So you have seen everything before? Lightsabers in every other game
Single handed weapon the replicates the combat of a bladed weapon. Example; Sword. Yes.
full voice over in every other game?
Elder Scrolls Series. Just to name one.
Science fiction/fantasy in every other game?
Endless Ages, Tabula Rasa, Neocron, Matrix Online, Project Entropia, etc, etc, etc.
If that's yoru criteria for judging a game's originality, I'd like you to point out a truly original game that has come out in the last decade. By your standard, ALL games are derivative, particularly if you are going to compare an mmorpg like SWTOR with a single player rpg like the Elder Scroll games.
At this point yes, all games are pretty much carbon copies of each other.
And you'll have to trust me on this: Bladed weapon combat is NOT the same as light saber combat if you are an actual Star Wars fan. It feels fundamentally different, believe it or not.
Are you suggesting you own and operate a "light saber"? Take your meds kiddo.
And the mmos you named that are science fiction ones are crap MMOs. Try to at least pick something that had some success.
Oh look, an opinion that fails to remove the validity of my original point.
So you have seen everything before? Lightsabers in every other game
Single handed weapon the replicates the combat of a bladed weapon. Example; Sword. Yes.
full voice over in every other game?
Elder Scrolls Series. Just to name one.
Science fiction/fantasy in every other game?
Endless Ages, Tabula Rasa, Neocron, Matrix Online, Project Entropia, etc, etc, etc.
If that's yoru criteria for judging a game's originality, I'd like you to point out a truly original game that has come out in the last decade. By your standard, ALL games are derivative, particularly if you are going to compare an mmorpg like SWTOR with a single player rpg like the Elder Scroll games.
At this point yes, all games are pretty much carbon copies of each other.
And you'll have to trust me on this: Bladed weapon combat is NOT the same as light saber combat if you are an actual Star Wars fan. It feels fundamentally different, believe it or not.
Are you suggesting you own and operate a "light saber"? Take your meds kiddo.
And the mmos you named that are science fiction ones are crap MMOs. Try to at least pick something that had some success.
Oh look, an opinion that fails to remove the validity of my original point.
The problem with your response to me is that you failed to answer my questions correctly. I said "every other game", but you only pointed out a few.
To address your points:
1. All games are not carbon copies of each other. Quite obvious to everyone who plays different genres of games.
2. Elder scrolls is not an MMORPG, nor is it every other game.
3. Naming a few science fiction games ( which I am already aware of) is not every other game.
I also have the advantage of having played both WAR and TOR. I'll just say you're wrong, and leave it at that. The WAR comparison is ridiculous because you are comparing the game SOLELY on preorder hype, as if that's a bad thing. You claim to have played the TOR beta, but I have to question what you were seeing if you think these games were anything alike in terms of how they played. That just boggles my mind.
Look, you may not like the game for whatever reason. But to imply that it's going to go the way of WAR smacks of a serious agenda on your part, and is completely unrealistic. Anyone with even an ounce of objectivity, including the seething-mad TOR haters, would never be able to make a coherant argument that there is even an ounce of similarity between TOR and WAR, aside from pre-order hype.
I forget the name of the argument tactic.
X was hyped. X failed. Therefore, since Y was also hyped, it will also fail.
I beta'd WAR, and I recall my conclusion to be that it's comparable to Vanilla WoW with some additional features that were somewhat amusing. I admit that I did think it would do better than it did, but it was certainly not gonna be a WoWkiller. Matter of fact, I remember a forum post on another site that said: "If you think this game(WAR) is gonna have anything less than 3 million subs, you're smoking some serious WoW crack." I've kept it in my head ever since, knowing the dude was definitely gonna eat those words.
I also doubt TOR will be a WOWkiller. But I DO think it will do what WoW did: bring in a pretty big crowd of people that have never played MMO's, and never before considered playing them. KotOR and Star Wars fans, alike. People like my brother, who loved the KotOR games, but read about SWG and passed because it looked dull to him. I think TOR's single player game quality content will keep those players for at least as long as it takes to complete it.
Initial numbers will be big. With the preorder numbers being where they are, that's pretty much a fact. Whether it will keep those people and grow like WoW did, we can only speculate. But the sheer amount of content available to the player, and the fact that it not only has everything every other MMO of its kind has, and often does it far BETTER(exception: wardrobe/clothing), is something that could not be said of WAR.
I also have the advantage of having played both WAR and TOR.
I too have played both.
I'll just say you're wrong, and leave it at that.
