rift has taken a slide in xfire numbers ever since the patch.
though expect the numbers to rise since this is invite a friend free weekend.
monday will paint a true picture since eu/us sub time will be up.
weirdly enough i cannot understand why a major nerf/buff patch would be launched few days from subs been due .espically since there is a huge wait and see crowd out there.
because fixing bugs should be done regardless, not to mention the added content.. if anything doesnt it show that Trion arent concerned about sub numbers? but your right.. its way too soon to see whether the game is doing well retention wise.. the first few months are always volatile.. i expect it to do well.. but i could be wrong.. i have been in the past.. i probably will be again.. but for the moment.. im playing Rift and liking it.. no reason to stop .. yet..
Monday will definitely see a decline in subscriptions. It's how MMOs operate these days and retention is generally low. Claiming however that the retention will be low because of the 1.1 patch puts you on a shaky ground. The thing is, for every warrior that rage quits over losing his uber status, how many rogues, mages and clerics would finally say enough is enough and quit instead?
When making balancing changes it's better to look at the overall long term health of the game, even if that means losing subscriptions in the short term.
You forget that the patch actually hit rogues hard too.No rogue soul got buffed and 3 of them got nerfed ,2 very badly.
clerics remain unchanged .
only mages got buffed and those who liked healing as mages got nerfed.
So to summarize,warriors and rogues hit with mjor nerfs,clerics unchanged largely,mages buffed but their healing nerfed.
Nothing got nerfed, they got tweaked and BALANCED. The nerf term is overused. Anyone whining needs to learn to adjust and play their char. Using more then 2 buttons takes skill I guess, and my main is a Warrior. Needed tweaks IMO.
Monday will definitely see a decline in subscriptions. It's how MMOs operate these days and retention is generally low. Claiming however that the retention will be low because of the 1.1 patch puts you on a shaky ground. The thing is, for every warrior that rage quits over losing his uber status, how many rogues, mages and clerics would finally say enough is enough and quit instead?
When making balancing changes it's better to look at the overall long term health of the game, even if that means losing subscriptions in the short term.
You forget that the patch actually hit rogues hard too.No rogue soul got buffed and 3 of them got nerfed ,2 very badly.
clerics remain unchanged .
only mages got buffed and those who liked healing as mages got nerfed.
So to summarize,warriors and rogues hit with mjor nerfs,clerics unchanged largely,mages buffed but their healing nerfed.
personally as i stated i am a causal gamer with rift so not really bothered much.but i played enough mmo to notice some things
Where did Rogues get "major nerfs" besides the Sab? Rogues need a few tweaks but development need to be careful how these are implemented so warriors don't receive the same (if not greater) benefit, such as adding the DPS scale from attack power. If most Rogue classes received a +10% to DPS, they would be golden (perhaps even OP at that point). The other major issue Rogues have is terrible itemization for many "roles" especially tanking.
Monday will definitely see a decline in subscriptions. It's how MMOs operate these days and retention is generally low. Claiming however that the retention will be low because of the 1.1 patch puts you on a shaky ground. The thing is, for every warrior that rage quits over losing his uber status, how many rogues, mages and clerics would finally say enough is enough and quit instead?
When making balancing changes it's better to look at the overall long term health of the game, even if that means losing subscriptions in the short term.
You forget that the patch actually hit rogues hard too.No rogue soul got buffed and 3 of them got nerfed ,2 very badly.
clerics remain unchanged .
only mages got buffed and those who liked healing as mages got nerfed.
So to summarize,warriors and rogues hit with mjor nerfs,clerics unchanged largely,mages buffed but their healing nerfed.
Nothing got nerfed, they got tweaked and BALANCED. The nerf term is overused. Anyone whining needs to learn to adjust and play their char. Using more then 2 buttons takes skill I guess, and my main is a Warrior. Needed tweaks IMO.
That's not true at all. They did nerf, and it wasn't just warriors. They gutted many of the souls into being worthless.
If you now try to specialise, you are only gimping one's self. There are now "must have" skills (i.e. strik like iron), which forces certain soul assignments.
Monday will definitely see a decline in subscriptions. It's how MMOs operate these days and retention is generally low. Claiming however that the retention will be low because of the 1.1 patch puts you on a shaky ground. The thing is, for every warrior that rage quits over losing his uber status, how many rogues, mages and clerics would finally say enough is enough and quit instead?
When making balancing changes it's better to look at the overall long term health of the game, even if that means losing subscriptions in the short term.
