When comparing the SW universe to RL (which is a bit daft tbh) why do people instantly take the opinion that SWTOR is 1500BC and Darth/Luke era is todays world?
If comparing to RL it could also be that SWTOR is 2011AD and Darth/Luke is 5500AD.
How different will it be?
There would be a noticable difference in techonology after only 100 years let along 3500 on Earth.
The difference between TOR and Episode 1 is miniscule from what we've seen so far.
How different?
Will we still be using computers? hand held devices? TV's? Cookers/Cleaners? Cars? Planes? Personally untill we have robots or we can control things with our minds it's still going to be the same old.
A nuclear war could end it all by then and send us back to day 1.
Everything will be noticably different. Look at just tvs from 10 years ago vs. the ones today for example. Look at computers just in the last 20 years. And many devices that will exist in 20 or 50 years don't even exist today. Example, cell phones are huge these days yet didn't even exist when I was born.
Going into the future 3,500 will be drastically different.
The only real explanation for why there is so little progress between TOR and Episode One is some sort of dark age. There was one in Star Wars lore, but it didn't last long and it was immediatly followed by a golden age.
Again, taking one of your examples, TV's, once they get to, say, a whole wall, ala Total Recall, or go 3D ala... ummm... one of those Tom Cruise movies, where would it go from there?
There's a point to going from the way TV's were 20 years ago to what they are, now. There's a reason for them to get thinner and thinner til they end up maybe being a 1mm film that sticks to a wall, or is just done via holo projection. But there comes a point when a device does everything you need it to in the way that you need it to. At that point, designs will no longer look radically different.
So, what WOULD a tv look like 3500 years from now? I'd say, much different than what it looks like, now, but not much different than it will 500 years from now.
Even if we had a dark age for 100 years, I know we would still be more advanced in 3,500 years than we are now. And it would show. It will look different and life will be different.
That's not the case with TOR and Episode 1.
I'm sorry. I must have missed the "EVERY 3500 YEARS TECHNOLOGY WILL CHANGE SO DRASTICALLY THAT IS SHALL BE COMPLETELY DIFFIRENT AND LIFE WILL BE COMPLETELY DIFFIRENT" written in flaming letters across the sky.
Could you point me to your source for the knowledge that every 3500 years everything will always look diffirent and life will always be diffirent?
If the sun still comes up for 3,500 years we know the Earth will be more advanced, look different and life will be different.
Look different and life being different I can agree, more advanced? Not necesarily. We could nuke the crap out of Earth, I'm sure that would advance us alot. All that's needed actually is a power solar storm hitting then the Earth when it's magnetic field is weak and there go the, i think it was about 50, transformers or generators, can't remeber exactly, that we can only produce about 3 a year (seems these things are damn expensive and hard to produce) and that's while having electricity. Basically say hello to Fallout, they seem so advanced in that game, I agree.
So it would take catastrophic events like, BearManPig, giants squids, King Kong going ape on the world for us not to advance (or go backward).
Between TOR and Epsidoe One there is little advancement. That's the point. And nothing in Star Wars lore from what I've read explains that.
Even if we had a dark age for 100 years, I know we would still be more advanced in 3,500 years than we are now. And it would show. It will look different and life will be different.
That's not the case with TOR and Episode 1.
I'm sorry. I must have missed the "EVERY 3500 YEARS TECHNOLOGY WILL CHANGE SO DRASTICALLY THAT IS SHALL BE COMPLETELY DIFFIRENT AND LIFE WILL BE COMPLETELY DIFFIRENT" written in flaming letters across the sky.
Could you point me to your source for the knowledge that every 3500 years everything will always look diffirent and life will always be diffirent?
If the sun still comes up for 3,500 years we know the Earth will be more advanced, look different and life will be different.
You said yourself, futurists are barely capable of looking 20 years ahead. How can we know what's 3500 years ahead? It will likely be diffirent. But that's no certainty. Anything could happen.
You're confusing probability and certainty. A billion-sided dice with all sides except one having 'A' and one side 'B' will probably roll 'A'. But it's not impossible to roll 'B'.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Even if we had a dark age for 100 years, I know we would still be more advanced in 3,500 years than we are now. And it would show. It will look different and life will be different.
That's not the case with TOR and Episode 1.