Really? Wow what an open mind you have.
The WAR comparison is ridiculous because you are comparing the game SOLELY on preorder hype, as if that's a bad thing.
Umm..no not at all. They have many things in common. Hype being just one of them.
You claim to have played the TOR beta, but I have to question what you were seeing if you think these games were anything alike in terms of how they played. That just boggles my mind.
Never said they were alike in terms of how they played. Simply stated the similarities were there and to make a comparison was not unreasonable.
Look, you may not like the game for whatever reason. But to imply that it's going to go the way of WAR smacks of a serious agenda on your part, and is completely unrealistic.
Please show me where I implied that. There is no agenda other than the one that you have to hype this game. I just simply do not agree with you that it is going to be this gaming nirvana that you seem to think it is. That is all. I have no hatred for the game. Having played TOR it is pretty obvious what BW was trying to achieve. I think they achieved that goal. The question is when the hype wears off how many will be left?
Anyone with even an ounce of objectivity, including the seething-mad TOR haters, would never be able to make a coherant argument that there is even an ounce of similarity between TOR and WAR, aside from pre-order hype.
and the other things I listed. Warhammer was not as well known of an IP as Star Wars is. That doesnt mean it did not generate interest. It did. A lot of interest. Much like TOR has done.
Mythic was bought by EA (much like BW ) in 2006. WAR launched in 2008. So both games were hyped and launched by EA.
There are more comparisons that could be made as well.
I said it before but I bet I could go back on these forums and find the same hyped up posts about WAR. The "seething-mad haters" as you call them are no worse than the blindly devoted fans that never want to hear one negative thing or anything that may differ from their point of view. On these forums the whole point is discussion. You do not want to have one as you stated above with the "I'll just say you're wrong, and leave it at that." line.
I don't have a horse in this race. After having played TOR I know I will not buy it. I'm not trying to get anyone else to not buy it. I hope a lot of people do. The genre growing is not a bad thing. Competition should bring out the best in development teams and we should get even more quality games. I just simply do not agree that this game has much long term appeal. I could be wrong but so could you. I am willing to admit that.. you are not.
X was hyped. X failed. Therefore, since Y was also hyped, it will also fail.
There's actually several terms that apply (depending on how the rest of the argument proceeds). They're all False Cause fallacies. Most likely cum hoc ergo propter hoc, or just a variant of Slippery Slope.
The basic gist is that crystal balls are hazy and difficult to use. Predictive argument is tricky as hell.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
X was hyped. X failed. Therefore, since Y was also hyped, it will also fail.
I beta'd WAR, and I recall my conclusion to be that it's comparable to Vanilla WoW with some additional features that were somewhat amusing. I admit that I did think it would do better than it did, but it was certainly not gonna be a WoWkiller. Matter of fact, I remember a forum post on another site that said: "If you think this game(WAR) is gonna have anything less than 3 million subs, you're smoking some serious WoW crack." I've kept it in my head ever since, knowing the dude was definitely gonna eat those words.
I also doubt TOR will be a WOWkiller. But I DO think it will do what WoW did: bring in a pretty big crowd of people that have never played MMO's, and never before considered playing them. KotOR and Star Wars fans, alike. People like my brother, who loved the KotOR games, but read about SWG and passed because it looked dull to him. I think TOR's single player game quality content will keep those players for at least as long as it takes to complete it.
Initial numbers will be big. With the preorder numbers being where they are, that's pretty much a fact. Whether it will keep those people and grow like WoW did, we can only speculate. But the sheer amount of content available to the player, and the fact that it not only has everything every other MMO of its kind has, and often does it far BETTER(exception: wardrobe/clothing), is something that could not be said of WAR.
I've seen many video's of this game.. but don't see any new things in it..
Why are people so excited of this game? to me its just an tab target quest from a to b game?
I predict this game will end up the same as rift..
Ya know, I don't know why you're even worried about it. Will it really make any difference to you if it succeeds without you? Seriously, if you don't see any appeal then it shouldn't right? Or are you such a Lemming that you can bear the idea of not running "off the cliff" with everyone else?
Maybe its that you feel like you have to have something new and "revolutionary", and this isn't it. Which I might suggest is an example of Unrealistic Expectations. If you buy this game then you're a fool, because you've already set yourself up for a huge disappointment. And its NOT going to be BioWare's fault. It's all going to be on you. Though it will be typical for you to complain anyway. Just because you have inflated estimation of the value of your own opinions.
