Bottom line other than fluff I cant think of anything of substance this game has over WOW or any substantial differances from games like EQ,WOW. By fluff I mean voice overs, cinimatics, any type of phasing. Because the base mechanics are just almost exactly the same. I just dont see a market share of people falling for the clone with a new skin strategy that didnt even work for Warhammer.
I don't understand how they expect to make money on this game. I don't know what their budget is just what i've read on these forums but if its 150m+ won't they need some rediculous amount of subs to make money on it any time in the near future? do they expect to replicate wows sucsess? because that seems like a right place at the right time sorta thing. if the project fails and kills of EA that sounds like a good thing for the gaming community, other than every one losing their jobs. my brother was laid off by them =
I don't think it will have more people than WoW but it should still do alright. Only way to know is to see the pop a few months.
I think it will settle at about 300k thats about right for this type of game format meaning pvp light progression heavy games like EQ, EQ2, FF, and LOTR. It might peak higher than that to start off with but unless its truly groundbreaking and and uber polished masterpiece it will fall into a predictable bracket. Thats a good number for an average mmo, but a bad and embarrassing number for EA games.
I don't understand how they expect to make money on this game. I don't know what their budget is just what i've read on these forums but if its 150m+ won't they need some rediculous amount of subs to make money on it any time in the near future? do they expect to replicate wows sucsess? because that seems like a right place at the right time sorta thing. if the project fails and kills of EA that sounds like a good thing for the gaming community, other than every one losing their jobs. my brother was laid off by them =
According to EA they only need 500k subscribers to make a profit. not a great profit but a profit.
During the Q&A portion of an earnings call with shareholders yesterday, EA's John Riccitiello claimed that Star Wars: The Old Republic could be profitable for the company with around 500,000 players.
"At half a million subscribers the game is substantially profitable, but it's not the kind of thing we would write home about," he said, when asked about the long development time and expense that's gone into the game. "Anything north of a million subscribers--it's a very profitable business."
so i'm guessing anything about the budget is just speculation? if 500k is enough to make them money it can't be costing them 150m to produce. that is good to know they are setting achievable goals at least.
I don't understand how they expect to make money on this game. I don't know what their budget is just what i've read on these forums but if its 150m+ won't they need some rediculous amount of subs to make money on it any time in the near future? do they expect to replicate wows sucsess? because that seems like a right place at the right time sorta thing. if the project fails and kills of EA that sounds like a good thing for the gaming community, other than every one losing their jobs. my brother was laid off by them =
From some of the comments of various EA executives (freaking talking heads), they seem to think that they are going to replicate WoW's success. I am a firm believer that WoW's success was a right place at the right time thing, and it's nearly impossible to purposfully replicate that type of success.
I can't say for certain how successful SWTOR is going to be. I believe much of that success is resting on the shoulders of the potential market that hasn't entered the mmo world, but are Star Wars fans, Bioware fans, KoTOR fans, or any combination of those.
Blizzard's success was that they brought in their own fans from previous Blizzard games. WoW made playing mmos "cool", because it has become such a social phenomenon.
If SWTOR just outright fails, it's going to send ripples throughout all of the gaming world.
I very much doubt that this game will be a disaster. Will it get 12million subs like WoW, No. But I doubt any game will get that sort of appeal anytime soon.
Being lucky enough to be able to play this game at different conventions equating to over 7 hours play time it is very similar to what people come to expect in a modern day western MMO. WSAD movement, standard UI layout, skill trees etc. So is TOR like WoW, Lotro, DDO etc then yes, its not going out on a limb in that area.
Is it going to be a open free world where the player decides what happens and makes the rules, no. At its heart its your standard level from 0 to level cap game with raiding, PvP, Crafting and socialising. But thats not always a bad thing.
The main differences are that instead of doing mindless repeating quests to get you to level cap you acrtally get eight "Knights of the Old Republic" games which are fully voiced, with all the usual cut sences and visuals in a large Star Wars universe to help you pass the time while you level. If you want to skip the story you can, press SPACE bar.
This is not a single player game, like every MMO I have ever played, you can group if you wish. If you want to group from level 0 you can. But on the starter world grouping is limited to classes on that planet. Once you leave your starter world, around level 10, you can group with anyone on your faction.
