open world is great but full open world (with no instancing) just makes things easier for campers/gold farmers making the experience less enjoyable at least for me
open world is great but full open world (with no instancing) just makes things easier for campers/gold farmers making the experience less enjoyable at least for me
Camper/Gold farmer problem is largely solved by not forcing players do "herb runs". Since most basic craft material can be collected using companions, you don't have to run around trying to collect materials. Ofc there will be gold farmers but that's just basic bad that affects all MMOs, bit like criminal activity it won't ever disappier.
open world is great but full open world (with no instancing) just makes things easier for campers/gold farmers making the experience less enjoyable at least for me
Instancing and no pvp safe areas were just invented in the first place becuase carebears didn't want to actually defend themselves in the actual game world opting to fight scripted monsters for gold drops in games like UO. This group of players later fled to EQ and started calling themselves hardcore raiders lol.
I am pretty sure if world pvp were around you would definately have less gold farmers. See to me Instanced areas are like an entitlement tax that everyone else has to pay so one group of players can hide and play a single player monster kill game by themselves. Every time I play a raiding style mmorpg I feel like I just got robbed somehow, like Im paying social security taxes. At least in a game like EVE you can kill people flooding the public chat with garbage and QQ.
And yes there is a degree of camping, but I find that kind of thing fun. Nothing scared a group of carebears in UO more than a gang of reds camping a road corner and charging fines. The idea that hey I can learn invisibility never seems to have crossed their mind. But there lies the problem between those player groups, PVEers have always refused to compromise in favor of making the game more bubblegum and in general ruining it for everyone else, because it ruined their fun.
Well Fael if you have any interests in this game at all or those that are wondering about the more "player killing end of things" there are a few quote you might be interested in. It's no where near UO style but here you go.
Quote: You can level up just by doing PvP - Bioware
Quote from James Olhen: "We're going to have open world PvP, As for the more structured PvP, I can't going into details but we will have it" - PC Gamer UK April 2010
Quote: There will be "Open World PvP" in terms of meeting members of other factions on planets as Tatooine being able to decide if you want to attack them or not. -SWTOR-Station
Gather this is on the PvE server because
Confirmed: Quote: "There will be several different types of server, including PvP servers and PvE servers" - Biowa
I'm not expecting anything dramtic in this area, but there is an option if you'd prefer more PvP rather then quest all the way up.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Every game that comes out rather it's a copy of another game or now is still something new. It is not the same game is it? Then it is new.
Games that are newly released or unique games, that aren't a carbon copy of other games:
Earthrise
Ryzom
Xyson
Darkfall
EVE
Wurm
Haven and Hearth
do I need to go on?
SWTOR's only unique feature I've heard about, is the voice acted story. I can get that for a one time fee from any other Bioware game, without needing to pay monthly.
Does SWTOR bring anything unique, like the games I listed? That doesn't involve the story.
Check out my nature/animal/relaxing music channel on Youtube!
Every game that comes out rather it's a copy of another game or now is still something new. It is not the same game is it? Then it is new.
Games that are newly released or unique games, that aren't a carbon copy of other games:
Earthrise
Ryzom
Xyson
Darkfall
EVE
Wurm
Haven and Hearth
do I need to go on?
SWTOR's only unique feature I've heard about, is the voice acted story. I can get that for a one time fee from any other Bioware game, without needing to pay monthly.
Does SWTOR bring anything unique, like the games I listed? That doesn't involve the story.
Well heres a short list
Duck and cover system.
Changing dungeons based on choices.
You already listed the fully voiced over, but it is unique to the genre so i'll leave it on the list.
Companion system
Unique type of crafting system (companions do the crafting, kidna like how FE does it. Except makes more sense this way :P)
Morphing system for your character based on choices (think Kotor style)
While it's not unique to the MMO genre, you do get massive open worlds. Which tends to not be the case in BW games.
You can have your companions sell your greys (aka vendor trash) for you. Kinda like how torchlight does it.
I'm sure i'm missing some more but theres a short list of stuff for you.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Every game that comes out rather it's a copy of another game or now is still something new. It is not the same game is it? Then it is new.
Games that are newly released or unique games, that aren't a carbon copy of other games:
Earthrise
Ryzom
Xyson
Darkfall
EVE
Wurm
Haven and Hearth
do I need to go on?
SWTOR's only unique feature I've heard about, is the voice acted story. I can get that for a one time fee from any other Bioware game, without needing to pay monthly.
Does SWTOR bring anything unique, like the games I listed? That doesn't involve the story.
Well heres a short list
Duck and cover system.
Changing dungeons based on choices.
You already listed the fully voiced over, but it is unique to the genre so i'll leave it on the list.