I'm sorry. I must have missed the "EVERY 3500 YEARS TECHNOLOGY WILL CHANGE SO DRASTICALLY THAT IS SHALL BE COMPLETELY DIFFIRENT AND LIFE WILL BE COMPLETELY DIFFIRENT" written in flaming letters across the sky.
Could you point me to your source for the knowledge that every 3500 years everything will always look diffirent and life will always be diffirent?
If the sun still comes up for 3,500 years we know the Earth will be more advanced, look different and life will be different.
You said yourself, futurists are barely capable of looking 20 years ahead. How can we know what's 3500 years ahead? It will likely be diffirent. But that's no certainty. Anything could happen.
You're confusing probability and certainty. A billion-sided dice with all sides except one having 'A' and one side 'B' will probably roll 'A'. But it's not impossible to roll 'B'.
Ok for sake of argument we agree something catastrophic happens on Earth and we don't advance.
What in Star Wars lore explains the similair lack of advancement between TOR and Episode One?
This is called Moores Law. Eventually we will attain singularity. This does not see to be the case with the Universe surrounding Star Wars...besides...since when do you have sound in space. Clearly the Star Wars Universe is a totally different reality than our own and the laws of physics are different there as well.
What can we deduce by this? That STAR WARS is sci-fi / fantasy and that is all it was ever meant to be. Nothing more, nothing less. It was a just a good space opera - very pulpy space opera.
Moore's Law doesn't go on forever. Gordon Moore himself states:
"It can't continue forever. The nature of exponentials is that you push them out and eventually disaster happens."
Moore's Law is about transistors. Eventually transistors will hit the limits of miniaturization at atomic levels. We're expected to hit that limit within 20 years or so. At this point Moore's Law stops. That's the limit.
After that we'll have to switch technologies ( qbits and quantum computing most likely. ) Provided of course we have an alternate technology ready. Maybe the Star Wars universe has hit the limits of the Moore's Law for whatever technology they use but they don't have anything else. They've got quantum computing but nobody knows where to go next. It could happen.
Moore's Law applies to many technologies, not just the electronic side of tech. Maybe you should read up more on it, and though Moore himself may have thought that eventually we we hit a wall, others say otherwise because he had no way of knowing that new technological break throughs in science would allow us to push passed his wall in ways he never imagined.
What exactly is so weird about a technological time period lasting for 3500 years?
This fact can easily justify the fact that the game takes place 3500 years before darth vader.
It takes a major discovery for a serious advancement in technology, hence stone-bronze age.. when man discovered metal. in a few thousand years when humanity looks back on us they may call this the electricity age, in this age everything worked on the same principal even if it's over a time span of 2000 or so years.
Tjis could be the same as the starwars universe... o0
Between TOR and Epsidoe One there is little advancement. That's the point. And nothing in Star Wars lore from what I've read explains that.
It's fiction. It shouldn't have to.
Can you prove that technology doesn't plateau at some point?
In Star Wars lore some of the biggest advancements in technology take place after Episode IV. Look at the cloning facilites discovered in Episode II. So technology doesn't plateau in the Star Wars Universe.
This is called Moores Law. Eventually we will attain singularity. This does not see to be the case with the Universe surrounding Star Wars...besides...since when do you have sound in space. Clearly the Star Wars Universe is a totally different reality than our own and the laws of physics are different there as well.
What can we deduce by this? That STAR WARS is sci-fi / fantasy and that is all it was ever meant to be. Nothing more, nothing less. It was a just a good space opera - very pulpy space opera.
Moore's Law doesn't go on forever. Gordon Moore himself states:
"It can't continue forever. The nature of exponentials is that you push them out and eventually disaster happens."
Moore's Law is about transistors. Eventually transistors will hit the limits of miniaturization at atomic levels. We're expected to hit that limit within 20 years or so. At this point Moore's Law stops. That's the limit.
After that we'll have to switch technologies ( qbits and quantum computing most likely. ) Provided of course we have an alternate technology ready. Maybe the Star Wars universe has hit the limits of the Moore's Law for whatever technology they use but they don't have anything else. They've got quantum computing but nobody knows where to go next. It could happen.
Moore's Law applies to many technologies, not just the electronic side of tech. Maybe you should read up more on it, and though Moore himself may have thought that eventually we we hit a wall, others say otherwise because he had no way of knowing that new technological break throughs in science would allow us to push pass his wall in ways he never imagined.
