if 2 same skilled players play with same ships the one with the more skill points for HIS SHIPS MODULES will win(not generally more skill points)
If this was really happening, you might make a point. (Un)fortunately for you, it isn't.
Total amount of skill points does not determine their distribution. This isn't level based game where 10M skills points is better than 5M skill points.
I think i said its about the ship modules(modules,shield, weapon damage skills) and not generally about more skill points
Its basic theory a person with 1000 hp and 100 damage will win a person with 900 hp and 90 damage, if there is little difference its simply based on who fired first therefore havin an advantage this the las volley kills the more powerful enemy before he fires his last volley and kills you
Its a simple example eve just has a lot more variable, a player with more skills points for his ship/modules will have more cpu/energy thus allowing you to use top modules and use the most effective ones, will have higher shield, shield regen, rate of fire, damage, energy, energy consumption, resistances, all those become an advantage against a person who in the same skills only has lvl 1-3
Yes, similar or even same ships and the opponent wasn't afk...
Also, you have to understand that level 5 skills represent 1/5 of the benefit you can get from the skill but it cost you like 50% of the total skill points invested. So having lvl 5 skills takes huge amount of skill points for very little gain.
I never said you dislike EVE, I am just saying you make assumption about how you think the game works without prior experience to support your claims.
you get that a lot from people who don't really understand the mechanics of those skills.. like the difference between level 4 and level 5.. the bonuses those levels make can be only 1 percent.... most of the time they just enable you to use a particular piece of equipment... admittedly though, in tanking skills every percentage point makes a difference.. but.. its the tactics used in any engagement that makes the difference, sure you can have tech II guns that can do a tonne of damage up close, but.. if someones using a tracking disruptor on you.. those guns are far less likely to do any damage, same with fast ships vs missiles.. for every offensive measure there is a defensive one, or a countering tactic... people get too bogged down with seeing levels of stuff in Eve.. that they overlook the fact that in a fight.. its not the levels that will determine the outcome.. its why PVP in Eve is a more level playing field, something you can't say about most other games that have PVP in, where levels determine everything. One of the reasons tbh, why i think the PVP in games like WoW are so rubbish - and thats as a WoW player!
Originally posted by Wolfy2449 I think i said its about the ship modules(modules,shield, weapon damage skills) and not generally about more skill points Its basic theory a person with 1000 hp and 100 damage will win a person with 900 hp and 90 damage, if there is little difference its simply based on who fired first therefore havin an advantage this the las volley kills the more powerful enemy before he fires his last volley and kills you
Except as pointed out, your theory is purely hypothetical only and has no backing up in how the game really works.
Your theory would need to include conditions:
1) The players must be equally skilled and make no mistakes. 2) It must be the same ships. 3) The ships must have same setups. 4) The engagement starts at predefined conditions that do not allow any possible advantage for any pilot.
If the conditions are met, then your theory would be valid.
The problem is, those conditions are impossible to ensure and provide, making the theory unrealistic and inapplicable.
I think i said its about the ship modules(modules,shield, weapon damage skills) and not generally about more skill points
Its basic theory a person with 1000 hp and 100 damage will win a person with 900 hp and 90 damage, if there is little difference its simply based on who fired first therefore havin an advantage this the las volley kills the more powerful enemy before he fires his last volley and kills you
Except as pointed out, your theory is purely hypothetical only and has no backing up in how the game really works.
Your theory would need to include conditions:
1) The players must be equally skilled and make no mistakes.
2) It must be the same ships.
3) The ships must have same setups.
4) The engagement starts at predefined conditions that do not allow any possible advantage for any pilot.
If the conditions are met, then your theory would be valid.
The problem is, those conditions are impossible to ensure and provide, making the theory unrealistic and inapplicable.
also have to take into account that everyone has their own idea of what the best setup for a given ship is... you can have a dozen rifters flown by different pilots and each one will have a different setup.. and fight in a different way.. the most telling factor in any fight.. particularly in one on one encounters - about the only time that happens is encounters with bait ships in low sec... and thats just so they can keep you there until their friends arrive.. but the most telling factor is the players own abilities..