I will say that the screen shots and videos do not do the game justice. They are stunning. I hated the character animations over the last year or so but the most recent playtime I had the animations have improved, but they can get better. The enviroment graphics are stunning. Sounds are what you would expect to see/hear in a Star Wars game.
One thing I would say that after playing Rift and Guild Wars 2 TOR did feel alot faster while playing NONE force users like the Trooper and Bounty Hunter. The Force user classes need to speed up a bit more. The Smuggler and Imperial Agent both use the cover system and while I could not get used to the Smuggler the Imperial Agent was a blast.... and yes thats including the cover system.
In short:
In TOR you get eight Knights of the Old Republic quiality games to get you to level cap instead of the usual treadmill in other MMOs. You get the Raiding (We still need to see more info on this), PvP warzones, PvP Open world, Highend level crafting and the usual Achivements etc you would see in other MMOs.
Its not revolutionary, its not some sort of holographic video game expericence.... its a damn MMO and looks like its going to be quality.
The balancing issues are things of the past, dev teams solves these problems constantly with patches, stop worrying yourself with that. This isnt the early 90's.
I don't think this will be a disaster but I don't think it will kill WOW. WOW fans for the most part are Blizzard fans. They came to that game because they loved Blizzard games and they'll stick with it until they either get bored or Blizzard makes another MMORPG. Bioware is taking the correct approach; they are taking what works and attempting to improve and add their own things. From what I've seen ont he official forums, they are pulling in Star Wars fans and KOTOR fans, NOT WOW fans. As a matter of fact WOW is bashed more than any game on that forum.
Well, I would also say, that Star Wars itself is not what it used to be. To me the magic is long gone... Even for the old movies. My patience is spend, and I think the prequels are fine. It's all the other stuff Lucas % Friends have been digging at that really made me associate Star Wars with bad things.
The problem with Star Wars is that the mythology that really makes it different is all related to Jedi, and the Force, and the iconic Lightsabers and hooded warrior monks. Without this, Star Wars is not really that special, but so what? That in itself is fine, and proves nothing.
However, for me it's impossible not to be thrown off by the fan service. While it's fine in the context of their Expanded Universe, that Jedi roam the galaxy, it really is just hardcore fan service, and as a result, Jedi/Sith are nowhere near as cool or fascinating as they used to be. They used to be the coolest characters in all of Literature, but with the jedi slapsticked on everything related to Star Wars and Lucas Arts, it has more than worn it's course.
They over sold the thing that made it special, through their books, games, marketing, tv shows, whatever. The mystery, and excitement and rarity of them are gone and replaced with, dude-who-takes-himself-to-seriously-with-a-glowing-sword.
I don't hate Star Wars. The moves were a special effects revolution when they came out, and a good example of the Heroes Journey done right, and they are a classic slice of time from the 70s/80s, but they really, really oversold this brand.
Well, I would also say, that Star Wars itself is not what it used to be. To me the magic is long gone... Even for the old movies. My patience is spend, and I think the prequels are fine. It's all the other stuff Lucas % Friends have been digging at that really made me associate Star Wars with bad things.
The problem with Star Wars is that the mythology that really makes it different is all related to Jedi, and the Force, and the iconic Lightsabers and hooded warrior monks. Without this, Star Wars is not really that special, but so what? That in itself is fine, and proves nothing.
However, for me it's impossible not to be thrown off by the fan service. While it's fine in the context of their Expanded Universe, that Jedi roam the galaxy, it really is just hardcore fan service, and as a result, Jedi/Sith are nowhere near as cool or fascinating as they used to be. They used to be the coolest characters in all of Literature, but with the jedi slapsticked on everything related to Star Wars and Lucas Arts, it has more than worn it's course.
They over sold the thing that made it special, through their books, games, marketing, tv shows, whatever. The mystery, and excitement and rarity of them are gone and replaced with, dude-who-takes-himself-to-seriously-with-a-glowing-sword.
I don't hate Star Wars. The moves were a special effects revolution when they came out, and a good example of the Heroes Journey done right, and they are a classic slice of time from the 70s/80s, but they really, really oversold this brand.
