So the review came from a collaboration of reviews from forum posters on a Japanese online game forum.
I just wanted to clarify the source, I mean it doesnt surprise me at all. If you did the same thing here on mmorp.com it would be much worse.
anyhow, is that how the review was compiled? From a bunch of japanese forum posters?
I get the feeling that you're trying to say the review is somehow inaccurate or biased because it was done by the masses. I don't get why people are walking around saying, "Hey, just because 9/10 players says this game is bad doesn't make it bad.". It's almost as if people are saying that the game isn't bad because 1 out of every 500 gamers enjoys it.
The best way to review a game is mass opinion. Sure you may get some unintelligent opinions, but seeing as how this review was compiled using 500 opinions, I'd say it's an accurate one. The game has fun graphics, the rest is broken or appeals to 1/500 people.
Unfortunately the masses are in general unintelligent; Not to mention I would question the validity of those scores since even on this site those that have actually reviewed this game have averaged a 7 out of 10, which is a pretty decent score.
SE can't pomp money forever in false advertising...This has to stop before it will get bad, really bad for them and those who directly favours them. What you are saying, is that masses should spend their own money based on a "intelligent" fellow like you, because they are to stupid to decide for them. All your objective opinions tells that you are to blind or to stupid to see the truth, or else you got well payed for it. All I have said now and before are reactions to people who try to manipulate masses with false advertising...And don't bother to warn me again because I'm trying to clear up things you people hyperbolised because this time I got proof and I'll press charges
Actually, though sure no one will read a post this deep into it but meh I'm drunk.. anyone who has doen even a smidgen of survey based research (and yes even in social sciences it is kinda at teh bottom tier) would tell you not to trst any sort of voulenteer polling or reviews..statistically (and yes no good researcher will dare say full objectively lest they full of crap) the only folks who go out of their way to write reviews are (in MMO forums terms) fanboys or trolls.. You are getting a highly skewed sample. Nothing to say about ff14 as I havent tried it yet though much ado about the generalizability of "reviews" on the net.
Actually, though sure no one will read a post this deep into it but meh I'm drunk.. anyone who has doen even a smidgen of survey based research (and yes even in social sciences it is kinda at teh bottom tier) would tell you not to trst any sort of voulenteer polling or reviews..statistically (and yes no good researcher will dare say full objectively lest they full of crap) the only folks who go out of their way to write reviews are (in MMO forums terms) fanboys or trolls.. You are getting a highly skewed sample. Nothing to say about ff14 as I havent tried it yet though much ado about the generalizability of "reviews" on the net.
I agree with this %100.
Its good to hear what other people are thinking. I can use them as a knowledge gathering tool so there is some value to them but due to the small amount of responses they don't really represent anything other than the personal opinions of a limited user base.
"Don't buy, don't buy, don't buy. This is like throwing your money away. You would be better off going out to buy Yakiniku. Please give me a refund."
"Horrible performance. I found myself re-making my characters because once my system crashed during the quests you can only take once per 48 hours.
I would click. Wait 10 sec. Then click and wait 10 sec.
The action response time is terrible.
Since I bought it, I guess I have it for 30 days, but I will not be renewing my subscription"
"Graphically the game is great, not incredible by any means, but pretty standard as an MMO. I like the character motion of the mikotte(sp) and Lalafel(sp)
I was assigned as an alpha tester from April and nearly 1/2 of the issues complained about remained in the official release.
This game was the result of a crooked producer who cared nothing of the users input.
This game has no re-play value"
"Aside from graphics this game is ok. Actually bad. Basically a $h**ty game."
While the whole thread is but a digression, bathed in websized fan-hate wars, I find your input very interesting--and that of others who try to give an indication of how the Japanese are receiving the game. So thanks a lot for taking the time to give us feedback here on your digging. And for translating!
May I ask you to link (via post or pm, whichever you prefer) most, if not all of, the websites you usually surf to on the Japanese web? I'm interested in bookmarking them, for future reference, not only on FFXIV but on gaming in general. I only took japanese for a year, so it's next to impossible for me to find the websites, although I can understand the rough ideas once I have a page to read--thanks to google translation too, of course.
Idk, Yahoo Japan under the gaming section. Gamespot has a Japanese version. If I think of a particular game, I just google it and check the first few pages of results ( in Japanese ).
I prefer Japanese TV / drama's over their games Although they make some pretty good ones. I.e. Mario games, Zelda games, FF games, etc.
oh, ok. thx for the method, then.
btw, I'll follow you on prefering their TV to their games, at least since the PS2 was introduced
Of course the japanese have the same issues with the game as we do. The justification that some peoples use about how japanese like different kind of games makes me laugh. Western players loved FFVII, VIII, X, tactics ect. I loved a shitload of japanese games, from capcom games to gran turismo, mgs ... When a game is fun is fun for americans, europeans, japanese and whoever else. So pls don't use that excuse anymore.
