I have yet too meet one person in game (faeblight Guardian side) that was upset with the patch, several mages have been happy in public channels though. The Wowified official forums is unfortunately the worst thing with Rift. The new content is fun and the tweaks are logical. This is a good game!
And the WoW-like community is exactly why I left Rift to join my friends back in WoW again. There's absolutely no difference between the two games besides for the fact that, well, one is well-made and the other isn't.
I have yet too meet one person in game (faeblight Guardian side) that was upset with the patch, several mages have been happy in public channels though. The Wowified official forums is unfortunately the worst thing with Rift. The new content is fun and the tweaks are logical. This is a good game!
And the WoW-like community is exactly why I left Rift to join my friends back in WoW again. There's absolutely no difference between the two games besides for the fact that, well, one is well-made and the other isn't.
...Then why did you go back to WoW?
Bad pun aside. That point is a bit of a matter of opinion when the 'polish' out the door and speed at which Trion is trying to deal with things seems pretty good. Saying one or the other isn't well-made stands as a rather strong juxtaposition to the common commentary.
As for the patch. Seems fair, logical, and necessary.
And my opinion... Anyone complaining about that is too much of a metagaming godmodder who doesn't like challenge in their combat and should go back to playing a game more their speed like smiting citizens and tormenting populations in SimCity.
EDIT: And to note, I am currently playing the game with friends, and my main is a rogue who I switch between Sabo and Marksman as my primary.
I still use both and I still think both do perfectly fine damage. I still kill clerics in PvP even 1v1 quite frequently.
Have a mage alt which I'm still not as fond of, though I do like debuffing all my enemies and see them suddenly keel over from a ton of little damage compounding fast as a Archon/Domi primarily.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
And people are just sour because their OP class got nerfed. It happens all the time - I wouldn't worry much about their nerdcry.
I play a Warrior - and I could care less about the nerfs - many of them were needed. Not a big deal IMO
Yeah, the thing is you still have several competative and good specs at endgame. Rogue has none.
riiight, the rogues on the server I play are doing 250 to 400 damage per half second adding in about2400 damage in 4 seconds flat as I'm chained stunned. , the roigue is the second most OP class in game. If you are feel your are under powered, then you might need to ask for a template, cause Rogues are tanking dungeons better , then a pure tanking spec, and do dps, better and faster then a mage.
2400 damage in 4 seconds while stunned wow. Warriors can do about double that while CCing too.
Anyway, I get one shot by mages for 4.5k. Dps better and faster than a mage? What are you on?
riiight, the rogues on the server I play are doing 250 to 400 damage per half second adding in about2400 damage in 4 seconds flat as I'm chained stunned. , the roigue is the second most OP class in game. If you are feel your are under powered, then you might need to ask for a template, cause Rogues are tanking dungeons better , then a pure tanking spec, and do dps, better and faster then a mage.
This is true to a point. Most rogues are just used to the insane burst they get from speccing Sab early-mid game, and then get upset at how easily that can be countered later on. However, when played well, a rogue still has greater burst than most of the other specs in the game, as well as some very good survivability. The class that comes to mind that out bursts rogues endgame would be a properly geared pyromancer, and that's primarily due to 1 skill (Fulminate) which crits for a hellova lot of damage. However, if that skill is on CD, there are a lot of procs that need to happen to get a full burst going. Rogue bursts are much more reliable.
Also, the 2400 damage you're talking about I'm seeing from rogues as early as mid-game. Endgame I've seen them do almost twice that. Very tough to do that as a mage without a good bit of luck.
Hello core PvP player. If you think your last comments bring credibility to any of your arguments, you're sorely mistaken. So lets look at the actual points you're trying to make:
- I just realised you are not level 50. I realise that the game needs to be fun at all levels, but having balance arguments for anything besides the max level is pointless.
Now lets start over. I play as a healing cleric so I'm usually at the receiving end of the blades/blasts of the dps classes:
In the two days that the patch is out I have seen a bigger range gap between warriors that can do damage and warriors that can poke-poke-poke me. Specifically, the excellent players that I knew before the patch can kill me as easily as they could before. However, there is now quite a bit more people that prior to patch were just outdpsing my heals while now they can't (and shouldn't tbh).
A lot more drains are flying around than before for some reason. It may be that mages are using alternate builds as well, or that warriors are testing different builds that actually compliment their team's synergy instead of the usual pew pew. There is also a lot more of healing debuff flying, especially from ranged rogues, who seem to have multiplied after the saboteur changes. Personally I'd take sabos as they were than healing debuffs hehe.
What you said about the saboteur charge that stuns, it was always there, it was not introduced with this patch, so I'm not sure what the problem is.