You're confusing personal burnout with a franchise that you proclaim as "oversold" or well past it's prime. Hate to break it to you, but ti's still a very popular and very profitable franchise as it gets introduced to each new generation of kids and young adults. As someone who was an early teenager when "A New Hope" released, I am just as enamored of Star Wars now as I was back then. I love Jedi and I don't have one iota of a problem with Jedi overkill in games, books or movies. If any franchise done right has a chance against World of Warcraft, it would be Star Wars and Bioware.
only if people come into the game expecting a major change in DIKU based MMO design. I am confident Bioware will release a polished game, but I would not expect anything revolutionary
Well, I would also say, that Star Wars itself is not what it used to be. To me the magic is long gone... Even for the old movies. My patience is spend, and I think the prequels are fine. It's all the other stuff Lucas % Friends have been digging at that really made me associate Star Wars with bad things.
The problem with Star Wars is that the mythology that really makes it different is all related to Jedi, and the Force, and the iconic Lightsabers and hooded warrior monks. Without this, Star Wars is not really that special, but so what? That in itself is fine, and proves nothing.
However, for me it's impossible not to be thrown off by the fan service. While it's fine in the context of their Expanded Universe, that Jedi roam the galaxy, it really is just hardcore fan service, and as a result, Jedi/Sith are nowhere near as cool or fascinating as they used to be. They used to be the coolest characters in all of Literature, but with the jedi slapsticked on everything related to Star Wars and Lucas Arts, it has more than worn it's course.
They over sold the thing that made it special, through their books, games, marketing, tv shows, whatever. The mystery, and excitement and rarity of them are gone and replaced with, dude-who-takes-himself-to-seriously-with-a-glowing-sword.
I don't hate Star Wars. The moves were a special effects revolution when they came out, and a good example of the Heroes Journey done right, and they are a classic slice of time from the 70s/80s, but they really, really oversold this brand.
You're confusing personal burnout with a franchise that you proclaim as "oversold" or well past it's prime. Hate to break it to you, but ti's still a very popular and very profitable franchise as it gets introduced to each new generation of kids and young adults. As someone who was an early teenager when "A New Hope" released, I am just as enamored of Star Wars now as I was back then. I love Jedi and I don't have one iota of a problem with Jedi overkill in games, books or movies. If any franchise done right has a chance against World of Warcraft, it would be Star Wars and Bioware.
First of all, who cares about how popular it is? Millions of people follow horrible trends, ideologies and questionable things. It proves nothing...
Yeah you could call it personal burnout, but I would prefer to describe it, as retaining taste. I'm not a person who goes around "lucas raped my childhood OMG!!!111" but I do find that the magic is lost. Good for you, that you like it as much as you did back as when you were a kid. I am not just sure what that is going to prove, in the face of all the stupid things Lucas and LucasArts have pulled over the years on this one.
I have a problem with Jedi overkill in their games. Why wouldn't I? It makes Jedi not special. They are a clichee and a stereotype within itself. They were great in the old movies because you didn't see them all the time. They held back the good parts, and the fights down.. But in the new films, and games like Force Unleashed it's all fan service, that makes it crumble like a bad Michael Bay film. His solution to having a mediocre story was throwing as many jedis at the problems, to keep people interested.
Just because you throw on 300 jedi into attack of the clones, does not not make it a better film. It just makes it more boring the next time you show jedi. It didn't matter how powerful you were in force unleashed. It just made it boring. And in SWTOR, it will do nothing for the game that you fight multiple dudes from level 1 because it's heroric.
It's soooo missing the point of what is truly interesting. Nearly half of all action games have you play as some powerful entity(even within biowares games... grey warden.. jedi... specter.. martial arts legend.. take your pick as the character in one of their games. same stuff, different scenario).
I think it won't scale well. with their combat system, I doubt there will be a nice sense of progression or a feeling of becoming more powerful. Even if you would fight many many many more characters at higher levels at once.. like 50-60 wompa rats at the same time in a Dantooine style Dynasty warrior battlefield, I don't think the player would care that much.
Inherently it's just not very interesting, with their set up.
As for your last comment, I merely shake my head. It's too bad that this game have fans that have this fixation on "beating" World of Warcraft. Really.. Are you not past this point? Is this still what trouble your little minds? Please wake up, and releaise that WoW is not something to beat.
For those who likes themepark mmo's with no depth, repeative gameplay and nothing special beside the IP, this will be a great game (those who fail to find a leading raidguild in wow due to lack of any hand-eye-coordination).