You forget that the patch actually hit rogues hard too.No rogue soul got buffed and 3 of them got nerfed ,2 very badly.
clerics remain unchanged .
only mages got buffed and those who liked healing as mages got nerfed.
So to summarize,warriors and rogues hit with mjor nerfs,clerics unchanged largely,mages buffed but their healing nerfed.
Nothing got nerfed, they got tweaked and BALANCED. The nerf term is overused. Anyone whining needs to learn to adjust and play their char. Using more then 2 buttons takes skill I guess, and my main is a Warrior. Needed tweaks IMO.
Well lets face it changing words do not change the effect.by the way the word nerf started a s a joke some years ago in EQ1 and stuck since kind of like dkp did since most EQ1 inital raids involved dragons.
Monday will definitely see a decline in subscriptions. It's how MMOs operate these days and retention is generally low. Claiming however that the retention will be low because of the 1.1 patch puts you on a shaky ground. The thing is, for every warrior that rage quits over losing his uber status, how many rogues, mages and clerics would finally say enough is enough and quit instead?
When making balancing changes it's better to look at the overall long term health of the game, even if that means losing subscriptions in the short term.
You forget that the patch actually hit rogues hard too.No rogue soul got buffed and 3 of them got nerfed ,2 very badly.
clerics remain unchanged .
only mages got buffed and those who liked healing as mages got nerfed.
So to summarize,warriors and rogues hit with mjor nerfs,clerics unchanged largely,mages buffed but their healing nerfed.
Nothing got nerfed, they got tweaked and BALANCED. The nerf term is overused. Anyone whining needs to learn to adjust and play their char. Using more then 2 buttons takes skill I guess, and my main is a Warrior. Needed tweaks IMO.
That's not true at all. They did nerf, and it wasn't just warriors. They gutted many of the souls into being worthless.
If you now try to specialise, you are only gimping one's self. There are now "must have" skills (i.e. strik like iron), which forces certain soul assignments.
I disagree, but we ll probably never agree, so I ll just say, they were balanced not nerfed. People need to learn to adjust is all.
Monday will definitely see a decline in subscriptions. It's how MMOs operate these days and retention is generally low. Claiming however that the retention will be low because of the 1.1 patch puts you on a shaky ground. The thing is, for every warrior that rage quits over losing his uber status, how many rogues, mages and clerics would finally say enough is enough and quit instead?
When making balancing changes it's better to look at the overall long term health of the game, even if that means losing subscriptions in the short term.
You forget that the patch actually hit rogues hard too.No rogue soul got buffed and 3 of them got nerfed ,2 very badly.
clerics remain unchanged .
only mages got buffed and those who liked healing as mages got nerfed.
So to summarize,warriors and rogues hit with mjor nerfs,clerics unchanged largely,mages buffed but their healing nerfed.
Nothing got nerfed, they got tweaked and BALANCED. The nerf term is overused. Anyone whining needs to learn to adjust and play their char. Using more then 2 buttons takes skill I guess, and my main is a Warrior. Needed tweaks IMO.
That's not true at all. They did nerf, and it wasn't just warriors. They gutted many of the souls into being worthless.
If you now try to specialise, you are only gimping one's self. There are now "must have" skills (i.e. strik like iron), which forces certain soul assignments.
I disagree, but we ll probably never agree, so I ll just say, they were balanced not nerfed. People need to learn to adjust is all.
Balancing does not force one to change their game play completely. Nerfing does that.
The soul system was flexible, so that even the least efficient builds were still viable. Now that is not the case. Balancing does not cause such a scenario. Again nerfing does.
A LOT of Medium pops there (it's midday in the UK and it's the same story our end but we still have 4 days left of our 30), it's looking pritty ok seeing as it's offpeak in both regions
It's hardly a 'massive dropoff' that the jaded and doomsayers have been saying, and if it was if rumours are true then Trion could easily roll the servers back into the orginal 33 and still be running on profit (the rumour was that the 'new' servers aren't actally 'new servers' but the orginal servers sharded into multiple ones sharing the same character data to prevent the playerbase 'mobbing' quest areas - neat trick if true)
The Rouge 'rage' on the stealth side was the fact it was broken to begin with as mobs couldn't detect stealth at any level so we could walk around the world at lower levels perfectly ok... As for the changes barely anything has become 'unplayable' as the forums claim - then again the 'forum warriors' have complained it's a 'wow clone' and yet wanted every single thing thats 'missing' in Rift from WoW to be included ( Guild Banks ARE on the way in 1.2 tho - RVR is 'on the way' too. source: the Eurogamer interview this week)
Like I said before Trion are winning favour more becuase they've done and continue to do more 'day 1' then most devs do at this point and shown the playerbase the proper respect by not stringing them along with 'it'll be done soonTM' mericle content patches that deliver very little when they do actally hit once you've given them more money - Rift has 'progressed' in 30 days what normally takes other MMOs 3-4 months to do.
for those who are level 50 and doing a lot of pvp let me ask this question.