So, then, you believe there is no ceiling? That technology will keep progressing on and on and on in every way, never hitting a boundary of... y'know, like matter, or physical complications of any kind?
Because to me, it sounds pretty daft to believe anything continues to grow in an unlimited manner, and even less likely that there won't be substantial gaps in the time difference between technological breakthroughs, however far into the future we may be.
Moore's Law applies to many technologies, not just the electronic side of tech. Maybe you should read up more on it, and though Moore himself may have thought that eventually we we hit a wall, others say otherwise because he had no way of knowing that new technological break throughs in science would allow us to push pass his wall in ways he never imagined.
Exactly, we have no way of knowing what technological breakthroughs will bring. They could bring things we never imagined.
They could bring technological stagnation for 3500 years. Not likely. Still possible.
If Moore's Original Law could be broken then what's to say that this new Moore's Law cannot also be broken?
You're talking about certainty where there is none. We don't know what will happen in 3500 years. Yet you cling to things like Moore's Law that have applied for at most 25 years as if they're absolute undeniable truth.
Moore's Law is a prediction that so far has proven true. If I predict the sun will always rise then that's been proved true for over 4 billion years. Yet eventually, billions of years from now, the sun will cease to rise. There's no certainty. Anything could happen. Things could even stay the same.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
This is called Moores Law. Eventually we will attain singularity. This does not see to be the case with the Universe surrounding Star Wars...besides...since when do you have sound in space. Clearly the Star Wars Universe is a totally different reality than our own and the laws of physics are different there as well.
What can we deduce by this? That STAR WARS is sci-fi / fantasy and that is all it was ever meant to be. Nothing more, nothing less. It was a just a good space opera - very pulpy space opera.
Moore's Law doesn't go on forever. Gordon Moore himself states:
"It can't continue forever. The nature of exponentials is that you push them out and eventually disaster happens."
Moore's Law is about transistors. Eventually transistors will hit the limits of miniaturization at atomic levels. We're expected to hit that limit within 20 years or so. At this point Moore's Law stops. That's the limit.
After that we'll have to switch technologies ( qbits and quantum computing most likely. ) Provided of course we have an alternate technology ready. Maybe the Star Wars universe has hit the limits of the Moore's Law for whatever technology they use but they don't have anything else. They've got quantum computing but nobody knows where to go next. It could happen.
Moore's Law applies to many technologies, not just the electronic side of tech. Maybe you should read up more on it, and though Moore himself may have thought that eventually we we hit a wall, others say otherwise because he had no way of knowing that new technological break throughs in science would allow us to push passed his wall in ways he never imagined.
Moores Law is not a "law of science" its a benchmark that chip makers try to adhere to, its a driving force of progress but Moore and others have stated it has its limits. It was initially expected to cap out at 2012 by some but most agree 2020 is as far as it will be able to go.
This is called Moores Law. Eventually we will attain singularity. This does not see to be the case with the Universe surrounding Star Wars...besides...since when do you have sound in space. Clearly the Star Wars Universe is a totally different reality than our own and the laws of physics are different there as well.
What can we deduce by this? That STAR WARS is sci-fi / fantasy and that is all it was ever meant to be. Nothing more, nothing less. It was a just a good space opera - very pulpy space opera.
Moore's Law doesn't go on forever. Gordon Moore himself states:
"It can't continue forever. The nature of exponentials is that you push them out and eventually disaster happens."
Moore's Law is about transistors. Eventually transistors will hit the limits of miniaturization at atomic levels. We're expected to hit that limit within 20 years or so. At this point Moore's Law stops. That's the limit.
After that we'll have to switch technologies ( qbits and quantum computing most likely. ) Provided of course we have an alternate technology ready. Maybe the Star Wars universe has hit the limits of the Moore's Law for whatever technology they use but they don't have anything else. They've got quantum computing but nobody knows where to go next. It could happen.
Moore's Law applies to many technologies, not just the electronic side of tech. Maybe you should read up more on it, and though Moore himself may have thought that eventually we we hit a wall, others say otherwise because he had no way of knowing that new technological break throughs in science would allow us to push pass his wall in ways he never imagined.
So, then, you believe there is no ceiling? That technology will keep progressing on and on and on in every way, never hitting a boundary of... y'know, like matter, or physical complications of any kind?