I think i said its about the ship modules(modules,shield, weapon damage skills) and not generally about more skill points
Its basic theory a person with 1000 hp and 100 damage will win a person with 900 hp and 90 damage, if there is little difference its simply based on who fired first therefore havin an advantage this the las volley kills the more powerful enemy before he fires his last volley and kills you
Except as pointed out, your theory is purely hypothetical only and has no backing up in how the game really works.
Your theory would need to include conditions:
1) The players must be equally skilled and make no mistakes.
2) It must be the same ships.
3) The ships must have same setups.
4) The engagement starts at predefined conditions that do not allow any possible advantage for any pilot.
If the conditions are met, then your theory would be valid.
The problem is, those conditions are impossible to ensure and provide, making the theory unrealistic and inapplicable.
Then it is not balanced pvp, its ganging or gaining an advantage which doesnt really have anything to do with balanced 1v1 pvp
In an mmo that focuses on balanced pvp every class should have an equal chance of winning against another clas(in eves case that are no classes its about same ships since you cant compare ships to counter ships). Skills affect balanced pvp in a situation that 1 player sleeps for the first 10 seconds of the encounter or is forced to fight a 3v1 of course the skill points matter less, still skill points are important and still make a difference
Originally posted by Wolfy2449 Then it is not balanced pvp, its ganging or gaining an advantage which doesnt really have anything to do with balanced 1v1 pvp
Now it is just getting ridiculous and I am quitting in the discussion.
Your theory and perception on the game was pointed out as invalid because it does not occur under real game conditions yet you keep backing your claims with same flawed assumptions.
Then it is not balanced pvp, its ganging or gaining an advantage which doesnt really have anything to do with balanced 1v1 pvp
In an mmo that focuses on balanced pvp every class should have an equal chance of winning against another clas(in eves case that are no classes its about same ships since you cant compare ships to counter ships). Skills affect balanced pvp in a situation that 1 player sleeps for the first 10 seconds of the encounter or is forced to fight a 3v1 of course the skill points matter less, still skill points are important and still make a difference
No game ever made could balance PvP to your standards. If they did the game would be ridiculously boring...everybody would attack for 10 points of damage and healers would all heal for 10 points of damage and nobody would ever die.
People who whine about balanced PvP usually don't understand what they are really asking for.
Then it is not balanced pvp, its ganging or gaining an advantage which doesnt really have anything to do with balanced 1v1 pvp
In an mmo that focuses on balanced pvp every class should have an equal chance of winning against another clas(in eves case that are no classes its about same ships since you cant compare ships to counter ships). Skills affect balanced pvp in a situation that 1 player sleeps for the first 10 seconds of the encounter or is forced to fight a 3v1 of course the skill points matter less, still skill points are important and still make a difference
Absolutely not. You cannot generalize balance as balance in 1v1 situation. In a game with specific party roles there shouldn't be 1v1 balance. It is ludicrous. A healer shouldn't be able to kill a tank in 1v1. A logistics ship cannot kill one HAC in 1on1. 2 logistics ships shoudln't be able kill 2 HACs.
Eve has roles like any other MMORPG. The different ships are roughly the equivalent of classes and fittings make different builds. Fleets have builds like Guild Wars has party builds or Magic the Gathering has decks (although in Eve, you may have more/better characters/cards than the opponent).
I admit that Eve has a balance problem within those roles. Within the same role, or ship class, some ships are simply better than others. Eve is far from balanced, but it is somewhat equally imbalanced that it isn't totally rubbish. Ship/module balancing in Eve is very infrequent and slow compared to say Guild Wars.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Then it is not balanced pvp, its ganging or gaining an advantage which doesnt really have anything to do with balanced 1v1 pvp
In an mmo that focuses on balanced pvp every class should have an equal chance of winning against another clas(in eves case that are no classes its about same ships since you cant compare ships to counter ships). Skills affect balanced pvp in a situation that 1 player sleeps for the first 10 seconds of the encounter or is forced to fight a 3v1 of course the skill points matter less, still skill points are important and still make a difference
MMOs don't work like that broseph. Maybe you should try an FPS like CoD: Black OPs, just don't use sniper rifles or shotguns... oh wait...
