a few steps above the competition.
Promise of a more involved social experience - I've actually had a lot of involving social experiences, granted the lack of group dependance has made it less necessary, but I've certainly interacted with a lot of people within the game, trading, liinkshels, ect.
Most quiet MMO I've ever played - You know, if you play MMORPGs just for the chat, you might want to just boot up mIRC and sit on a chat room all day. At the end of the day, when there's 2000 players on the server, that's plenty of potential social interaciton. Join a linkshell or something.
SWG was far from a different story, as you really do want FFXIV to operate under a completely different vision.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
And for the record, and yes this is a fact, people who bitch and whine post more on internet forums than people who don't bitch and whine. To say that constitutes the majority of everyone is bullshit, plain and simple. All it means is the majority of the people who like to bitch and whine are currently bitching and whining. And if you really think the people that like this game are in the minority, well then why not just leave us the hell alone already? You dont liek the game, we get it. Do we care, nope. Are we ever going to care, nope. Do we think the game needs to be redone completely, nope. Do we think there are things that would be nice to be changed/tweaked, sure - so does everyone that plays every game out there.
Seriously, how many pages of hatred do we have to put up with until all you people that are NOT PLAYING THIS GAME will go away? Just curious here?? And if that question offends or pisses you off, just reply back with what game you play so I can go to your games section and bash on it for the next 4 months, while I'm not playing it.
Don'tcha know, I feel like I've stepped on a kitten everytime someone buys a faulty product and gets stung in the wallet so I'm pretty vocal. Complaining about criticism is just...well complaining.
I'm currently playing FFXIV, feel free to go the the appropriate forum and bash away.
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As much asi would love to play GW2 its are no where close to release date. And by the time GW2, SWTOR etc will release FFXIV would have improved a lot. SE listens to player base and market changes that are coming in new patch withing next week or so is a good start.
i will probably sub both GW2 and FFXIV. I am a huge GW addict. Still play it 3 to 4 times a week.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
to be perfectly honest: To be able to compete with GW 2 they would have to dumb the whole game and pretty much start from scratch.
They don't have to compete. Two very different games with focus on different kind of gameplay.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
I hate to do it beacause I like the game alot and I can already read what people will say when I point it out but if you plug that link into google chrome and hit translate you'll find that of the 42 reviews only about 10 were actually posted after Sept 22 when the CE came out.
Edit: actually upon looking again it looks like that review is for the Standard edition which is due out tomorrow.
I'm sorry but this is a bad behavior from a company and it should be criticized. You usually want to maintain a hype around your game by allowing the journalists to publish their review.
It wouldn't look too good if Ford or Toyota asked car magazines to wait 4 to 6 weeks before reviewing their new models to allow them some time for fine tuning, or telling those writing bad reviews that they don't understand their product or they are not part of the target demographic.
The MMO industry is about the only one that its consumers allow corporations to publish unfinished or defective products. Note that I'm saying this in a general way; I can't comment on FFXIV since I decided to give it 6 to 12 months to mature properly before even thinking about trying it.
What link? Unless I'm missing something, I don't see a link in birdycephon's post. Unless it's a link that was placed earlier in the thread?
Also, standard and CE are the same anyways. Unless people want to include what they received in the CE along with their user reviews.
http://review.rakuten.co.jp/rd/2_213310_13719301_0/
Sorry that was the original link that PMCUBED posted on page one of the thread.
Vox populi, vox dei... so decided by the jury that FF XIV is officially declared as another failed MMO.
Case closed. Next.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
yes
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Last I checked, mob rule was a poor substitute for justice.
We keep telling you people this, but you don't really listen: Final Fantasy XI was more or less the same at release (not that we Americans saw it until 2 years after its release). It turned out just fine. More than fine, it beat EverQuest in overall subscriptions, something few other MMORPGs have ever done.
I can tell you right now that, despite the bleating of those poor schmucks who just can't bear the idea of applying themselves in anything other than the typical PC casual-friendly MMORPG, Final Fantasy XIV is alive and well. Logging in right now, 9:50pm PST, I'm seeing 1,954 players. It's been at or above 2000 during prime time since the pre-order head start started, and seeing how it's slightly past prime time right now, it still is. From what I've seen so far, it's a fair assumption that the game is keeping the greater bulk of its players.
So here we have a thriving playerbase with server populations on par with the average successful MMORPG. That would mean it's in the hundreds of thousands of subscribers. Those aren't World of Warcraft millions, sure, but then nothing else even comes close to WoW in the history of subscription-based MMORPGs (although F2P ones brag they've several times WoW's numbers).
