At least they have honor in defeat... Not charging a dime for this mess was the only thing to do for it to have any chance of coming back one day. Great news!
Now, I didn't see anywhere that they were going to scrap the leves system... thats where they need to start imo.
Unless thats what they mean by " addressing these issues will call for a reworking of game elements."
Tbh though, they will have to pull a miracle out of thin air to bring this game back to compete with the 2011 heavy hitters.
Originally posted by theartist So someone took the fall for a whole lot of bad choices. Good on him. I wonder if he got bumped down to making those Square PSP remakes? Or forced to commit seppuku? Now just another year and it'll be playable.
I wouldn't worry to much. Tanaka is still Senior Vice President of Software Development for SE. Just having him step down will be good for the game and for him as well. Having what some call "The biggest flot of 2010" on your shoulder is hard to bare. Having him out of the spot light and the director's chair is a good thing for all parties.
This game had a bad launch just like XI did, well a bit worse. Difference is only JP saw the worst of XI for the initial 6 months. In XIV it was released globally. All the fixes were coming whether the dev team got changed or not. Most of the team responsible for XI are off XIV's development now. I loved XI alot and was delighted to know the team responsible for it were designing XIV. Despite some of the things being implemented sub par initially. I was happy to see the game trying to be different from XI. Now I can't see the new design team willing to try and innovate or take many risk due to this restructuring. I assume this game will become loads more accessible but leaning more towards an XI-2 now.(Fear of job security)
And nothing is bad about an XI-2, I was just looking for a different experience. I guess I am going to play Guild Wars 2 & TOR for awhile. And be on a wait and see approach on if XIV differentiates itself enough from XI to determine If I play or not. I still don't know if the team restructuring is a good thing or not till I see how things pan out. I'm prolly one of the few on these forums who isn't jumping for joy just yet. I am just a little confused how Tanaka who played a big hand in XI, Xenogears, Secret Of Mana 1, and FF III. Is the sole person to blame for all of XIV's woes. Is the producer role that encompassing?
I appreciate the honesty and the commitment, no matter the cost and staff changes needed to make the game into something great. I never liked Tanaka, he lost his Mojo a long time ago (if he ever had it).
Not compaining, free to play until it's done sounds fine with me.
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
Now I sort of wonder about what some people actually want to complain. This step is sure a surprise to read, well I do not mind about this even as I like the game currently already.I wonder how strong it will be changed over the next months.
I appreciate the honesty and the commitment, no matter the cost and staff changes needed to make the game into something great. I never liked Tanaka, he lost his Mojo a long time ago (if he ever had it).
Not compaining, free to play until it's done sounds fine with me.
But, but ... I thought you allways said there was nothing wrong with the game.
That it was us idiots who didn't understand how we were supposed to play it, that we were intelligently challenged and the game wasn't for us. /end sarcasm
In regards to the op, this part is interesting.
"It is because of this that we ask our customers to be patient until we are able to confidently present them with a concrete plan outlining FINAL FANTASY XIV’s new direction."
So now they know something is not right, but they apparently still don't know which action to take, while pleaing for patience from their players.
I'm sorry to say this, they allready knew this during beta. They should have taken this approach during beta and not release the game at all.
I know there was probably a lot of internal politics going on and it takes alot of guts to admit the stuff in the op, but for the love of God I don't understand why they still don't have a solid strategy associated with this bold confession.
Time is running out SE, and it is running out fast. If you manage to still save this game you will have earned my respect, but as of now I'm very sceptical.
I wonder if he got bumped down to making those Square PSP remakes?
Hey, SE is the best PSP developer out there. Those games are awesome.
Eh? If I could pat you on the head and offer you a cookie I would do so. And not with a windowless van near by or anything.
Still I'd like to see some of the early Secret of Mana games get made with a graphics overhaul. Nothing else, just graphics. Even the spelling mistakes, keep them there.
BOLD move ,but one that is only a publicity stunt.The yhave already shown me that they REFUSE to admit to bad game design,all they are doing is adding patches to a bucket full of holes.This new guy on the block will not be bold enough to make big decisions,like i said this is just a new puppet to take the fall,nothing is going to change.