Then it is not balanced pvp, its ganging or gaining an advantage which doesnt really have anything to do with balanced 1v1 pvp
In an mmo that focuses on balanced pvp every class should have an equal chance of winning against another clas(in eves case that are no classes its about same ships since you cant compare ships to counter ships). Skills affect balanced pvp in a situation that 1 player sleeps for the first 10 seconds of the encounter or is forced to fight a 3v1 of course the skill points matter less, still skill points are important and still make a difference
Absolutely not. You cannot generalize balance as balance in 1v1 situation. In a game with specific party roles there shouldn't be 1v1 balance. It is ludicrous. A healer shouldn't be able to kill a tank in 1v1. A logistics ship cannot kill one HAC in 1on1. 2 logistics ships shoudln't be able kill 2 HACs.
Eve has roles like any other MMORPG. The different ships are roughly the equivalent of classes and fittings make different builds. Fleets have builds like Guild Wars has party builds or Magic the Gathering has decks (although in Eve, you may have more/better characters/cards than the opponent).
I admit that Eve has a balance problem within those roles. Within the same role, or ship class, some ships are simply better than others. Eve is far from balanced, but it is somewhat equally imbalanced that it isn't totally rubbish. Ship/module balancing in Eve is very infrequent and slow compared to say Guild Wars.
K, i understand that eve might be different but you call rock paper sciscors pvp balanced??? Every class should be able to have an equal chance or there is no point in fighting certain classes meaning you are going to lose 100%, sorry but when your class is deliberetaly countered by another one its not pvp balance... Team is another story but team was never as important as 1v1 at least in most pvp focused games
EVE has always been biased towards fleet pvp of all sizes and not balanced towards solo pvp, and most ships where designed around roles in those fleets. Think of Star Wars space battles when you see ships of all different sizes supporting each other and working as a team.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
The balance comes from the player not the game. This is where strategy, picking your targets, and knowing your capabilities comes into play, nay, balance. If I'm out looking for solo PvP I will often look at the "birth date" of the pilots in local. If I spot a juicy target on the scanner and the only characters in local are from 2004 I'm not likely to engage. Should I expect the devs to balance PvP around this scenario or should I use my brain and choose my battles? I would rather play a game were PvP requires thought than one that is balanced to make everybody "equal".
EVE has always been biased towards fleet pvp of all sizes and not balanced towards solo pvp, and most ships where designed around roles in those fleets. Think of Star Wars space battles when you see ships of all different sizes supporting each other and working as a team.
Exactly, that i meant when i said unbalanced pvp, its team vs team and not 1v1 which is about each players individual skill, i didnt mean its unbalanced overall. And its based too much on which fleet has a tactical or counterguess or number advantage which imo is not balanced since the fight is one sided most of the times.
And my theory was a perfect situation for any kind of pvp game that focuses on competitive pvp(obviously for those who did not understand, what i said is a very basic example, the base of pvp u might say, not the pvp itself....)
Back to the main topic, since its like lineage rock paper sciscors that means that skill points matter less as long as you are on the counter ship but they still matter a lot in case of similar ships. Skill points matter, the difference might seem small but all those gathered together give you an advantage in a balanced pvp situation
picking your targets
That is not really balance because it makes you only attack when you have an unfair advantage or you know you will win, when someone has 89% win rate against a same skilled player its not balance. Winning an unfair situation is nothing really, its one sided an boring
Being able to do the things you said is about thinking and real world tactics balance not fair pvp balance
EVE has always been biased towards fleet pvp of all sizes and not balanced towards solo pvp, and most ships where designed around roles in those fleets. Think of Star Wars space battles when you see ships of all different sizes supporting each other and working as a team.
Exactly, that i meant when i said unbalanced pvp, its team vs team and not 1v1 which is about each players individual skill, i didnt mean its unbalanced overall. And its based too much on which fleet has a tactical or counterguess or number advantage which imo is not balanced since the fight is one sided most of the times.
And my theory was a perfect situation for any kind of pvp game that focuses on competitive pvp(obviously for those who did not understand, what i said is a very basic example, the base of pvp u might say, not the pvp itself....)
