well obviously you perfer everything to be handed to ya. Then STO is the place for ya and Eve will never be. personally i perfer to earn everything i get and not end up getting everything handed to me like im a little kid. but ahh just my opinion. just curious why did u post in a eve thread if ya hate the game ?
Apparently to get flamed for expressing my opinion, but whatever. I can handle flamage. And because I was curious to see if anything else had changed in the game to excite me to come back. Apparently not. =P
You talk of earning everything you get in the game, but you don't. See my previous post: You can play as often as you want and you are STILL stuck at the same skill point rate that everyone else is, while a dude who logs on only long enough to switch skills training gets the SAME THING. So really you're not earning anything at all, you're the one getting things handed to you.
A friend of mine started playing STO same time I did, except he's still at rank 20, and I'm at rank 61. Why the difference? I played more, and got rewarded for doing so.
That really interesting, i might even consider playing eve now xD
(Is lazy) when exactly this change/expansion will be released? approximate month?date?
And btw it is fair because noneone should have an advantage because he played and payed longer someone new but because he is better skill wise
Thank you for agreeing with me, although I think you did so inadvertently. Eve gives players who play longer an advantage over players who play more frequently, which makes no sense.
well eve doesnt cater to kids. Eve makes u earn everything. and you 2 arent seeing the obvious picture yet. So if ya dont like eve then please leave the thread so it can get back on topic.
It isnt about kids, its about whats right and whats wrong
And getting an advantage over someone else who can be an even better player at aiming/thinkg etc because you have played the game for 5 years is just ridiculous and stupid and is obviously created in order to get money off the players...( i understand that every half good mmo needs a way or trick to get money from players expect in some few cases that are just obviously trying to steal your money[i dont count eve at that category, they support the game and need money for their new content and free expansions])
Its a matter of balance, its not the real world. Its a fictional game where it should have balance between players. Make a noob win like in wow because he have spended a year trying to find top gear and have 1000k health compared to a new better player that has 10k is simply stupid
Time should never be the factor of pvp, skill should be the factor(although it isnt so easy to define in eve like other games)
Its easier if they give you everything from the beggining isnt it??(not possible mostly because it would make most player lose interest thus not enough money)
But if you had everything from the begging you could start competiting with others which is far more difficult and challenging than competing with a stupid computer that requires you to do repetitive things all the item in order to get an item. But i guess defeating and improving your skills in pvp isnt so easy so you just like to say that getting items based of time is good and you did something worthy of getting it(the only worthy thing you did is pay the company)
aren't there already countless threads on the "catching up" debate. I thought this one was about the removal of learning skills. That seems like one less thing to worry about catching up on eh?
Regarding the idea, expressed a couple pages back, that this is somehow (paraphrased) "dumbing down" EvE, I have to disagree. As I understand it, you are getting a number of base attribute points that cannot be remapped once applied. This would mean I would want to actually put a bit more planning into where I stick those points. Maybe I misunderstood that though, so feel free to correct me. Regardless, I don't see how removing these particular skills does anything to dumb the game down. I mean, was it any smarter to load a plan into EvEMon and click the little "recommended" link?
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
@ DreadP1r4te T2 is not necessarily better than T1 it all depends on the specific ship and circumstances, yes in your example a Nighthawk is more powerful than a drake but you can buy seven Nighthawk hulls for the cost of a Drake hull and you are making the mistake of believing ship progression to be the same as another MMOs leveling system.
Older characters do not level up to a level 2 Nighthawk from their level 1 Drake.
I agree that older characters do have more variety in ship choice than newer players but they cannot fly those ships all at the same time, In my corp we have younger characters some of whom only have around a quarter of the SP that I have but if one of them flies a Vagabond he probably has the same level of SP invested in that ship that I do and the only variable in effectiveness is the piloting skill the only difference is that I am not limited to the Vagabond I can also fly a Zealot and Ishtar with the same level of SP investment where the younger char just has the Vaga.
Nearly all older characters spend as much time in the T1 Variants as they do in the T2 ships if not more, you do not see Nighthawk blobs instead of Drake blobs.
