You see it or you dont. Story is not what is going to make this the next MMO. Being able to team with friends even if there is not healer around. Yes there will be content you need healers for still but anyone can heal you out of combat. Anyone can res you. Playing a support class and they need DPS you bring your DPS companion. Need healers and your DPS, dont be left out few people bring a healer companion and away you go.
Crafting is being done in a unique way. You dont have to do the drugery parts just the fun stuff and the promis that hard core crafters will be sought after. Its a new chance at a real player econmey. Flashpoints. Not just a dungeon run but somthing fun and different everytime depending on how the players interact with NPCs. Its like you are taking part of a movie not just kiling mobs because they are in the way of phat loot. BW is doing something different and gettng flamed for it. Flam on I say! As long as they pull off the staples of MMOs this game will be a hit.
3. the most difficutl part: transform the game from an adventure game to a real MMORPG with an attractive end game so people stay tuned to the world they adventured in.
This is the key feature that should set apart MMOs from other genres in the industry. Sadly many think that repeatable raids and PvP is the only way to go with end game while in reality at that point most players either leave (and may come back when new content is added) or reroll and start from scratch again.
I have yet to see a MMO that has such an attractive end game to keep players subscribed when new content is months up ahead. In fact, I don't even think it would be called end game then...
3. the most difficutl part: transform the game from an adventure game to a real MMORPG with an attractive end game so people stay tuned to the world they adventured in.
This is the key feature that should set apart MMOs from other genres in the industry. Sadly many think that repeatable raids and PvP is the only way to go with end game while in reality at that point most players either leave (and may come back when new content is added) or reroll and start from scratch again.
I have yet to see a MMO that has such an attractive end game to keep players subscribed when new content is months up ahead. In fact, I don't even think it would be called end game then...
Raids and PvP is a staple of MMO end game. Only other thing I can think of is crafting. What else would you have an MMO do for end game?
If you were hoping SWTOR would be something new...
You haven't been following the game.
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick Hmm, I think you're mistaking the opinion on forums like these as being representative for the whole MMORPG playerbase. Which it isn't: sure, there are a number of MMO gamers who have grown sick and tired and overall burnt out on the themepark MMO genre as it's stylised by WoW and others like it. But still, the themepark MMO's all taken together are the most successful and enjoyed MMO genre so far. Whether MMO gamers are really sick of the format, we'll see with the themepark MMO's that are released this year, how they fare. I think that a lot of MMO gamers don't mind change, but not change that far that it strays away completely from the themepark MMO (WoW clone) concept. Expecting that MMO gamers en masse will suddenly dive into non-themepark like sandbox MMO's might be expecting too much, and with en masse I mean hundreds of thousands to millions of MMO gamers. Personally I think a themepark/sandbox hybrid MMO would be the most successful, combining the best elements of both design philosophies.
This. Coming to these forums you'd think WoW was dying and themeparks were widely hated among gamers. Absolutely not. Disgruntled sandboxeers are the majority here because they've had two games in the past 6 years, both which were more bloodbaths than sandboxes.
If you were hoping SWTOR would be something new...
You haven't been following the game.
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
Hmm, I think you're mistaking the opinion on forums like these as being representative for the whole MMORPG playerbase. Which it isn't: sure, there are a number of MMO gamers who have grown sick and tired and overall burnt out on the themepark MMO genre as it's stylised by WoW and others like it.
But still, the themepark MMO's all taken together are the most successful and enjoyed MMO genre so far. Whether MMO gamers are really sick of the format, we'll see with the themepark MMO's that are released this year, how they fare.
I think that a lot of MMO gamers don't mind change, but not change that far that it strays away completely from the themepark MMO (WoW clone) concept. Expecting that MMO gamers en masse will suddenly dive into non-themepark like sandbox MMO's might be expecting too much, and with en masse I mean hundreds of thousands to millions of MMO gamers.
Personally I think a themepark/sandbox hybrid MMO would be the most successful, combining the best elements of both design philosophies.
This. Coming to these forums you'd think WoW was dying and themeparks were widely hated among gamers. Absolutely not. Disgruntled sandboxeers are the majority here because they've had two games in the past 6 years, both which were more bloodbaths than sandboxes.
I would love to find an MMO thats 50% therepark and 50% sandbox. I like both and also get board if I am only doing just one of them every time I log into a game.
If you were hoping SWTOR would be something new...
You haven't been following the game.
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
Hmm, I think you're mistaking the opinion on forums like these as being representative for the whole MMORPG playerbase. Which it isn't: sure, there are a number of MMO gamers who have grown sick and tired and overall burnt out on the themepark MMO genre as it's stylised by WoW and others like it.
But still, the themepark MMO's all taken together are the most successful and enjoyed MMO genre so far. Whether MMO gamers are really sick of the format, we'll see with the themepark MMO's that are released this year, how they fare.
I think that a lot of MMO gamers don't mind change, but not change that far that it strays away completely from the themepark MMO (WoW clone) concept. Expecting that MMO gamers en masse will suddenly dive into non-themepark like sandbox MMO's might be expecting too much, and with en masse I mean hundreds of thousands to millions of MMO gamers.
Personally I think a themepark/sandbox hybrid MMO would be the most successful, combining the best elements of both design philosophies.
This. Coming to these forums you'd think WoW was dying and themeparks were widely hated among gamers. Absolutely not. Disgruntled sandboxeers are the majority here because they've had two games in the past 6 years, both which were more bloodbaths than sandboxes.
I would love to find an MMO thats 50% therepark and 50% sandbox. I like both and also get board if I am only doing just one of them every time I log into a game.
Obviously we will have to wait and see, but I think this game will come pretty close to fullfilling that desire for you. At least, it will according to what some of the developers have been says on the different ways to Level in this game.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I know it's pretty much gonna be WoW with a starwars skin but it will still have 200 hours of story per class and that's more than enough reason for me to buy it.