For those who like sandbox-games with in-depth game elements, crafting system or player talent based playstyle, this WILL BE a big disaster.
Its definitly nothing for gamers who like games that are for "grown ups", but only for wow-style gamers.
I cant think about a Star Wars MMO where u can start as a jedi or sith whatoever.... biggest fail in this game.
To put it bluntly...."NO" This game rocks!....I have played it and it is far better than I expected it to be. It will indeed be the next long living King of MMO's!
For those who likes themepark mmo's with no depth, repeative gameplay and nothing special beside the IP, this will be a great game (those who fail to find a leading raidguild in wow due to lack of any hand-eye-coordination).
For those who like sandbox-games with in-depth game elements, crafting system or player talent based playstyle, this WILL BE a big disaster.
Its definitly nothing for gamers who like games that are for "grown ups", but only for wow-style gamers.
I cant think about a Star Wars MMO where u can start as a jedi or sith whatoever.... biggest fail in this game.
Just my 2 cents
Technically you don't start as a jedi or a sith. You just start as someone strong with the force. (Everyone has the force in them).
I do agree that the Star Wars franchise has been oversold and too popularized. Much of that can be attributted to Lucas and his questionable views on what makes his franchise great. In fact, it makes me question how much of the Star Wars universe Lucas can take credit for.
In fact, the Empire Strikes Back was only based around Lucas' draft, and was mainly written by sci-fi writer Leigh Brackett and film writer Lawrence Kasdan, and this is widely considered as the Best of all of the Star Wars films. Lucas didn't even direct another Star Wars film until Episode 1, which he had immediate complete control over, which he probably didn't have with his original three.
It could also be that Lucas has gone so far from being the daring director who wants to go against film trends that he's become the film trends. He's obsessed with movie magic, but he doesn't understand that the kind of movie magic needed is the kind that tells a well thought out, epic story with great characters. Not one note annoying (possibly racist) characters who are only around for the amusement of small children.
But I'm digressing, my main point is the best thing that could ever happen with this franchise is for Lucas to pass the torch to someone else, in which case something like The Old Republic comes to mind.
We have a new story, new characters to explore, and a more lore packed into these games than one can even imagine, and it's all full of awesome. It's no secret as to why people love KOTOR, and will gravitate towards TOR. Lucas doesn't have as much involvement in this as he would in making one of the movies.
As for the Jedis, the Jedi's are more like monks to me than anything. Peaceful, but deadly. It also kind of makes sense for Jedi to be running around everywhere in The Old Republic. This isn't based in Skywalker's time, mind you.
And lastly, the only way the magic is gone for the original three movies is if you watch the butchery that is the "remastered" versions.
I do agree that the Star Wars franchise has been oversold and too popularized. Much of that can be attributted to Lucas and his questionable views on what makes his franchise great. In fact, it makes me question how much of the Star Wars universe Lucas can take credit for.
In fact, the Empire Strikes Back was only based around Lucas' draft, and was mainly written by sci-fi writer Leigh Brackett and film writer Lawrence Kasdan, and this is widely considered as the Best of all of the Star Wars films. Lucas didn't even direct another Star Wars film until Episode 1, which he had immediate complete control over, which he probably didn't have with his original three.
It could also be that Lucas has gone so far from being the daring director who wants to go against film trends that he's become the film trends. He's obsessed with movie magic, but he doesn't understand that the kind of movie magic needed is the kind that tells a well thought out, epic story with great characters. Not one note annoying (possibly racist) characters who are only around for the amusement of small children.
But I'm digressing, my main point is the best thing that could ever happen with this franchise is for Lucas to pass the torch to someone else, in which case something like The Old Republic comes to mind.
We have a new story, new characters to explore, and a more lore packed into these games than one can even imagine, and it's all full of awesome. It's no secret as to why people love KOTOR, and will gravitate towards TOR. Lucas doesn't have as much involvement in this as he would in making one of the movies.
As for the Jedis, the Jedi's are more like monks to me than anything. Peaceful, but deadly. It also kind of makes sense for Jedi to be running around everywhere in The Old Republic. This isn't based in Skywalker's time, mind you.