Auction house,extra menus,time sinks all over like fishing[still boring],Harvesting is more menus ,more time sink.Crafting is more time sink than ever and players SHOULD be allowed to craft for themselves and not rely on others.
Questing...that is all it is ,calling them Leves is ridiculous.Adding time limits is again a dumb idea,i like to feel relaxed playing,i don't want to have a stop watch on me.Get rid of the ridiclous aura things you have to touch to activate your quest.These are just same old quests,nothing has changed,keep it simple the way quests are always done,talk to npc go do quest...simple.If they wanted to make change,then make some cool quests that are fun,as is people look to Leves as just another leveling tool,the way Wow/EQ2 does quests.
It looks like Square Enix has been blindfolded to all the mistakes from FFXI.They have taken what works and made it worse and what wasn't good and made it even worse yet.Yes looks totally incompetent,but i feel the whole game needs to be scrapped and it won't,so a new team will do nothing to improve this game.
A perect example ,scrap the ridiculous market wards,a patch by adding search function is NOT the proper design,a simpler Auction house that DOES work and is proven in all games IS the proper design.Again this will not happen,Market Wards are there to stay ,you can bet on it.
Combat from FFXI was the main reason i loved the game,and of course the class structure was awesome.All i wanted to see is improvements on TP use and maybe add soemthing new like a feedback system if maybe for exampel 3-4 players perform a chained weapon skills.Improve the the tp use so players have more choice in 200/300 tp use,allow more viable options to magic bursts.They could have added AA and make race even more of a choice than FFXI was,make it so players feel their race matters and is not just a cosmetic venture.
It saddens me to see how little the staff at SE learned,i really wanted this to be my final resting place,a game i could brag about ,it just won't happen ,i realize that now,well i have realized it for the last several months,way back when i read all the horrible decisions they were making week after week.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Ok I take it back, some people always find something to complain. *sighs* Sounds like i SE pays everyone 1000 Dollars someone would complain that it are not 1100.
Ok I take it back, some people always find something to complain. *sighs* Sounds like i SE pays everyone 1000 Dollars someone would complain that it are not 1100.
Well the yen and dollar don't exactly go too far now a days. Those greedy punks could at least offer a yuan-infused investment bond since China's economy is the only one growing.
Then it again that would mean using a little foresight. Not exactly a SE trademark.
So now they know something is not right, but they apparently still don't know which action to take, while pleaing for patience from their players.
Except laying out precise plans for this and early next year?
Other than that, they're "completely clueless", sure!
Please don't quote out of context.
"It is because of this that we ask our customers to be patient until we are able to confidently present them with a concrete plan outlining FINAL FANTASY XIV’s new direction."
Ok I take it back, some people always find something to complain. *sighs* Sounds like i SE pays everyone 1000 Dollars someone would complain that it are not 1100.
Most of this looks like legitimate discussion over trolling and complaining to complain. Complaints, though, are needed to get this going in the right direction. I have been following FF hoping it would turn around, becuase I was a huge FFXI fan.
I really agree with Wizardry in regards to what worked in FFXI. I loved the game for it's combat and class design. What didn't work for me, and resulted in me leaving, was the NEED for full pty to exp, for the most part. Joining the military meant I didn't have the time to sit in LFP for hours. The instant gratification found in the majority of MMO's today is sort of a turnoff. FFXI players know that when you achieved something in that game, it felt like a real accomplishment, and there was a real scence of community. FFXI-2 would be welcomed by me if that had been the direction. Occasionally I get a little hope from those that are still playing, but had I listened to them I'd be pretty pissed at the state it is in now. Say its good and all is great if you want to, but if the designers are admitting a bad product, the game is bad.
Hate kicking the dead horse, but had they listened a little more to feedback, maybe...... just maybe it wouldn't be in as bad a state it is in, though I don't know that just an opinion. I miss FFXI, it was my fave, and I'll continue to watch this one and hope it gets going. I couldn't care less if it beats any of the topp MMO's out there, but it does need some playerbase.
So someone took the fall for a whole lot of bad choices.
Good on him.
I wonder if he got bumped down to making those Square PSP remakes? Or forced to commit seppuku? Now just another year and it'll be playable.