Companion system
Unique type of crafting system (companions do the crafting, kidna like how FE does it. Except makes more sense this way :P)
Morphing system for your character based on choices (think Kotor style)
While it's not unique to the MMO genre, you do get massive open worlds. Which tends to not be the case in BW games.
You can have your companions sell your greys (aka vendor trash) for you. Kinda like how torchlight does it.
I'm sure i'm missing some more but theres a short list of stuff for you.
How about 200 hours of unique playtime for EVERY class. That's in addition to all the usual raiding and pvp and other MMORPG staples.
Truth is nobody is going to ask you to bother with it !
Honestly I almost bought earthrise , just cause its sci-fi and love the change of animation from fantasy .
But then I realise i don´t have the stomache to play a stress game anymore , I just want to have fun .
Yup my money my way of fun , so YOUR MONEY YOUR OPNION good thing its not mine.
SWTOR will be something new cause instead of linear choices and quest reward , finally some physcological impact again.
After playing in RIFT headstart , best thing to do is infact not convince idiots to buy the game .
They will buy it anyway just to moan and cause negative flood waves and post six year olds post , just ditch them who cares for the naysayer .
They are going to buy , rather you know what ,don´t bother to buy and play it , please you are 100% right now its boring blend and totally nothing new , just skip it go to your favorite game :P they surely can use that negativity and emo.
Stay on the sideline for half year please , so the people who will enjoy the game don´t have to be bothered by it .
Let me see if I understand this, you think Guild Wars one of the most popular mmorpgs widely acclaimed and rated, with a huge fan and user base and one of the best most competive pvp systems in mmorpgs isn't really popular because you have changed the laws of realithy in your head and think it so? You DO realize they have online web monitors that show just how many people are playing a game at any one time right? MMORPGs are about customer retention guild wars does more than just take in box sales its about web adds and other odds and ends. Under your logic mmorpgs that are FTP and dont have box sales are not mmorpgs either, when we know full well that they are.
AGAIN this is an mmorpg you need to get any romatic ideas about Bioware and box sales out of your head the first wave of box sales mean crap in mmorpgs if they dont retain users. I dont care if they sell 12 million copies if they only retain 300k users they just took a huge crap. HUGE.
Uhm interesting....... Guild Wars in my opinion i a poor game with respect to an MMO it just does not have what it takes , Yes it has combat but thats the easy bit and doesn't make a game.
It is all about Romance with Bioware and that will be the staring Point (KOTOR and their massive player base) , secondly the IP and thirdly the hordes that will flock to an expansive MMO . The ammount of content will be a joy and will ensure extended subscriptions. SWTOR is not about PvP if you believe it is the pack your bags now, and interestingly Bioware are sticking to their guns and wont change their incredibly proffessional approach all through the development cycle.
How Bioware make their cash back is pretty much an irrelevance because they will and easily. You seem to be out of touch and clueless which is par for the course with respect to most of the whining comments and topics here. Guild Wars should not even be being discussed in SWTOR terms totally different concepts and markets.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
SWTOR is not a WoW clone, if you people followed this game closely you would know that. It was just a website that got the doctor out of context and tried to add some drama, maybe for a few more clicks. Other websites were at the same panel and none of them wrote what those guys have in their website. And theres interviews in youtube and they never, never talk about WoW... in fact, they say this game plays like a bioware game and that they are innovating in some fronts and improving other stuff.
First of all, all (or most) MMORPGs are clones of each other, we all know that, and we all know that Wow was not the first.
So how do you interpret this:
It has established standards, it’s established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that’s pretty dumb
Some people read that and say "WoW clone", end of story.
Others read it and say Wow has brought MMOs to a certain standard, so if you release a game in the state of AoC, STOL, VG, etc etc then it will fail (or not be popular). If you release a game without sufficient end game content, pvp, quest content, class variety etc then it will fail, if you release a game without polish, decent animation, with out stable servers, bug ridden etc etc then it will fail.
WoW rules are rules of success, that is beyond dispute, whether that be McDonalds rules or Steak rules it is immaterial. Every producer wants to be successful, and that is what matters, so you can copy WoW standards but not their game style.
So what are WoW rules? One I know is "We release when we are ready", these rules have nothing to do with clones or copying content, as we already said, all are clones of each other. And further to that Bioware does not copy stuff, they have their own style, going back a long long time.
So you can read what you like into the statement above, but from my point of view it does not, by any stretch of the imagination, imply that SWTOR will be a WoW clone, as such I still expect a quality game, polished and good fun and significantly different (genre allowing) then WoW!
Vulture well said , someone who understands context very very well put.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Let me see if I understand this, you think Guild Wars one of the most popular mmorpgs widely acclaimed and rated, with a huge fan and user base and one of the best most competive pvp systems in mmorpgs isn't really popular because you have changed the laws of realithy in your head and think it so? You DO realize they have online web monitors that show just how many people are playing a game at any one time right? MMORPGs are about customer retention guild wars does more than just take in box sales its about web adds and other odds and ends. Under your logic mmorpgs that are FTP and dont have box sales are not mmorpgs either, when we know full well that they are.