Did trion "tweak" the rogue/warrior from been OP to normal and then create a new beast in pyro mages.i been nuked heavily by this and they seems to do incredible dmg in 30s and so WF after patch.
f so they did a "no no" in terms of balance.
i will disagree with people who say rift will die it will do better no matter what then many mmo out there.But is might have an issue with too many servers .
Saboteur spike damage was nerfed. Right now it's not possible to get one shotted the way pyro mages can do it as we speak. Expect pyros to get the nerf hammer in the same manner warriors got toned down. Saboteurs also need a bigger investment into the tree to reap the same benefits rogues were getting with minimal investment in the soul. I don't consider this a bad move necessarily.
Overall I prdict that rogues will get buffed, the real question is how much.
Bards lost the 10 people healing but gained instead an extra bard slot in every raid. The same thing with chloromancers, who by the way are still the most potent healing soul in the game even after the changes.
I see only two real issues after the patch:
Non saboteur rogues need some damage boost
Pyromages need some damage reduction or the overall mechanic of ground of strenth some changes (like having a damage reduction while using GoS).
A LOT of Medium pops there (it's midday in the UK and it's the same story our end but we still have 4 days left of our 30), it's looking pritty ok seeing as it's offpeak in both regions
It's hardly a 'massive dropoff' that the jaded and doomsayers have been saying, and if it was if rumours are true then Trion could easily roll the servers back into the orginal 33 and still be running on profit (the rumour was that the 'new' servers aren't actally 'new servers' but the orginal servers sharded into multiple ones sharing the same character data to prevent the playerbase 'mobbing' quest areas - neat trick if true)
The Rouge 'rage' on the stealth side was the fact it was broken to begin with as mobs couldn't detect stealth at any level so we could walk around the world at lower levels perfectly ok... As for the changes barely anything has become 'unplayable' as the forums claim - then again the 'forum warriors' have complained it's a 'wow clone' and yet wanted every single thing thats 'missing' in Rift from WoW to be included ( Guild Banks ARE on the way in 1.2 tho - RVR is 'on the way' too. source: the Eurogamer interview this week)
Like I said before Trion are winning favour more becuase they've done and continue to do more 'day 1' then most devs do at this point and shown the playerbase the proper respect by not stringing them along with 'it'll be done soonTM' mericle content patches that deliver very little when they do actally hit once you've given them more money - Rift has 'progressed' in 30 days what normally takes other MMOs 3-4 months to do.
EU subs (which includes the UK) don't kick in until the 4th.
Monday will definitely see a decline in subscriptions. It's how MMOs operate these days and retention is generally low. Claiming however that the retention will be low because of the 1.1 patch puts you on a shaky ground. The thing is, for every warrior that rage quits over losing his uber status, how many rogues, mages and clerics would finally say enough is enough and quit instead?
When making balancing changes it's better to look at the overall long term health of the game, even if that means losing subscriptions in the short term.
You forget that the patch actually hit rogues hard too.No rogue soul got buffed and 3 of them got nerfed ,2 very badly.
clerics remain unchanged .
only mages got buffed and those who liked healing as mages got nerfed.
So to summarize,warriors and rogues hit with mjor nerfs,clerics unchanged largely,mages buffed but their healing nerfed.
Nothing got nerfed, they got tweaked and BALANCED. The nerf term is overused. Anyone whining needs to learn to adjust and play their char. Using more then 2 buttons takes skill I guess, and my main is a Warrior. Needed tweaks IMO.
That's not true at all. They did nerf, and it wasn't just warriors. They gutted many of the souls into being worthless.
If you now try to specialise, you are only gimping one's self. There are now "must have" skills (i.e. strik like iron), which forces certain soul assignments.
I disagree, but we ll probably never agree, so I ll just say, they were balanced not nerfed. People need to learn to adjust is all.
Balancing does not force one to change their game play completely. Nerfing does that.
The soul system was flexible, so that even the least efficient builds were still viable. Now that is not the case. Balancing does not cause such a scenario. Again nerfing does.