The balance or synergy of classes in a certain battlefield is more or less down to luck. Sometimes you get to a group that synergises well, sometimes you don't. I am talking about total random groups, because that's how I play in warfronts.
Regarding translocate, I'm sure it will be fixed eventually, as the ability to cary rocks while invisible was fixed.
No comment on weapon scaling, I have little experience on this at end level.
Overall I don't see anything really gamebreaking. All I see is people overreacting. Here's the thing. When something doesn't go your way it's natural to look for reasons outside yourself. The official forums and all the whining is a good self confidence boost for those who think that it's not them but it's balance of classes/balance of weapons/ balance of sides or whatever other reason you may come up with.
Imbalances will always exist. The good players know how to overcome them, the average get swept by the whining of the bad players.
Do you know what will happen when they finally bring rogues on par with the other specs? They'll own everyone, not because the class is overpowered, but because they've learned to survived with the gymped state, thus any upgrade will superboost them.
A couple more things regarding PvP. Valor does make a difference in survivability, there is a reason I'm usually the last healer standing when the opposite team streamrolls our positions. Also self survivability is more important than healing output in PvP. When you're dead you can't heal. This is also annoying with some dps specced people, so thin in survivability that they can't even survive the 2 secs it takes me to fire up a heal.
As for the pyro burst, I'm pretty sure it'll be toned down. So I suppose those kind of mages will have their fun while it lasts, the same way warriors and rogues had their fun with the broken armor penetration skills. When eventually though it'll get toned down, only the good mages will maintain their presence in the PvP front, while the not so good will go into a whine parade on the forums.
Full shadow priests were an awesome addition to the end game raiding guilds, especially the ones deep into Naxxramas. The problem of course is that you need to compete with the rest of the casters for damage gear.
did you play WoW ? if So, I will simply null and void any opinion you have regarding pvp. I answered it for you, game set , match point me.
Your prerogative. And yes, I did play WoW, as I did play a dozen other MMOs. Your obsession with that one game is noted.
While my opinion on PvP is void (currently at prestige rank 5 btw from pure pugging) yours that not even at max level isn't? Interesting.
Edit: Clerics were pretty much left untouched. Yes the synergies between classes have changed (as I said, more healing debuffs are flying around now), but the class itself has not changed. Cleric is a decent class, not excelling at anything but it's solid at everything it does. That's the way it was before the patch and that's the way it still is.
I did not PvP at all in WoW. Please, if you want to make an actual argument, stick with what you think are issues in the game. You really know little about the people you're responding to and making gross generalisations is not making your points stronger.
I also never put a blame on you for not being at max level. You do need to realise though that certain issues that were present while levelling are not present at max while you get different issues there. If we're talking balance, I think it's safer to talk about max level, since its there where you'll spend your majority of time PvPing anyway.
Edit: Healing clerics have some escape tools but not much. Most of our survivability is due to actively using skills. So, in order to kill us you need to shut us down, either with stuns, silences or healing debuffs or a combination of course. Without them it's near impossible to bring down a good cleric, save from focus fire from the entire opposing team. But with such focus fire nothing can really live, not just the cleric.
Me talking about WoW PvP? Have you been reading what I've posted or you slapped me a label and ignored everything?
This is my last post on the matter, unless you have some actual arguments related to Rift to discuss. Going back and forth trying to discredit me while ignoring my actual points is not what I call constructive discussion.
You realise these are the Rift forums right and this is a discussion regarding a Rift patch? Who cares about WoW PvP, balance or whatever issue?
rift has taken a slide in xfire numbers ever since the patch.
though expect the numbers to rise since this is invite a friend free weekend.
monday will paint a true picture since eu/us sub time will be up.
weirdly enough i cannot understand why a major nerf/buff patch would be launched few days from subs been due .espically since there is a huge wait and see crowd out there.
Monday will definitely see a decline in subscriptions. It's how MMOs operate these days and retention is generally low. Claiming however that the retention will be low because of the 1.1 patch puts you on a shaky ground. The thing is, for every warrior that rage quits over losing his uber status, how many rogues, mages and clerics would finally say enough is enough and quit instead?
When making balancing changes it's better to look at the overall long term health of the game, even if that means losing subscriptions in the short term.
Monday will definitely see a decline in subscriptions. It's how MMOs operate these days and retention is generally low. Claiming however that the retention will be low because of the 1.1 patch puts you on a shaky ground. The thing is, for every warrior that rage quits over losing his uber status, how many rogues, mages and clerics would finally say enough is enough and quit instead?
When making balancing changes it's better to look at the overall long term health of the game, even if that means losing subscriptions in the short term.
You forget that the patch actually hit rogues hard too.No rogue soul got buffed and 3 of them got nerfed ,2 very badly.
clerics remain unchanged .
only mages got buffed and those who liked healing as mages got nerfed.