AGAIN this is an mmorpg you need to get any romatic ideas about Bioware and box sales out of your head the first wave of box sales mean crap in mmorpgs if they dont retain users. I dont care if they sell 12 million copies if they only retain 300k users they just took a huge crap. HUGE.
Uhm interesting....... Guild Wars in my opinion i a poor game with respect to an MMO it just does not have what it takes , Yes it has combat but thats the easy bit and doesn't make a game.
It is all about Romance with Bioware and that will be the staring Point (KOTOR and their massive player base) , secondly the IP and thirdly the hordes that will flock to an expansive MMO . The ammount of content will be a joy and will ensure extended subscriptions. SWTOR is not about PvP if you believe it is the pack your bags now, and interestingly Bioware are sticking to their guns and wont change their incredibly proffessional approach all through the development cycle.
How Bioware make their cash back is pretty much an irrelevance because they will and easily. You seem to be out of touch and clueless which is par for the course with respect to most of the whining comments and topics here. Guild Wars should not even be being discussed in SWTOR terms totally different concepts and markets.
A poor game? Seriously? Your acting like the game hasn't come out yet and has yet to prove itself, Its been out for years and has had one of the largest most stable user bases in mmorpgs, not to mention a sequel that most likely will do better than TOR.
I think romantic is what best describes your ideas on how well TOR will do, your probably a dedicated Bioware fan but let me explain a few things. A themepark with no pvp in STAR WARS in a no win combination, also big IPs dont guarantee a huge sub base, just look at SWG, AOC or even WAR for examples of epic big IP failures. Also Box sales for the first week or so dont mean much of anyting in mmorpgs, this is an mmo not single player old republic 3.
I do think as you say that TOR is aiming at non pvp raiders which basically means they are making EQ2 in space, which means the pvp will suck and the user base will settle at 200 to 400 thousand. See pure pve games dont break any records either. Thats why WOW has an entire battleground, Arena and open pvp areas. They learned from the mistakes of EQ, so in effect TOR is an evolutionary step back. The oversimplification of Cataclysms simple skill trees, homoginized combat system, and a childlike half hearted pvp effort.
TOR would be extremely lucky to get HALF the user base Guild Wars has, something I highly doubt.
Does SWTOR bring anything unique, like the games I listed? That doesn't involve the story.
Well it does involve the story, but yeah, it brings being able to follow a well-voice-acted story together with teammates (or guildmates obviously) and teammates being able to choose responses and move the story along.
It's not a negligible thing at all, it's actually quite a new dimension to the MMORPG experience.
Imagine playing KOTOR, but together with others, and with some reasonably well-done standard MMO stuff tacked on (decent, varied classes, builds, crafting, guild-friendliness, etc., etc.).
The only question is, then, is there going to be enough of this type of rich content to fill out an MMO and bear repetition?
Put it this way. Probably almost everyone who's played AoC loved Tortage. The first time; the second time; maybe even the third time ... but after the fifth time, it was just ho-hum click-through time again.
And then, of course, after leaving Tortage, a lot of people were disappointed that the same quality of VO and rich little storylines, with black humour, etc., weren't carried on throughout the rest of AoC. Tortage was just a front-loaded "showcase", a very good one, but very limited.
So imagine a whole MMO full of Tortage-like quality, but with lots of starter areas, in a KOTOR setting, and the possibility of sharing the dialogues with others. Or again, perhaps imagine LOTRO epic storylines but with great VO throughout, and a more BioWare type of story development (moral choices, etc.). Great! If it can be sustained throughout a whole MMO, people will love it. If it's going to be Tortage all over again (i.e. front loaded), people will be disappoint.
(Of course some people are always going to just click through any dialogue, even first time round. More fool them; but a further question is, will there be enough to keep that type of player entertained?)
Let me see if I understand this, you think Guild Wars one of the most popular mmorpgs widely acclaimed and rated, with a huge fan and user base and one of the best most competive pvp systems in mmorpgs isn't really popular because you have changed the laws of realithy in your head and think it so? You DO realize they have online web monitors that show just how many people are playing a game at any one time right? MMORPGs are about customer retention guild wars does more than just take in box sales its about web adds and other odds and ends. Under your logic mmorpgs that are FTP and dont have box sales are not mmorpgs either, when we know full well that they are.
AGAIN this is an mmorpg you need to get any romatic ideas about Bioware and box sales out of your head the first wave of box sales mean crap in mmorpgs if they dont retain users. I dont care if they sell 12 million copies if they only retain 300k users they just took a huge crap. HUGE.