And lastly, the only way the magic is gone for the original three movies is if you watch the butchery that is the "remastered" versions.
I think the best description I ever heard about Lucas was, "He's an idea man, he has great ideas, but once he has them you have to take them away from him or he will ruin them." It was one of his own people that said that about him about six or seven years ago. This is a man that retconed his entire universe because, he suddenly decided one day that wookies just didn't look good as jedi so he would never allow another one to be made. So there are three wookie jedi and that is it.
As to the game itself, I feel that the current leads in the game are a lot like Lucas in that they are limiting what is allowed to be played by people. I don't think it is just lucas that is a danger to the star wars ip, but pretty much everyone going into it with a human centric mind set.
I don't think it'll be a disaster (unless the following is considered by Bioware/EA to be a disaster): I think it'll sell like gangbusters, but I do not believe it will retain a majority of subs (million+) past 3 months.
Its not revolutionary, its not some sort of holographic video game expericence.... its a damn MMO and looks like its going to be quality.
The balancing issues are things of the past, dev teams solves these problems constantly with patches, stop worrying yourself with that. This isnt the early 90's.
A good game these days is revolutionary in itself most current MMOs are stuck down a dead end path which includes:
End Game in a Week
Raids]
Guilds
Remove all of these dead end lazy design components and return to real worlds that are worth playing in and we will be back on the right tracks.
A decent MMO with some longevity a decent world to tootle around in and more than 9 months of gameplay a lot to ask but you never know.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I do agree that the Star Wars franchise has been oversold and too popularized. Much of that can be attributted to Lucas and his questionable views on what makes his franchise great. In fact, it makes me question how much of the Star Wars universe Lucas can take credit for.
In fact, the Empire Strikes Back was only based around Lucas' draft, and was mainly written by sci-fi writer Leigh Brackett and film writer Lawrence Kasdan, and this is widely considered as the Best of all of the Star Wars films. Lucas didn't even direct another Star Wars film until Episode 1, which he had immediate complete control over, which he probably didn't have with his original three.
It could also be that Lucas has gone so far from being the daring director who wants to go against film trends that he's become the film trends. He's obsessed with movie magic, but he doesn't understand that the kind of movie magic needed is the kind that tells a well thought out, epic story with great characters. Not one note annoying (possibly racist) characters who are only around for the amusement of small children.
But I'm digressing, my main point is the best thing that could ever happen with this franchise is for Lucas to pass the torch to someone else, in which case something like The Old Republic comes to mind.
We have a new story, new characters to explore, and a more lore packed into these games than one can even imagine, and it's all full of awesome. It's no secret as to why people love KOTOR, and will gravitate towards TOR. Lucas doesn't have as much involvement in this as he would in making one of the movies.
As for the Jedis, the Jedi's are more like monks to me than anything. Peaceful, but deadly. It also kind of makes sense for Jedi to be running around everywhere in The Old Republic. This isn't based in Skywalker's time, mind you.
And lastly, the only way the magic is gone for the original three movies is if you watch the butchery that is the "remastered" versions.
Lucas rejected the script written by Leigh Brackett and asked for a complete rewrite. She couldn't do it because she was dying of cancer, so Lucas wrote one himself, bringing Lawrance Kasdan in at the end to help him with the finishing touches. That script is the one used for ESB. Instead of putting his own name on it Lucas credited Brackett out of respect.
Comments
Bottom line other than fluff I cant think of anything of substance this game has over WOW or any substantial differances from games like EQ,WOW. By fluff I mean voice overs, cinimatics, any type of phasing. Because the base mechanics are just almost exactly the same. I just dont see a market share of people falling for the clone with a new skin strategy that didnt even work for Warhammer.
I don't understand how they expect to make money on this game. I don't know what their budget is just what i've read on these forums but if its 150m+ won't they need some rediculous amount of subs to make money on it any time in the near future? do they expect to replicate wows sucsess? because that seems like a right place at the right time sorta thing. if the project fails and kills of EA that sounds like a good thing for the gaming community, other than every one losing their jobs. my brother was laid off by them =
die.
I don't think it will have more people than WoW but it should still do alright. Only way to know is to see the pop a few months.