I know it's pretty much gonna be WoW with a starwars skin but it will still have 200 hours of story per class and that's more than enough reason for me to buy it.
BINGO. What's more is...right off the bat the game will have player housing(ship) and a deeper crafting system than WoW ever did. So add that to the fun factor of WoW but in space with TONS of story and I'm sold!!!!!!
"Blizzard’s World of Warcraft is the touchstone on which BioWare measures its forthcoming Star Wars MMO, The Old Republic.
Speaking on the keynote panel today at the DICE Summit in Vegas, BioWare’s Greg Zeschuk said that the company is following the rules established by Blizzard’s subscription fantasy MMO.
“It is a touchstone. It has established standards, it’s established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that’s pretty dumb,” Zeschuk told the audience.""
::groan:: Really? He thinks it is dumb if any game deviates from the WoW model? Oh man I have just lost all hope for SWTOR. He is basically saying it's going to be a WoW clone with a Star Wars skin.
Well this WoW clone has the largest following of any upcoming MMO. With over 248k Facebook followers and almost a million accounts on the offical website. Compared to GW2 that has about 157k.
But yeah people just hate WoW type games, thats why they are all playing WoW.
Actually people like WOW but not wow clones, the combined sub base of AOC, LOTR and WAR doesnt add up to the sub base of Guild Wars, EVE or DOFUS lol and thats a fact. GW peaked at a little over 5 million subs which makes their forum following and social networking BS meaningless. I dont care if TOR had 12 million Internet fans if it doesnt have a few million actual subscribers its totally meaningless. This is an mmorpg not a facebook popularity contest.
As for the WOW rules BS If a game is ANYTHING like WOW Im not touching it. Currently Im juggling a few sandbox and or hybrid games coming out, most of all World of Darkness and if none of that works out Im just going to stick with my EVE subscription. Any more raid progression, carrot on a stick crap is gonna drive me nuts, its basically a social network for bored twelve year olds who saw the southpark episode that was made when wow was peaking.
Actually people like WOW but not wow clones, the combined sub base of AOC, LOTR and WAR doesnt add up to the sub base of Guild Wars, EVE or DOFUS lol and thats a fact. GW peaked at a little over 5 million subs which makes their forum following and social networking BS meaningless. I dont care if TOR had 12 million Internet fans if it doesnt have a few million actual subscribers its totally meaningless. This is an mmorpg not a facebook popularity contest.
As for the WOW rules BS If a game is ANYTHING like WOW Im not touching it. Currently Im juggling a few sandbox and or hybrid games coming out, most of all World of Darkness and if none of that works out Im just going to stick with my EVE subscription. Any more raid progression, carrot on a stick crap is gonna drive me nuts, its basically a social network for bored twelve year olds who saw the southpark episode that was made when wow was peaking.
A few corrections:
- GW doesnt have a sub base.
- you don't know how many players GW has at the moment.
- the fact that you won't touch anything like WoW, doesnt mean other people are like you. Mostly, people have all kinds of differing tastes.
- nobody knows how World of Darkness will be since there's no info at all about it, so you're wildly speculating based on gut feeling, not facts.
- you haven't played SWTOR and what you're stating is contrary to what a lot of people who DID play the game are stating.
- basically, it's a lot of speculation with very little solid info, not even using the info and reports that IS available. More of a wishful thinking, the 'I wish all themepark/WoW style MMO's will fail' kind of wishful thinking you see a lot of people mistake for solid analysis.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Actually people like WOW but not wow clones, the combined sub base of AOC, LOTR and WAR doesnt add up to the sub base of Guild Wars, EVE or DOFUS lol and thats a fact. GW peaked at a little over 5 million subs which makes their forum following and social networking BS meaningless. I dont care if TOR had 12 million Internet fans if it doesnt have a few million actual subscribers its totally meaningless. This is an mmorpg not a facebook popularity contest.
As for the WOW rules BS If a game is ANYTHING like WOW Im not touching it. Currently Im juggling a few sandbox and or hybrid games coming out, most of all World of Darkness and if none of that works out Im just going to stick with my EVE subscription. Any more raid progression, carrot on a stick crap is gonna drive me nuts, its basically a social network for bored twelve year olds who saw the southpark episode that was made when wow was peaking.
A few corrections:
- GW doesnt have a sub base.
- you don't know how many players GW has at the moment.
- the fact that you won't touch anything like WoW, doesnt mean other people are like you. Mostly, people have all kinds of differing tastes.
- nobody knows how World of Darkness will be since there's no info at all about it, so you're wildly speculating based on gut feeling, not facts.
- you haven't played SWTOR and what you're stating is contrary to what a lot of people who DID play the game are stating.
- basically, it's a lot of speculation with very little solid info, not even using the info and reports that IS available. More of a wishful thinking, the 'I wish all themepark/WoW style MMO's will fail' kind of wishful thinking you see a lot of people mistake for solid analysis.
Yes GW does have a subscriber base, people buy the game and play the game just like any other mmorpg, wtf. Its not a traditional pay by the month rather pay by the expansion system but they know who is logging on just like anybody else. And they played second place to WOW for a long long time.
WOD yes I am playing on gut feeling on that one, its still in the not released yet stage forum hopping to learn crap about what might be in the game. But its CCP and World of Darkness two groups of people who blatantly hate WOW and who gave us things like EVE and White Wolf... so im not really worried about it being a raid grind for schoolkids.
Also I dont have to wish anything, AOC failed , WAR failed and LOTR took a nosedive all of these games should be ftp at this point.
Actually people like WOW but not wow clones, the combined sub base of AOC, LOTR and WAR doesnt add up to the sub base of Guild Wars, EVE or DOFUS lol and thats a fact. GW peaked at a little over 5 million subs which makes their forum following and social networking BS meaningless. I dont care if TOR had 12 million Internet fans if it doesnt have a few million actual subscribers its totally meaningless. This is an mmorpg not a facebook popularity contest.