Lets say we had 200k players, a fairly lowball figure. 200,000 players * ~$13/mo = ~$2.6M/mo. Even if this game carried a ridiculous development budget (e.g. APB's $100 million - FFXIV's budget is unknown, but it's unlikely it was greater than about a quarter of that ) they'd be well on their way to pay it back. This game is making more than enough to survive and prosper. Sorry, if you were hoping this game has failed, you're out of luck.
Totally agree with you there. People just need to realize that Square make lackluster releases and therefore, they should learn to lower their expectations. Your expectations are way too high i you believe that 4+ years in development and experience in a previous multi platform mmo would teach them something. Well it doesn't.
"It is my opinion, that my opinions are always right"
Where did I write their release was lackluster? The word carries a certain suggestion that the release lacks a luster - that it cannot shine. No, truth of the matter is, there are several hundred thousand players that find the game shines quite well.
I wrote it was "more or less the same at release." Maybe there's a little grime covering some of that shine, but we do have a past history that shows they know how to buff it out. A lot of the things people complain about are not dirt at all, but working as intended, rough places only rough because this is where they intend to attach some diamonds.
If you're not one of those several hundred thousand who can enjoy the game, who absolutely refuse to play anything that doesn't absolutely blind you with flawlessness, well, as you've noticed, I'm going to tell you that no game is for everyone. Better luck in 6 months or so.
I see what you did there, and i like it. A tip of my hat to you good sir
I was there for anarchy online's launch, or should I say "not there" as you pretty much couldn't log into the game for an entire month. That said, they gave everyone that month and an extra month of play afterwards for free: not to mention that there was content in the game along with the game crippling bugs. Unfortunately it's easier to fix bugs in the coding than to create content(which requires both new coding and bug removal) and FFXIV needs to overcome both obstacles.
Funcom really busted their asses to get that game in working order and they stayed in constant contact with the playerbase via the game forums. I distinctly remember developers having long dialogues with their players about the problems with the game and they had moderators who did a fantastic job of handling tickets. Have you talked to any SE reps in-game or been on their forums(forums, oh forums, wherefore art thou forums)?
Given that SE's facing a more daunting task than funcom had(funcom only had to fix bugs, SE has to really remake their game), do you think they'll reimburse players who spent money and time on a vague shell of a game while they coded in something resembling some content that's more than [kill x rats in 50 minutes]?
Well, if you want to put your expectations at, "I have this dream where Square-Enix completely tears down their game, flips off their existing playerbase of losers, and remakes it into a game made made specifically for me" territory, then yes, Square-Enix has a lot further to go than Funcom did in Anarchy Online.
Personally, I set my expectations at "a little rough around the edges, a bit slower than intended, but otherwise working as intended" territory. Square-Enix isn't planning on remaking the game. They're planning on buffing out the kinks and enabling giant gobs of content we already have on our hard drives but they haven't enabled yet because they want to make sure it works right first.
GW: Anything else you’re working on development-wise?
DK: Tons! Both things that need to be fixed by the release date as well as things we’ll keep an eye on as the game progresses.The big ones are skills, as mentioned above, and server stress. Our biggest priority is that users can play and not worry about stability. After that come bugs, I suppose, and fine-tuning leveling balance.
GW: What new things can we look forward to in the final version?
DK: The big addition will be quests. What you saw in beta was just the tip of the iceberg. Tons of new ones are being added, so I hope everyone is looking forward to that.
GW: So guildleves aren’t the main content?
DK: There’s a lot of talk among the developers about what the main content is. My opinion is that if guildleves were a food, they would be bread or rice. They allow you to progress but don’t become dull or monotonous. You never grow tired of it. From that perspective, guildleves are the focus. But it doesn’t end there. New quests pop up and new items or skills become available, making progression fun. So I think of guildleves more like a staple food than a main course.
GW: When can we ride the chocobos?
DK: You’ll have to wait a little longer. It’s easy enough to make them ridable, but we already have teleportation available from the get-go. Compared to that, a chocobo isn’t very convenient. Therefore, we want to add something more to them, so we’ll probably time it to coincide with other new content (*perhaps as a way of accessing it?).
(Source)
Hah, you have both a straw-man argument and a complete contradiction in such a small response.
