yeah warriors were pretty op pre-patch in pvp. i just spammed literally spammed 1-2 macro keys with my champ/bm/para and people just... died. i actually burst out laughing the first time i used the build. however now its nowehere nearly as easy but at the same time i feel more fulfilled that i am actually doing more work to achieve success instead of using some cheap trick that was clearly broken. i just just hope that they apply the same balancing to pyros now :P.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
PVP... it always messes up things for PVE gamers. I say take out PVP of PVE games and make games entirely seperate. EITHER a PVP MMO OR a PVE MMO, but trying to do both always ends up in a suckfest.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
PVP... it always messes up things for PVE gamers. I say take out PVP of PVE games and make games entirely seperate. EITHER a PVP MMO OR a PVE MMO, but trying to do both always ends up in a suckfest.
I think Guild Wars did this right. 90% of skills are identical in PvE or PvP, but the 10% where the PvE forms are unbalancing for PvP behave differently against other players than they do vs. mobs, with the differences in the tooltips. This capability should be designed into every PvE/PvP MMO. PvE should be balanced for maximum fun, PvP skills balanced for fairness vs. other players.
It's ironic, because in some ways, Trion did things exactly backwards. They have PvP souls that only effect other players, because those skills might unbalance PvE, yet they have no problem killing the fun of PvE in an attempt to provide PvP balance.
Of course, we are kidding ourselves if we think the only reason some souls were nerfed into uselessness was PvP balance. They also wanted to kill the most efficient solo PvE builds, because the game is lacking in content and people are able to reach the level cap too quickly. Balancing for fun levels went out the window very fast, to be replaced by "stretch out out limited content at any cost".
Really, the root sin for the game's problems is the fact that the game world is just too small and the content too sparse to support a healthier leveling curve.
Nerfing does'nt stop people playing WoW I doubt it'll stop people playing RIFT . You'll always get a few people throwing thier toys out of the pram in forums then they just settle down and get on with it . Its quite simple if nerfing effects you so badly give up mmos because it has and always will happen in them . If it gets rid of a few immature individuals from the game all the better in my opinion we can do without them .
1.1 was a pvp fix, more or less. Good warriors still stomp people, just with less one shotting duing CC locks. Riftblade warriors wont be able to run around spamming a 500+dmg ranged skill with no cooldown and instant cast as well.
Rogues got really the only real PVE nerf, with sabo's being brought down to mid-pack DPS like all the other range DPS classes (including marksman, another rogue range DPS class)
Other than that, the pyromancer pvp has gatherd more attention than it use to, for what it was. Its basically the same mage pvp glass connon class it was before, however, given the mage communities outcries (they were mostly for pve btw) the remaining rift community who endured nerfs is focusing their energies on getting that mage soul nerfed. I will say (i am a mage) that pvp pyro was terribly boring. You sat in Ground of Strength, one of two tine ground effect buffs you must stand in to gain its benefit. Being inside GOS makes you immune to CC, something a class that is one shot by anyone almost needs given the amount of CC in this game (most pyros have about 3.8k-4k HP, as a pryo fire soul point skill removes HP for fire dmg). However it doesnt stop there with GOS, you get 30% damage reduction in it, ok now were 4 shot...but wait, theres more...you also stand to place a 2sec stun when attacking from this effect. It use to stun lock, not it only kind of stun locks. Add this all to a small damage increase, and well, Rift community that isnt mages want this class nerfed...bad, more as a revenge nerf tbh, but its still a terribly unfun, low skill required pvp soul, as are most the FOTM per class.
So in short, anger over the needlessly strong classes that were pvp nerfed is now being focused on the pyromancer, since its deemed OP. In PVE the warrior is king of DPS in greenscale (using wonderful 2 button macro mashing to achive best in game dps), followed by rogue melee, tailed up by all range DPS classes. PVP is still as boring and "either you stomp the other team or get stomped" mechanics, with a super rare "decent" fight. Diffrence is, the 70% of the community that rolled a FOTM sabo or warrior are now super pissed, and out for revenge on those who stuck with a certain class that now is enjoying one "no skill required" pvp class.
Also i would like to point out that, at least on my server, 99% of players at 50 only care about warfronts and nothing else, maing raiding a rare possiblility. Basically those who did stay past the first month, did so reluctantly, and are just waiting for another game (whichever one it is) to come out.
This game has lost a good amount of steam, and the remaining crowd left seems to be waiting on a major upcomming release. Its a good game if your into what wow did, either by not playing wow, or being obessed with that games specific mechanics. Its not a bad game, but unless some serious content comes out, both for pvp and pve, its only going to get more stale for those who are still playing.
Ok so, rriftblade was spamming FS everty time with 500 damage, but NOW pyros spam flame bolt, fireball that hit more than warriors before 1.1.
1.1 was a pvp fix, more or less. Good warriors still stomp people, just with less one shotting duing CC locks. Riftblade warriors wont be able to run around spamming a 500+dmg ranged skill with no cooldown and instant cast as well.
...
Ok so, rriftblade was spamming FS everty time with 500 damage, but NOW pyros spam flame bolt, fireball that hit more than warriors before 1.1.
1.1 it's a simple shit, with 0 balance.
Actually the game is a lot more balanced after patch 1.1 than before. There is basically only one ability that is currently creating issues and I'm sure it'll be worked on in the future update that will include rogue balancing.