As for the WOW rules BS If a game is ANYTHING like WOW Im not touching it. Currently Im juggling a few sandbox and or hybrid games coming out, most of all World of Darkness and if none of that works out Im just going to stick with my EVE subscription. Any more raid progression, carrot on a stick crap is gonna drive me nuts, its basically a social network for bored twelve year olds who saw the southpark episode that was made when wow was peaking.
A few corrections:
- GW doesnt have a sub base.
- you don't know how many players GW has at the moment.
- the fact that you won't touch anything like WoW, doesnt mean other people are like you. Mostly, people have all kinds of differing tastes.
- nobody knows how World of Darkness will be since there's no info at all about it, so you're wildly speculating based on gut feeling, not facts.
- you haven't played SWTOR and what you're stating is contrary to what a lot of people who DID play the game are stating.
- basically, it's a lot of speculation with very little solid info, not even using the info and reports that IS available. More of a wishful thinking, the 'I wish all themepark/WoW style MMO's will fail' kind of wishful thinking you see a lot of people mistake for solid analysis.
Yes GW does have a subscriber base, people buy the game and play the game just like any other mmorpg, wtf. Its not a traditional pay by the month rather pay by the expansion system but they know who is logging on just like anybody else. And they played second place to WOW for a long long time.
WOD yes I am playing on gut feeling on that one, its still in the not released yet stage forum hopping to learn crap about what might be in the game. But its CCP and World of Darkness two groups of people who blatantly hate WOW and who gave us things like EVE and White Wolf... so im not really worried about it being a raid grind for schoolkids.
Also I dont have to wish anything, AOC failed , WAR failed and LOTR took a nosedive all of these games should be ftp at this point.
If GW has a subscriber base then BioWare already has a tremendous subscriber base from all the DLC it launched on DA ME ME2, and all the sequels that sold multimillions of copies.
GWs subscriber base is based on box sales, and the 6 million sales combined ALL of the expansions together, including the package deals like the trilogy.. that counted as 3 games sold in 1... think about other games and what their sales would look like if they counted their DLCs when they packaged them. Its a ridiculous way to try and prove theres a "subscription base" especially since they don't pay monthly.. they aren't subscribing to anything.
The subscription business model is a business model where a customer must pay a subscription price to have access to the product/service. The model was pioneered by magazines and newspapers, but is now used by many businesses and websites.
I guess it really depends on how you want to look at it. But in the common sense a subscription fee is a general fee outside of the box to access said software, which is usually around 15 dollars, though it can vary from game to game.
Just to show the difference on this website swtor shows the Pay Type as Subscription.
While on the GW sub forum it shows the pay type as Free
The problem with box sales is it's close to impossible to gauage how many people are still actively playing. For instance I bought GW along time ago but i haven't played it since (that was over 6 months ago) So i'd personally wouldn't call myself a subscriber to the game anymore.
Thats why when business look at numbers they look at subscriptions as that tells how many people are still actively playing the game. (bar those that keep subs active that don't play)
Now. As for the topic at hand. I think ToR has shown plenty of whats new. So i'm going to give a short list of the stuff i expect in game thats new and leave it at that.
Cinematic dialog (mouths moving people walking around)
Duck and cover system.
Morphing of avatar (usually aging if you go too far dark sided)
Originally posted by Darkpigeon Sw:Tor will however be bringing something good to the table and that's Bioware's immense storytelling power. To say Sw:tor is a clone of anything is at best stupid and narrow minded. Yes it's obviousley going to follow a similar pattern to Wow, as Wow was a very successful game, it is however a bland, broad MMO. It does what it does, it doesn't do anything spectacular any more. The story telling, the IP and the quality that we expect from a Bioware game will set it apart.
Took the words right out of my mouth.
We can also fairly say that KOTOR 1 came out 1 year before WoW and if you have played KOTOR 1, you can see some wow-ish mechanics built in. Did Blizzard steal aspects from the Odyssey Engine?
Sw:Tor will however be bringing something good to the table and that's Bioware's immense storytelling power. To say Sw:tor is a clone of anything is at best stupid and narrow minded. Yes it's obviousley going to follow a similar pattern to Wow, as Wow was a very successful game, it is however a bland, broad MMO. It does what it does, it doesn't do anything spectacular any more.
The story telling, the IP and the quality that we expect from a Bioware game will set it apart.
Took the words right out of my mouth.
We can also fairly say that KOTOR 1 came out 1 year before WoW and if you have played KOTOR 1, you can see some wow-ish mechanics built in. Did Blizzard steal aspects from the Odyssey Engine?
Who copied who where exactly?
I couldn't agree more, except that I really do not care who copies from who. The fact is any successful game mechanic WILL be copied by another game developer at some point. That is a good thing since the strongest points of a game get passed on while the weaker points are ditched in favor of something better.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I saw the same article quoted here, albeit in that link it had more of what had been said.
From a game development perspective makes sense to me. I mean, they managed to pull the MMO genre from geeky niche nerdom into the mainstream and pop culture awareness all by themselves, and they have 10 to 100 times as many subs as their direct competitors, so the Blizzard guys must be doing something right.
It would be foolish not to pay heed what mechanics and design approaches Blizzard used for WoW to achieve that kind of success; which doesn't mean that the BW guys'll be copying everything 1 on 1, but paying attention to the lessons that can be discerned from WoW is certainly not a bad thing.
The amusing point people here forget is that if you took the total number of "users" on this site, it still represents a small percentage of the number of people who have subscribed to WoW. In short, the "haters" on this website are a vast minority compared to the number of people who enjoy WoW-style games, if not WoW itself.
The quote above does not imply a direct copy, but a plan to leverage the most successful components of the WoW machine. From a business perspective, I agree that makes the most sense and offers the best opportunity for success.
Big change is best made by many incremental changes on top of the accepted standard.