Yes Tanaka took the fall,and he already stated way beack before the game even released,that he was not making the decisions this time,he was alllowing others to use their input.This is why i beleive it is just a publicity stunt.For Tanaka to take total responsibility,maybe perhaps so ,in that he was in charge and allowing incompetent staff to make decisions was his only mistake.
Perhaps the Crystal Tools was where al lthe mistakes began years ago,this SE developer seems to thin kso and feels licensing is a better way to go.
The Crystl Tools,adds development time and new issues,which has proven the case for the PS3 version.
Tanaka....this was his real mistake.
PT: I personally believe FFXI is an example of the best form of MMORPGs, and I feel proud of what FFXI has become over the past 8 years. However, my opinion is not the only one out there, and others have a different idea of what the ideal MMORPG is. FFXIV was the product of what Director Komoto and the others thought would make the ideal MMORPG. The reason we began production was because, after eight years, FFXI’s graphics were beginning to look dated compared to other games. When we thought about recreating FFXI with current technology, we decided instead that we might as well create FFXIV, a whole new game. We figured, if we were going to make a new game, putting the same system in wouldn’t be as fun as a whole new system
IMO Tanaka can still be the main goto guy,but it just seems that changes have come about at Square Enix for the worst,and i have noticed it for several years now,since about the time of the WOTG xpac.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
So now they know something is not right, but they apparently still don't know which action to take, while pleaing for patience from their players.
Except laying out precise plans for this and early next year?
Other than that, they're "completely clueless", sure!
Please don't quote out of context.
"It is because of this that we ask our customers to be patient until we are able to confidently present them with a concrete plan outlining FINAL FANTASY XIV’s new direction."
Are you really so ignorant to believe the new lead development team are going to follow the instructions of the team that just got removed from the title? If they did that...what would've really changed then?
"It is because of this that we ask our customers to be patient until we are able to confidently present them with a concrete plan outlining FINAL FANTASY XIV’s new direction."
I hope this helps.
"In the meantime, we'll proceed as planned."
Changing the direction of the game =/= not knowing what to do.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Are you really so ignorant to believe the new lead development team are going to follow the instructions of the team that just got removed from the title? If they did that...what would've really changed then?
Well, they won't be sitting on their asses until the new plan is finished. Not like there was anything wrong with the previous one.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Are you really so ignorant to believe the new lead development team are going to follow the instructions of the team that just got removed from the title? If they did that...what would've really changed then?
Well, they won't be sitting on their asses until the new plan is finished. Not like there was anything wrong with the previous one.
Of course not. They promised a December update, and they are going to deliver.
But you're delusional if you think they're going to stick to the former teams game plan after that.
A bold move to salvage what is left of the dwindling player base.
Perhaps they can get the game to a point where it is more fluid and enjoyable for its current players, but for most the damage is already done. MMOs don't get a second chance at launch, and while continued improvements and the PS3 launch (on the 1st of whenever) may see some small/measured growth in population, the game will never be what it could have been.
I'm curious what will they change. Frankly I've no idea how you can make this game fun at the current situation but I guess that's why i'm not a developer.
This is definitely a challenge for SE. A costly one since they did move peoples from their future projects.
Comments
At least they have honor in defeat... Not charging a dime for this mess was the only thing to do for it to have any chance of coming back one day. Great news!
Now, I didn't see anywhere that they were going to scrap the leves system... thats where they need to start imo.
Unless thats what they mean by " addressing these issues will call for a reworking of game elements."
Tbh though, they will have to pull a miracle out of thin air to bring this game back to compete with the 2011 heavy hitters.
GL Naoki Yoshida... you'll need it.
I wouldn't worry to much. Tanaka is still Senior Vice President of Software Development for SE. Just having him step down will be good for the game and for him as well. Having what some call "The biggest flot of 2010" on your shoulder is hard to bare. Having him out of the spot light and the director's chair is a good thing for all parties.
well we have the ffxi team on ffxiv now finally. GG time to own!