The only thing the really makes a vet much more powerful than younger characters is when it comes to super capitols as the increase in power compared to Carriers or Dreadnoughts is huge but it takes years to train for them and they are a massive investment in ISK but they still die and when it pops it hurts and you paint yourself with a big shoot me sign, I cannot really use my Nyx anymore unless I join another big alliance because its a huge target and I know I have several large alliances like PL watching out for me using it.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
Originally posted by DreadP1r4teObviously didn't read my post.
I will repeat it again then: flying a 'higher tier' ship isn't always advantageous. Ships aren't progression in EVE Online, they are no more than tools used to perform certain tasks.
Some ships are better for different tasks and some tasks require longer training times.
I cannot stop you from perceiving 'higher tier' ships as progression and I do understand your desire to fly new ships but that isn't the concept of the game and skill system.
Originally posted by DreadP1r4te Eve gives players who play longer an advantage over players who play more frequently, which makes no sense.
Playing longer does not necessary mean you can fly the ship better, there are caps of how many skill points you can utilize while flying single ship. Only what more skill points do is allow you to fly more ships, you will be able to do more things.
Skill system is there to ensure pilot variety and freeing you from unproductive activity such as leveling. That way you can be fully occupied with the game and enjoy the content.
Flying ships isn't a progression. I, for example, was flying T1 frigates, the basic ship you start with, for most of the time before I quit EVE and that was despite my +40M skill points in combat ships. Why? because T1 ship suited the best my needs.
you are happy but Malcanis law apply here again :P
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
you are happy but Malcanis law apply here again :P
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Ya know Cosy i do not agree on alot of what you say sometimes but i agree here. He also responded to one of my posts back aways and i made a copy of it and am gonns save it for if he turns out wrong. CCP may not go to another server but there getting close if not then i see them going to a Euro and States server.
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
you are happy but Malcanis law apply here again :P
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Ya know Cosy i do not agree on alot of what you say sometimes but i agree here. He also responded to one of my posts back aways and i made a copy of it and am gonns save it for if he turns out wrong. CCP may not go to another server but there getting close if not then i see them going to a Euro and States server.
If you want to make a little wager, then by all means, let's discuss the stakes and the time scale.
u will never find eve on a *new server* just fyi to ya dev's said age's back they wont do it and the undertaking alone is very costly. i suggest u 2 go read up on dev blogs (past few years) on exactly how they run their servers :-P *i win the bet* XD
Playing longer does not necessary mean you can fly the ship better, there are caps of how many skill points you can utilize while flying single ship. Only what more skill points do is allow you to fly more ships, you will be able to do more things.
No you always have an advantage, as you said its not about ships(a lot) since ships arent like levels in other mmos. Its about the millions of other skills ccp added. Weapon skills that require almost half month to complete to reach to level 5, module skills that still require 1 month to finish and generally overall effectiveness skills.
A new player wont have them and will never be able to really compete with an older player until he spend ages to train the skills to at least level 3/4(even then it wont be as effective, if somone has a small advantage on shield+small advantage on blasters++++++ it gathers up and creates a big advantage). Ships also require skills, and if you want to fly a specific ship you need skills for that and some skills might even take a month to be finished.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
I dont agree with this as a fact, it depends on the company and how they think and what they are tryly trying to achieve and how they are going to do that, this might apply to most companies but not all so i cant call it a law/fact
I'm liking the change. I will be Titan-ready on Dec. 14th instead of in March. I can't understand how anyone would think this is unfair. It makes the new-player experience better yet still compensates long-term players for thier investment in these skills. If I put all of my skills into an Evemon plan, import them into a fresh character, and add +15 (+12 plus +3 implants) in the implant calculator the difference in training time is negligible.
Originally posted by Wolfy2449No you always have an advantage, as you said its not about ships(a lot) since ships arent like levels in other mmos. Its about the millions of other skills ccp added. Weapon skills that require almost half month to complete to reach to level 5, module skills that still require 1 month to finish and generally overall effectiveness skills. A new player wont have them and will never be able to really compete with an older player until he spend ages to train the skills to at least level 3/4(even then it wont be as effective, if somone has a small advantage on shield+small advantage on blasters++++++ it gathers up and creates a big advantage). Ships also require skills, and if you want to fly a specific ship you need skills for that and some skills might even take a month to be finished.