Because to me, it sounds pretty daft to believe anything continues to grow in an unlimited manner, and even less likely that there won't be substantial gaps in the time difference between technological breakthroughs, however far into the future we may be.
Once we hit singularity all bets are off as to what might occur. Who knows...maybe V-ger will become a God. That sorta thing..you know. LOL!
Just to put it into scope. This is a little timeline you might find useful. Look at where life first appeared on planet earth. Than look how exponetially, through learning, we advanced.
Many scientist say we are quickly approaching a point called "Singularity" where we'll learn so fast and advance so fast - we essentially become immortal - and Gods. Just saying.
This is called Moores Law. Eventually we will attain singularity. This does not see to be the case with the Universe surrounding Star Wars...besides...since when do you have sound in space. Clearly the Star Wars Universe is a totally different reality than our own and the laws of physics are different there as well.
What can we deduce by this? That STAR WARS is sci-fi / fantasy and that is all it was ever meant to be. Nothing more, nothing less. It was a just a good space opera - very pulpy space opera.
Moore's Law doesn't go on forever. Gordon Moore himself states:
"It can't continue forever. The nature of exponentials is that you push them out and eventually disaster happens."
Moore's Law is about transistors. Eventually transistors will hit the limits of miniaturization at atomic levels. We're expected to hit that limit within 20 years or so. At this point Moore's Law stops. That's the limit.
After that we'll have to switch technologies ( qbits and quantum computing most likely. ) Provided of course we have an alternate technology ready. Maybe the Star Wars universe has hit the limits of the Moore's Law for whatever technology they use but they don't have anything else. They've got quantum computing but nobody knows where to go next. It could happen.
Moore's Law applies to many technologies, not just the electronic side of tech. Maybe you should read up more on it, and though Moore himself may have thought that eventually we we hit a wall, others say otherwise because he had no way of knowing that new technological break throughs in science would allow us to push pass his wall in ways he never imagined.
So, then, you believe there is no ceiling? That technology will keep progressing on and on and on in every way, never hitting a boundary of... y'know, like matter, or physical complications of any kind?
Because to me, it sounds pretty daft to believe anything continues to grow in an unlimited manner, and even less likely that there won't be substantial gaps in the time difference between technological breakthroughs, however far into the future we may be.
Once we hit singularity all bets are off as to what might occur. Who knows...maybe V-ger will become a God. That sorta thing..you know. LOL!
Just to put it into scope. This is a little timeline you might find useful. Look at where life first appeared on planet earth. Than look how exponetially, through learning, we advanced.
Many scientist say we are quickly approaching a point called "Singularity" where we'll learn so fast and advance so fast - we essentially become immortal - and Gods. Just saying.
EVEN if that were to happen, for the sake of argument here, and you and I are immortal, and we're on our little space ships out in some unknown galaxy 8K years in the future from today............ you don't think there will ever be a time, 2.3 million years in the future from that point, that we won't get to a plateau.. even for a small stint of 3500 years (in the scope of millions - to - billions of years of evolution and technology) where technological advancement may be at a standstill, or at least not commonplace.
I mean, toss it up to just now knowing, but the logical part of my brain, (however small it might be) keeps telling me that the only thing that IS infinite is time, (barring that space has an invisible force field at the edge... ... MMOs are SO true to life) and it won't wait for technological breakthroughs before it continues.
Between TOR and Epsidoe One there is little advancement. That's the point. And nothing in Star Wars lore from what I've read explains that.
It's fiction. It shouldn't have to.
Can you prove that technology doesn't plateau at some point?
In Star Wars lore some of the biggest advancements in technology take place after Episode IV. Look at the cloning facilites discovered in Episode II. So technology doesn't plateau in the Star Wars Universe.
Which only strengthens the OPs point.
Cloning wasn't just "discovered" in episode 2; it had been around before that. What was discovered was that supposedly a long dead jedi had ordered the clones from the facility. It was implied that cloning had been around for some time, and that the Kamino'ans were particularly skilled at it.
Between TOR and Epsidoe One there is little advancement. That's the point. And nothing in Star Wars lore from what I've read explains that.
It's fiction. It shouldn't have to.
Can you prove that technology doesn't plateau at some point?
In Star Wars lore some of the biggest advancements in technology take place after Episode IV. Look at the cloning facilites discovered in Episode II. So technology doesn't plateau in the Star Wars Universe.