And nothing is bad about an XI-2, I was just looking for a different experience. I guess I am going to play Guild Wars 2 & TOR for awhile. And be on a wait and see approach on if XIV differentiates itself enough from XI to determine If I play or not. I still don't know if the team restructuring is a good thing or not till I see how things pan out. I'm prolly one of the few on these forums who isn't jumping for joy just yet. I am just a little confused how Tanaka who played a big hand in XI, Xenogears, Secret Of Mana 1, and FF III. Is the sole person to blame for all of XIV's woes. Is the producer role that encompassing?
I appreciate the honesty and the commitment, no matter the cost and staff changes needed to make the game into something great. I never liked Tanaka, he lost his Mojo a long time ago (if he ever had it).
Not compaining, free to play until it's done sounds fine with me.
Hey, SE is the best PSP developer out there. Those games are awesome.
Now I sort of wonder about what some people actually want to complain. This step is sure a surprise to read, well I do not mind about this even as I like the game currently already.I wonder how strong it will be changed over the next months.
But, but ... I thought you allways said there was nothing wrong with the game.
That it was us idiots who didn't understand how we were supposed to play it, that we were intelligently challenged and the game wasn't for us. /end sarcasm
In regards to the op, this part is interesting.
"It is because of this that we ask our customers to be patient until we are able to confidently present them with a concrete plan outlining FINAL FANTASY XIV’s new direction."
So now they know something is not right, but they apparently still don't know which action to take, while pleaing for patience from their players.
I'm sorry to say this, they allready knew this during beta. They should have taken this approach during beta and not release the game at all.
I know there was probably a lot of internal politics going on and it takes alot of guts to admit the stuff in the op, but for the love of God I don't understand why they still don't have a solid strategy associated with this bold confession.
Time is running out SE, and it is running out fast. If you manage to still save this game you will have earned my respect, but as of now I'm very sceptical.
Good luck.
Except laying out precise plans for this and early next year?
Other than that, they're "completely clueless", sure!
Eh? If I could pat you on the head and offer you a cookie I would do so. And not with a windowless van near by or anything.
Still I'd like to see some of the early Secret of Mana games get made with a graphics overhaul. Nothing else, just graphics. Even the spelling mistakes, keep them there.
BOLD move ,but one that is only a publicity stunt.The yhave already shown me that they REFUSE to admit to bad game design,all they are doing is adding patches to a bucket full of holes.This new guy on the block will not be bold enough to make big decisions,like i said this is just a new puppet to take the fall,nothing is going to change.
Auction house,extra menus,time sinks all over like fishing[still boring],Harvesting is more menus ,more time sink.Crafting is more time sink than ever and players SHOULD be allowed to craft for themselves and not rely on others.
Questing...that is all it is ,calling them Leves is ridiculous.Adding time limits is again a dumb idea,i like to feel relaxed playing,i don't want to have a stop watch on me.Get rid of the ridiclous aura things you have to touch to activate your quest.These are just same old quests,nothing has changed,keep it simple the way quests are always done,talk to npc go do quest...simple.If they wanted to make change,then make some cool quests that are fun,as is people look to Leves as just another leveling tool,the way Wow/EQ2 does quests.
It looks like Square Enix has been blindfolded to all the mistakes from FFXI.They have taken what works and made it worse and what wasn't good and made it even worse yet.Yes looks totally incompetent,but i feel the whole game needs to be scrapped and it won't,so a new team will do nothing to improve this game.
A perect example ,scrap the ridiculous market wards,a patch by adding search function is NOT the proper design,a simpler Auction house that DOES work and is proven in all games IS the proper design.Again this will not happen,Market Wards are there to stay ,you can bet on it.
Combat from FFXI was the main reason i loved the game,and of course the class structure was awesome.All i wanted to see is improvements on TP use and maybe add soemthing new like a feedback system if maybe for exampel 3-4 players perform a chained weapon skills.Improve the the tp use so players have more choice in 200/300 tp use,allow more viable options to magic bursts.They could have added AA and make race even more of a choice than FFXI was,make it so players feel their race matters and is not just a cosmetic venture.
It saddens me to see how little the staff at SE learned,i really wanted this to be my final resting place,a game i could brag about ,it just won't happen ,i realize that now,well i have realized it for the last several months,way back when i read all the horrible decisions they were making week after week.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Ok I take it back, some people always find something to complain. *sighs* Sounds like i SE pays everyone 1000 Dollars someone would complain that it are not 1100.