Not going to agree at all. Balancing will change your gameplay completely. If all you do is hit 1 or 2 buttons to kill someone, and you re balanced (not nerfed) now you have to actually use skill, it isn t considered a nerf, it s BALANCING it to the other classes, to make it fair. Nerf isn t a word that comes into play , unless they literally get rid of a class completely. It s just an overused word.
for those who are level 50 and doing a lot of pvp let me ask this question.
Did trion "tweak" the rogue/warrior from been OP to normal and then create a new beast in pyro mages.i been nuked heavily by this and they seems to do incredible dmg in 30s and so WF after patch.
f so they did a "no no" in terms of balance.
What I've seen in the two days after the changes:
Lots of useless warriors being totally useless now.
The great warriors keep on owning like nothing happened
Different mage specs started appearing again, instead of the pyro only pre-patch
Pyros doing way too much spiky damage, their normal damage is counterable from a healer perspective but not the crit stuff.
Lots of different rogue specs appeared besides saboteur only. I am getting ambushed by stealthers now and ranged healing debuffs make my job miserable.
People will need some time to adjust, it's been only two days after all. My guess is that they will tone down the crit damage of pyros considerably while keeping them the biggest nukers in the game. But that's a personal guess and something Trion will work on in a future patch.
The thing is, they're fast at implementing additions and changes. You won't have to wait 4 months for improvements in your class from what I've seen. Worse case scenario it'll take a couple weeks.
for those who are level 50 and doing a lot of pvp let me ask this question.
Did trion "tweak" the rogue/warrior from been OP to normal and then create a new beast in pyro mages.i been nuked heavily by this and they seems to do incredible dmg in 30s and so WF after patch.
f so they did a "no no" in terms of balance.
i will disagree with people who say rift will die it will do better no matter what then many mmo out there.But is might have an issue with too many servers .
Currently Pyro/X/X mages are OP to the extreme, more so than any other build has been. With the right build they can cc and 1 - 2 shot people. As such it doesn't matter what the skill of the opponent is, as they can't react. They also implemented a "magic bullet" mechanism. Not only are they ranged, but they can shoot around corners.
Clerics can now do more damage than Rogues and Warriors, if built efficiently.
PvP in this game sucked big time anyway, so they would have been best just ditching it, instead of destory the PvE game aswell.
A LOT of Medium pops there (it's midday in the UK and it's the same story our end but we still have 4 days left of our 30), it's looking pritty ok seeing as it's offpeak in both regions
It's hardly a 'massive dropoff' that the jaded and doomsayers have been saying, and if it was if rumours are true then Trion could easily roll the servers back into the orginal 33 and still be running on profit (the rumour was that the 'new' servers aren't actally 'new servers' but the orginal servers sharded into multiple ones sharing the same character data to prevent the playerbase 'mobbing' quest areas - neat trick if true)
The Rouge 'rage' on the stealth side was the fact it was broken to begin with as mobs couldn't detect stealth at any level so we could walk around the world at lower levels perfectly ok... As for the changes barely anything has become 'unplayable' as the forums claim - then again the 'forum warriors' have complained it's a 'wow clone' and yet wanted every single thing thats 'missing' in Rift from WoW to be included ( Guild Banks ARE on the way in 1.2 tho - RVR is 'on the way' too. source: the Eurogamer interview this week)
Like I said before Trion are winning favour more becuase they've done and continue to do more 'day 1' then most devs do at this point and shown the playerbase the proper respect by not stringing them along with 'it'll be done soonTM' mericle content patches that deliver very little when they do actally hit once you've given them more money - Rift has 'progressed' in 30 days what normally takes other MMOs 3-4 months to do.
EU subs (which includes the UK) don't kick in until the 4th.
I did say that by sating 'our end' considering theres only two regions EU/US
A LOT of Medium pops there (it's midday in the UK and it's the same story our end but we still have 4 days left of our 30), it's looking pritty ok seeing as it's offpeak in both regions
It's hardly a 'massive dropoff' that the jaded and doomsayers have been saying, and if it was if rumours are true then Trion could easily roll the servers back into the orginal 33 and still be running on profit (the rumour was that the 'new' servers aren't actally 'new servers' but the orginal servers sharded into multiple ones sharing the same character data to prevent the playerbase 'mobbing' quest areas - neat trick if true)
The Rouge 'rage' on the stealth side was the fact it was broken to begin with as mobs couldn't detect stealth at any level so we could walk around the world at lower levels perfectly ok... As for the changes barely anything has become 'unplayable' as the forums claim - then again the 'forum warriors' have complained it's a 'wow clone' and yet wanted every single thing thats 'missing' in Rift from WoW to be included ( Guild Banks ARE on the way in 1.2 tho - RVR is 'on the way' too. source: the Eurogamer interview this week)
Like I said before Trion are winning favour more becuase they've done and continue to do more 'day 1' then most devs do at this point and shown the playerbase the proper respect by not stringing them along with 'it'll be done soonTM' mericle content patches that deliver very little when they do actally hit once you've given them more money - Rift has 'progressed' in 30 days what normally takes other MMOs 3-4 months to do.