Of course the japanese have the same issues with the game as we do. The justification that some peoples use about how japanese like different kind of games makes me laugh. Western players loved FFVII, VIII, X, tactics ect. I loved a shitload of japanese games, from capcom games to gran turismo, mgs ... When a game is fun is fun for americans, europeans, japanese and whoever else. So pls don't use that excuse anymore.
Yup. Also should be added that when it comes to "gaming", "fun", "entertainment", most humans are indeed roughly equivalent. it's a cognitive process of pleasure. True, cultural differences play a lot in expectations/appreciation, such as humour (very localized indeed) or "respect", etc. Yet, the real fun you get in a game is often very simple: how "good" it is to press a button and see subsequent actions unfold, how "logically" it responds to your choices, and so on.
The rest, from story to graphics passing by music and stuff, is much more of a "shell", a "container" for the raw cognitive treats that are making the core programming of the game. Basic actions, such as moving, hitting, dodging, using rules to perform better, those are the bread'n'butter of the pleasure that video gaming brings to our bodies and brains.
Think of how incredibly fun some simple games can be. Genres which, as a matter of fact, japanese devs have become masters at, such a Nintendo or Konami, Capcom and Namco prove to the market on a regular basis for some 20+ years now.
Now look at incredibly complex games: none is "so good" if the basics aren't that good (weak link logic). It's as simple as that. The depth behind some FF titles isn't everything: it has to be fun to play in the first place for that depth to be experienced and, if it is to be a positive aspect, a nice cognitive experience, appreciated by the players.
In the particular case of RPG, Systems design (conceptually, but more importantly in the practical reality of how players use them) is crucial, because in a long-term experience like RPG is, the rewarding processes are the reason why a human brain will stick to the activity. The game needs to fulfil the players' long-term objectives as well as more immediate ones.
TL;DR: "Power is nothing without control" would pretty much sum it up if you replace "power" by any video game genre. It's in the basic actions (moving, performing single actions, menus...) that you will find the real cognitive treat. Complexity or depth cannot be self-sufficient if the aim is to entertain yourself via a video game--or you'd rather read a book, I guess.
Of course the japanese have the same issues with the game as we do. The justification that some peoples use about how japanese like different kind of games makes me laugh. Western players loved FFVII, VIII, X, tactics ect. I loved a shitload of japanese games, from capcom games to gran turismo, mgs ... When a game is fun is fun for americans, europeans, japanese and whoever else. So pls don't use that excuse anymore.
This is because westerners categorize Japanese with all the other asians. Japanese are very different people from other asian countries and their cultures aren't even close.
So the review came from a collaboration of reviews from forum posters on a Japanese online game forum.
I just wanted to clarify the source, I mean it doesnt surprise me at all. If you did the same thing here on mmorp.com it would be much worse.
anyhow, is that how the review was compiled? From a bunch of japanese forum posters?
I get the feeling that you're trying to say the review is somehow inaccurate or biased because it was done by the masses. I don't get why people are walking around saying, "Hey, just because 9/10 players says this game is bad doesn't make it bad.". It's almost as if people are saying that the game isn't bad because 1 out of every 500 gamers enjoys it.
The best way to review a game is mass opinion. Sure you may get some unintelligent opinions, but seeing as how this review was compiled using 500 opinions, I'd say it's an accurate one. The game has fun graphics, the rest is broken or appeals to 1/500 people.
Unfortunately the masses are in general unintelligent; Not to mention I would question the validity of those scores since even on this site those that have actually reviewed this game have averaged a 7 out of 10, which is a pretty decent score.
Right, because everyone who reviews the game is a Monkey in a top-hat. Really? C'mon. Does every thread on FFXIV have to be about someone trying to defend the game with an outrageous, demeaning, or ridiculous claim? It's as bad as saying anyone who plays WoW is second-class citizens... The opposite can be said about people bashing the game for no other reason than to just generate hate.
Really getting tired of this behavior. "You just don't understand the game, aren't willing to put forth the effort to understand it, or are just lazy". I think spending the money alone is more than enough effort. If you find reason to hate the game within the first 10 minutes of it, then that's your problem, but there's no excuse to call people unintelligent because *you* disagree with a review.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Your post has contextualized my feelings to the T. I am so tired of people coming on forums not contributing anything, NOTHING of value to a thread, than simply to demean or call someone a "troll",. As if people are going to actually benefit from their statements. If only I could log on here one day and see a colaborative thread filled with nothing but persoanl opinions related to relevant information about a game I'm interested in. I think the attackers of threads are people that personally don't get much conversation time with real people so they take it out on these forums. Kinda like a person that never practiced how to dance at home, when they get on the dance floor in public veiew they look like total idiots.