Well, there is no way this discussion can lead anywhere. I tried to explain to you that it does not matter. I have explained it from a perspective of someone who knows how the game works.
I did it like many others before me and after. They were most likely better than me since I am not very good at PVP. We were competitive even on trial accounts and beaten down much older characters in 1v1, we were useful part of the fleet and groups.
But I guess we all are lying because there is you, with no experience and your assumptions who says we can't do it...
The people who make the argument that the older players have this huge advantage will never learn. They don't want to know the truth. They are just looking for an excuse to justify quiting Eve instead of facing the fact that they are to lazy to learn the game.
I made a new character just for fun and I was doing solo piracy in a Punisher with about two weeks of training. I downed characters that were over a year old. It has been said many times on these forums but people refuse to believe it; skill > skillpoints.
The people who make the argument that the older players have this huge advantage will never learn. They don't want to know the truth. They are just looking for an excuse to justify quiting Eve instead of facing the fact that they are to lazy to learn the game.
I made a new character just for fun and I was doing solo piracy in a Punisher with about two weeks of training. I downed characters that were over a year old. It has been said many times on these forums but people refuse to believe it; skill > skillpoints.
While skill is part of it what people need to understand is that you can only fly one ship at a time so if you're flying a Drake, for example, any skill points you have in Gallente blaster ships isn't going to help you. If a new player starts the game and focuses just on Drake skills when he maxes them out he will be equal to the guy who's been playing for six years and has 50 million+ skillpoints when he's in a Drake.
The "oh noes I'll never catch up" argument is stupid and the only people who still bring it up these days are people that have some sort of agenda against the game.
Also (to address some other posts in the thread), having the learning skills isn't having the entire game handed to you on a platter...it's just removing a bad game mechanic that never made sense and never fit in with the rest of the game.
The amount of hurf blurfing in this thread is amazing.
While skill is part of it what people need to understand is that you can only fly one ship at a time so if you're flying a Drake, for example, any skill points you have in Gallente blaster ships isn't going to help you. If a new player starts the game and focuses just on Drake skills when he maxes them out he will be equal to the guy who's been playing for six years and has 50 million+ skillpoints when he's in a Drake.
You are talking like skills dont take time at all... to at least being able to fly a drake and basic modules you need at least a few days, to increase its efficiency to maximum so your are not in a disadvantage agianst an older player in 1v1 requires months...
The never catch up doesnt exist yes, but the catch up takes time...
We were competitive even on trial accounts and beaten down much older characters in 1v1, we were useful part of the fleet and groups.
Oh really you tried 1v1??? with similar ships?? with your opponent having maxed out all of his ships module skills and you having only lvl1-3 and you won in 1V1?!?!?! Nice imagination or it means the older player was afk... Eve isnt a really skill-based pvp game, most of the fight is played before the actual fight with intel and trying to guess and counter the enemy build. You cant talk about balanced pvp expect if both ships are the same or quite similar...
What else you did?? you killed a frigate with a destroyer which is obviuously frigates counter???
I never i said i dislike eve, its a really nice game, i just said that is obvious that you cant start a real pvp encounter from the begginign and everyone who says you can pvp from day is is an idiot cause the only think you can kill is same level players or go in a big group and do minimal damage or just use modules to scramble/web. There is no real pvp at the beggining without the necesarry skills, you can try but u ll either get blown up either be in a group and have minimal impact on the fights outcome(expect if u web/scramble which is important). PvP in eve is more about planning, execution in combat isnt that big... Winning and older player which has better overall statistics early is a myth expect if player is afk or just stupid and doesnt know how to play at all, eve is not rocket science... if 2 same skilled players play with same ships the one with the more skill points for HIS SHIPS MODULES will win(not generally more skill points)
I still think EVE Online is a flamboyant waste of money, because there is no real competition to the game. Anyone who comes in any significant amount of time after the game launched will always be at a handicap because there is no way to catch up to the high skill players. Not to mention their business model is shady at best; they charge a subscription and then make leveling up a time-based system, which means that if you want higher level skills you have to pay them tons of money over the duration, unless you're one of those godly miner type characters who mines and sells to make millions then buys the in game time codes.