EU subs (which includes the UK) don't kick in until the 4th.
Clerics can now do more damage than Rogues and Warriors, if built efficiently.
....
Not really. Most warrior combinations still outperform clerics, just not by a huge amount. Cleric dps didn't change post patch, it's just that warriors moved from 130%-150% everyone else to 110% everyone else with the exception of pyros.
Rogues are at about the same level as clerics with some souls performing even less.
My guess is that clerics are the jack of all trades. They don't excel at nothing but don't have any major weaknesses either. It wouldn't be unlikely if Trion was trying to balance dps in around the same level clerics are right now, or a bit above it.
Clerics can now do more damage than Rogues and Warriors, if built efficiently.
....
Not really. Most warrior combinations still outperform clerics, just not by a huge amount. Cleric dps didn't change post patch, it's just that warriors moved from 130%-150% everyone else to 110% everyone else with the exception of pyros.
Rogues are at about the same level as clerics with some souls performing even less.
My guess is that clerics are the jack of all trades. They don't excel at nothing but don't have any major weaknesses either. It wouldn't be unlikely if Trion was trying to balance dps in around the same level clerics are right now, or a bit above it.
Yes really! Cleric dps didn't change in the patch. The other classes did. I can't believe you seem fine that rogues are around Cleric dps, and by "around" I mean close but lower.
Yes really! Cleric dps didn't change in the patch. The other classes did. I can't believe you seem fine that rogues are around Cleric dps, and by "around" I mean close but lower.
I'm not fne with it and neither is Trion it seems. The thing is that all dps classes need to be either equal in output or bring something to the table that balances it. This is not a game where cleric = healing and rogue = dps. If both classes have their dps souls applied and are played by equally skilled players, there shouldn't be an artificial difference in dps between them. In my opinion of course. Otherwise why just not scrap the whole soul system and call clerics healers, rogues dps, warriors tank and so on.
What I'm saying is that it'll take a little time for the dust to settle. I'm sure you'll see improvements and adjustments in the rogue trees a lot faster than other MMOs, given the prior history of Trion doing hotfixes and patches.
Anyone playing Rift should expect to see these types of changes and tweaks on a regular basis. Its simply not realistic to expect Trion to be able to have any semblence of pvp balance with that many soul combinations available to people.
Personally the soul changes or nerfs if you will is the least of my issues with Rift. Although Im jaded from having played swg pre nge. I have never really liked games that changed mechanics or any class after launch. But then I have only played very few of the mmo's to come out in the last 5 years, and prior to Rift mostly EQ1 and swg. It is therefor not that easy for me to be flexible in the way newer gamers are with changes within the fabric of their chosen mmo.
I suppose thats on me though. Times have changed a lot, time to get with it, however not through Rift in my case.
My major issue with Rift and games like Rift is that the only progression past max lvl is through gear. I need another reason to revisit content. I would like my time played to count for something other than dungeon boss grinding. If my prefered piece of junk didnt drop, then I'd like the hours I spent killing stuff to go towards bettering my character through AA's, and I can't wrap my head around why so few games implements these. More or less voiding their own content as players move on to raiding. It does not make sense to me.
Anyone playing any MMO should expect to see these types of changes and tweaks on a regular basis. Its simply not realistic to expect Trion to be able to have any semblence of pvp balance with that many soul combinations available to people.
Personally the soul changes or nerfs if you will is the least of my issues with Rift. Although Im jaded from having played swg pre nge. I have never really liked games that changed mechanics or any class after launch. But then I have only played very few of the mmo's to come out in the last 5 years, and prior to Rift mostly EQ1 and swg. It is therefor not that easy for me to be flexible in the way newer gamers are with changes within the fabric of their chosen mmo.
