If CCP does one thing well it's always adding content. I beta tested Eve way back when. I remember sitting in a basement with my friends lanning and they all asked what are i was playing. There was so little back then.
Look at Eve now. Titans, plantet farming, and who knows what's next. There is always something you can be learning. They never skimped on skills to learn from what I've seen. The problem is people who start playing tomorrow are so far behind people who have been paying since it launched for a character to be train. They are slowly taking the steps towards closing that gap. Now I am in no way advocating that someone who starts tomorrow should be caught up to someone who's been playing since release but they should however be able to compete with them on certain levels with them. How that's done is CCP's problem.
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth."
Removing learning skills is something I've never been in support of. I like the deapth it adds, rewards patience, it's metgame with no direct affects on combat but it's still a part of the game.
However I am vastly outnumbered by those who find this part of the game boring, they want it removed so CCP deciding to side with them isn't something worth lots of complaining.
Originally posted by EricDanie
For those who haven't understood, you're losing NOTHING.
Sadly not true, we lost the 10% bonus to attributes.
In exchange we got +2 for each attribute. This will give you an advantage only if you had very well spread attributes and low implants. The moment you get more than +5 from the 14 remmapable and implants your worse off. This is an advantage for brand new players but it's worse off when players start trying to pick and specialise which should happen around about the time the trial period ends. When you completely spec you lose a whole 72 sp/hour out of 2772 sp/hour (the horror), though I'm sure the future players will love knowing you could train faster in the past.
Still this is a very minor problem considering the massive positive removing learning skills is. The thing I'm conserned about is why are they doing this? Why not find some way to keep the 10%?
WHY DIDN'T YOU DO (THING WHICH IS MORE COMPLICATED/EXTENSIVE, EVEN IF ONLY BY A SMALL MARGIN)?
As above, we have a tight timeframe here, so we're deliberately doing the smallest possible set of changes that seem fair and acceptable. We're sorry, but while your suggestion for completely redesigning the entire skills system from scratch is clearly hella awesome, we just don't have time.
Really getting sick of the lack of polish or refinement in eve. Ironic on one hand they try to improve it by delaying their expansion on the other hand their saying we aren't gonna do a better more complex system cause we're in a rush.
No, unless you had perfect learning skills across the board, you lose nothing. Sadly you are mistaken. There is no downside to this learning skill change except to those people with perfect learning skills. Those people are very few, and the negative effect to them is somewhat minor.
Yeah, cutting down on the skill points is what I mean. Having to have 5 Skill points to learn a skill vs. 10,000 skill points just makes more sense, makes you feel like you're progressing somewhere, and keeps newcomers from feeling overwhelmed.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
What difference does it make? Skill progression would just be measured by the decimal place then.
As above, we have a tight timeframe here, so we're deliberately doing the smallest possible set of changes that seem fair and acceptable. We're sorry, but while your suggestion for completely redesigning the entire skills system from scratch is clearly hella awesome, we just don't have time.
Really getting sick of the lack of polish or refinement in eve. Ironic on one hand they try to improve it by delaying their expansion on the other hand their saying we aren't gonna do a better more complex system cause we're in a rush.
Well I suppose they could just not release any change to the skill system and then push back the next couple expansions so you could get your 10%. They would be great...
Seriously, the change they are implementing is perfectly fine. Anyone whining about it needs to get a freakin' life, its not that big of an issue... and is a serious improvement to 95% of the game's population (and every new player that ever joins the game)
Removing learning skills is something I've never been in support of. I like the deapth it adds, rewards patience, it's metgame with no direct affects on combat but it's still a part of the game.
However I am vastly outnumbered by those who find this part of the game boring, they want it removed so CCP deciding to side with them isn't something worth lots of complaining.
I keep seeing this statement about learning skills adding depth or complexity to the game. Could you explain exactly how? They are skills that make other skills train faster. They don't affect any other part of the game. There's zero complexity there.
They basically caused a ton of people to quit the game in their first month because they were told they needed to train learning skills...so they sat in a station in their frigate and did nothing but train learning skills, got bored and quit.
Like others have said, you're getting your SP back and your attributes are being bumped so you're not losing anything. It's not dumbing down the game--it's simply removing an awkward mechanic that should never have been put in the game in the first place.
They basically caused a ton of people to quit the game in their first month because they were told they needed to train learning skills...so they sat in a station in their frigate and did nothing but train learning skills, got bored and quit.
Nobody was ever told they *needed* to raise the learning skills, it was just something to let the timer run on while you take a break from the game... yet still pay for the sub monthly.
...
Yes, there is definitely still something wrong with that.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Nobody was ever told they *needed* to raise the learning skills, it was just something to let the timer run on while you take a break from the game... yet still pay for the sub monthly.
...
Yes, there is definitely still something wrong with that.
...I know a shitton of people who were told they needed to raise their learning skills as the first thing they did in game.
There are even examples of people who tell others to do so on these forums.
|< I 1 1 I |\| 6 _ Z 0 |\/| 8 I 3 5 _ 5 I |\| C 3 _ 1 9 9 0
They basically caused a ton of people to quit the game in their first month because they were told they needed to train learning skills...so they sat in a station in their frigate and did nothing but train learning skills, got bored and quit.