I think it will settle at about 300k thats about right for this type of game format meaning pvp light progression heavy games like EQ, EQ2, FF, and LOTR. It might peak higher than that to start off with but unless its truly groundbreaking and and uber polished masterpiece it will fall into a predictable bracket. Thats a good number for an average mmo, but a bad and embarrassing number for EA games.
According to EA they only need 500k subscribers to make a profit. not a great profit but a profit.
http://pc.ign.com/articles/114/1147536p1.html
During the Q&A portion of an earnings call with shareholders yesterday, EA's John Riccitiello claimed that Star Wars: The Old Republic could be profitable for the company with around 500,000 players.
"At half a million subscribers the game is substantially profitable, but it's not the kind of thing we would write home about," he said, when asked about the long development time and expense that's gone into the game. "Anything north of a million subscribers--it's a very profitable business."
so i'm guessing anything about the budget is just speculation? if 500k is enough to make them money it can't be costing them 150m to produce. that is good to know they are setting achievable goals at least.
die.
From some of the comments of various EA executives (freaking talking heads), they seem to think that they are going to replicate WoW's success. I am a firm believer that WoW's success was a right place at the right time thing, and it's nearly impossible to purposfully replicate that type of success.
I can't say for certain how successful SWTOR is going to be. I believe much of that success is resting on the shoulders of the potential market that hasn't entered the mmo world, but are Star Wars fans, Bioware fans, KoTOR fans, or any combination of those.
Blizzard's success was that they brought in their own fans from previous Blizzard games. WoW made playing mmos "cool", because it has become such a social phenomenon.
If SWTOR just outright fails, it's going to send ripples throughout all of the gaming world.
Being a old school Star Wars fanatic, I here have my doubts that this game will keep me entertained for years to come.
For some reason when any game has levels attached to it, it becomes to linear for me to digest and yes, even Star Wars.
Believe me, I rather be playing Star Wars over any fantasy mmorpg with Dwarves and Elves again, however I hope it at least
keeps me entertained for at least 3 to 6 months.
I guess I am looking for more of a sandbox mmo than another theme park dungeon grinder for gear game.
However if SWToR is anywhere similiar to Anarchy Online playstyle, I can live with it.
On that note..
I don't think it will be a disaster, but I think it will be a disappointment for gamers that are looking for more innovation in their
mmo gaming, especially from a game thats been hyped for atleast half decade in the making.
I very much doubt that this game will be a disaster. Will it get 12million subs like WoW, No. But I doubt any game will get that sort of appeal anytime soon.
Being lucky enough to be able to play this game at different conventions equating to over 7 hours play time it is very similar to what people come to expect in a modern day western MMO. WSAD movement, standard UI layout, skill trees etc. So is TOR like WoW, Lotro, DDO etc then yes, its not going out on a limb in that area.
Is it going to be a open free world where the player decides what happens and makes the rules, no. At its heart its your standard level from 0 to level cap game with raiding, PvP, Crafting and socialising. But thats not always a bad thing.
The main differences are that instead of doing mindless repeating quests to get you to level cap you acrtally get eight "Knights of the Old Republic" games which are fully voiced, with all the usual cut sences and visuals in a large Star Wars universe to help you pass the time while you level. If you want to skip the story you can, press SPACE bar.
This is not a single player game, like every MMO I have ever played, you can group if you wish. If you want to group from level 0 you can. But on the starter world grouping is limited to classes on that planet. Once you leave your starter world, around level 10, you can group with anyone on your faction.
I will say that the screen shots and videos do not do the game justice. They are stunning. I hated the character animations over the last year or so but the most recent playtime I had the animations have improved, but they can get better. The enviroment graphics are stunning. Sounds are what you would expect to see/hear in a Star Wars game.
One thing I would say that after playing Rift and Guild Wars 2 TOR did feel alot faster while playing NONE force users like the Trooper and Bounty Hunter. The Force user classes need to speed up a bit more. The Smuggler and Imperial Agent both use the cover system and while I could not get used to the Smuggler the Imperial Agent was a blast.... and yes thats including the cover system.
In short:
In TOR you get eight Knights of the Old Republic quiality games to get you to level cap instead of the usual treadmill in other MMOs. You get the Raiding (We still need to see more info on this), PvP warzones, PvP Open world, Highend level crafting and the usual Achivements etc you would see in other MMOs.
Will it sell, yes. Will it last, too be seen.