Are we suprised? Im not, the developers of MMOS think that WoW is the Holy grail, they bend themself backwards to copy cat that game, and then they TANK ( WAR, AOC, Champions online, Star Trek the list goes ever on) and are suprised hmm we get 700k box sails and our game drops to below 100k in one month hmm How can this bee? what did we do wrong?
YOU COPIED A GAME THAT EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER HAS PLAYED!!!!!!!!!!
Ps: for all those that say WoW copied other games.. Im talking about the MINDSET here the Thredwheel, the item grind, the Quest till you drop etc... Mini/Max I want BOP stuff, Instanced Battlegrounds, instanced dungeones... Blizzard whent all out here they have created a MONSTER that has derailed the hole genre now for a half a decade...
SWTOR is not a WoW clone, if you people followed this game closely you would know that. It was just a website that got the doctor out of context and tried to add some drama, maybe for a few more clicks. Other websites were at the same panel and none of them wrote what those guys have in their website. And theres interviews in youtube and they never, never talk about WoW... in fact, they say this game plays like a bioware game and that they are innovating in some fronts and improving other stuff.
Hmm when I see this I will belive it mate... All I see is We have Battlgrounds, we have kill Quests we have 2 fractions we have loked races for Classes, we have levels Bla bla bla I dont want to play a game like that anymore.
I dont want quest I dont want classes I dont want two fractions that cant comunicate with one another... I dont want a special space ship for my class And I dont give a shit about voiced over acting... Now dose this game have anything for me NO! but Im not alone there are a shitload of people out there who feel the same, We have played Quest and raid games untill our Eyes bleed we know them... sitting down and playing another one wont make us happy
Why can you release COD (call of duty) after COD? because you play against other HUMANS.. PvP will keep any game alive long before its tired gameplay has become so boring you know it by heart. CHess has lasted for thousands of years because Guess What you play against another HUMAN oppnent most of the time, because outsmarting him makes the game fun. STORY.. and PVE content can only take you so far. And when evryone and their mother has played the mecanic before they will buy the BOX and unsub after a month.. Trust me.
Most wars are fought with just two sides. You don't want all the things on your list, your not an MMO'er dude. You don't even know you won't be able to communicate with others, they haven't confirmed that. It's very possible you will have a way to communicate. Your saying PvP will keep a game alive, this game has PvP. So far theres only Battlegrounds and Open world. It seems theres talk of even having open pvp servers.
You, want a sandbox. However, sandboxes, I'm afraid, require you to go kill things more frequently by default. Also trying to compare chess to an exciting fast paced combat PvP system is just a poor analogy. You'd be better comparing chess to a RTS game or something.
Yes they have levels, thats true. Every BioWare game has had levels, or at least 90% of them. Why? Because they are RPG's! Thats always been there. Even in Japanese RPG's.
SWTOR Is more of an MMORPG than most games on the market, because they are giving you a role to play in a story, in an MMO universe. From what I've seen anyway.
Long story short, what your complaining about is mostly what is needed for a familiar, easy to get into MMORPG.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
I was just hoping to not get any more emails with videos / or updates in them. Take those guys doing that and put them on the game and viola star wars is on the shelves.
Are we suprised? Im not, the developers of MMOS think that WoW is the Holy grail, they bend themself backwards to copy cat that game, and then they TANK ( WAR, AOC, Champions online, Star Trek the list goes ever on) and are suprised hmm we get 700k box sails and our game drops to below 100k in one month hmm How can this bee? what did we do wrong?
YOU COPIED A GAME THAT EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER HAS PLAYED!!!!!!!!!!
Ps: for all those that say WoW copied other games.. Im talking about the MINDSET here the Thredwheel, the item grind, the Quest till you drop etc... Mini/Max I want BOP stuff, Instanced Battlegrounds, instanced dungeones... Blizzard whent all out here they have created a MONSTER that has derailed the hole genre now for a half a decade...
SWTOR is not a WoW clone, if you people followed this game closely you would know that. It was just a website that got the doctor out of context and tried to add some drama, maybe for a few more clicks. Other websites were at the same panel and none of them wrote what those guys have in their website. And theres interviews in youtube and they never, never talk about WoW... in fact, they say this game plays like a bioware game and that they are innovating in some fronts and improving other stuff.
Hmm when I see this I will belive it mate... All I see is We have Battlgrounds, we have kill Quests we have 2 fractions we have loked races for Classes, we have levels Bla bla bla I dont want to play a game like that anymore.
I dont want quest I dont want classes I dont want two fractions that cant comunicate with one another... I dont want a special space ship for my class And I dont give a shit about voiced over acting... Now dose this game have anything for me NO! but Im not alone there are a shitload of people out there who feel the same, We have played Quest and raid games untill our Eyes bleed we know them... sitting down and playing another one wont make us happy
Why can you release COD (call of duty) after COD? because you play against other HUMANS.. PvP will keep any game alive long before its tired gameplay has become so boring you know it by heart. CHess has lasted for thousands of years because Guess What you play against another HUMAN oppnent most of the time, because outsmarting him makes the game fun. STORY.. and PVE content can only take you so far. And when evryone and their mother has played the mecanic before they will buy the BOX and unsub after a month.. Trust me.
Most wars are fought with just two sides. You don't want all the things on your list, your not an MMO'er dude. You don't even know you won't be able to communicate with others, they haven't confirmed that. It's very possible you will have a way to communicate. Your saying PvP will keep a game alive, this game has PvP. So far theres only Battlegrounds and Open world. It seems theres talk of even having open pvp servers.
You, want a sandbox. However, sandboxes, I'm afraid, require you to go kill things more frequently by default. Also trying to compare chess to an exciting fast paced combat PvP system is just a poor analogy. You'd be better comparing chess to a RTS game or something.