Sorry, just not my style. A system like that needs player skill not just typical "click to activate" modules and speed, distance, and angular velocity damage calculation. Make it so you have to physically aim your weapons with your mouse, etc, give it more interaction, and maybe I'd come back to it, but as it stands, I'm disgusted that I wasted 8 months on that game. Removing the learning skills will not affect the game in the slightest. The learning curve isn't so much of a learning curve as a "You must wait this amount of time to do anything fun" in this game.
Reminds me of trying to pit a capped out WoW character against a level 20 character, or maybe a Lt. Cmdr vs a VA in Star Trek Online. Its just stupid. What makes it worse is you can never catch up to that high level character because he just gets more and more skill points over time. Sure you might eventually catch up to his Raven fitting, but by then he's moved on to a Black Ops Battleship and you're still behind.
Like people keep saying, there's only 5 levels per skill, and there's only so many skills per ship. The advantage of an older player is just having a greater variety of ships to fly and things to do.
I have my own issues with the business model, but it's not so much how the skills are trained, rather is the fact you can only train one character at a time per account, which forces players to use multiple accounts if they want to experience different aspects of the game.
As for miners getting godly amounts of isk, yeah they can make lots of isk, but the risk is great because you have to be in low sec, 0.0, or a wormhole to get anything of worth. You can make more in pve with less risk by farming npc pirates in 0.0 or running sleeper sites in wormholes.
I have only good things to say about plex, it basically allows you play for free, and at the same time cuts down on the amount of isk sellers in the game.
There's more than one kind of skill, in Eve you're right, there's no twitch type skill needed, but you do need to be skilled in strategy and tactics. If you want a space based game with twitch skills there are two games coming up that I believe would be more to your liking; Jumpgate Evolution and Black Prophecy.
I know of people who have jumped in the game and joined factional warfare right off the bat and had a ball. It is players who are afraid to commit to pvp who have trouble finding that fun factor right away. I've never been much of a pvp person myself and have been happy enough with mining/industry, but I wouldn't mind trying the pvp aspect of the game as well.
Last but not least, joining a good corp can make all the difference. An active and organized corp can have you having fun in no time at all. You don't have to have a lot of skill points to go pvp or pve with corp mates. Some people make having fun way harder in this game than it has to be. In my experience it's not the game but the person and the people they play with which determines whether or not they are going to have any fun. Yeah you're likely to lose ships, but that's just part of the game.
the game itself does not lend to a very appealing early player experience. It's a spreadsheet game that trys real hard to promote itself as a semi space sim with riveting combat and it simply isn't. if ever were more like say homeworld in terms of combat and graphics it would be a very appealing game to alot more people. Theres enough backstabbing and corporate espinoage in the real world who the hell needs it in a game, games are supposed to be fun first.
You are talking like skills dont take time at all... to at least being able to fly a drake and basic modules you need at least a few days, to increase its efficiency to maximum so your are not in a disadvantage agianst an older player in 1v1 requires months...
Oh really you tried 1v1??? with similar ships?? with your opponent having maxed out all of his ships module skills and you having only lvl1-3 and you won in 1V1?!?!?! Nice imagination....
You base your entire argument on the least possible scenario to ever occur in EVE Online, and then accuse the other person of presenting an imaginary example. I'm not sure you realize the humor there.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Wolfy2449 Oh really you tried 1v1??? with similar ships??
Yes, similar or even same ships and the opponent wasn't afk...
Also, you have to understand that level 5 skills represent 1/5 of the benefit you can get from the skill but it cost you like 50% of the total skill points invested. So having lvl 5 skills takes huge amount of skill points for very little gain.
I never said you dislike EVE, I am just saying you make assumption about how you think the game works without prior experience to support your claims.
Originally posted by Loktofeit You base your entire argument on the least possible scenario to ever occur in EVE Online, and then accuse the other person of presenting an imaginary example. I'm not sure you realize the humor there.
Hehe
Originally posted by Wolfy2449 if 2 same skilled players play with same ships the one with the more skill points for HIS SHIPS MODULES will win(not generally more skill points)
If this was really happening, you might make a point. (Un)fortunately for you, it isn't.
Total amount of skill points does not determine their distribution. This isn't level based game where 10M skills points is better than 5M skill points.