..... Crap, see what this just made me do, I just posted something that shared no valuable information to this thread WHATSOEVER, its contagious.
So the review came from a collaboration of reviews from forum posters on a Japanese online game forum.
I just wanted to clarify the source, I mean it doesnt surprise me at all. If you did the same thing here on mmorp.com it would be much worse.
anyhow, is that how the review was compiled? From a bunch of japanese forum posters?
I get the feeling that you're trying to say the review is somehow inaccurate or biased because it was done by the masses. I don't get why people are walking around saying, "Hey, just because 9/10 players says this game is bad doesn't make it bad.". It's almost as if people are saying that the game isn't bad because 1 out of every 500 gamers enjoys it.
The best way to review a game is mass opinion. Sure you may get some unintelligent opinions, but seeing as how this review was compiled using 500 opinions, I'd say it's an accurate one. The game has fun graphics, the rest is broken or appeals to 1/500 people.
Unfortunately the masses are in general unintelligent; Not to mention I would question the validity of those scores since even on this site those that have actually reviewed this game have averaged a 7 out of 10, which is a pretty decent score.
You now have to be intelligent to know what you like. If you are too dumb then other people who think they are more intelligent then you because they say so can tell you what you should like, and you have to listen to them because they know what you like better then you do. Because you are dumb.
The number of people that are agreeing with the 1 star reviews (there are 75). 557/570. 308/316. 427/435. 263/267. The ratio of people agreeing with 1 star reviews is pretty massive compared to any other 1 star review that I've seen.
When you chose the 5 star reviews (There are 20), you get 25/340. 97/216. 13/129. 4/59. 0/32. 3/122. 3/114. There was one 5 star review that had 156/175. This review was mocking the game and the collectibles that come with it saying that the tumbler was worth a million and that the leather was cheap.
I really don't mind grinding in MMOs if the combat is fun. I just put on a podcast or music, zone out and relax while slaying creatures. When I started playing WoW coming from FFXI all I did was grind mobs, I didn't do quests or anything ( although this isn't the case anymore) I still find my favorite type of quests to be the grindy ones "Go kill 10 rats, etc."
The fact that i'm limited as to how much I can grind in a lvl grind game makes it an issue.
JP players are the last people that would turn on SE, it actually holds a lot more credibility than a western review would (too me atleast).
SE blows when it comes to games in general now cuz all their games have been complete shit after square merged with enix. they need to go back to squaresoft.
SE blows when it comes to games in general now cuz all their games have been complete shit after square merged with enix. they need to go back to squaresoft.
I've always disliked Enix, even back on the NES/SNES days, so with my bias I can't help but agree that I've found more problems in their games ever since that merge.
Still, it doesn't keep me from enjoying this one or the others, so don't lump me into that extreme.
As for the on topic matter, I can't help but admit that the game is not being as well received as hoped, but it doesn't make it a total failure. Changes and expansions will come to this game, and while it's going to definitely have a rocky launch and welcoming, I think over time along with the tweaks and fixes, the subscription numbers and overall health will slowly and steadily climb. I don't really forsee a mass exodus like the other games mentioned in this thread, but it's all really guess work anyways.
SE blows when it comes to games in general now cuz all their games have been complete shit after square merged with enix. they need to go back to squaresoft.
I've always disliked Enix, even back on the NES/SNES days, so with my bias I can't help but agree that I've found more problems in their games ever since that merge.
Still, it doesn't keep me from enjoying this one or the others, so don't lump me into that extreme.
As for the on topic matter, I can't help but admit that the game is not being as well received as hoped, but it doesn't make it a total failure. Changes and expansions will come to this game, and while it's going to definitely have a rocky launch and welcoming, I think over time along with the tweaks and fixes, the subscription numbers and overall health will slowly and steadily climb. I don't really forsee a mass exodus like the other games mentioned in this thread, but it's all really guess work anyways.
Yeah but probably the changes will come too late to do any noticeable effect, because the year is ending and with it comes many AAA launchs.
"It has potential" -Second most used phrase on existence "It sucks" -Most used phrase on existence
I agree with this statement. The game itself hasn't been entirely set up yet.
And the in-game economy is still being established, and there is a destinct shortage of good gear because there just isn't enough high level crafters yet.