Back to the main topic, since its like lineage rock paper sciscors that means that skill points matter less as long as you are on the counter ship but they still matter a lot in case of similar ships. Skill points matter, the difference might seem small but all those gathered together give you an advantage in a balanced pvp situation
Why does pvping in a fleet not require player skill? it does not replace a pilots ability to fly his ship or his combat experience and self preservation instinct how else do you think a fleet of 50 guys can destroy a 150 man fleet? if the pilots are idiots it doesn't matter how many SP they have or how good the FC is if they cannot keep themselves alive and actually do what is required.
Note also that I said fleets of all sizes and this means small gang combat and pilot skills is even more important here because if one pilot in an 8 man gang gets it wrong it can easily cost everyone their ships.
You like many other people also never seem to be able to understand that if someone doesn't know what they are doing SP does not matter and how that some extra 2% bonuses can easily be defeated by good ship handling and good module management. Unless you have spent years pvping like many of the people who try to make you understand have your opinion cannot be informed.
So either accept what people are trying to tell you or go and find out yourself or you are being ignorant and another Internet smart alek talking about what he doesn't understand.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
K, i understand that eve might be different but you call rock paper sciscors pvp balanced??? Every class should be able to have an equal chance or there is no point in fighting certain classes meaning you are going to lose 100%, sorry but when your class is deliberetaly countered by another one its not pvp balance... Team is another story but team was never as important as 1v1 at least in most pvp focused games
The group roles create the RPS to PvP. Most of todays games are balanced around a group. You're living in the past.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
That is not really balance because it makes you only attack when you have an unfair advantage or you know you will win, when someone has 89% win rate against a same skilled player its not balance. Winning an unfair situation is nothing really, its one sided an boring
Being able to do the things you said is about thinking and real world tactics balance not fair pvp balance
You are confusing dueling with warfare. Two different styles of PVP gameplay, neither one better than the other.
In warfare, your artillery cannons are constantly picking off my planes, so I come in with tanks. You then turn your artillery cannons on my tanks and keep me at bay that way. Since your artillery cannons shoot farther than my tanks, I send in foot troops ahead of the tanks to take out your AC specialists so my tanks can roll in. You then send your own infantry to take out mine and return to firing at my tanks. In response, I put sandbags on the front of my tanks to absorbe the impact and render your cannons useless. You are correct - warfare is about thinking. I'd add in preparing, knowing your enemy and mastery of one's selected offense/defense.
In a duel, we both start with an artillery cannon or both start with tanks. In an MMO duel, the guy with the purple cannon/tank won before the battle started.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Just registered to say thanks for this. Not sure if you made it or not, but it was useful today predicting where the Sansha would come from. Now I just need to get people to listen to me better next time.
It seemed like a rite of passage to finish your learning skills. Oh well, change is change.. and the only thing we can count on is things will indeed change.
I honestly don't care either way I guess. It just removes something a bit special for those that went through it.
Like removing the need to stare at your spellbook in order to med (instead of just sitting) in EverQuest until level 35. They removed a huge rite a passage right there. That made getting level 35 a huge deal for casters. Then of course things will way downhill from there.
Eve is a great game and the things to do in it are endless, but as everyone has seen on the Eve learning curve chart it isn't that noob friendly. This was a step in the right direction but I still feel that they need to reward players for time playing the game not just time paying for the game. They would vastly increase their playerbase if they could manage.
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth."
Eve is a great game and the things to do in it are endless, but as everyone has seen on the Eve learning curve chart it isn't that noob friendly. This was a step in the right direction but I still feel that they need to reward players for time playing the game not just time paying for the game. They would vastly increase their playerbase if they could manage.
That's what ISK is for. You can't do jack in this game w/out ISK, and the more you play... the more opportunity you have to make it. Wanna roll around in a beastly Tengu instead of a vanilla Drake? Play more and make more ISK. If you've ever flown T2-T3 ships you know thats a hell of a difference (aka reward).