Comments
Apparently to get flamed for expressing my opinion, but whatever. I can handle flamage. And because I was curious to see if anything else had changed in the game to excite me to come back. Apparently not. =P
You talk of earning everything you get in the game, but you don't. See my previous post: You can play as often as you want and you are STILL stuck at the same skill point rate that everyone else is, while a dude who logs on only long enough to switch skills training gets the SAME THING. So really you're not earning anything at all, you're the one getting things handed to you.
A friend of mine started playing STO same time I did, except he's still at rank 20, and I'm at rank 61. Why the difference? I played more, and got rewarded for doing so.
patch comes december 14th.
Thank you for agreeing with me, although I think you did so inadvertently. Eve gives players who play longer an advantage over players who play more frequently, which makes no sense.
well eve doesnt cater to kids. Eve makes u earn everything. and you 2 arent seeing the obvious picture yet. So if ya dont like eve then please leave the thread so it can get back on topic.
It isnt about kids, its about whats right and whats wrong
And getting an advantage over someone else who can be an even better player at aiming/thinkg etc because you have played the game for 5 years is just ridiculous and stupid and is obviously created in order to get money off the players...( i understand that every half good mmo needs a way or trick to get money from players expect in some few cases that are just obviously trying to steal your money[i dont count eve at that category, they support the game and need money for their new content and free expansions])
Its a matter of balance, its not the real world. Its a fictional game where it should have balance between players. Make a noob win like in wow because he have spended a year trying to find top gear and have 1000k health compared to a new better player that has 10k is simply stupid
Time should never be the factor of pvp, skill should be the factor(although it isnt so easy to define in eve like other games)
Its easier if they give you everything from the beggining isnt it??(not possible mostly because it would make most player lose interest thus not enough money)
But if you had everything from the begging you could start competiting with others which is far more difficult and challenging than competing with a stupid computer that requires you to do repetitive things all the item in order to get an item. But i guess defeating and improving your skills in pvp isnt so easy so you just like to say that getting items based of time is good and you did something worthy of getting it(the only worthy thing you did is pay the company)
aren't there already countless threads on the "catching up" debate. I thought this one was about the removal of learning skills. That seems like one less thing to worry about catching up on eh?
Regarding the idea, expressed a couple pages back, that this is somehow (paraphrased) "dumbing down" EvE, I have to disagree. As I understand it, you are getting a number of base attribute points that cannot be remapped once applied. This would mean I would want to actually put a bit more planning into where I stick those points. Maybe I misunderstood that though, so feel free to correct me. Regardless, I don't see how removing these particular skills does anything to dumb the game down. I mean, was it any smarter to load a plan into EvEMon and click the little "recommended" link?
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
@ DreadP1r4te T2 is not necessarily better than T1 it all depends on the specific ship and circumstances, yes in your example a Nighthawk is more powerful than a drake but you can buy seven Nighthawk hulls for the cost of a Drake hull and you are making the mistake of believing ship progression to be the same as another MMOs leveling system.
Older characters do not level up to a level 2 Nighthawk from their level 1 Drake.
I agree that older characters do have more variety in ship choice than newer players but they cannot fly those ships all at the same time, In my corp we have younger characters some of whom only have around a quarter of the SP that I have but if one of them flies a Vagabond he probably has the same level of SP invested in that ship that I do and the only variable in effectiveness is the piloting skill the only difference is that I am not limited to the Vagabond I can also fly a Zealot and Ishtar with the same level of SP investment where the younger char just has the Vaga.
Nearly all older characters spend as much time in the T1 Variants as they do in the T2 ships if not more, you do not see Nighthawk blobs instead of Drake blobs.
The only thing the really makes a vet much more powerful than younger characters is when it comes to super capitols as the increase in power compared to Carriers or Dreadnoughts is huge but it takes years to train for them and they are a massive investment in ISK but they still die and when it pops it hurts and you paint yourself with a big shoot me sign, I cannot really use my Nyx anymore unless I join another big alliance because its a huge target and I know I have several large alliances like PL watching out for me using it.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
I will repeat it again then: flying a 'higher tier' ship isn't always advantageous. Ships aren't progression in EVE Online, they are no more than tools used to perform certain tasks.