Yes they have levels, thats true. Every BioWare game has had levels, or at least 90% of them. Why? Because they are RPG's! Thats always been there. Even in Japanese RPG's.
SWTOR Is more of an MMORPG than most games on the market, because they are giving you a role to play in a story, in an MMO universe. From what I've seen anyway.
Long story short, what your complaining about is mostly what is needed for a familiar, easy to get into MMORPG.
The thing is. There appear to actually be cross faction communication if this is to be believed
Cross faction communication and cooperation seems to be in TOR - Information
Today, a rough translation of an interview with the illustrious Mr. Dahlberg seems to confirm it more directly. And something more interesting - cross-faction cooperation?
Personally, I love it. Granted, it's a Google translation at the moment... but it looks good.
i speak french, ill translate the q/a
Q:how will contact be between factions ? will it be possible to communicate to other factions, to do instances and quests together,and even create cross faction guilds?
A: it will be possible to communicate between the two.some very specific quests, in or out of instances, will rarely lead to a situation in which the two factions group together. this will be very rare but precise. cross faction guilds aren't possible, guild's goal will be to have both faction facing each other. but who knows, it may be in an add on, it is still in discussion.
i can translate the rest if you so wish.
That can be found on page 2 of the second link.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
SWTOR is not a WoW clone, if you people followed this game closely you would know that. It was just a website that got the doctor out of context and tried to add some drama, maybe for a few more clicks. Other websites were at the same panel and none of them wrote what those guys have in their website. And theres interviews in youtube and they never, never talk about WoW... in fact, they say this game plays like a bioware game and that they are innovating in some fronts and improving other stuff.
First of all, all (or most) MMORPGs are clones of each other, we all know that, and we all know that Wow was not the first.
So how do you interpret this:
It has established standards, it’s established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that’s pretty dumb
Some people read that and say "WoW clone", end of story.
Others read it and say Wow has brought MMOs to a certain standard, so if you release a game in the state of AoC, STOL, VG, etc etc then it will fail (or not be popular). If you release a game without sufficient end game content, pvp, quest content, class variety etc then it will fail, if you release a game without polish, decent animation, with out stable servers, bug ridden etc etc then it will fail.
WoW rules are rules of success, that is beyond dispute, whether that be McDonalds rules or Steak rules it is immaterial. Every producer wants to be successful, and that is what matters, so you can copy WoW standards but not their game style.
So what are WoW rules? One I know is "We release when we are ready", these rules have nothing to do with clones or copying content, as we already said, all are clones of each other. And further to that Bioware does not copy stuff, they have their own style, going back a long long time.
So you can read what you like into the statement above, but from my point of view it does not, by any stretch of the imagination, imply that SWTOR will be a WoW clone, as such I still expect a quality game, polished and good fun and significantly different (genre allowing) then WoW!
Actually people like WOW but not wow clones, the combined sub base of AOC, LOTR and WAR doesnt add up to the sub base of Guild Wars, EVE or DOFUS lol and thats a fact. GW peaked at a little over 5 million subs which makes their forum following and social networking BS meaningless. I dont care if TOR had 12 million Internet fans if it doesnt have a few million actual subscribers its totally meaningless. This is an mmorpg not a facebook popularity contest.
As for the WOW rules BS If a game is ANYTHING like WOW Im not touching it. Currently Im juggling a few sandbox and or hybrid games coming out, most of all World of Darkness and if none of that works out Im just going to stick with my EVE subscription. Any more raid progression, carrot on a stick crap is gonna drive me nuts, its basically a social network for bored twelve year olds who saw the southpark episode that was made when wow was peaking.
A few corrections:
- GW doesnt have a sub base.
- you don't know how many players GW has at the moment.
- the fact that you won't touch anything like WoW, doesnt mean other people are like you. Mostly, people have all kinds of differing tastes.
- nobody knows how World of Darkness will be since there's no info at all about it, so you're wildly speculating based on gut feeling, not facts.
- you haven't played SWTOR and what you're stating is contrary to what a lot of people who DID play the game are stating.
- basically, it's a lot of speculation with very little solid info, not even using the info and reports that IS available. More of a wishful thinking, the 'I wish all themepark/WoW style MMO's will fail' kind of wishful thinking you see a lot of people mistake for solid analysis.
Yes GW does have a subscriber base, people buy the game and play the game just like any other mmorpg, wtf. Its not a traditional pay by the month rather pay by the expansion system but they know who is logging on just like anybody else. And they played second place to WOW for a long long time.
WOD yes I am playing on gut feeling on that one, its still in the not released yet stage forum hopping to learn crap about what might be in the game. But its CCP and World of Darkness two groups of people who blatantly hate WOW and who gave us things like EVE and White Wolf... so im not really worried about it being a raid grind for schoolkids.
Also I dont have to wish anything, AOC failed , WAR failed and LOTR took a nosedive all of these games should be ftp at this point.
If GW has a subscriber base then BioWare already has a tremendous subscriber base from all the DLC it launched on DA ME ME2, and all the sequels that sold multimillions of copies.
GWs subscriber base is based on box sales, and the 6 million sales combined ALL of the expansions together, including the package deals like the trilogy.. that counted as 3 games sold in 1... think about other games and what their sales would look like if they counted their DLCs when they packaged them. Its a ridiculous way to try and prove theres a "subscription base" especially since they don't pay monthly.. they aren't subscribing to anything.
Let me see if I understand this, you think Guild Wars one of the most popular mmorpgs widely acclaimed and rated, with a huge fan and user base and one of the best most competive pvp systems in mmorpgs isn't really popular because you have changed the laws of realithy in your head and think it so? You DO realize they have online web monitors that show just how many people are playing a game at any one time right? MMORPGs are about customer retention guild wars does more than just take in box sales its about web adds and other odds and ends. Under your logic mmorpgs that are FTP and dont have box sales are not mmorpgs either, when we know full well that they are.