Which only strengthens the OPs point.
Cloning wasn't just "discovered" in episode 2; it had been around before that. What was discovered was that supposedly a long dead jedi had ordered the clones from the facility. It was implied that cloning had been around for some time, and that the Kamino'ans were particularly skilled at it.
The greater point is techonology in the Star Wars universe isn't stagnant. And yet it appears to be for 3,500 years between TOR and Episode One.
We're talking about a fictional universe where people use laser swords and magical powers but OH MY GOD the technolgical stagnancy doesn't makes sense!!
Between TOR and Epsidoe One there is little advancement. That's the point. And nothing in Star Wars lore from what I've read explains that.
It's fiction. It shouldn't have to.
Can you prove that technology doesn't plateau at some point?
In Star Wars lore some of the biggest advancements in technology take place after Episode IV. Look at the cloning facilites discovered in Episode II. So technology doesn't plateau in the Star Wars Universe.
Which only strengthens the OPs point.
Cloning wasn't just "discovered" in episode 2; it had been around before that. What was discovered was that supposedly a long dead jedi had ordered the clones from the facility. It was implied that cloning had been around for some time, and that the Kamino'ans were particularly skilled at it.
The greater point is techonology in the Star Wars universe isn't stagnant. And yet it appears to be for 3,500 years between TOR and Episode One.
the operative words: "appears to be". I have yet for anyone to take my challenge. What would technological advancement LOOK like, starting during KotR and moving forward 3500 years?
Edit: you can't really SAY it's always been stagnant those 3500 years. Because you can't know what advancement would LOOK like.
Many scientist say we are quickly approaching a point called "Singularity" where we'll learn so fast and advance so fast - we essentially become immortal - and Gods. Just saying.
Sciencefiction writers maybe, not that many scientists. But it's nice to daydream, of course.
Regarding Moore's Law, in information technology circles it has been a common knowledge that for years now we've been leveling out because of slowly reaching physical barriers. Only when new breakthroughs in processing technology happen can be switched to a fasttrack again.
Another example that technology can hit a barrier is for example space travel: a lot of people from the beginning of the former century and for decades afterwards, people thought that we'd be able to fly across our whole solar system and maybe even beyond, the speed with which technology seemed to be evolving. When people were launched in space and landed on the moon, this seemed to confirm those thoughts. However, in the decades afterwards not that much has changed regarding space traveling: no people have landed on Mars or circled Venus yet or traveled further in our solar system, for the simple reason that it's a costly endeavour and that space travel offers hazards and dangers to human life that science hasn't really been able to provide adequate solutions for.
Looking at the technological progress regarding space travel, one could say that it has almost leveled out or changed into a snail speed for the last 3, 4 decades.
Anyway, this is all offtrack of course, and serves only to provide explanations that serve the internal logic of Star Wars' universe and players' sense of immersion and suspension of disbelief.
The real reason is that writers throughout the decades just wanted to stay close to the basic premise of Star Wars, nothing more to it.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
So does any one actually think that we wont suffer from stagnation due to the fact that the majority of scientific and technological breakthroughs are locked up and hidden away by the worlds governments?
Once we hit singularity all bets are off as to what might occur. Who knows...maybe V-ger will become a God. That sorta thing..you know. LOL!
Just to put it into scope. This is a little timeline you might find useful. Look at where life first appeared on planet earth. Than look how exponetially, through learning, we advanced.
Many scientist say we are quickly approaching a point called "Singularity" where we'll learn so fast and advance so fast - we essentially become immortal - and Gods. Just saying.
Going by that chart we can say that more or less the time between events halves everytime. It's not entirely accurate but it actually doesn't matter with how much it decreases.
Next event will be at 7 years. Next one at 3 years. Then 2 years. Then 1 year. Then half a year. Then 3 months. Then 2 months. Then 1 month. Then 15 days. Then 7 days. Then 3 days. Then 2 days. Then 1 day. Then 12 hours. Then 6 hours. Then 3 hours. Then 2 hours. Then 1 hour. Then 30 minutes. Then 15 minutes. Then 8 minutes. Then 4 minutes. Then 2 minutes. Then 1 minute. Then 30 seconds. Then 15 seconds. Then 8 seconds. Then 4 seconds. Then 2 seconds. Then 1 second etc.