Id say that Taral V video is damn nice looking.
Its not revolutionary, its not some sort of holographic video game expericence.... its a damn MMO and looks like its going to be quality.
The balancing issues are things of the past, dev teams solves these problems constantly with patches, stop worrying yourself with that. This isnt the early 90's.
I don't think this will be a disaster but I don't think it will kill WOW. WOW fans for the most part are Blizzard fans. They came to that game because they loved Blizzard games and they'll stick with it until they either get bored or Blizzard makes another MMORPG. Bioware is taking the correct approach; they are taking what works and attempting to improve and add their own things. From what I've seen ont he official forums, they are pulling in Star Wars fans and KOTOR fans, NOT WOW fans. As a matter of fact WOW is bashed more than any game on that forum.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Well, I would also say, that Star Wars itself is not what it used to be. To me the magic is long gone... Even for the old movies. My patience is spend, and I think the prequels are fine. It's all the other stuff Lucas % Friends have been digging at that really made me associate Star Wars with bad things.
The problem with Star Wars is that the mythology that really makes it different is all related to Jedi, and the Force, and the iconic Lightsabers and hooded warrior monks. Without this, Star Wars is not really that special, but so what? That in itself is fine, and proves nothing.
However, for me it's impossible not to be thrown off by the fan service. While it's fine in the context of their Expanded Universe, that Jedi roam the galaxy, it really is just hardcore fan service, and as a result, Jedi/Sith are nowhere near as cool or fascinating as they used to be. They used to be the coolest characters in all of Literature, but with the jedi slapsticked on everything related to Star Wars and Lucas Arts, it has more than worn it's course.
They over sold the thing that made it special, through their books, games, marketing, tv shows, whatever. The mystery, and excitement and rarity of them are gone and replaced with, dude-who-takes-himself-to-seriously-with-a-glowing-sword.
I don't hate Star Wars. The moves were a special effects revolution when they came out, and a good example of the Heroes Journey done right, and they are a classic slice of time from the 70s/80s, but they really, really oversold this brand.
You're confusing personal burnout with a franchise that you proclaim as "oversold" or well past it's prime. Hate to break it to you, but ti's still a very popular and very profitable franchise as it gets introduced to each new generation of kids and young adults. As someone who was an early teenager when "A New Hope" released, I am just as enamored of Star Wars now as I was back then. I love Jedi and I don't have one iota of a problem with Jedi overkill in games, books or movies. If any franchise done right has a chance against World of Warcraft, it would be Star Wars and Bioware.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
only if people come into the game expecting a major change in DIKU based MMO design. I am confident Bioware will release a polished game, but I would not expect anything revolutionary
I miss DAoC
First of all, who cares about how popular it is? Millions of people follow horrible trends, ideologies and questionable things. It proves nothing...
Yeah you could call it personal burnout, but I would prefer to describe it, as retaining taste. I'm not a person who goes around "lucas raped my childhood OMG!!!111" but I do find that the magic is lost. Good for you, that you like it as much as you did back as when you were a kid. I am not just sure what that is going to prove, in the face of all the stupid things Lucas and LucasArts have pulled over the years on this one.
I have a problem with Jedi overkill in their games. Why wouldn't I? It makes Jedi not special. They are a clichee and a stereotype within itself. They were great in the old movies because you didn't see them all the time. They held back the good parts, and the fights down.. But in the new films, and games like Force Unleashed it's all fan service, that makes it crumble like a bad Michael Bay film. His solution to having a mediocre story was throwing as many jedis at the problems, to keep people interested.
Just because you throw on 300 jedi into attack of the clones, does not not make it a better film. It just makes it more boring the next time you show jedi. It didn't matter how powerful you were in force unleashed. It just made it boring. And in SWTOR, it will do nothing for the game that you fight multiple dudes from level 1 because it's heroric.
It's soooo missing the point of what is truly interesting. Nearly half of all action games have you play as some powerful entity(even within biowares games... grey warden.. jedi... specter.. martial arts legend.. take your pick as the character in one of their games. same stuff, different scenario).
I think it won't scale well. with their combat system, I doubt there will be a nice sense of progression or a feeling of becoming more powerful. Even if you would fight many many many more characters at higher levels at once.. like 50-60 wompa rats at the same time in a Dantooine style Dynasty warrior battlefield, I don't think the player would care that much.