Some ships are better for different tasks and some tasks require longer training times.
I cannot stop you from perceiving 'higher tier' ships as progression and I do understand your desire to fly new ships but that isn't the concept of the game and skill system.
Playing longer does not necessary mean you can fly the ship better, there are caps of how many skill points you can utilize while flying single ship. Only what more skill points do is allow you to fly more ships, you will be able to do more things.
Skill system is there to ensure pilot variety and freeing you from unproductive activity such as leveling. That way you can be fully occupied with the game and enjoy the content.
Flying ships isn't a progression. I, for example, was flying T1 frigates, the basic ship you start with, for most of the time before I quit EVE and that was despite my +40M skill points in combat ships. Why? because T1 ship suited the best my needs.
You're kind of a sissy, you know that right?
you are happy but Malcanis law apply here again :P
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
BestSigEver :P
Ya know Cosy i do not agree on alot of what you say sometimes but i agree here. He also responded to one of my posts back aways and i made a copy of it and am gonns save it for if he turns out wrong. CCP may not go to another server but there getting close if not then i see them going to a Euro and States server.
MAGA
If you want to make a little wager, then by all means, let's discuss the stakes and the time scale.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
u will never find eve on a *new server* just fyi to ya dev's said age's back they wont do it and the undertaking alone is very costly. i suggest u 2 go read up on dev blogs (past few years) on exactly how they run their servers :-P *i win the bet* XD
No you always have an advantage, as you said its not about ships(a lot) since ships arent like levels in other mmos. Its about the millions of other skills ccp added. Weapon skills that require almost half month to complete to reach to level 5, module skills that still require 1 month to finish and generally overall effectiveness skills.
A new player wont have them and will never be able to really compete with an older player until he spend ages to train the skills to at least level 3/4(even then it wont be as effective, if somone has a small advantage on shield+small advantage on blasters++++++ it gathers up and creates a big advantage). Ships also require skills, and if you want to fly a specific ship you need skills for that and some skills might even take a month to be finished.
I dont agree with this as a fact, it depends on the company and how they think and what they are tryly trying to achieve and how they are going to do that, this might apply to most companies but not all so i cant call it a law/fact
I'm liking the change. I will be Titan-ready on Dec. 14th instead of in March. I can't understand how anyone would think this is unfair. It makes the new-player experience better yet still compensates long-term players for thier investment in these skills. If I put all of my skills into an Evemon plan, import them into a fresh character, and add +15 (+12 plus +3 implants) in the implant calculator the difference in training time is negligible.
Well, there is no way this discussion can lead anywhere. I tried to explain to you that it does not matter. I have explained it from a perspective of someone who knows how the game works.
I did it like many others before me and after. They were most likely better than me since I am not very good at PVP. We were competitive even on trial accounts and beaten down much older characters in 1v1, we were useful part of the fleet and groups.
But I guess we all are lying because there is you, with no experience and your assumptions who says we can't do it...
@Gdemami, There is no reasoning with some people.
The people who make the argument that the older players have this huge advantage will never learn. They don't want to know the truth. They are just looking for an excuse to justify quiting Eve instead of facing the fact that they are to lazy to learn the game.
I made a new character just for fun and I was doing solo piracy in a Punisher with about two weeks of training. I downed characters that were over a year old. It has been said many times on these forums but people refuse to believe it; skill > skillpoints.
While skill is part of it what people need to understand is that you can only fly one ship at a time so if you're flying a Drake, for example, any skill points you have in Gallente blaster ships isn't going to help you. If a new player starts the game and focuses just on Drake skills when he maxes them out he will be equal to the guy who's been playing for six years and has 50 million+ skillpoints when he's in a Drake.
The "oh noes I'll never catch up" argument is stupid and the only people who still bring it up these days are people that have some sort of agenda against the game.
Also (to address some other posts in the thread), having the learning skills isn't having the entire game handed to you on a platter...it's just removing a bad game mechanic that never made sense and never fit in with the rest of the game.
The amount of hurf blurfing in this thread is amazing.
You are talking like skills dont take time at all... to at least being able to fly a drake and basic modules you need at least a few days, to increase its efficiency to maximum so your are not in a disadvantage agianst an older player in 1v1 requires months...