First off, my dream isn't that square enix tear down their game to make a game explicitly for me(this was not my case nor could it be interpreted as such, you are simply being deceptive here). Instead my suggestion would be that SE should FIX their game(bugs and ui) THEN add in the features that drew me and most other gamers in(who, by the way, are disappointed that SE didn't even come close to delivering on SE's own self-declared goals). We weren't drawn to this game to begin with because it was something unrepresentative of what we wanted, instead SE marketed it as having features that we wanted. We being the general populace, the multitude of people who have played this game and are disappointed(and if the statistics and polling have even slight validity to them, they say that the overwhelming majority of people who have played the game feel like they were mislead as to what to expect in the game). Do you really think they are going to feel satisfied about the product they made if the majority of people they wish to purchase it, hate it? They didn't design the game for charity, they want to make money. They got the marketing down but they didn't have the product to back the talk. So that's your straw-man argument refuted.
Secondly, you contradict yourself in the next paragraph where you say the [game is working "as intended" then say that they have "giant gobs of content" that they haven't enabled because it's [not working correctly]]. Wow.
If you're comparing Anarchy Online's neigh-unplayable game at release to Square-Enix's completely playable game an saying Square-Enix has a longer way to go because they need to "remake their game," then that was no straw-man assertion.
Your vagueries that this game did not meet a goal of being for "the genreal populace, the multitude of people who have wantd to play this game and are disappointed" only reinforces my earlier assertion that you've got this idea that they need to go back and remake it for you.
Sorry, that's simply going to happen:
Your individual opinions about how the game should be are just that - your individual opinion. You believe you represent "the general populace," but I highly doubt you have the omniescence required to prove this. Square-Enix's chosen niche is far more specific than that.
It would be suicide for Square-Enix to radically reinvent Final Fantasy XIV to suit these expectations. Why? Because it would be parellel to The Star Wars Galaxy New Game Experience: they would alienate their existing fans in order to try to appeal to a fanbase which has largely moved on and isn't coming back.
So stop telling yourself that they're going to do this. They're not. That's no straw-man, that's you deluding yourself.
It's not a contradiction to say that an MMORPG is working as intended and that an MMORPG will have giant cobs of content enabled. It happens all the time every an MMORPG releases a content pack or expansion. That you profess to know MMORPGs and yet did not realize this is more "wow"-worthy, in my opinion
What Final Fantasy XIV was released with was a foundation. It's a pretty sound foundation, albeit not flawless, but the cracks are but hairlines compared to other examples of release-day MMORPGs (which have survived) I've seen. Now, they're doing as any well-informed MMORPG developer would do, and building atop it.
Actually, this has nothing to do with justice but with people's choice and taste, and could be a good thing.
If the people that aren't interested in how FXIV is now consider FFXIV a failed MMO, then there's no reason for them to give FFXIV any more thought and they can move on to fresher, newer waters.
And as a result everyone is happy.
The gamers that are able to enjoy FFXIV and are playing will be happy.
The gamers that can't stomach FFXIV are also happy, because they're spared annoyances, spending money on the game and they can spend their time better and look forward to in their eyes worthier current or upcoming MMO's.
Looks like a win-win situation.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I think you might have had a few too many if the bulk of your sentiment is, "hey, if you like the game, you're happy because you're playing it. If you don't like the game, you're happy because you're not playing or paying for it."
Or maybe I've had a few too few that I can't go along with that. The thing is, they haven't moved on, they're still here, on the board, ranking on the game. I might feel the same way about World of Warcraft they do about Final Fantasy XIV, but I'm not over there telling people they're wrong to grind their casual-drivel.
Anyway, I guess that's ore or less my point when I'm saying no game is for everyone. The game developer who tasks themselves with developing the game everyone plays will end up with a game that no one will want to.
I don't have an idea in my head that I represent the general populace. I can take you to many, many websites where you can view firsthand what the populace thinks about this game, this site included. I think you are the one with the delusions as to who is in the majority. For every single positive early review you show me, I can show you 5, easily. that are negative.
Secondly, saying that square enix needs to remake their game is different than saying they need to custom tailor it to my likings. When you make an assertion about what I said that is false just so you can attack that point of view, you have made a straw-man argument, feel free to look it up. I don't personally care for WoW but even if SE chose to ape WoW, they'd have a more successful game than what they have now, just one example of how my desires may not align with something that would be lucrative for SE. An mmo designed specifically for me would probably feature cowboy molemen riding spacedragons but I would not recommend it for the general populace. That said, I have nothing against playing a well designed mmo of any paticular theme or setting.