Fixed that for you to start with, Scott has already turned around pently of times and said that the Devs are making sure there isn't 'the one perfect build' situation with the souls, as far as Warriors were conserned the flaming spear was turning anyone with that build into a one button killing machine doing TWICE the amount of damage then ranged AND with tank level armour and HP. Bards and Chloros were basically heal stacking in raids and pvp that made Clerics 2nd fliddle in the game and making 10/20 man content laughable, and as far as Sabs were conerned they were being rewarded with 'maximum damage' far too earily in the tree meaning as an 'off soul' it could easily stack onto your 'main soul' like a fully speced tree.
None of the changes 'broke' any archtype it IS a balance and bug issue only - it's better they fixed the builds now then leave it so that everyone rolls 'the flavour of the month' OP archtype so the class balance ends up one sided
I suppose thats on me though. Times have changed a lot, time to get with it, however not through Rift in my case.
My major issue with Rift and games like Rift is that the only progression past max lvl is through gear. I need another reason to revisit content. I would like my time played to count for something other than dungeon boss grinding. If my prefered piece of junk didnt drop, then I'd like the hours I spent killing stuff to go towards bettering my character through AA's, and I can't wrap my head around why so few games implements these. More or less voiding their own content as players move on to raiding. It does not make sense to me.
You say you are an EQ former player and say that? I'm confused seeing as you've kinda stated that the collections, titles, pets, and unique stuff gained from them all collectivly don't count as 'a reason' to 'progress' other then raiding? This is all the same options EQ gave you, 'progression' was always raid content in EQ, everything else was considered 'fluff' other then crafting you could only gear up by doing those or finding rare bosses/collections - exactally like Rift.
Housing didn't come till later on with EQ2 and crafting was just as basic at the start as Rift is now, looking at the interviews Trion have done it's clear that the game as we see it now is the core game, and theres still a lot of types of content they've yet to add but are planning to later on - however unlike most games the core game isn't lacking or have a great big hole were content should be as they've delivered exactally what they intended, now thats out of the way they can easily start to think about expanding it
The entire funny thing about this entire thread was what has happened. I remember back in beta, trion kept saying our builds are fine as they are, and then commented on the fact they didnt see any balancing issues.
Now here we are and they are balancing out big time, we could all see this coming, and its just the start of it. Do you know why. Well it is simple they are listing to all the cry babies on the forums going wha wha to op.
So oh well nice to see trion did not live up to what they said in beta about balancing, and I have to say this folks keep talking about how polished the game is/was just look at your patches and say that again. Polished no.
All I can say is take a look at your devs, they are well known for balancing stuff in the past, heck lets call it like it is, a Nerf.
I hate the word balance it has destroyed so many good games over the years.
Seems rift has settled down into the trend of massive nerfs like other mmo.
This has turned the rift forum into a frenzy with complaints of 2 of the 4 classes been heavily nerfed and one lifted to the new OP status.
Guess rift dev are human and do make errors afterall.Mind you making such nerfs jst before the end of the free month seems like bad buisness planning.
Anyhow i only play rift for 1-2 hrs a day at best so most nerfs do not affect me .Good casual game until i find something better.
It is bad business planning. Although some of the nerfs were welcomed. They should have at least wated until ppl resubbed to start talking about nerfs.
Are Rift fans in outrage, or just you? I'm a PvPer with two 50s, and I'm fine with any attempts at bringing fairness to the game- not that a game where you can have 4 specs needs it. Never have I run into the case where I have class regret- just the case where I go- hmm maybe I should have specced that in after all.
a) MMORPG PvP will never be balanced. If you want 100% balanced PvP: play chess. If you want PvP that is more balanced than MMORPG PvP, play a PvP game that is designed from scratch for PvP, such as LoL or TF2
b) Nerfs are necessary. If all changes would consist of buffs instead, all classes would get constantly stronger, which would force the devs to also make each and every mob and PvE boss stronger, change the equipment etc
Comments
because fixing bugs should be done regardless, not to mention the added content.. if anything doesnt it show that Trion arent concerned about sub numbers? but your right.. its way too soon to see whether the game is doing well retention wise.. the first few months are always volatile.. i expect it to do well.. but i could be wrong.. i have been in the past.. i probably will be again.. but for the moment.. im playing Rift and liking it.. no reason to stop .. yet..
Nothing got nerfed, they got tweaked and BALANCED. The nerf term is overused. Anyone whining needs to learn to adjust and play their char. Using more then 2 buttons takes skill I guess, and my main is a Warrior. Needed tweaks IMO.