If anything, they'd lose a lot of their core playerbase that enjoy the realtime training method. A lot of people keep an account active even when they "aren't feeling it" just to keep their character training, which is why Eve has such a high retention rate. People are constantly progressing and coming back to the game to screw around w/ new skills they've obtained.
I'm suggesting adding a way to skill up faster while playing not ditch the real time training system. I enjoy the current system as is but most people are discouraged when they can't directly increase how fast they progress when they are logged in. ISK allows you to purchase items. It doesn't directly give you ability to use them aside from buying the skill books.
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth."
So let me get this straight. There's literally billions of Skill points to be earned in Eve.. So umm.. Why not trim down the skills even more? Billions.. That's crazy.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
So let me get this straight. There's literally billions of Skill points to be earned in Eve.. So umm.. Why not trim down the skills even more? Billions.. That's crazy.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Oh man, people would go crazy with rage!
If anything, they should add more skills. But I think you're saying cut down on the needed quantity of sp to gain lvls of each skill. That's something I might be able to support if they didn't cut it too much, but still, people would go ape shit. Really. They would lose a noteworthy number of subs over that decision. I don't see it happening.
So let me get this straight. There's literally billions of Skill points to be earned in Eve.. So umm.. Why not trim down the skills even more? Billions.. That's crazy.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Oh man, people would go crazy with rage!
If anything, they should add more skills. But I think you're saying cut down on the needed quantity of sp to gain lvls of each skill. That's something I might be able to support if they didn't cut it too much, but still, people would go ape shit. Really. They would lose a noteworthy number of subs over that decision. I don't see it happening.
Yeah, cutting down on the skill points is what I mean. Having to have 5 Skill points to learn a skill vs. 10,000 skill points just makes more sense, makes you feel like you're progressing somewhere, and keeps newcomers from feeling overwhelmed.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
It will take a couple of years for my guy to get him where I want him. Maybe even more than 3 years, so yeah, I definitely know where you're coming from.
Comments
I think i said its about the ship modules(modules,shield, weapon damage skills) and not generally about more skill points
Its basic theory a person with 1000 hp and 100 damage will win a person with 900 hp and 90 damage, if there is little difference its simply based on who fired first therefore havin an advantage this the las volley kills the more powerful enemy before he fires his last volley and kills you
Its a simple example eve just has a lot more variable, a player with more skills points for his ship/modules will have more cpu/energy thus allowing you to use top modules and use the most effective ones, will have higher shield, shield regen, rate of fire, damage, energy, energy consumption, resistances, all those become an advantage against a person who in the same skills only has lvl 1-3
you get that a lot from people who don't really understand the mechanics of those skills.. like the difference between level 4 and level 5.. the bonuses those levels make can be only 1 percent.... most of the time they just enable you to use a particular piece of equipment... admittedly though, in tanking skills every percentage point makes a difference.. but.. its the tactics used in any engagement that makes the difference, sure you can have tech II guns that can do a tonne of damage up close, but.. if someones using a tracking disruptor on you.. those guns are far less likely to do any damage, same with fast ships vs missiles.. for every offensive measure there is a defensive one, or a countering tactic... people get too bogged down with seeing levels of stuff in Eve.. that they overlook the fact that in a fight.. its not the levels that will determine the outcome.. its why PVP in Eve is a more level playing field, something you can't say about most other games that have PVP in, where levels determine everything. One of the reasons tbh, why i think the PVP in games like WoW are so rubbish - and thats as a WoW player!
Except as pointed out, your theory is purely hypothetical only and has no backing up in how the game really works.
Your theory would need to include conditions:
1) The players must be equally skilled and make no mistakes.
2) It must be the same ships.
3) The ships must have same setups.
4) The engagement starts at predefined conditions that do not allow any possible advantage for any pilot.
If the conditions are met, then your theory would be valid.
The problem is, those conditions are impossible to ensure and provide, making the theory unrealistic and inapplicable.
also have to take into account that everyone has their own idea of what the best setup for a given ship is... you can have a dozen rifters flown by different pilots and each one will have a different setup.. and fight in a different way.. the most telling factor in any fight.. particularly in one on one encounters - about the only time that happens is encounters with bait ships in low sec... and thats just so they can keep you there until their friends arrive
.. but the most telling factor is the players own abilities.. 