Comments
SE can't pomp money forever in false advertising...This has to stop before it will get bad, really bad for them and those who directly favours them. What you are saying, is that masses should spend their own money based on a "intelligent" fellow like you, because they are to stupid to decide for them. All your objective opinions tells that you are to blind or to stupid to see the truth, or else you got well payed for it. All I have said now and before are reactions to people who try to manipulate masses with false advertising...And don't bother to warn me again because I'm trying to clear up things you people hyperbolised because this time I got proof and I'll press charges
Actually, though sure no one will read a post this deep into it but meh I'm drunk.. anyone who has doen even a smidgen of survey based research (and yes even in social sciences it is kinda at teh bottom tier) would tell you not to trst any sort of voulenteer polling or reviews..statistically (and yes no good researcher will dare say full objectively lest they full of crap) the only folks who go out of their way to write reviews are (in MMO forums terms) fanboys or trolls.. You are getting a highly skewed sample. Nothing to say about ff14 as I havent tried it yet though much ado about the generalizability of "reviews" on the net.
I agree with this %100.
Its good to hear what other people are thinking. I can use them as a knowledge gathering tool so there is some value to them but due to the small amount of responses they don't really represent anything other than the personal opinions of a limited user base.
Translated Example posts:
"Don't buy, don't buy, don't buy. This is like throwing your money away. You would be better off going out to buy Yakiniku. Please give me a refund."
"Horrible performance. I found myself re-making my characters because once my system crashed during the quests you can only take once per 48 hours.
I would click. Wait 10 sec. Then click and wait 10 sec.
The action response time is terrible.
Since I bought it, I guess I have it for 30 days, but I will not be renewing my subscription"
"Graphically the game is great, not incredible by any means, but pretty standard as an MMO. I like the character motion of the mikotte(sp) and Lalafel(sp)
I was assigned as an alpha tester from April and nearly 1/2 of the issues complained about remained in the official release.
This game was the result of a crooked producer who cared nothing of the users input.
This game has no re-play value"
"Aside from graphics this game is ok. Actually bad. Basically a $h**ty game."
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Jesus.. the more I read... lol >_<
This site just sodomizes FFXIV...
mmorpg.com seems tame compared to this.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
oh, ok. thx for the method, then.
btw, I'll follow you on prefering their TV to their games, at least since the PS2 was introduced
Lol I agree that site is just brutal.
I can't link it but I'll mention a study I read on internet reviews and marketing:
Most sites when putting their products open to review actually shoot for about a 3/5 rating to the positive.
Either a 5/5 or a 1/5 is considered to be unfavorable and unrealistic.
They are mostly used to generate discussion about their product.
Since people like statistics etc
http://www.bazaarvoice.com/resources/stats
Notables:
90% of consumers online trust recommendations from people they know; 70% trust opinions ofunknown users. (Econsultancy, July 2009)
61% of people rely on user reviews for product information or research before a buying decision is made. (Razorfish, 2008)
92% shoppers have more confidence in info sought online vs. anything from a salesclerk or other source. (Wall Street Journal, January 2009)
75% of people don't believe that companies tell the truth in advertisements. (Yankelovich)
Of course the japanese have the same issues with the game as we do. The justification that some peoples use about how japanese like different kind of games makes me laugh. Western players loved FFVII, VIII, X, tactics ect. I loved a shitload of japanese games, from capcom games to gran turismo, mgs ... When a game is fun is fun for americans, europeans, japanese and whoever else. So pls don't use that excuse anymore.
Yup. Also should be added that when it comes to "gaming", "fun", "entertainment", most humans are indeed roughly equivalent. it's a cognitive process of pleasure. True, cultural differences play a lot in expectations/appreciation, such as humour (very localized indeed) or "respect", etc. Yet, the real fun you get in a game is often very simple: how "good" it is to press a button and see subsequent actions unfold, how "logically" it responds to your choices, and so on.
The rest, from story to graphics passing by music and stuff, is much more of a "shell", a "container" for the raw cognitive treats that are making the core programming of the game. Basic actions, such as moving, hitting, dodging, using rules to perform better, those are the bread'n'butter of the pleasure that video gaming brings to our bodies and brains.
Think of how incredibly fun some simple games can be. Genres which, as a matter of fact, japanese devs have become masters at, such a Nintendo or Konami, Capcom and Namco prove to the market on a regular basis for some 20+ years now.
Now look at incredibly complex games: none is "so good" if the basics aren't that good (weak link logic). It's as simple as that. The depth behind some FF titles isn't everything: it has to be fun to play in the first place for that depth to be experienced and, if it is to be a positive aspect, a nice cognitive experience, appreciated by the players.