Where did Rogues get "major nerfs" besides the Sab? Rogues need a few tweaks but development need to be careful how these are implemented so warriors don't receive the same (if not greater) benefit, such as adding the DPS scale from attack power. If most Rogue classes received a +10% to DPS, they would be golden (perhaps even OP at that point). The other major issue Rogues have is terrible itemization for many "roles" especially tanking.
That's not true at all. They did nerf, and it wasn't just warriors. They gutted many of the souls into being worthless.
If you now try to specialise, you are only gimping one's self. There are now "must have" skills (i.e. strik like iron), which forces certain soul assignments.
Well lets face it changing words do not change the effect.by the way the word nerf started a s a joke some years ago in EQ1 and stuck since kind of like dkp did since most EQ1 inital raids involved dragons.
I disagree, but we ll probably never agree, so I ll just say, they were balanced not nerfed. People need to learn to adjust is all.
Balancing does not force one to change their game play completely. Nerfing does that.
The soul system was flexible, so that even the least efficient builds were still viable. Now that is not the case. Balancing does not cause such a scenario. Again nerfing does.
It's now 4 am PST on the US side the day their subs clocked in
http://uk.riftgame.com/en/status/index.php
A LOT of Medium pops there (it's midday in the UK and it's the same story our end but we still have 4 days left of our 30), it's looking pritty ok seeing as it's offpeak in both regions
It's hardly a 'massive dropoff' that the jaded and doomsayers have been saying, and if it was if rumours are true then Trion could easily roll the servers back into the orginal 33 and still be running on profit (the rumour was that the 'new' servers aren't actally 'new servers' but the orginal servers sharded into multiple ones sharing the same character data to prevent the playerbase 'mobbing' quest areas - neat trick if true)
The Rouge 'rage' on the stealth side was the fact it was broken to begin with as mobs couldn't detect stealth at any level so we could walk around the world at lower levels perfectly ok... As for the changes barely anything has become 'unplayable' as the forums claim - then again the 'forum warriors' have complained it's a 'wow clone' and yet wanted every single thing thats 'missing' in Rift from WoW to be included ( Guild Banks ARE on the way in 1.2 tho - RVR is 'on the way' too. source: the Eurogamer interview this week)
Like I said before Trion are winning favour more becuase they've done and continue to do more 'day 1' then most devs do at this point and shown the playerbase the proper respect by not stringing them along with 'it'll be done soonTM' mericle content patches that deliver very little when they do actally hit once you've given them more money - Rift has 'progressed' in 30 days what normally takes other MMOs 3-4 months to do.
Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!
for those who are level 50 and doing a lot of pvp let me ask this question.
Did trion "tweak" the rogue/warrior from been OP to normal and then create a new beast in pyro mages.i been nuked heavily by this and they seems to do incredible dmg in 30s and so WF after patch.
f so they did a "no no" in terms of balance.
i will disagree with people who say rift will die it will do better no matter what then many mmo out there.But is might have an issue with too many servers .
Saboteur spike damage was nerfed. Right now it's not possible to get one shotted the way pyro mages can do it as we speak. Expect pyros to get the nerf hammer in the same manner warriors got toned down. Saboteurs also need a bigger investment into the tree to reap the same benefits rogues were getting with minimal investment in the soul. I don't consider this a bad move necessarily.
Overall I prdict that rogues will get buffed, the real question is how much.
Bards lost the 10 people healing but gained instead an extra bard slot in every raid. The same thing with chloromancers, who by the way are still the most potent healing soul in the game even after the changes.
I see only two real issues after the patch:
Non saboteur rogues need some damage boost
Pyromages need some damage reduction or the overall mechanic of ground of strenth some changes (like having a damage reduction while using GoS).
EU subs (which includes the UK) don't kick in until the 4th.
Not going to agree at all. Balancing will change your gameplay completely. If all you do is hit 1 or 2 buttons to kill someone, and you re balanced (not nerfed) now you have to actually use skill, it isn t considered a nerf, it s BALANCING it to the other classes, to make it fair. Nerf isn t a word that comes into play , unless they literally get rid of a class completely. It s just an overused word.
What I've seen in the two days after the changes:
Lots of useless warriors being totally useless now.
The great warriors keep on owning like nothing happened
Different mage specs started appearing again, instead of the pyro only pre-patch
Pyros doing way too much spiky damage, their normal damage is counterable from a healer perspective but not the crit stuff.