The never catch up doesnt exist yes, but the catch up takes time...
Oh really you tried 1v1??? with similar ships?? with your opponent having maxed out all of his ships module skills and you having only lvl1-3 and you won in 1V1?!?!?! Nice imagination or it means the older player was afk... Eve isnt a really skill-based pvp game, most of the fight is played before the actual fight with intel and trying to guess and counter the enemy build. You cant talk about balanced pvp expect if both ships are the same or quite similar...
What else you did?? you killed a frigate with a destroyer which is obviuously frigates counter???
I never i said i dislike eve, its a really nice game, i just said that is obvious that you cant start a real pvp encounter from the begginign and everyone who says you can pvp from day is is an idiot cause the only think you can kill is same level players or go in a big group and do minimal damage or just use modules to scramble/web. There is no real pvp at the beggining without the necesarry skills, you can try but u ll either get blown up either be in a group and have minimal impact on the fights outcome(expect if u web/scramble which is important). PvP in eve is more about planning, execution in combat isnt that big... Winning and older player which has better overall statistics early is a myth expect if player is afk or just stupid and doesnt know how to play at all, eve is not rocket science... if 2 same skilled players play with same ships the one with the more skill points for HIS SHIPS MODULES will win(not generally more skill points)
Like people keep saying, there's only 5 levels per skill, and there's only so many skills per ship. The advantage of an older player is just having a greater variety of ships to fly and things to do.
I have my own issues with the business model, but it's not so much how the skills are trained, rather is the fact you can only train one character at a time per account, which forces players to use multiple accounts if they want to experience different aspects of the game.
As for miners getting godly amounts of isk, yeah they can make lots of isk, but the risk is great because you have to be in low sec, 0.0, or a wormhole to get anything of worth. You can make more in pve with less risk by farming npc pirates in 0.0 or running sleeper sites in wormholes.
I have only good things to say about plex, it basically allows you play for free, and at the same time cuts down on the amount of isk sellers in the game.
There's more than one kind of skill, in Eve you're right, there's no twitch type skill needed, but you do need to be skilled in strategy and tactics. If you want a space based game with twitch skills there are two games coming up that I believe would be more to your liking; Jumpgate Evolution and Black Prophecy.
I know of people who have jumped in the game and joined factional warfare right off the bat and had a ball. It is players who are afraid to commit to pvp who have trouble finding that fun factor right away. I've never been much of a pvp person myself and have been happy enough with mining/industry, but I wouldn't mind trying the pvp aspect of the game as well.
Last but not least, joining a good corp can make all the difference. An active and organized corp can have you having fun in no time at all. You don't have to have a lot of skill points to go pvp or pve with corp mates. Some people make having fun way harder in this game than it has to be. In my experience it's not the game but the person and the people they play with which determines whether or not they are going to have any fun. Yeah you're likely to lose ships, but that's just part of the game.
Funny how those not proper english speaking people are disgusted about a fuckin sentence.
I mean there are so many people in the world which are not even able to understand this sentence.
You did understand it, your english is sufficient enough!
btw... I am drunk and my english is not that good, so forgive me for this post
the game itself does not lend to a very appealing early player experience. It's a spreadsheet game that trys real hard to promote itself as a semi space sim with riveting combat and it simply isn't. if ever were more like say homeworld in terms of combat and graphics it would be a very appealing game to alot more people. Theres enough backstabbing and corporate espinoage in the real world who the hell needs it in a game, games are supposed to be fun first.
so say we all
You base your entire argument on the least possible scenario to ever occur in EVE Online, and then accuse the other person of presenting an imaginary example. I'm not sure you realize the humor there.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Yes, similar or even same ships and the opponent wasn't afk...
Also, you have to understand that level 5 skills represent 1/5 of the benefit you can get from the skill but it cost you like 50% of the total skill points invested. So having lvl 5 skills takes huge amount of skill points for very little gain.
I never said you dislike EVE, I am just saying you make assumption about how you think the game works without prior experience to support your claims.
Hehe
If this was really happening, you might make a point. (Un)fortunately for you, it isn't.
Total amount of skill points does not determine their distribution. This isn't level based game where 10M skills points is better than 5M skill points.