AGAIN this is an mmorpg you need to get any romatic ideas about Bioware and box sales out of your head the first wave of box sales mean crap in mmorpgs if they dont retain users. I dont care if they sell 12 million copies if they only retain 300k users they just took a huge crap. HUGE.
Yes GW does have a subscriber base, people buy the game and play the game just like any other mmorpg, wtf. Its not a traditional pay by the month rather pay by the expansion system but they know who is logging on just like anybody else. And they played second place to WOW for a long long time.
WOD yes I am playing on gut feeling on that one, its still in the not released yet stage forum hopping to learn crap about what might be in the game. But its CCP and World of Darkness two groups of people who blatantly hate WOW and who gave us things like EVE and White Wolf... so im not really worried about it being a raid grind for schoolkids.
Also I dont have to wish anything, AOC failed , WAR failed and LOTR took a nosedive all of these games should be ftp at this point.
Let me try to explain to you what subscribers means as the word is used by 99.9% of other people, gamers and MMO companies: subscribers are people who pay a subscription to a game, usually monthly but it could be different periods of time as well.
GW you buy and then you play: that's why it's called B2P, Buy to Play, not P2P, Pay to Play, as MMO's as WoW, LotrO (previously), AoC, Aion etc use.
GW gamers don't play a periodical subscription after they bought the game, that's why they're no subscribers. They're just GW players. players =/= subscribers.
Simple as that.
For the rest, I wish you well with your search for an MMORPG to your taste, it looks to me you'll have a lot of trouble finding one that you'll be able to enjoy, if you've been playing any MMO at all the last few years. I'd recommend Xsyon for you, I've heard good stories about it, it might suit your taste. The other MMO's out there don't seem to fit your preferences.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yes GW does have a subscriber base, people buy the game and play the game just like any other mmorpg, wtf. Its not a traditional pay by the month rather pay by the expansion system but they know who is logging on just like anybody else. And they played second place to WOW for a long long time.
WOD yes I am playing on gut feeling on that one, its still in the not released yet stage forum hopping to learn crap about what might be in the game. But its CCP and World of Darkness two groups of people who blatantly hate WOW and who gave us things like EVE and White Wolf... so im not really worried about it being a raid grind for schoolkids.
Also I dont have to wish anything, AOC failed , WAR failed and LOTR took a nosedive all of these games should be ftp at this point.
Let me try to explain to you what subscribers means as the word is used by 99.9% of other people, gamers and MMO companies: subscribers are people who pay a subscription to a game, usually monthly but it could be different periods of time as well.
GW you buy and then you play: that's why it's called B2P, Buy to Play, not P2P, Pay to Play, as MMO's as WoW, LotrO (previously), AoC, Aion etc use.
GW gamers don't play a periodical subscription after they bought the game, that's why they're no subscribers. They're just GW players. players =/= subscribers.
Simple as that.
For the rest, I wish you well with your search for an MMORPG to your taste, it looks to me you'll have a lot of trouble finding one that you'll be able to enjoy, if you've been playing any MMO at all the last few years. I'd recommend Xsyon for you, I've heard good stories about it, it might suit your taste. The other MMO's out there don't seem to fit your preferences.
Well I dont want to get into a word parsing argument over what a Subscriber is. GW peaked with over 5 million registered people or in Tron terms USERs. Bottom line its popular and theres no debating that.
As for what I would like, I really liked Spellborn but Acclaim screwed that one up, Earthrise is interesting and the few games that are similar to it, its really the setting end of the world thing MAD MAX that im not really into. Darkfall is still a thought but I hear the combat is a little buggy. I dont know, I prefer environment heavy games I like my monsters and pvp in the actual worlds and I dont like instance heavy areas, In short I like social worlds not built for gear hording cowards. the other stuff Im flexible over. Ryzom is another one I dont mind so much but its dated and is on shaky ground.
In regards to instance and phasing here is what Georg Zoeller has to say
For the average planet, I'd say that 85+% of space is located in open, non phased areas.
That's average of course. Origin planets, with their focus on introducing the player to the story and their character, generally have a higher density of phased space, while vast open planets like Hoth or Tatooine have less in relation to their huge size.
Comments
You see it or you dont. Story is not what is going to make this the next MMO. Being able to team with friends even if there is not healer around. Yes there will be content you need healers for still but anyone can heal you out of combat. Anyone can res you. Playing a support class and they need DPS you bring your DPS companion. Need healers and your DPS, dont be left out few people bring a healer companion and away you go.
Crafting is being done in a unique way. You dont have to do the drugery parts just the fun stuff and the promis that hard core crafters will be sought after. Its a new chance at a real player econmey. Flashpoints. Not just a dungeon run but somthing fun and different everytime depending on how the players interact with NPCs. Its like you are taking part of a movie not just kiling mobs because they are in the way of phat loot. BW is doing something different and gettng flamed for it. Flam on I say! As long as they pull off the staples of MMOs this game will be a hit.
This is the key feature that should set apart MMOs from other genres in the industry. Sadly many think that repeatable raids and PvP is the only way to go with end game while in reality at that point most players either leave (and may come back when new content is added) or reroll and start from scratch again.
I have yet to see a MMO that has such an attractive end game to keep players subscribed when new content is months up ahead. In fact, I don't even think it would be called end game then...
Raids and PvP is a staple of MMO end game. Only other thing I can think of is crafting. What else would you have an MMO do for end game?
If you were hoping SWTOR would be something new...
You haven't been following the game.
This. Coming to these forums you'd think WoW was dying and themeparks were widely hated among gamers. Absolutely not. Disgruntled sandboxeers are the majority here because they've had two games in the past 6 years, both which were more bloodbaths than sandboxes.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
I would love to find an MMO thats 50% therepark and 50% sandbox. I like both and also get board if I am only doing just one of them every time I log into a game.