In total it will approach a limit in about 15 years, going by that chart. Because by that time we'll be advancing so fast that we'll never reach that 15 years. Because each next advancement will be so much shorter then the previous one that, even with infinite advancements, there aren't enough advancements to reach that 15 years.
Even if it's not half but only 99% then we'll still eventually hit such a limit where advancements are coming so fast that we'll not be able to hit the next year with infinite advancements.
Surely you can see the impossibility of keeping up exponential advancement. As Moore says: Eventually disaster happens.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Regardless of historical and realistic accuracy, right at the beginning of the movies you will see "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away." This statement alone allows for a certain amount of leniency. In theory, there are galaxies in the universe which follow different physics. Maybe time passes more quickly in the Star Wars universe..
One thing to remember when immersing yourself in fiction, is that it's fiction... Otherwise every fictional story ever told would be disregarded as inaccurate garbage, and you wouldn't be able to enjoy the story.
Being concerned with the historical accuracy of a fictional story, well that's just silly...
Even if we had a dark age for 100 years, I know we would still be more advanced in 3,500 years than we are now. And it would show. It will look different and life will be different.
That's not the case with TOR and Episode 1.
I'm sorry. I must have missed the "EVERY 3500 YEARS TECHNOLOGY WILL CHANGE SO DRASTICALLY THAT IS SHALL BE COMPLETELY DIFFIRENT AND LIFE WILL BE COMPLETELY DIFFIRENT" written in flaming letters across the sky.
Could you point me to your source for the knowledge that every 3500 years everything will always look diffirent and life will always be diffirent?
Probably not worth much but as a former game designer (retired) I attended many conventions, including those with authors of books. One of the factors in the 'meet the author' sessions was a common thread among some of the audience (like a forum?). This was, 'why isn't this or that more realistic?". It should be 'that or this way instead'. Most authors who wrote the books were polite and diplomatic. One I remember got annoyed and told his questioner (r u listening OP?) he was sorry he didn't get it right and that if the questioner had been there to supervise his writing then he was sure it would have been a better book.
He went on to say that creation of a "magic" system, or psuedo-science or Fictional history was not a matter of realism but imagination. Imagination and it's product are the proprietary rights of the author. The reader has an absolute right to disagree and can deny his support or money to the work if he wants. However there is no reason to attempt to 'revise' something that the creator of the work has done simply to satisfy a few peoples' complaints.
There are perfectly valid reasons that there is a similarity between SW movies and SWtOR material. If there wasn't, then it would not generate the type of interest needed to make a profit and continue in business. No profit no game - that simple. A time line of development of a FICTIONAL history is whatever the author wants it to be. This real universe may not be what I think of as 'rational' or what I think it ought to be but I believe I will not attack the Creator on his imaginative creation that includes me being here. I actually hope to remain here regardless and as long as possible.
Comments
Again, taking one of your examples, TV's, once they get to, say, a whole wall, ala Total Recall, or go 3D ala... ummm... one of those Tom Cruise movies, where would it go from there?
There's a point to going from the way TV's were 20 years ago to what they are, now. There's a reason for them to get thinner and thinner til they end up maybe being a 1mm film that sticks to a wall, or is just done via holo projection. But there comes a point when a device does everything you need it to in the way that you need it to. At that point, designs will no longer look radically different.
So, what WOULD a tv look like 3500 years from now? I'd say, much different than what it looks like, now, but not much different than it will 500 years from now.
So it would take catastrophic events like, BearManPig, giants squids, King Kong going ape on the world for us not to advance (or go backward).
Between TOR and Epsidoe One there is little advancement. That's the point. And nothing in Star Wars lore from what I've read explains that.
You said yourself, futurists are barely capable of looking 20 years ahead. How can we know what's 3500 years ahead? It will likely be diffirent. But that's no certainty. Anything could happen.
You're confusing probability and certainty. A billion-sided dice with all sides except one having 'A' and one side 'B' will probably roll 'A'. But it's not impossible to roll 'B'.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
It's fiction. It shouldn't have to.
Can you prove that technology doesn't plateau at some point?
"If you're going to act like a noob, I'll treat you like one." -Caskio
Adventurers wear fancy pants!!!
Ok for sake of argument we agree something catastrophic happens on Earth and we don't advance.