This is the main reason that I, personally, am glad to see these skills gone.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Nobody was ever told they *needed* to raise the learning skills, it was just something to let the timer run on while you take a break from the game... yet still pay for the sub monthly.
...
Yes, there is definitely still something wrong with that.
...I know a shitton of people who were told they needed to raise their learning skills as the first thing they did in game.
There are even examples of people who tell others to do so on these forums.
Yeah, it's generally the first thing a new player hears. I was told this and I've heard many many others being told this. It had nothing to do with taking a break or anything of that sort, it had to do with increasing the rate of learning for your character. Not to mention it increased your attributes a good deal, making it a neccessity. When learning skills can nearly double an attribute and the rate of learning to skills associated with that attribute, don't tell me people aren't going to think it's a neccessity.
Comments
If CCP does one thing well it's always adding content. I beta tested Eve way back when. I remember sitting in a basement with my friends lanning and they all asked what are i was playing. There was so little back then.
Look at Eve now. Titans, plantet farming, and who knows what's next. There is always something you can be learning. They never skimped on skills to learn from what I've seen. The problem is people who start playing tomorrow are so far behind people who have been paying since it launched for a character to be train. They are slowly taking the steps towards closing that gap. Now I am in no way advocating that someone who starts tomorrow should be caught up to someone who's been playing since release but they should however be able to compete with them on certain levels with them. How that's done is CCP's problem.
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth."
Removing learning skills is something I've never been in support of. I like the deapth it adds, rewards patience, it's metgame with no direct affects on combat but it's still a part of the game.
However I am vastly outnumbered by those who find this part of the game boring, they want it removed so CCP deciding to side with them isn't something worth lots of complaining.
Sadly not true, we lost the 10% bonus to attributes.
In exchange we got +2 for each attribute. This will give you an advantage only if you had very well spread attributes and low implants. The moment you get more than +5 from the 14 remmapable and implants your worse off. This is an advantage for brand new players but it's worse off when players start trying to pick and specialise which should happen around about the time the trial period ends. When you completely spec you lose a whole 72 sp/hour out of 2772 sp/hour (the horror), though I'm sure the future players will love knowing you could train faster in the past.
Still this is a very minor problem considering the massive positive removing learning skills is. The thing I'm conserned about is why are they doing this? Why not find some way to keep the 10%?
WHY DIDN'T YOU DO (THING WHICH IS MORE COMPLICATED/EXTENSIVE, EVEN IF ONLY BY A SMALL MARGIN)?
As above, we have a tight timeframe here, so we're deliberately doing the smallest possible set of changes that seem fair and acceptable. We're sorry, but while your suggestion for completely redesigning the entire skills system from scratch is clearly hella awesome, we just don't have time.
Really getting sick of the lack of polish or refinement in eve. Ironic on one hand they try to improve it by delaying their expansion on the other hand their saying we aren't gonna do a better more complex system cause we're in a rush.
Into the breach meatbags
No, unless you had perfect learning skills across the board, you lose nothing. Sadly you are mistaken. There is no downside to this learning skill change except to those people with perfect learning skills. Those people are very few, and the negative effect to them is somewhat minor.
What difference does it make? Skill progression would just be measured by the decimal place then.
Well I suppose they could just not release any change to the skill system and then push back the next couple expansions so you could get your 10%. They would be great...
Seriously, the change they are implementing is perfectly fine. Anyone whining about it needs to get a freakin' life, its not that big of an issue... and is a serious improvement to 95% of the game's population (and every new player that ever joins the game)
I think the new system is better if you ask me.
Keep on rockin'!
I keep seeing this statement about learning skills adding depth or complexity to the game. Could you explain exactly how? They are skills that make other skills train faster. They don't affect any other part of the game. There's zero complexity there.
They basically caused a ton of people to quit the game in their first month because they were told they needed to train learning skills...so they sat in a station in their frigate and did nothing but train learning skills, got bored and quit.
Like others have said, you're getting your SP back and your attributes are being bumped so you're not losing anything. It's not dumbing down the game--it's simply removing an awkward mechanic that should never have been put in the game in the first place.
Nobody was ever told they *needed* to raise the learning skills, it was just something to let the timer run on while you take a break from the game... yet still pay for the sub monthly.
...
Yes, there is definitely still something wrong with that.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
...I know a shitton of people who were told they needed to raise their learning skills as the first thing they did in game.
There are even examples of people who tell others to do so on these forums.
Follow my tweet (:
This is the main reason that I, personally, am glad to see these skills gone.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Yeah, it's generally the first thing a new player hears. I was told this and I've heard many many others being told this. It had nothing to do with taking a break or anything of that sort, it had to do with increasing the rate of learning for your character. Not to mention it increased your attributes a good deal, making it a neccessity. When learning skills can nearly double an attribute and the rate of learning to skills associated with that attribute, don't tell me people aren't going to think it's a neccessity.