Obviously we will have to wait and see, but I think this game will come pretty close to fullfilling that desire for you. At least, it will according to what some of the developers have been says on the different ways to Level in this game.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I know it's pretty much gonna be WoW with a starwars skin but it will still have 200 hours of story per class and that's more than enough reason for me to buy it.
BINGO. What's more is...right off the bat the game will have player housing(ship) and a deeper crafting system than WoW ever did. So add that to the fun factor of WoW but in space with TONS of story and I'm sold!!!!!!
Actually people like WOW but not wow clones, the combined sub base of AOC, LOTR and WAR doesnt add up to the sub base of Guild Wars, EVE or DOFUS lol and thats a fact. GW peaked at a little over 5 million subs which makes their forum following and social networking BS meaningless. I dont care if TOR had 12 million Internet fans if it doesnt have a few million actual subscribers its totally meaningless. This is an mmorpg not a facebook popularity contest.
As for the WOW rules BS If a game is ANYTHING like WOW Im not touching it. Currently Im juggling a few sandbox and or hybrid games coming out, most of all World of Darkness and if none of that works out Im just going to stick with my EVE subscription. Any more raid progression, carrot on a stick crap is gonna drive me nuts, its basically a social network for bored twelve year olds who saw the southpark episode that was made when wow was peaking.
A few corrections:
- GW doesnt have a sub base.
- you don't know how many players GW has at the moment.
- the fact that you won't touch anything like WoW, doesnt mean other people are like you. Mostly, people have all kinds of differing tastes.
- nobody knows how World of Darkness will be since there's no info at all about it, so you're wildly speculating based on gut feeling, not facts.
- you haven't played SWTOR and what you're stating is contrary to what a lot of people who DID play the game are stating.
- basically, it's a lot of speculation with very little solid info, not even using the info and reports that IS available. More of a wishful thinking, the 'I wish all themepark/WoW style MMO's will fail' kind of wishful thinking you see a lot of people mistake for solid analysis.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yes GW does have a subscriber base, people buy the game and play the game just like any other mmorpg, wtf. Its not a traditional pay by the month rather pay by the expansion system but they know who is logging on just like anybody else. And they played second place to WOW for a long long time.
WOD yes I am playing on gut feeling on that one, its still in the not released yet stage forum hopping to learn crap about what might be in the game. But its CCP and World of Darkness two groups of people who blatantly hate WOW and who gave us things like EVE and White Wolf... so im not really worried about it being a raid grind for schoolkids.
Also I dont have to wish anything, AOC failed , WAR failed and LOTR took a nosedive all of these games should be ftp at this point.
If GW has a subscriber base then BioWare already has a tremendous subscriber base from all the DLC it launched on DA ME ME2, and all the sequels that sold multimillions of copies.
GWs subscriber base is based on box sales, and the 6 million sales combined ALL of the expansions together, including the package deals like the trilogy.. that counted as 3 games sold in 1... think about other games and what their sales would look like if they counted their DLCs when they packaged them. Its a ridiculous way to try and prove theres a "subscription base" especially since they don't pay monthly.. they aren't subscribing to anything.
Here is the web defination of subscriber.
The subscription business model is a business model where a customer must pay a subscription price to have access to the product/service. The model was pioneered by magazines and newspapers, but is now used by many businesses and websites.
found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subscriber
I guess it really depends on how you want to look at it. But in the common sense a subscription fee is a general fee outside of the box to access said software, which is usually around 15 dollars, though it can vary from game to game.
Just to show the difference on this website swtor shows the Pay Type as Subscription.
While on the GW sub forum it shows the pay type as Free
As is shown here: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/82/Guild-Wars.html
The problem with box sales is it's close to impossible to gauage how many people are still actively playing. For instance I bought GW along time ago but i haven't played it since (that was over 6 months ago) So i'd personally wouldn't call myself a subscriber to the game anymore.
Thats why when business look at numbers they look at subscriptions as that tells how many people are still actively playing the game. (bar those that keep subs active that don't play)
Now. As for the topic at hand. I think ToR has shown plenty of whats new. So i'm going to give a short list of the stuff i expect in game thats new and leave it at that.
Cinematic dialog (mouths moving people walking around)
Duck and cover system.
Morphing of avatar (usually aging if you go too far dark sided)
Weapon contact (light sabers actually block blaster bolts)
Indepth companion system (only thing that came close was aika and that was more of a periodical test then actually anything in depth)
Changing dugeons based on your characters or your parties decisions
Other player characters able to respond and potentionally change the outcome of a situation.
Thats what i expect new from this game, and as i'm basing off of what i've already seen, i hardly thing i'll be disappointed.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
We can also fairly say that KOTOR 1 came out 1 year before WoW and if you have played KOTOR 1, you can see some wow-ish mechanics built in. Did Blizzard steal aspects from the Odyssey Engine?
Who copied who where exactly?
I couldn't agree more, except that I really do not care who copies from who. The fact is any successful game mechanic WILL be copied by another game developer at some point. That is a good thing since the strongest points of a game get passed on while the weaker points are ditched in favor of something better.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
The amusing point people here forget is that if you took the total number of "users" on this site, it still represents a small percentage of the number of people who have subscribed to WoW. In short, the "haters" on this website are a vast minority compared to the number of people who enjoy WoW-style games, if not WoW itself.
The quote above does not imply a direct copy, but a plan to leverage the most successful components of the WoW machine. From a business perspective, I agree that makes the most sense and offers the best opportunity for success.
Big change is best made by many incremental changes on top of the accepted standard.
Most wars are fought with just two sides. You don't want all the things on your list, your not an MMO'er dude. You don't even know you won't be able to communicate with others, they haven't confirmed that. It's very possible you will have a way to communicate. Your saying PvP will keep a game alive, this game has PvP. So far theres only Battlegrounds and Open world. It seems theres talk of even having open pvp servers.
You, want a sandbox. However, sandboxes, I'm afraid, require you to go kill things more frequently by default. Also trying to compare chess to an exciting fast paced combat PvP system is just a poor analogy. You'd be better comparing chess to a RTS game or something.