Uhm interesting....... Guild Wars in my opinion i a poor game with respect to an MMO it just does not have what it takes , Yes it has combat but thats the easy bit and doesn't make a game.
It is all about Romance with Bioware and that will be the staring Point (KOTOR and their massive player base) , secondly the IP and thirdly the hordes that will flock to an expansive MMO . The ammount of content will be a joy and will ensure extended subscriptions. SWTOR is not about PvP if you believe it is the pack your bags now, and interestingly Bioware are sticking to their guns and wont change their incredibly proffessional approach all through the development cycle.
How Bioware make their cash back is pretty much an irrelevance because they will and easily. You seem to be out of touch and clueless which is par for the course with respect to most of the whining comments and topics here. Guild Wars should not even be being discussed in SWTOR terms totally different concepts and markets.
A poor game? Seriously? Your acting like the game hasn't come out yet and has yet to prove itself, Its been out for years and has had one of the largest most stable user bases in mmorpgs, not to mention a sequel that most likely will do better than TOR.
I think romantic is what best describes your ideas on how well TOR will do, your probably a dedicated Bioware fan but let me explain a few things. A themepark with no pvp in STAR WARS in a no win combination, also big IPs dont guarantee a huge sub base, just look at SWG, AOC or even WAR for examples of epic big IP failures. Also Box sales for the first week or so dont mean much of anyting in mmorpgs, this is an mmo not single player old republic 3.
I do think as you say that TOR is aiming at non pvp raiders which basically means they are making EQ2 in space, which means the pvp will suck and the user base will settle at 200 to 400 thousand. See pure pve games dont break any records either. Thats why WOW has an entire battleground, Arena and open pvp areas. They learned from the mistakes of EQ, so in effect TOR is an evolutionary step back. The oversimplification of Cataclysms simple skill trees, homoginized combat system, and a childlike half hearted pvp effort.
TOR would be extremely lucky to get HALF the user base Guild Wars has, something I highly doubt.
What is this "user base" you're talking about? Not to mention GW doesn't have a bigger "user base" than games like ME. You're confusing their "boxes sold" with "user base". GW doesn't have a subscriber base either. Its a B2P game like other single player games. Counting GW box sales as some kind of playerbase would be like comparing GW to all the games BioWare has released including DLC.... do you really want to go into those numbers?
A themepark with no pvp in STAR WARS in a no win combination
See pure pve games dont break any records either. Thats why WOW has an entire battleground, Arena and open pvp areas. They learned from the mistakes of EQ, so in effect TOR is an evolutionary step back.
Clearly you haven't been paying attention, SWTOR will have its battlegrounds and open world PvP.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Every game that comes out rather it's a copy of another game or now is still something new. It is not the same game is it? Then it is new.
Games that are newly released or unique games, that aren't a carbon copy of other games:
Earthrise
Ryzom
Xyson
Darkfall
EVE
Wurm
Haven and Hearth
do I need to go on?
SWTOR's only unique feature I've heard about, is the voice acted story. I can get that for a one time fee from any other Bioware game, without needing to pay monthly.
Does SWTOR bring anything unique, like the games I listed? That doesn't involve the story.
Well heres a short list
Duck and cover system. Not new.
Changing dungeons based on choices. Changable instanced dungeons? Not new.
You already listed the fully voiced over, but it is unique to the genre so i'll leave it on the list. Not really that innovative, AoC and EQ2 had lots of voice overs, they simply didn't have it ALL voiced over, which is a matter of budget, not "new feature".
Companion system Not even close to new.
Unique type of crafting system (companions do the crafting, kidna like how FE does it. Except makes more sense this way :P) AFK crafting is not new.
Morphing system for your character based on choices (think Kotor style) So a slider that goes back and forth? Fantastic. Such a deep new feature.
While it's not unique to the MMO genre, you do get massive open worlds. Which tends to not be the case in BW games. Too bad almost the entire core gameplay is instanced and focused around very few players.
You can have your companions sell your greys (aka vendor trash) for you. Kinda like how torchlight does it.
I'm sure i'm missing some more but theres a short list of stuff for you.
For you, maybe, but not for MMO gamers who like an alternative to the current static MMO questing, who like SWTOR's questing revamp, huge, massive worlds, a different kind of crafting with the Crew Missions than is known in most current themepark MMO's, and who're interested in SWTOR's approach to combat with its cover system, stealth healers, ranged tanks and bigger emphasis on crowd control.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Every game that comes out rather it's a copy of another game or now is still something new. It is not the same game is it? Then it is new.
Games that are newly released or unique games, that aren't a carbon copy of other games:
Earthrise
Ryzom
Xyson
Darkfall
EVE
Wurm
Haven and Hearth
do I need to go on?