Then it is not balanced pvp, its ganging or gaining an advantage which doesnt really have anything to do with balanced 1v1 pvp
In an mmo that focuses on balanced pvp every class should have an equal chance of winning against another clas(in eves case that are no classes its about same ships since you cant compare ships to counter ships). Skills affect balanced pvp in a situation that 1 player sleeps for the first 10 seconds of the encounter or is forced to fight a 3v1 of course the skill points matter less, still skill points are important and still make a difference
Now it is just getting ridiculous and I am quitting in the discussion.
Your theory and perception on the game was pointed out as invalid because it does not occur under real game conditions yet you keep backing your claims with same flawed assumptions.
No game ever made could balance PvP to your standards. If they did the game would be ridiculously boring...everybody would attack for 10 points of damage and healers would all heal for 10 points of damage and nobody would ever die.
People who whine about balanced PvP usually don't understand what they are really asking for.
Absolutely not. You cannot generalize balance as balance in 1v1 situation. In a game with specific party roles there shouldn't be 1v1 balance. It is ludicrous. A healer shouldn't be able to kill a tank in 1v1. A logistics ship cannot kill one HAC in 1on1. 2 logistics ships shoudln't be able kill 2 HACs.
Eve has roles like any other MMORPG. The different ships are roughly the equivalent of classes and fittings make different builds. Fleets have builds like Guild Wars has party builds or Magic the Gathering has decks (although in Eve, you may have more/better characters/cards than the opponent).
I admit that Eve has a balance problem within those roles. Within the same role, or ship class, some ships are simply better than others. Eve is far from balanced, but it is somewhat equally imbalanced that it isn't totally rubbish. Ship/module balancing in Eve is very infrequent and slow compared to say Guild Wars.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
MMOs don't work like that broseph. Maybe you should try an FPS like CoD: Black OPs, just don't use sniper rifles or shotguns... oh wait...
K, i understand that eve might be different but you call rock paper sciscors pvp balanced??? Every class should be able to have an equal chance or there is no point in fighting certain classes meaning you are going to lose 100%, sorry but when your class is deliberetaly countered by another one its not pvp balance... Team is another story but team was never as important as 1v1 at least in most pvp focused games
EVE has always been biased towards fleet pvp of all sizes and not balanced towards solo pvp, and most ships where designed around roles in those fleets. Think of Star Wars space battles when you see ships of all different sizes supporting each other and working as a team.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
The balance comes from the player not the game. This is where strategy, picking your targets, and knowing your capabilities comes into play, nay, balance.
If I'm out looking for solo PvP I will often look at the "birth date" of the pilots in local. If I spot a juicy target on the scanner and the only characters in local are from 2004 I'm not likely to engage. Should I expect the devs to balance PvP around this scenario or should I use my brain and choose my battles? I would rather play a game were PvP requires thought than one that is balanced to make everybody "equal".
Exactly, that i meant when i said unbalanced pvp, its team vs team and not 1v1 which is about each players individual skill, i didnt mean its unbalanced overall. And its based too much on which fleet has a tactical or counterguess or number advantage which imo is not balanced since the fight is one sided most of the times.
And my theory was a perfect situation for any kind of pvp game that focuses on competitive pvp(obviously for those who did not understand, what i said is a very basic example, the base of pvp u might say, not the pvp itself....)
Back to the main topic, since its like lineage rock paper sciscors that means that skill points matter less as long as you are on the counter ship but they still matter a lot in case of similar ships. Skill points matter, the difference might seem small but all those gathered together give you an advantage in a balanced pvp situation
That is not really balance because it makes you only attack when you have an unfair advantage or you know you will win, when someone has 89% win rate against a same skilled player its not balance. Winning an unfair situation is nothing really, its one sided an boring
Being able to do the things you said is about thinking and real world tactics balance not fair pvp balance
Why does pvping in a fleet not require player skill? it does not replace a pilots ability to fly his ship or his combat experience and self preservation instinct how else do you think a fleet of 50 guys can destroy a 150 man fleet? if the pilots are idiots it doesn't matter how many SP they have or how good the FC is if they cannot keep themselves alive and actually do what is required.