So to summarize,warriors and rogues hit with mjor nerfs,clerics unchanged largely,mages buffed but their healing nerfed.
personally as i stated i am a causal gamer with rift so not really bothered much.but i played enough mmo to notice some things
i think 1 major complaint was taking 1 OP class and replacing it with another.Sadly trion is not the first or last to make this mistake.
Now if you nerf then you MUST be careful not to replace one beast with another period.Because then when you nerf that new beast you have alienated 2 sets of people rather then just 1 orginally.
Most of the changes made sense, especially those related to the Sab and RiftBlade classes. Any objective person should be able to see that and recognize this was the right decision. This wasn't just FOTM syndrome, this was a clear balance issue. I commend the Rift team for making the tough (but right) decision.
Comments
And the WoW-like community is exactly why I left Rift to join my friends back in WoW again. There's absolutely no difference between the two games besides for the fact that, well, one is well-made and the other isn't.
...Then why did you go back to WoW?
Bad pun aside. That point is a bit of a matter of opinion when the 'polish' out the door and speed at which Trion is trying to deal with things seems pretty good. Saying one or the other isn't well-made stands as a rather strong juxtaposition to the common commentary.
As for the patch. Seems fair, logical, and necessary.
And my opinion... Anyone complaining about that is too much of a metagaming godmodder who doesn't like challenge in their combat and should go back to playing a game more their speed like smiting citizens and tormenting populations in SimCity.
EDIT: And to note, I am currently playing the game with friends, and my main is a rogue who I switch between Sabo and Marksman as my primary.
I still use both and I still think both do perfectly fine damage. I still kill clerics in PvP even 1v1 quite frequently.
Have a mage alt which I'm still not as fond of, though I do like debuffing all my enemies and see them suddenly keel over from a ton of little damage compounding fast as a Archon/Domi primarily.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Yeah, the thing is you still have several competative and good specs at endgame. Rogue has none.
2400 damage in 4 seconds while stunned wow. Warriors can do about double that while CCing too.
Anyway, I get one shot by mages for 4.5k. Dps better and faster than a mage? What are you on?
This game was ALWAYS a WoW clone. Trion even promoted it that way.
This is true to a point. Most rogues are just used to the insane burst they get from speccing Sab early-mid game, and then get upset at how easily that can be countered later on. However, when played well, a rogue still has greater burst than most of the other specs in the game, as well as some very good survivability. The class that comes to mind that out bursts rogues endgame would be a properly geared pyromancer, and that's primarily due to 1 skill (Fulminate) which crits for a hellova lot of damage. However, if that skill is on CD, there are a lot of procs that need to happen to get a full burst going. Rogue bursts are much more reliable.
Also, the 2400 damage you're talking about I'm seeing from rogues as early as mid-game. Endgame I've seen them do almost twice that. Very tough to do that as a mage without a good bit of luck.
Hello core PvP player. If you think your last comments bring credibility to any of your arguments, you're sorely mistaken. So lets look at the actual points you're trying to make:
- I just realised you are not level 50. I realise that the game needs to be fun at all levels, but having balance arguments for anything besides the max level is pointless.
Now lets start over. I play as a healing cleric so I'm usually at the receiving end of the blades/blasts of the dps classes:
In the two days that the patch is out I have seen a bigger range gap between warriors that can do damage and warriors that can poke-poke-poke me. Specifically, the excellent players that I knew before the patch can kill me as easily as they could before. However, there is now quite a bit more people that prior to patch were just outdpsing my heals while now they can't (and shouldn't tbh).
A lot more drains are flying around than before for some reason. It may be that mages are using alternate builds as well, or that warriors are testing different builds that actually compliment their team's synergy instead of the usual pew pew. There is also a lot more of healing debuff flying, especially from ranged rogues, who seem to have multiplied after the saboteur changes. Personally I'd take sabos as they were than healing debuffs hehe.
What you said about the saboteur charge that stuns, it was always there, it was not introduced with this patch, so I'm not sure what the problem is.
The balance or synergy of classes in a certain battlefield is more or less down to luck. Sometimes you get to a group that synergises well, sometimes you don't. I am talking about total random groups, because that's how I play in warfronts.
Regarding translocate, I'm sure it will be fixed eventually, as the ability to cary rocks while invisible was fixed.
No comment on weapon scaling, I have little experience on this at end level.
Overall I don't see anything really gamebreaking. All I see is people overreacting. Here's the thing. When something doesn't go your way it's natural to look for reasons outside yourself. The official forums and all the whining is a good self confidence boost for those who think that it's not them but it's balance of classes/balance of weapons/ balance of sides or whatever other reason you may come up with.