SWTOR's only unique feature I've heard about, is the voice acted story. I can get that for a one time fee from any other Bioware game, without needing to pay monthly.
Does SWTOR bring anything unique, like the games I listed? That doesn't involve the story.
Well heres a short list
Duck and cover system. Not new.
Changing dungeons based on choices. Changable instanced dungeons? Not new.
You already listed the fully voiced over, but it is unique to the genre so i'll leave it on the list. Not really that innovative, AoC and EQ2 had lots of voice overs, they simply didn't have it ALL voiced over, which is a matter of budget, not "new feature".
Companion system Not even close to new.
Unique type of crafting system (companions do the crafting, kidna like how FE does it. Except makes more sense this way :P) AFK crafting is not new.
Morphing system for your character based on choices (think Kotor style) So a slider that goes back and forth? Fantastic. Such a deep new feature.
While it's not unique to the MMO genre, you do get massive open worlds. Which tends to not be the case in BW games. Too bad almost the entire core gameplay is instanced and focused around very few players.
You can have your companions sell your greys (aka vendor trash) for you. Kinda like how torchlight does it.
I'm sure i'm missing some more but theres a short list of stuff for you.
That list is pretty weak, hate to say it.
You don't have a clue of what you're talking about.
Every game that comes out rather it's a copy of another game or now is still something new. It is not the same game is it? Then it is new.
Games that are newly released or unique games, that aren't a carbon copy of other games:
Earthrise
Ryzom
Xyson
Darkfall
EVE
Wurm
Haven and Hearth
do I need to go on?
SWTOR's only unique feature I've heard about, is the voice acted story. I can get that for a one time fee from any other Bioware game, without needing to pay monthly.
Does SWTOR bring anything unique, like the games I listed? That doesn't involve the story.
Well heres a short list
Duck and cover system. Not new.
Changing dungeons based on choices. Changable instanced dungeons? Not new.
You already listed the fully voiced over, but it is unique to the genre so i'll leave it on the list. Not really that innovative, AoC and EQ2 had lots of voice overs, they simply didn't have it ALL voiced over, which is a matter of budget, not "new feature".
Companion system Not even close to new.
Unique type of crafting system (companions do the crafting, kidna like how FE does it. Except makes more sense this way :P) AFK crafting is not new.
Morphing system for your character based on choices (think Kotor style) So a slider that goes back and forth? Fantastic. Such a deep new feature.
While it's not unique to the MMO genre, you do get massive open worlds. Which tends to not be the case in BW games. Too bad almost the entire core gameplay is instanced and focused around very few players.
You can have your companions sell your greys (aka vendor trash) for you. Kinda like how torchlight does it.
I'm sure i'm missing some more but theres a short list of stuff for you.
That list is pretty weak, hate to say it.
I guess I would have to ask, what game are you playing that has all the features SWTOR has and where can I buy it since none of this is really "new" and exists so freely in the current MMO market.
Let me see if I understand this, you think Guild Wars one of the most popular mmorpgs widely acclaimed and rated, with a huge fan and user base and one of the best most competive pvp systems in mmorpgs isn't really popular because you have changed the laws of realithy in your head and think it so? You DO realize they have online web monitors that show just how many people are playing a game at any one time right? MMORPGs are about customer retention guild wars does more than just take in box sales its about web adds and other odds and ends. Under your logic mmorpgs that are FTP and dont have box sales are not mmorpgs either, when we know full well that they are.
AGAIN this is an mmorpg you need to get any romatic ideas about Bioware and box sales out of your head the first wave of box sales mean crap in mmorpgs if they dont retain users. I dont care if they sell 12 million copies if they only retain 300k users they just took a huge crap. HUGE.
Uhm interesting....... Guild Wars in my opinion i a poor game with respect to an MMO it just does not have what it takes , Yes it has combat but thats the easy bit and doesn't make a game.
It is all about Romance with Bioware and that will be the staring Point (KOTOR and their massive player base) , secondly the IP and thirdly the hordes that will flock to an expansive MMO . The ammount of content will be a joy and will ensure extended subscriptions. SWTOR is not about PvP if you believe it is the pack your bags now, and interestingly Bioware are sticking to their guns and wont change their incredibly proffessional approach all through the development cycle.
How Bioware make their cash back is pretty much an irrelevance because they will and easily. You seem to be out of touch and clueless which is par for the course with respect to most of the whining comments and topics here. Guild Wars should not even be being discussed in SWTOR terms totally different concepts and markets.
A poor game? Seriously? Your acting like the game hasn't come out yet and has yet to prove itself, Its been out for years and has had one of the largest most stable user bases in mmorpgs, not to mention a sequel that most likely will do better than TOR.