Note also that I said fleets of all sizes and this means small gang combat and pilot skills is even more important here because if one pilot in an 8 man gang gets it wrong it can easily cost everyone their ships.
You like many other people also never seem to be able to understand that if someone doesn't know what they are doing SP does not matter and how that some extra 2% bonuses can easily be defeated by good ship handling and good module management. Unless you have spent years pvping like many of the people who try to make you understand have your opinion cannot be informed.
So either accept what people are trying to tell you or go and find out yourself or you are being ignorant and another Internet smart alek talking about what he doesn't understand.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
The group roles create the RPS to PvP. Most of todays games are balanced around a group. You're living in the past.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
You are confusing dueling with warfare. Two different styles of PVP gameplay, neither one better than the other.
In warfare, your artillery cannons are constantly picking off my planes, so I come in with tanks. You then turn your artillery cannons on my tanks and keep me at bay that way. Since your artillery cannons shoot farther than my tanks, I send in foot troops ahead of the tanks to take out your AC specialists so my tanks can roll in. You then send your own infantry to take out mine and return to firing at my tanks. In response, I put sandbags on the front of my tanks to absorbe the impact and render your cannons useless. You are correct - warfare is about thinking. I'd add in preparing, knowing your enemy and mastery of one's selected offense/defense.
In a duel, we both start with an artillery cannon or both start with tanks. In an MMO duel, the guy with the purple cannon/tank won before the battle started.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Just registered to say thanks for this. Not sure if you made it or not, but it was useful today predicting where the Sansha would come from. Now I just need to get people to listen to me better next time.
Arisoue
It seemed like a rite of passage to finish your learning skills. Oh well, change is change.. and the only thing we can count on is things will indeed change.
I honestly don't care either way I guess. It just removes something a bit special for those that went through it.
Like removing the need to stare at your spellbook in order to med (instead of just sitting) in EverQuest until level 35. They removed a huge rite a passage right there. That made getting level 35 a huge deal for casters. Then of course things will way downhill from there.
See it whatever way you'd like to.
Acidon
EDIT: Clarification
Eve is a great game and the things to do in it are endless, but as everyone has seen on the Eve learning curve chart it isn't that noob friendly. This was a step in the right direction but I still feel that they need to reward players for time playing the game not just time paying for the game. They would vastly increase their playerbase if they could manage.
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth."
That's what ISK is for. You can't do jack in this game w/out ISK, and the more you play... the more opportunity you have to make it. Wanna roll around in a beastly Tengu instead of a vanilla Drake? Play more and make more ISK. If you've ever flown T2-T3 ships you know thats a hell of a difference (aka reward).
If anything, they'd lose a lot of their core playerbase that enjoy the realtime training method. A lot of people keep an account active even when they "aren't feeling it" just to keep their character training, which is why Eve has such a high retention rate. People are constantly progressing and coming back to the game to screw around w/ new skills they've obtained.
I'm suggesting adding a way to skill up faster while playing not ditch the real time training system. I enjoy the current system as is but most people are discouraged when they can't directly increase how fast they progress when they are logged in. ISK allows you to purchase items. It doesn't directly give you ability to use them aside from buying the skill books.
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth."
So let me get this straight. There's literally billions of Skill points to be earned in Eve.. So umm.. Why not trim down the skills even more? Billions.. That's crazy.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
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Oh man, people would go crazy with rage!
If anything, they should add more skills. But I think you're saying cut down on the needed quantity of sp to gain lvls of each skill. That's something I might be able to support if they didn't cut it too much, but still, people would go ape shit. Really. They would lose a noteworthy number of subs over that decision. I don't see it happening.
Yeah, cutting down on the skill points is what I mean. Having to have 5 Skill points to learn a skill vs. 10,000 skill points just makes more sense, makes you feel like you're progressing somewhere, and keeps newcomers from feeling overwhelmed.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
It will take a couple of years for my guy to get him where I want him. Maybe even more than 3 years, so yeah, I definitely know where you're coming from.