Third, SE failed to deliver on their own ideas in the same way Tabula Rasa did. An intense engaging storyline is replaced by endless guildleves, unique player customization has been replaced by everyone looking the same, a versatile skillset has been replaced with min/maxing, the promise of a more involved social experience has been replaced by a bunch of people soloing and the most quiet mmo I've ever played. They failed on their own terms. SWG was a different story. Someone with a completely different vision of what the game should be became the head of SOE and cleaned house. They changed the terms for what they considered to be the ultimate goals of SWG. Of course this doesn't even take into consideration the basic fundamentals of any online game, a functioning ui, a competent network, an optimized graphics engine, etc. which again, this game is lacking.
Lastly, you said they had "giant gobs of content" on "our harddrives" already just waiting to be "enabled." That's not an expansion, that's content not working as intended. Otherwise it would be enabled. Feel free to look up "disabled" in the dictionary while you are at it. Maybe hit up contradiction too.
Naah, just a pragmatic outlook that automatically results in a 'glass half full' mentality.
It should be obvious that neither side can convince the other side of the merits of their point of view. And why would it be needed? You'll always have people that like the game they're playing and people that don't like the game others are playing.
Ideally, people that are enjoying the game and are having fun shrug at comments from others that the game isn't fun since it isn't something that has anything to do with them; and people who dislike the game can move on, firm in their conviction that the game was fail and certainly not something that they would enjoy. Ideally, when it comes to both groups, their paths will separate after a while anyway since they have no common interest.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You two done yet? Seriously.
And for the record, and yes this is a fact, people who bitch and whine post more on internet forums than people who don't bitch and whine. To say that constitutes the majority of everyone is bullshit, plain and simple. All it means is the majority of the people who like to bitch and whine are currently bitching and whining. And if you really think the people that like this game are in the minority, well then why not just leave us the hell alone already? You dont liek the game, we get it. Do we care, nope. Are we ever going to care, nope. Do we think the game needs to be redone completely, nope. Do we think there are things that would be nice to be changed/tweaked, sure - so does everyone that plays every game out there.
Seriously, how many pages of hatred do we have to put up with until all you people that are NOT PLAYING THIS GAME will go away? Just curious here?? And if that question offends or pisses you off, just reply back with what game you play so I can go to your games section and bash on it for the next 4 months, while I'm not playing it.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I think you're deluding yourself if you think "early reviews" written by wholly unobjective fans or non-fans mean squat. In any case, lets take one source right now, the American Amazon reviews, and I actually see a pretty darn even distribution. Gamestop? 55% positive. Lets check out metacritic... okay, I guess we can't do that because they're not there yet. This Japanese website on this thread? Apparently misrepresentive, it's actually quite even.
So, 5 to 1 against? No, you are wrong. You might find some isolated cases, but by and large, it seems that the reviews are even, not overwhelmingly negative, Maybe you should do your research before you go shooting off your mouth.
You apparently think I'm so stupid as to not realize that if you're declaring the game needing to change to suit the general public, what you're really doing is declaring the game needing to change to your needs while using the general public as an excuse. Throwing the "well-designed' card is the same straw man. It's not a bad design, you just don't like how it's designed. There is a difference.
Now we're name-dropping Tabula Rasa, I see. Would you like to throw Auto Assault, Earth and Beyond, and APB into the mix while you'e at it? "An intense engaging storeline is replaced with endless guildleves, unique player customization is replaced with everyone looking the same, the promise of a more involved social experience has been replaced by a bunch of epople soloing and the most quiet MMO I have ever played" isn't how I remember Tabula Rasa. This is of course because you're referring to Final Fantasy XIV, which is nothing like Tabula Rasa.
Well, at least these "flaws" as you see them are halfway concrete. Up until now you're just been throwing out massive overgeneralizations. However, even these flaws are destroyed when you look at the details...
Intense engaging storyline - what MMORPG really has that? FFXIV's cutscenes are actually a few steps above the competition.
Promise of a more involved social experience - I've actually had a lot of involving social experiences, granted the lack of group dependance has made it less necessary, but I've certainly interacted with a lot of people within the game, trading, liinkshels, ect.
Most quiet MMO I've ever played - You know, if you play MMORPGs just for the chat, you might want to just boot up mIRC and sit on a chat room all day. At the end of the day, when there's 2000 players on the server, that's plenty of potential social interaciton. Join a linkshell or something.
SWG was far from a different story, as you really do want FFXIV to operate under a completely different vision.
Eh? You're addressing me? I merely posted 2 posts here
Also, no hate in them, they were pretty neutral.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Don'tcha know, I feel like I've stepped on a kitten everytime someone buys a faulty product and gets stung in the wallet so I'm pretty vocal. Complaining about criticism is just...well complaining.
I'm currently playing FFXIV, feel free to go the the appropriate forum and bash away.