I think romantic is what best describes your ideas on how well TOR will do, your probably a dedicated Bioware fan but let me explain a few things. A themepark with no pvp in STAR WARS in a no win combination, also big IPs dont guarantee a huge sub base, just look at SWG, AOC or even WAR for examples of epic big IP failures. Also Box sales for the first week or so dont mean much of anyting in mmorpgs, this is an mmo not single player old republic 3.
I do think as you say that TOR is aiming at non pvp raiders which basically means they are making EQ2 in space, which means the pvp will suck and the user base will settle at 200 to 400 thousand. See pure pve games dont break any records either. Thats why WOW has an entire battleground, Arena and open pvp areas. They learned from the mistakes of EQ, so in effect TOR is an evolutionary step back. The oversimplification of Cataclysms simple skill trees, homoginized combat system, and a childlike half hearted pvp effort.
TOR would be extremely lucky to get HALF the user base Guild Wars has, something I highly doubt.
You might want to do your homework before posting m8, SW:TOR does have PvP in the form of Battleground styles, unsure about open world PvP options at minute but i can garuntee they are there on PvP servers.
I agree that an IP doesn't garuntee sales and sub base numbers but your examples are in error, SWG had a very large player base prior to the NGE, AoC is still going ok after a packed but buggy release, WAR i can't comment on but from what i read on these forums it's still going ok like AoC is.
Actually it's KotOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 etc etc etc. as said by the developers when they were first releasing how they wanted the game to be.
Comparing a sub based game to a BTP or even a FTP doesn't do you justice m8, you can include myself and possibly thousands of other people in the "player base" for GW even though i haven't played it for 2 years since i completed it. The game itself is a bore after completeing it, whats to do, explore? zoned areas, largest took me an hour to fully explore, Craft? doesn't exist in the actual term of crafting, game works on a loot basis mostly.
Don't get me wrong i enjoyed playing it the first time and even the second time with a different class, but GW holds no sway in matters when you try to use player base in a discussion. If you don't like SW:TOR or how it's being made then fair enough, however some people like myself actually want it to be done how it's being done, EVERY GAME could use improvements and such but they will come with time like everything else. If more Developers kept to their original design ideas instead of changing direction half way through making it then the industry wouldn't be such a bore like it is nowadays.
Yea guild wars is such a poor game. So poor in fact that are able to achieve what no other game can do balanced PvP.
PvP is balanced in GW? really? and maybe that's because everything else in the game was pitiful.
on topic:
how do you define a "new" game? if by "new" you mean "genre changing game" then no, i doubt it'll be anything new.
Well, as GW was a hub based game with arena PvP only, there are tons of other "balanced" PvP based games. Most FPS games revolve around arenas hubs, etc. Games like Global Agenda are pretty balanced in a team based aspect too, and that had a (very small) open world. Aimbotting aside that is.
Yea guild wars is such a poor game. So poor in fact that are able to achieve what no other game can do balanced PvP.
PvP is balanced in GW? really? and maybe that's because everything else in the game was pitiful.
on topic:
how do you define a "new" game? if by "new" you mean "genre changing game" then no, i doubt it'll be anything new.
Well, as GW was a hub based game with arena PvP only, there are tons of other "balanced" PvP based games. Most FPS games revolve around arenas hubs, etc. Games like Global Agenda are pretty balanced in a team based aspect too, and that had a (very small) open world. Aimbotting aside that is.
true, but it's not balanced enough to boast about it. dervish still destroys everything even after 4 years.
Comments
open world is great but full open world (with no instancing) just makes things easier for campers/gold farmers making the experience less enjoyable at least for me
Camper/Gold farmer problem is largely solved by not forcing players do "herb runs". Since most basic craft material can be collected using companions, you don't have to run around trying to collect materials. Ofc there will be gold farmers but that's just basic bad that affects all MMOs, bit like criminal activity it won't ever disappier.Instancing and no pvp safe areas were just invented in the first place becuase carebears didn't want to actually defend themselves in the actual game world opting to fight scripted monsters for gold drops in games like UO. This group of players later fled to EQ and started calling themselves hardcore raiders lol.
I am pretty sure if world pvp were around you would definately have less gold farmers. See to me Instanced areas are like an entitlement tax that everyone else has to pay so one group of players can hide and play a single player monster kill game by themselves. Every time I play a raiding style mmorpg I feel like I just got robbed somehow, like Im paying social security taxes. At least in a game like EVE you can kill people flooding the public chat with garbage and QQ.
And yes there is a degree of camping, but I find that kind of thing fun. Nothing scared a group of carebears in UO more than a gang of reds camping a road corner and charging fines. The idea that hey I can learn invisibility never seems to have crossed their mind. But there lies the problem between those player groups, PVEers have always refused to compromise in favor of making the game more bubblegum and in general ruining it for everyone else, because it ruined their fun.