Imbalances will always exist. The good players know how to overcome them, the average get swept by the whining of the bad players.
Do you know what will happen when they finally bring rogues on par with the other specs? They'll own everyone, not because the class is overpowered, but because they've learned to survived with the gymped state, thus any upgrade will superboost them.
A couple more things regarding PvP. Valor does make a difference in survivability, there is a reason I'm usually the last healer standing when the opposite team streamrolls our positions. Also self survivability is more important than healing output in PvP. When you're dead you can't heal. This is also annoying with some dps specced people, so thin in survivability that they can't even survive the 2 secs it takes me to fire up a heal.
As for the pyro burst, I'm pretty sure it'll be toned down. So I suppose those kind of mages will have their fun while it lasts, the same way warriors and rogues had their fun with the broken armor penetration skills. When eventually though it'll get toned down, only the good mages will maintain their presence in the PvP front, while the not so good will go into a whine parade on the forums.
Business as usual.
Your prerogative. And yes, I did play WoW, as I did play a dozen other MMOs. Your obsession with that one game is noted.
While my opinion on PvP is void (currently at prestige rank 5 btw from pure pugging) yours that not even at max level isn't? Interesting.
Edit: Clerics were pretty much left untouched. Yes the synergies between classes have changed (as I said, more healing debuffs are flying around now), but the class itself has not changed. Cleric is a decent class, not excelling at anything but it's solid at everything it does. That's the way it was before the patch and that's the way it still is.
I did not PvP at all in WoW. Please, if you want to make an actual argument, stick with what you think are issues in the game. You really know little about the people you're responding to and making gross generalisations is not making your points stronger.
I also never put a blame on you for not being at max level. You do need to realise though that certain issues that were present while levelling are not present at max while you get different issues there. If we're talking balance, I think it's safer to talk about max level, since its there where you'll spend your majority of time PvPing anyway.
Edit: Healing clerics have some escape tools but not much. Most of our survivability is due to actively using skills. So, in order to kill us you need to shut us down, either with stuns, silences or healing debuffs or a combination of course. Without them it's near impossible to bring down a good cleric, save from focus fire from the entire opposing team. But with such focus fire nothing can really live, not just the cleric.
I quit awhile back but looking at these changes makes me consider coming back.
These changes are PERFECT. The thing I think they should tweak is considerably weaken CC. CC is way too strong in RIFT at the minute.
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Me and a Friend are Bad At Games
Me talking about WoW PvP? Have you been reading what I've posted or you slapped me a label and ignored everything?
This is my last post on the matter, unless you have some actual arguments related to Rift to discuss. Going back and forth trying to discredit me while ignoring my actual points is not what I call constructive discussion.
You realise these are the Rift forums right and this is a discussion regarding a Rift patch? Who cares about WoW PvP, balance or whatever issue?
rift has taken a slide in xfire numbers ever since the patch.
though expect the numbers to rise since this is invite a friend free weekend.
monday will paint a true picture since eu/us sub time will be up.
weirdly enough i cannot understand why a major nerf/buff patch would be launched few days from subs been due .espically since there is a huge wait and see crowd out there.
lmao, no they ain't you crazy fool.
gtfo ; )
Monday will definitely see a decline in subscriptions. It's how MMOs operate these days and retention is generally low. Claiming however that the retention will be low because of the 1.1 patch puts you on a shaky ground. The thing is, for every warrior that rage quits over losing his uber status, how many rogues, mages and clerics would finally say enough is enough and quit instead?
When making balancing changes it's better to look at the overall long term health of the game, even if that means losing subscriptions in the short term.
Warriors lost there 'i win' button. They could stun me and kill me and I couldn't get a spell in.
In game you see next to nothing mentioned about the TWEAKS, god I hate the word nerf. It s a few whiners making the boards light up is all.
You forget that the patch actually hit rogues hard too.No rogue soul got buffed and 3 of them got nerfed ,2 very badly.
clerics remain unchanged .
only mages got buffed and those who liked healing as mages got nerfed.
So to summarize,warriors and rogues hit with mjor nerfs,clerics unchanged largely,mages buffed but their healing nerfed.
personally as i stated i am a causal gamer with rift so not really bothered much.but i played enough mmo to notice some things
i think 1 major complaint was taking 1 OP class and replacing it with another.Sadly trion is not the first or last to make this mistake.
Now if you nerf then you MUST be careful not to replace one beast with another period.Because then when you nerf that new beast you have alienated 2 sets of people rather then just 1 orginally.
Most of the changes made sense, especially those related to the Sab and RiftBlade classes. Any objective person should be able to see that and recognize this was the right decision. This wasn't just FOTM syndrome, this was a clear balance issue. I commend the Rift team for making the tough (but right) decision.