Well the yen and dollar don't exactly go too far now a days. Those greedy punks could at least offer a yuan-infused investment bond since China's economy is the only one growing.
Then it again that would mean using a little foresight. Not exactly a SE trademark.
Please don't quote out of context.
"It is because of this that we ask our customers to be patient until we are able to confidently present them with a concrete plan outlining FINAL FANTASY XIV’s new direction."
I hope this helps.
Most of this looks like legitimate discussion over trolling and complaining to complain. Complaints, though, are needed to get this going in the right direction. I have been following FF hoping it would turn around, becuase I was a huge FFXI fan.
I really agree with Wizardry in regards to what worked in FFXI. I loved the game for it's combat and class design. What didn't work for me, and resulted in me leaving, was the NEED for full pty to exp, for the most part. Joining the military meant I didn't have the time to sit in LFP for hours. The instant gratification found in the majority of MMO's today is sort of a turnoff. FFXI players know that when you achieved something in that game, it felt like a real accomplishment, and there was a real scence of community. FFXI-2 would be welcomed by me if that had been the direction. Occasionally I get a little hope from those that are still playing, but had I listened to them I'd be pretty pissed at the state it is in now. Say its good and all is great if you want to, but if the designers are admitting a bad product, the game is bad.
Hate kicking the dead horse, but had they listened a little more to feedback, maybe...... just maybe it wouldn't be in as bad a state it is in, though I don't know that just an opinion. I miss FFXI, it was my fave, and I'll continue to watch this one and hope it gets going. I couldn't care less if it beats any of the topp MMO's out there, but it does need some playerbase.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Yes Tanaka took the fall,and he already stated way beack before the game even released,that he was not making the decisions this time,he was alllowing others to use their input.This is why i beleive it is just a publicity stunt.For Tanaka to take total responsibility,maybe perhaps so ,in that he was in charge and allowing incompetent staff to make decisions was his only mistake.
Mistake...whos to blame?? >>> mistake
Perhaps the Crystal Tools was where al lthe mistakes began years ago,this SE developer seems to thin kso and feels licensing is a better way to go.
The Crystl Tools,adds development time and new issues,which has proven the case for the PS3 version.
Tanaka....this was his real mistake.
PT: I personally believe FFXI is an example of the best form of MMORPGs, and I feel proud of what FFXI has become over the past 8 years. However, my opinion is not the only one out there, and others have a different idea of what the ideal MMORPG is. FFXIV was the product of what Director Komoto and the others thought would make the ideal MMORPG. The reason we began production was because, after eight years, FFXI’s graphics were beginning to look dated compared to other games. When we thought about recreating FFXI with current technology, we decided instead that we might as well create FFXIV, a whole new game. We figured, if we were going to make a new game, putting the same system in wouldn’t be as fun as a whole new system
IMO Tanaka can still be the main goto guy,but it just seems that changes have come about at Square Enix for the worst,and i have noticed it for several years now,since about the time of the WOTG xpac.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
lol, bazinga!
@Hyan
Are you really so ignorant to believe the new lead development team are going to follow the instructions of the team that just got removed from the title? If they did that...what would've really changed then?
"In the meantime, we'll proceed as planned."
Changing the direction of the game =/= not knowing what to do.
Well, they won't be sitting on their asses until the new plan is finished. Not like there was anything wrong with the previous one.
Of course not. They promised a December update, and they are going to deliver.
But you're delusional if you think they're going to stick to the former teams game plan after that.
Probably not, but that wasn't the point. They're not just drifting until they have their own plan ready.
A bold move to salvage what is left of the dwindling player base.
Perhaps they can get the game to a point where it is more fluid and enjoyable for its current players, but for most the damage is already done. MMOs don't get a second chance at launch, and while continued improvements and the PS3 launch (on the 1st of whenever) may see some small/measured growth in population, the game will never be what it could have been.
I'm curious what will they change. Frankly I've no idea how you can make this game fun at the current situation but I guess that's why i'm not a developer.
This is definitely a challenge for SE. A costly one since they did move peoples from their future projects.
Throw out the bad, bring in the good. Very simple.
The challenge is in realizing what's the bad and what's the good. Does SE knows it?