Inherently it's just not very interesting, with their set up.
As for your last comment, I merely shake my head. It's too bad that this game have fans that have this fixation on "beating" World of Warcraft. Really.. Are you not past this point? Is this still what trouble your little minds? Please wake up, and releaise that WoW is not something to beat.
For those who likes themepark mmo's with no depth, repeative gameplay and nothing special beside the IP, this will be a great game (those who fail to find a leading raidguild in wow due to lack of any hand-eye-coordination).
For those who like sandbox-games with in-depth game elements, crafting system or player talent based playstyle, this WILL BE a big disaster.
Its definitly nothing for gamers who like games that are for "grown ups", but only for wow-style gamers.
I cant think about a Star Wars MMO where u can start as a jedi or sith whatoever.... biggest fail in this game.
Just my 2 cents
To put it bluntly...."NO" This game rocks!....I have played it and it is far better than I expected it to be. It will indeed be the next long living King of MMO's!
Technically you don't start as a jedi or a sith. You just start as someone strong with the force. (Everyone has the force in them).
Other than that, your trying to hard.
I do agree that the Star Wars franchise has been oversold and too popularized. Much of that can be attributted to Lucas and his questionable views on what makes his franchise great. In fact, it makes me question how much of the Star Wars universe Lucas can take credit for.
In fact, the Empire Strikes Back was only based around Lucas' draft, and was mainly written by sci-fi writer Leigh Brackett and film writer Lawrence Kasdan, and this is widely considered as the Best of all of the Star Wars films. Lucas didn't even direct another Star Wars film until Episode 1, which he had immediate complete control over, which he probably didn't have with his original three.
It could also be that Lucas has gone so far from being the daring director who wants to go against film trends that he's become the film trends. He's obsessed with movie magic, but he doesn't understand that the kind of movie magic needed is the kind that tells a well thought out, epic story with great characters. Not one note annoying (possibly racist) characters who are only around for the amusement of small children.
But I'm digressing, my main point is the best thing that could ever happen with this franchise is for Lucas to pass the torch to someone else, in which case something like The Old Republic comes to mind.
We have a new story, new characters to explore, and a more lore packed into these games than one can even imagine, and it's all full of awesome. It's no secret as to why people love KOTOR, and will gravitate towards TOR. Lucas doesn't have as much involvement in this as he would in making one of the movies.
As for the Jedis, the Jedi's are more like monks to me than anything. Peaceful, but deadly. It also kind of makes sense for Jedi to be running around everywhere in The Old Republic. This isn't based in Skywalker's time, mind you.
And lastly, the only way the magic is gone for the original three movies is if you watch the butchery that is the "remastered" versions.
Groovy.
Only a disaster for those games that people are playing as a stop gap. Other than that it will be great game.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I think the best description I ever heard about Lucas was, "He's an idea man, he has great ideas, but once he has them you have to take them away from him or he will ruin them." It was one of his own people that said that about him about six or seven years ago. This is a man that retconed his entire universe because, he suddenly decided one day that wookies just didn't look good as jedi so he would never allow another one to be made. So there are three wookie jedi and that is it.
As to the game itself, I feel that the current leads in the game are a lot like Lucas in that they are limiting what is allowed to be played by people. I don't think it is just lucas that is a danger to the star wars ip, but pretty much everyone going into it with a human centric mind set.
I don't think it'll be a disaster (unless the following is considered by Bioware/EA to be a disaster): I think it'll sell like gangbusters, but I do not believe it will retain a majority of subs (million+) past 3 months.
A good game these days is revolutionary in itself most current MMOs are stuck down a dead end path which includes:
End Game in a Week
Raids]
Guilds
Remove all of these dead end lazy design components and return to real worlds that are worth playing in and we will be back on the right tracks.
A decent MMO with some longevity a decent world to tootle around in and more than 9 months of gameplay a lot to ask but you never know.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Lucas rejected the script written by Leigh Brackett and asked for a complete rewrite. She couldn't do it because she was dying of cancer, so Lucas wrote one himself, bringing Lawrance Kasdan in at the end to help him with the finishing touches. That script is the one used for ESB. Instead of putting his own name on it Lucas credited Brackett out of respect.