What in Star Wars lore explains the similair lack of advancement between TOR and Episode One?
Moore's Law applies to many technologies, not just the electronic side of tech. Maybe you should read up more on it, and though Moore himself may have thought that eventually we we hit a wall, others say otherwise because he had no way of knowing that new technological break throughs in science would allow us to push passed his wall in ways he never imagined.
This fact can easily justify the fact that the game takes place 3500 years before darth vader.
It takes a major discovery for a serious advancement in technology, hence stone-bronze age.. when man discovered metal. in a few thousand years when humanity looks back on us they may call this the electricity age, in this age everything worked on the same principal even if it's over a time span of 2000 or so years.
Tjis could be the same as the starwars universe... o0
In Star Wars lore some of the biggest advancements in technology take place after Episode IV. Look at the cloning facilites discovered in Episode II. So technology doesn't plateau in the Star Wars Universe.
Which only strengthens the OPs point.
So, then, you believe there is no ceiling? That technology will keep progressing on and on and on in every way, never hitting a boundary of... y'know, like matter, or physical complications of any kind?
Because to me, it sounds pretty daft to believe anything continues to grow in an unlimited manner, and even less likely that there won't be substantial gaps in the time difference between technological breakthroughs, however far into the future we may be.
Exactly, we have no way of knowing what technological breakthroughs will bring. They could bring things we never imagined.
They could bring technological stagnation for 3500 years. Not likely. Still possible.
If Moore's Original Law could be broken then what's to say that this new Moore's Law cannot also be broken?
You're talking about certainty where there is none. We don't know what will happen in 3500 years. Yet you cling to things like Moore's Law that have applied for at most 25 years as if they're absolute undeniable truth.
Moore's Law is a prediction that so far has proven true. If I predict the sun will always rise then that's been proved true for over 4 billion years. Yet eventually, billions of years from now, the sun will cease to rise. There's no certainty. Anything could happen. Things could even stay the same.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
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Moores Law is not a "law of science" its a benchmark that chip makers try to adhere to, its a driving force of progress but Moore and others have stated it has its limits. It was initially expected to cap out at 2012 by some but most agree 2020 is as far as it will be able to go.
Once we hit singularity all bets are off as to what might occur. Who knows...maybe V-ger will become a God. That sorta thing..you know. LOL!
Just to put it into scope. This is a little timeline you might find useful. Look at where life first appeared on planet earth. Than look how exponetially, through learning, we advanced.
Many scientist say we are quickly approaching a point called "Singularity" where we'll learn so fast and advance so fast - we essentially become immortal - and Gods. Just saying.
EVEN if that were to happen, for the sake of argument here, and you and I are immortal, and we're on our little space ships out in some unknown galaxy 8K years in the future from today............ you don't think there will ever be a time, 2.3 million years in the future from that point, that we won't get to a plateau.. even for a small stint of 3500 years (in the scope of millions - to - billions of years of evolution and technology) where technological advancement may be at a standstill, or at least not commonplace.
I mean, toss it up to just now knowing, but the logical part of my brain, (however small it might be) keeps telling me that the only thing that IS infinite is time, (barring that space has an invisible force field at the edge... ... MMOs are SO true to life) and it won't wait for technological breakthroughs before it continues.
Cloning wasn't just "discovered" in episode 2; it had been around before that. What was discovered was that supposedly a long dead jedi had ordered the clones from the facility. It was implied that cloning had been around for some time, and that the Kamino'ans were particularly skilled at it.
The greater point is techonology in the Star Wars universe isn't stagnant. And yet it appears to be for 3,500 years between TOR and Episode One.
We're talking about a fictional universe where people use laser swords and magical powers but OH MY GOD the technolgical stagnancy doesn't makes sense!!
the operative words: "appears to be". I have yet for anyone to take my challenge. What would technological advancement LOOK like, starting during KotR and moving forward 3500 years?
Edit: you can't really SAY it's always been stagnant those 3500 years. Because you can't know what advancement would LOOK like.
Sciencefiction writers maybe, not that many scientists. But it's nice to daydream, of course.
Regarding Moore's Law, in information technology circles it has been a common knowledge that for years now we've been leveling out because of slowly reaching physical barriers. Only when new breakthroughs in processing technology happen can be switched to a fasttrack again.