Yes they have levels, thats true. Every BioWare game has had levels, or at least 90% of them. Why? Because they are RPG's! Thats always been there. Even in Japanese RPG's.
SWTOR Is more of an MMORPG than most games on the market, because they are giving you a role to play in a story, in an MMO universe. From what I've seen anyway.
Long story short, what your complaining about is mostly what is needed for a familiar, easy to get into MMORPG.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
I was just hoping to not get any more emails with videos / or updates in them. Take those guys doing that and put them on the game and viola star wars is on the shelves.
The thing is. There appear to actually be cross faction communication if this is to be believed
Cross faction communication and cooperation seems to be in TOR - Information
Comes from here:http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=188836
Link that correspondes to it goes here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=189580
Take that for what you will. Doesn't sound like they want to go the WoW route there at all.
This person says they speak french (which was what the interview was written in) heres what this person has to say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lethality
The other day, Hall Hood answered the cross-faction communication non so directly in an interview with us:
http://www.askajedi.com/2010/08/17/h...s-celebration/
Today, a rough translation of an interview with the illustrious Mr. Dahlberg seems to confirm it more directly. And something more interesting - cross-faction cooperation?
http://www.jeuxonline.info/actualite...-sean-dahlberg
Personally, I love it. Granted, it's a Google translation at the moment... but it looks good.
i speak french, ill translate the q/a
Q:how will contact be between factions ? will it be possible to communicate to other factions, to do instances and quests together,and even create cross faction guilds?
A: it will be possible to communicate between the two.some very specific quests, in or out of instances, will rarely lead to a situation in which the two factions group together. this will be very rare but precise. cross faction guilds aren't possible, guild's goal will be to have both faction facing each other. but who knows, it may be in an add on, it is still in discussion.
i can translate the rest if you so wish.
That can be found on page 2 of the second link.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
First of all, all (or most) MMORPGs are clones of each other, we all know that, and we all know that Wow was not the first.
So how do you interpret this:
It has established standards, it’s established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that’s pretty dumb
Some people read that and say "WoW clone", end of story.
Others read it and say Wow has brought MMOs to a certain standard, so if you release a game in the state of AoC, STOL, VG, etc etc then it will fail (or not be popular). If you release a game without sufficient end game content, pvp, quest content, class variety etc then it will fail, if you release a game without polish, decent animation, with out stable servers, bug ridden etc etc then it will fail.
WoW rules are rules of success, that is beyond dispute, whether that be McDonalds rules or Steak rules it is immaterial. Every producer wants to be successful, and that is what matters, so you can copy WoW standards but not their game style.
So what are WoW rules? One I know is "We release when we are ready", these rules have nothing to do with clones or copying content, as we already said, all are clones of each other. And further to that Bioware does not copy stuff, they have their own style, going back a long long time.
So you can read what you like into the statement above, but from my point of view it does not, by any stretch of the imagination, imply that SWTOR will be a WoW clone, as such I still expect a quality game, polished and good fun and significantly different (genre allowing) then WoW!
something new?
I was just thinking you guys just wanted to see more twi'leks dancers and wookies and lightsabers.
did I miss some memo or something? XD
Let me see if I understand this, you think Guild Wars one of the most popular mmorpgs widely acclaimed and rated, with a huge fan and user base and one of the best most competive pvp systems in mmorpgs isn't really popular because you have changed the laws of realithy in your head and think it so? You DO realize they have online web monitors that show just how many people are playing a game at any one time right? MMORPGs are about customer retention guild wars does more than just take in box sales its about web adds and other odds and ends. Under your logic mmorpgs that are FTP and dont have box sales are not mmorpgs either, when we know full well that they are.
AGAIN this is an mmorpg you need to get any romatic ideas about Bioware and box sales out of your head the first wave of box sales mean crap in mmorpgs if they dont retain users. I dont care if they sell 12 million copies if they only retain 300k users they just took a huge crap. HUGE.
Let me try to explain to you what subscribers means as the word is used by 99.9% of other people, gamers and MMO companies: subscribers are people who pay a subscription to a game, usually monthly but it could be different periods of time as well.
GW you buy and then you play: that's why it's called B2P, Buy to Play, not P2P, Pay to Play, as MMO's as WoW, LotrO (previously), AoC, Aion etc use.
GW gamers don't play a periodical subscription after they bought the game, that's why they're no subscribers. They're just GW players. players =/= subscribers.
Simple as that.
For the rest, I wish you well with your search for an MMORPG to your taste, it looks to me you'll have a lot of trouble finding one that you'll be able to enjoy, if you've been playing any MMO at all the last few years. I'd recommend Xsyon for you, I've heard good stories about it, it might suit your taste. The other MMO's out there don't seem to fit your preferences.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Well I dont want to get into a word parsing argument over what a Subscriber is. GW peaked with over 5 million registered people or in Tron terms USERs. Bottom line its popular and theres no debating that.
As for what I would like, I really liked Spellborn but Acclaim screwed that one up, Earthrise is interesting and the few games that are similar to it, its really the setting end of the world thing MAD MAX that im not really into. Darkfall is still a thought but I hear the combat is a little buggy. I dont know, I prefer environment heavy games I like my monsters and pvp in the actual worlds and I dont like instance heavy areas, In short I like social worlds not built for gear hording cowards. the other stuff Im flexible over. Ryzom is another one I dont mind so much but its dated and is on shaky ground.
In regards to instance and phasing here is what Georg Zoeller has to say
For the average planet, I'd say that 85+% of space is located in open, non phased areas.
That's average of course. Origin planets, with their focus on introducing the player to the story and their character, generally have a higher density of phased space, while vast open planets like Hoth or Tatooine have less in relation to their huge size.
Can be found here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5374561#edit5374561
Take that for what you will.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.