The thing about mages is that their damage output hasn't changed much from before patch 1.1 to after. And I say that because I get to heal that damage and the pressure that they put on healers hasn't changed much. The thing is that certain other things have changed as well, things that are not related to damage at all:
The first big change was the silences/stuns/roots etc having no diminishing returns. You could keep a group of people silenced as a saboteur rogue for long enough for the warriors to charge in, stun and kill
Due to the changes in the saboteur soul you get to see considerably less saboteurs and thus much less AoE silences than before.
Caster cloth armor was buffed, while the armor penetration bugs were fixed.
Wariors could charge a cloth wearer and kill him in basically one GCD. Then proceed to charge the next. Prior to 1.1 mages usually didn't have the chance to dish the damage.
Saboteurs don't need to cast, thus they could build charges on cloth targets in and out of LOS and then one shot those cloth mages.
Now that the two major killers in the pre 1.1 game were toned down to more reasonable levels, mages have the chance to actually do some damage.
The chance to do some damage becomes kind of ridiculous when they place down a circle of strength and gain damage mitigation and immunity to pretty much every crowd control while in that circle.
Certain mages using the overstacking weapon bug along with the red bubble buff from warfronts started producing insane numbers of crit damage. Those numbers have disappeared once the overstacking bug was fixed.
As you can see, it's not the pyro damage that is so special, but the condition at which that damage is delivered along with the surrounding environment being more caster friendly than before. In my opinion, once they work on the ground of strength, things will normalise again. I wouldn't be surprised if ground of strength will become some form of damage debuff.
Of course, once the mage balancing and rogue tuning patch is introduced, we'll see a new influx of people who will claim how th game has less balance than before and how the soul system is ruined, how they have been pigeonholed into certain roles and similar nonsense people are crying when they lose their FOTM builds.
Comments
yeah warriors were pretty op pre-patch in pvp. i just spammed literally spammed 1-2 macro keys with my champ/bm/para and people just... died. i actually burst out laughing the first time i used the build. however now its nowehere nearly as easy but at the same time i feel more fulfilled that i am actually doing more work to achieve success instead of using some cheap trick that was clearly broken. i just just hope that they apply the same balancing to pyros now :P.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
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PVP... it always messes up things for PVE gamers. I say take out PVP of PVE games and make games entirely seperate. EITHER a PVP MMO OR a PVE MMO, but trying to do both always ends up in a suckfest.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I think Guild Wars did this right. 90% of skills are identical in PvE or PvP, but the 10% where the PvE forms are unbalancing for PvP behave differently against other players than they do vs. mobs, with the differences in the tooltips. This capability should be designed into every PvE/PvP MMO. PvE should be balanced for maximum fun, PvP skills balanced for fairness vs. other players.
It's ironic, because in some ways, Trion did things exactly backwards. They have PvP souls that only effect other players, because those skills might unbalance PvE, yet they have no problem killing the fun of PvE in an attempt to provide PvP balance.
Of course, we are kidding ourselves if we think the only reason some souls were nerfed into uselessness was PvP balance. They also wanted to kill the most efficient solo PvE builds, because the game is lacking in content and people are able to reach the level cap too quickly. Balancing for fun levels went out the window very fast, to be replaced by "stretch out out limited content at any cost".
Really, the root sin for the game's problems is the fact that the game world is just too small and the content too sparse to support a healthier leveling curve.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Nerfing does'nt stop people playing WoW I doubt it'll stop people playing RIFT . You'll always get a few people throwing thier toys out of the pram in forums then they just settle down and get on with it . Its quite simple if nerfing effects you so badly give up mmos because it has and always will happen in them . If it gets rid of a few immature individuals from the game all the better in my opinion we can do without them .
Ok so, rriftblade was spamming FS everty time with 500 damage, but NOW pyros spam flame bolt, fireball that hit more than warriors before 1.1.
1.1 it's a simple shit, with 0 balance.
Actually the game is a lot more balanced after patch 1.1 than before. There is basically only one ability that is currently creating issues and I'm sure it'll be worked on in the future update that will include rogue balancing.
The thing about mages is that their damage output hasn't changed much from before patch 1.1 to after. And I say that because I get to heal that damage and the pressure that they put on healers hasn't changed much. The thing is that certain other things have changed as well, things that are not related to damage at all:
The first big change was the silences/stuns/roots etc having no diminishing returns. You could keep a group of people silenced as a saboteur rogue for long enough for the warriors to charge in, stun and kill
Due to the changes in the saboteur soul you get to see considerably less saboteurs and thus much less AoE silences than before.
Caster cloth armor was buffed, while the armor penetration bugs were fixed.
Wariors could charge a cloth wearer and kill him in basically one GCD. Then proceed to charge the next. Prior to 1.1 mages usually didn't have the chance to dish the damage.
Saboteurs don't need to cast, thus they could build charges on cloth targets in and out of LOS and then one shot those cloth mages.
Now that the two major killers in the pre 1.1 game were toned down to more reasonable levels, mages have the chance to actually do some damage.
The chance to do some damage becomes kind of ridiculous when they place down a circle of strength and gain damage mitigation and immunity to pretty much every crowd control while in that circle.
Certain mages using the overstacking weapon bug along with the red bubble buff from warfronts started producing insane numbers of crit damage. Those numbers have disappeared once the overstacking bug was fixed.
As you can see, it's not the pyro damage that is so special, but the condition at which that damage is delivered along with the surrounding environment being more caster friendly than before. In my opinion, once they work on the ground of strength, things will normalise again. I wouldn't be surprised if ground of strength will become some form of damage debuff.
Of course, once the mage balancing and rogue tuning patch is introduced, we'll see a new influx of people who will claim how th game has less balance than before and how the soul system is ruined, how they have been pigeonholed into certain roles and similar nonsense people are crying when they lose their FOTM builds.