Well Fael if you have any interests in this game at all or those that are wondering about the more "player killing end of things" there are a few quote you might be interested in. It's no where near UO style but here you go.
Quote: You can level up just by doing PvP - Bioware
Quote from James Olhen: "We're going to have open world PvP, As for the more structured PvP, I can't going into details but we will have it" - PC Gamer UK April 2010
Quote: There will be "Open World PvP" in terms of meeting members of other factions on planets as Tatooine being able to decide if you want to attack them or not. -SWTOR-Station
Gather this is on the PvE server because
Confirmed: Quote: "There will be several different types of server, including PvP servers and PvE servers" - Biowa
I'm not expecting anything dramtic in this area, but there is an option if you'd prefer more PvP rather then quest all the way up.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Games that are newly released or unique games, that aren't a carbon copy of other games:
Earthrise
Ryzom
Xyson
Darkfall
EVE
Wurm
Haven and Hearth
do I need to go on?
SWTOR's only unique feature I've heard about, is the voice acted story. I can get that for a one time fee from any other Bioware game, without needing to pay monthly.
Does SWTOR bring anything unique, like the games I listed? That doesn't involve the story.
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Well heres a short list
Duck and cover system.
Changing dungeons based on choices.
You already listed the fully voiced over, but it is unique to the genre so i'll leave it on the list.
Companion system
Unique type of crafting system (companions do the crafting, kidna like how FE does it. Except makes more sense this way :P)
Morphing system for your character based on choices (think Kotor style)
While it's not unique to the MMO genre, you do get massive open worlds. Which tends to not be the case in BW games.
You can have your companions sell your greys (aka vendor trash) for you. Kinda like how torchlight does it.
I'm sure i'm missing some more but theres a short list of stuff for you.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
How about 200 hours of unique playtime for EVERY class. That's in addition to all the usual raiding and pvp and other MMORPG staples.
Truth is nobody is going to ask you to bother with it !
Honestly I almost bought earthrise , just cause its sci-fi and love the change of animation from fantasy .
But then I realise i don´t have the stomache to play a stress game anymore , I just want to have fun .
Yup my money my way of fun , so YOUR MONEY YOUR OPNION good thing its not mine.
SWTOR will be something new cause instead of linear choices and quest reward , finally some physcological impact again.
After playing in RIFT headstart , best thing to do is infact not convince idiots to buy the game .
They will buy it anyway just to moan and cause negative flood waves and post six year olds post , just ditch them who cares for the naysayer .
They are going to buy , rather you know what ,don´t bother to buy and play it , please you are 100% right now its boring blend and totally nothing new , just skip it go to your favorite game :P they surely can use that negativity and emo.
Stay on the sideline for half year please , so the people who will enjoy the game don´t have to be bothered by it .
I wasnt hoping swtor would be something "new" for me current mmo mechanics are fine, Im looking forward to an awesome story a la bioware.
Uhm interesting....... Guild Wars in my opinion i a poor game with respect to an MMO it just does not have what it takes , Yes it has combat but thats the easy bit and doesn't make a game.
It is all about Romance with Bioware and that will be the staring Point (KOTOR and their massive player base) , secondly the IP and thirdly the hordes that will flock to an expansive MMO . The ammount of content will be a joy and will ensure extended subscriptions. SWTOR is not about PvP if you believe it is the pack your bags now, and interestingly Bioware are sticking to their guns and wont change their incredibly proffessional approach all through the development cycle.
How Bioware make their cash back is pretty much an irrelevance because they will and easily. You seem to be out of touch and clueless which is par for the course with respect to most of the whining comments and topics here. Guild Wars should not even be being discussed in SWTOR terms totally different concepts and markets.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Vulture well said , someone who understands context very very well put.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
A poor game? Seriously? Your acting like the game hasn't come out yet and has yet to prove itself, Its been out for years and has had one of the largest most stable user bases in mmorpgs, not to mention a sequel that most likely will do better than TOR.
I think romantic is what best describes your ideas on how well TOR will do, your probably a dedicated Bioware fan but let me explain a few things. A themepark with no pvp in STAR WARS in a no win combination, also big IPs dont guarantee a huge sub base, just look at SWG, AOC or even WAR for examples of epic big IP failures. Also Box sales for the first week or so dont mean much of anyting in mmorpgs, this is an mmo not single player old republic 3.
I do think as you say that TOR is aiming at non pvp raiders which basically means they are making EQ2 in space, which means the pvp will suck and the user base will settle at 200 to 400 thousand. See pure pve games dont break any records either. Thats why WOW has an entire battleground, Arena and open pvp areas. They learned from the mistakes of EQ, so in effect TOR is an evolutionary step back. The oversimplification of Cataclysms simple skill trees, homoginized combat system, and a childlike half hearted pvp effort.