In the particular case of RPG, Systems design (conceptually, but more importantly in the practical reality of how players use them) is crucial, because in a long-term experience like RPG is, the rewarding processes are the reason why a human brain will stick to the activity. The game needs to fulfil the players' long-term objectives as well as more immediate ones.
TL;DR: "Power is nothing without control" would pretty much sum it up if you replace "power" by any video game genre. It's in the basic actions (moving, performing single actions, menus...) that you will find the real cognitive treat. Complexity or depth cannot be self-sufficient if the aim is to entertain yourself via a video game--or you'd rather read a book, I guess.
This is because westerners categorize Japanese with all the other asians. Japanese are very different people from other asian countries and their cultures aren't even close.
Your post has contextualized my feelings to the T. I am so tired of people coming on forums not contributing anything, NOTHING of value to a thread, than simply to demean or call someone a "troll",. As if people are going to actually benefit from their statements. If only I could log on here one day and see a colaborative thread filled with nothing but persoanl opinions related to relevant information about a game I'm interested in. I think the attackers of threads are people that personally don't get much conversation time with real people so they take it out on these forums. Kinda like a person that never practiced how to dance at home, when they get on the dance floor in public veiew they look like total idiots.
..... Crap, see what this just made me do, I just posted something that shared no valuable information to this thread WHATSOEVER, its contagious.
Just regarding to the amazon.jp rating FFXI didn't get any better ratings than FFXIV.
Seems like the Japanese are more civil AND have less fanboys.
Damn.
Though they do have some messed up otakus once in a while.
You now have to be intelligent to know what you like. If you are too dumb then other people who think they are more intelligent then you because they say so can tell you what you should like, and you have to listen to them because they know what you like better then you do. Because you are dumb.
You know what else is kind of insane about the Japanese Amazon? Here, look at this:
http://www.amazon.co.jp/product-reviews/B003UHVPDG/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
The number of people that are agreeing with the 1 star reviews (there are 75). 557/570. 308/316. 427/435. 263/267. The ratio of people agreeing with 1 star reviews is pretty massive compared to any other 1 star review that I've seen.
When you chose the 5 star reviews (There are 20), you get 25/340. 97/216. 13/129. 4/59. 0/32. 3/122. 3/114. There was one 5 star review that had 156/175. This review was mocking the game and the collectibles that come with it saying that the tumbler was worth a million and that the leather was cheap.
It's craziness over there.
I must say this surprised me.
I was thinking that FFXIV was atleast being well received in Asia, but it seems I was wrong by far.
This game is being burned down in all fronts.
"It has potential"
-Second most used phrase on existence
"It sucks"
-Most used phrase on existence
I really don't mind grinding in MMOs if the combat is fun. I just put on a podcast or music, zone out and relax while slaying creatures. When I started playing WoW coming from FFXI all I did was grind mobs, I didn't do quests or anything ( although this isn't the case anymore) I still find my favorite type of quests to be the grindy ones "Go kill 10 rats, etc."
The fact that i'm limited as to how much I can grind in a lvl grind game makes it an issue.
JP players are the last people that would turn on SE, it actually holds a lot more credibility than a western review would (too me atleast).
Jeeze when will the Japanese players understand that this is not the kind of player the game was made for.
Wait ... what?!
"It is my opinion, that my opinions are always right"
SE blows when it comes to games in general now cuz all their games have been complete shit after square merged with enix. they need to go back to squaresoft.
I've always disliked Enix, even back on the NES/SNES days, so with my bias I can't help but agree that I've found more problems in their games ever since that merge.
Still, it doesn't keep me from enjoying this one or the others, so don't lump me into that extreme.
As for the on topic matter, I can't help but admit that the game is not being as well received as hoped, but it doesn't make it a total failure. Changes and expansions will come to this game, and while it's going to definitely have a rocky launch and welcoming, I think over time along with the tweaks and fixes, the subscription numbers and overall health will slowly and steadily climb. I don't really forsee a mass exodus like the other games mentioned in this thread, but it's all really guess work anyways.
Technically, this is an average, well rounded game.
Yeah but probably the changes will come too late to do any noticeable effect, because the year is ending and with it comes many AAA launchs.
"It has potential"
-Second most used phrase on existence
"It sucks"
-Most used phrase on existence
Talking of professional reviews, this gem popped up on Core:
http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/22175-square-enix-please-wait-3-4-weeks-before-reviewing-ffxiv/
I agree with this statement. The game itself hasn't been entirely set up yet.
And the in-game economy is still being established, and there is a destinct shortage of good gear because there just isn't enough high level crafters yet.
Lol. Technically, huh?