Another example that technology can hit a barrier is for example space travel: a lot of people from the beginning of the former century and for decades afterwards, people thought that we'd be able to fly across our whole solar system and maybe even beyond, the speed with which technology seemed to be evolving. When people were launched in space and landed on the moon, this seemed to confirm those thoughts. However, in the decades afterwards not that much has changed regarding space traveling: no people have landed on Mars or circled Venus yet or traveled further in our solar system, for the simple reason that it's a costly endeavour and that space travel offers hazards and dangers to human life that science hasn't really been able to provide adequate solutions for.
Looking at the technological progress regarding space travel, one could say that it has almost leveled out or changed into a snail speed for the last 3, 4 decades.
Anyway, this is all offtrack of course, and serves only to provide explanations that serve the internal logic of Star Wars' universe and players' sense of immersion and suspension of disbelief.
The real reason is that writers throughout the decades just wanted to stay close to the basic premise of Star Wars, nothing more to it.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
So does any one actually think that we wont suffer from stagnation due to the fact that the majority of scientific and technological breakthroughs are locked up and hidden away by the worlds governments?
My theme song.
Going by that chart we can say that more or less the time between events halves everytime. It's not entirely accurate but it actually doesn't matter with how much it decreases.
Next event will be at 7 years. Next one at 3 years. Then 2 years. Then 1 year. Then half a year. Then 3 months. Then 2 months. Then 1 month. Then 15 days. Then 7 days. Then 3 days. Then 2 days. Then 1 day. Then 12 hours. Then 6 hours. Then 3 hours. Then 2 hours. Then 1 hour. Then 30 minutes. Then 15 minutes. Then 8 minutes. Then 4 minutes. Then 2 minutes. Then 1 minute. Then 30 seconds. Then 15 seconds. Then 8 seconds. Then 4 seconds. Then 2 seconds. Then 1 second etc.
In total it will approach a limit in about 15 years, going by that chart. Because by that time we'll be advancing so fast that we'll never reach that 15 years. Because each next advancement will be so much shorter then the previous one that, even with infinite advancements, there aren't enough advancements to reach that 15 years.
Even if it's not half but only 99% then we'll still eventually hit such a limit where advancements are coming so fast that we'll not be able to hit the next year with infinite advancements.
Surely you can see the impossibility of keeping up exponential advancement. As Moore says: Eventually disaster happens.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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Regardless of historical and realistic accuracy, right at the beginning of the movies you will see "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away." This statement alone allows for a certain amount of leniency. In theory, there are galaxies in the universe which follow different physics. Maybe time passes more quickly in the Star Wars universe..
One thing to remember when immersing yourself in fiction, is that it's fiction... Otherwise every fictional story ever told would be disregarded as inaccurate garbage, and you wouldn't be able to enjoy the story.
Being concerned with the historical accuracy of a fictional story, well that's just silly...
Probably not worth much but as a former game designer (retired) I attended many conventions, including those with authors of books. One of the factors in the 'meet the author' sessions was a common thread among some of the audience (like a forum?). This was, 'why isn't this or that more realistic?". It should be 'that or this way instead'. Most authors who wrote the books were polite and diplomatic. One I remember got annoyed and told his questioner (r u listening OP?) he was sorry he didn't get it right and that if the questioner had been there to supervise his writing then he was sure it would have been a better book.
He went on to say that creation of a "magic" system, or psuedo-science or Fictional history was not a matter of realism but imagination. Imagination and it's product are the proprietary rights of the author. The reader has an absolute right to disagree and can deny his support or money to the work if he wants. However there is no reason to attempt to 'revise' something that the creator of the work has done simply to satisfy a few peoples' complaints.
There are perfectly valid reasons that there is a similarity between SW movies and SWtOR material. If there wasn't, then it would not generate the type of interest needed to make a profit and continue in business. No profit no game - that simple. A time line of development of a FICTIONAL history is whatever the author wants it to be. This real universe may not be what I think of as 'rational' or what I think it ought to be but I believe I will not attack the Creator on his imaginative creation that includes me being here. I actually hope to remain here regardless and as long as possible.
God's even making the same spelling errors as me
. Great minds do think alike!
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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Latest news on the future of computing.
Researchers create super-small transistor, artificial atom powered by single electrons <<< clicky
Cool huh? This type of tech will take computers to a level we only dreamed of.