TOR would be extremely lucky to get HALF the user base Guild Wars has, something I highly doubt.
Well it does involve the story, but yeah, it brings being able to follow a well-voice-acted story together with teammates (or guildmates obviously) and teammates being able to choose responses and move the story along.
It's not a negligible thing at all, it's actually quite a new dimension to the MMORPG experience.
Imagine playing KOTOR, but together with others, and with some reasonably well-done standard MMO stuff tacked on (decent, varied classes, builds, crafting, guild-friendliness, etc., etc.).
The only question is, then, is there going to be enough of this type of rich content to fill out an MMO and bear repetition?
Put it this way. Probably almost everyone who's played AoC loved Tortage. The first time; the second time; maybe even the third time ... but after the fifth time, it was just ho-hum click-through time again.
And then, of course, after leaving Tortage, a lot of people were disappointed that the same quality of VO and rich little storylines, with black humour, etc., weren't carried on throughout the rest of AoC. Tortage was just a front-loaded "showcase", a very good one, but very limited.
So imagine a whole MMO full of Tortage-like quality, but with lots of starter areas, in a KOTOR setting, and the possibility of sharing the dialogues with others. Or again, perhaps imagine LOTRO epic storylines but with great VO throughout, and a more BioWare type of story development (moral choices, etc.). Great! If it can be sustained throughout a whole MMO, people will love it. If it's going to be Tortage all over again (i.e. front loaded), people will be disappoint.
(Of course some people are always going to just click through any dialogue, even first time round. More fool them; but a further question is, will there be enough to keep that type of player entertained?)
What is this "user base" you're talking about? Not to mention GW doesn't have a bigger "user base" than games like ME. You're confusing their "boxes sold" with "user base". GW doesn't have a subscriber base either. Its a B2P game like other single player games. Counting GW box sales as some kind of playerbase would be like comparing GW to all the games BioWare has released including DLC.... do you really want to go into those numbers?
Clearly you haven't been paying attention, SWTOR will have its battlegrounds and open world PvP.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
That list is pretty weak, hate to say it.
For you, maybe, but not for MMO gamers who like an alternative to the current static MMO questing, who like SWTOR's questing revamp, huge, massive worlds, a different kind of crafting with the Crew Missions than is known in most current themepark MMO's, and who're interested in SWTOR's approach to combat with its cover system, stealth healers, ranged tanks and bigger emphasis on crowd control.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You don't have a clue of what you're talking about.
I guess I would have to ask, what game are you playing that has all the features SWTOR has and where can I buy it since none of this is really "new" and exists so freely in the current MMO market.
This thread only proves one thing: a cure for stupid is still years away.
Rational, logical discussion has no place here.
"These are not the droids you're looking for."
Move along.. move along...
You might want to do your homework before posting m8, SW:TOR does have PvP in the form of Battleground styles, unsure about open world PvP options at minute but i can garuntee they are there on PvP servers.
I agree that an IP doesn't garuntee sales and sub base numbers but your examples are in error, SWG had a very large player base prior to the NGE, AoC is still going ok after a packed but buggy release, WAR i can't comment on but from what i read on these forums it's still going ok like AoC is.
Actually it's KotOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 etc etc etc. as said by the developers when they were first releasing how they wanted the game to be.
Comparing a sub based game to a BTP or even a FTP doesn't do you justice m8, you can include myself and possibly thousands of other people in the "player base" for GW even though i haven't played it for 2 years since i completed it. The game itself is a bore after completeing it, whats to do, explore? zoned areas, largest took me an hour to fully explore, Craft? doesn't exist in the actual term of crafting, game works on a loot basis mostly.
Don't get me wrong i enjoyed playing it the first time and even the second time with a different class, but GW holds no sway in matters when you try to use player base in a discussion. If you don't like SW:TOR or how it's being made then fair enough, however some people like myself actually want it to be done how it's being done, EVERY GAME could use improvements and such but they will come with time like everything else. If more Developers kept to their original design ideas instead of changing direction half way through making it then the industry wouldn't be such a bore like it is nowadays.
Yea guild wars is such a poor game. So poor in fact that are able to achieve what no other game can do balanced PvP.
PvP is balanced in GW? really? and maybe that's because everything else in the game was pitiful.
on topic:
how do you define a "new" game? if by "new" you mean "genre changing game" then no, i doubt it'll be anything new.
Well, as GW was a hub based game with arena PvP only, there are tons of other "balanced" PvP based games. Most FPS games revolve around arenas hubs, etc. Games like Global Agenda are pretty balanced in a team based aspect too, and that had a (very small) open world. Aimbotting aside that is.
true, but it's not balanced enough to boast about it. dervish still destroys everything even after 4 years.