Lots of different rogue specs appeared besides saboteur only. I am getting ambushed by stealthers now and ranged healing debuffs make my job miserable.
People will need some time to adjust, it's been only two days after all. My guess is that they will tone down the crit damage of pyros considerably while keeping them the biggest nukers in the game. But that's a personal guess and something Trion will work on in a future patch.
The thing is, they're fast at implementing additions and changes. You won't have to wait 4 months for improvements in your class from what I've seen. Worse case scenario it'll take a couple weeks.
Currently Pyro/X/X mages are OP to the extreme, more so than any other build has been. With the right build they can cc and 1 - 2 shot people. As such it doesn't matter what the skill of the opponent is, as they can't react. They also implemented a "magic bullet" mechanism. Not only are they ranged, but they can shoot around corners.
Clerics can now do more damage than Rogues and Warriors, if built efficiently.
PvP in this game sucked big time anyway, so they would have been best just ditching it, instead of destory the PvE game aswell.
I did say that by sating 'our end' considering theres only two regions EU/US
Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!
Yeah, sorry, missed that.
Not really. Most warrior combinations still outperform clerics, just not by a huge amount. Cleric dps didn't change post patch, it's just that warriors moved from 130%-150% everyone else to 110% everyone else with the exception of pyros.
Rogues are at about the same level as clerics with some souls performing even less.
My guess is that clerics are the jack of all trades. They don't excel at nothing but don't have any major weaknesses either. It wouldn't be unlikely if Trion was trying to balance dps in around the same level clerics are right now, or a bit above it.
Yes really! Cleric dps didn't change in the patch. The other classes did. I can't believe you seem fine that rogues are around Cleric dps, and by "around" I mean close but lower.
I'm not fne with it and neither is Trion it seems. The thing is that all dps classes need to be either equal in output or bring something to the table that balances it. This is not a game where cleric = healing and rogue = dps. If both classes have their dps souls applied and are played by equally skilled players, there shouldn't be an artificial difference in dps between them. In my opinion of course. Otherwise why just not scrap the whole soul system and call clerics healers, rogues dps, warriors tank and so on.
What I'm saying is that it'll take a little time for the dust to settle. I'm sure you'll see improvements and adjustments in the rogue trees a lot faster than other MMOs, given the prior history of Trion doing hotfixes and patches.
Anyone playing Rift should expect to see these types of changes and tweaks on a regular basis. Its simply not realistic to expect Trion to be able to have any semblence of pvp balance with that many soul combinations available to people.
Personally the soul changes or nerfs if you will is the least of my issues with Rift. Although Im jaded from having played swg pre nge. I have never really liked games that changed mechanics or any class after launch. But then I have only played very few of the mmo's to come out in the last 5 years, and prior to Rift mostly EQ1 and swg. It is therefor not that easy for me to be flexible in the way newer gamers are with changes within the fabric of their chosen mmo.
I suppose thats on me though. Times have changed a lot, time to get with it, however not through Rift in my case.
My major issue with Rift and games like Rift is that the only progression past max lvl is through gear. I need another reason to revisit content. I would like my time played to count for something other than dungeon boss grinding. If my prefered piece of junk didnt drop, then I'd like the hours I spent killing stuff to go towards bettering my character through AA's, and I can't wrap my head around why so few games implements these. More or less voiding their own content as players move on to raiding. It does not make sense to me.
Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!
The entire funny thing about this entire thread was what has happened. I remember back in beta, trion kept saying our builds are fine as they are, and then commented on the fact they didnt see any balancing issues.
Now here we are and they are balancing out big time, we could all see this coming, and its just the start of it. Do you know why. Well it is simple they are listing to all the cry babies on the forums going wha wha to op.
So oh well nice to see trion did not live up to what they said in beta about balancing, and I have to say this folks keep talking about how polished the game is/was just look at your patches and say that again. Polished no.
All I can say is take a look at your devs, they are well known for balancing stuff in the past, heck lets call it like it is, a Nerf.
I hate the word balance it has destroyed so many good games over the years.
It is bad business planning. Although some of the nerfs were welcomed. They should have at least wated until ppl resubbed to start talking about nerfs.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
a) MMORPG PvP will never be balanced. If you want 100% balanced PvP: play chess. If you want PvP that is more balanced than MMORPG PvP, play a PvP game that is designed from scratch for PvP, such as LoL or TF2
b) Nerfs are necessary. If all changes would consist of buffs instead, all classes would get constantly stronger, which would force the devs to also make each and every mob and PvE boss stronger, change the equipment etc
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)