Honestly, the rest of us aren't really going to care. We're going to be having too much fun playing...
Hey, i say let this be a challenge to all the doubters and full throttle haters, who haven't played the game and continue with the bull crude post's. You now have a free access to play the game via this site and others for the next beta test coming up. I say put up or shut and get yourself a key and play the damn game for yourself. The game will never be everything for everybody, but the game is rock solid and for millions i would assume, will be just right on many levels.
With any MMOs, the game will only go as far as the player base will allow it to.
Using myself, and admittedly anecdotal evidence, as an example. I have been playing LOTRO since it launched. Was a fairly well designed game, which has been getting worse and worse with each patch, but I stick around because of the peopel I've met. Conversly, I dabbled in Rift, found it to be a fantastic game, mechanics, difficulty, etc... were all where I wanted them to be, the problem was that I kept meeting and getting lumped with some real jerks in the dungeon finder (which I was forced to use since I was feeling out trying to find a guild), it just became too much to take with what limited play time I have.
So I went back to LOTRO. Really hoping to find a game to pull me away for good, and have great people. With the Star Wars IP, It hink the caliber of people will be a good mix of good and bad, with more leaning on the good.
Originally posted by Snoepie Why are people so excited of this game? to me its just an tab target quest from a to b game?
Because it is innovative in many ways, the most important to me is it brings back the "RPG" in MMORPG games.
btw, how do you propose targeting? Point and click? rotflmao
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
fps style shooter, direct evasion, etc. People don't like it, though - twitchy combat is not for everyone; while it certainly can work for melee chars, ranged damage is prefered to be tab-targeted by most players.
I said it before but I bet I could go back on these forums and find the same hyped up posts about WAR. The "seething-mad haters" as you call them are no worse than the blindly devoted fans that never want to hear one negative thing or anything that may differ from their point of view. On these forums the whole point is discussion. You do not want to have one as you stated above with the "I'll just say you're wrong, and leave it at that." line.
I don't have a horse in this race. After having played TOR I know I will not buy it. I'm not trying to get anyone else to not buy it. I hope a lot of people do. The genre growing is not a bad thing. Competition should bring out the best in development teams and we should get even more quality games. I just simply do not agree that this game has much long term appeal. I could be wrong but so could you. I am willing to admit that.. you are not.
I agree with your post in how you're trying to make your point, in fact that's the kind of discussion I personally like: people who can like or dislike a game, have their opinion about it, but are sensible enough to acknowledge that other people might have different views and tastes than they themselves have, and be able to discuss it without falling into black&white extremes in argumenting.
As for the arguments, I didn't feel like reading back the whole former discussion, but wanted to focus on the points you mentioned here. I don't see what the level of hype had anything to do with how a game ends up to be. For example, GW2 is hyped even more with a lot of its fans bordering on almost religious zealot fervor of adoration towards the game who don't want to hear anything negative about 'their' game. Does this mean that GW2 won't do well? I beg to differ.
In fact, I think that forum hype or prerelease hype has very little actual correlation with the quality of a game, how it'll end up to be. If you'd go back far enough, I'm sure there'll be a lot of the same hyped up posts about WoW and LotrO too, yet they turned out to be quite good with healthy retention.
Which brings us to the next point: you believe that SWTOR doesn't have much long term appeal, which is an opinion, fair enough. Personally, I think SWTOR comes a hell of a lot closer to WoW and LotrO in quality level and longterm retention: if those games were able to retain players for a longer term, then I don't see why SWTOR doesn't have a good, solid chance as well.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I will say same thing as i said for Rift game will have its audience and will hold quite a few people around.
Though nowhere near numbers seen at release. A lot of people that will play TOR will be there for BW part of the game and i dont really think they have much interest in entering endgame raid gear treadmill. Same goes for a lot of people that are burnt from this type of MMO.
Personally i would like to play through few class stories, but i just cant justify box price+sub for that (and i can afford it without much, well, any sweat), so i would basically have to speed through single player game cause clock is ticking. Once game is in bargain bin i might pick it up.
I've seen many video's of this game.. but don't see any new things in it..
Then you haven't really been looking.
Why are people so excited of this game?
Voice overs instead of stagnant NPCs, choices that affect your character's standing in the game, large planets, a game that actually rewards you for exploring, a game that actually tries to have a fun story instead of boring text that means nothing, companion system,made by Bioware, based on Star Wars ... take your pick
to me its just an tab target quest from a to b game?
And what is wrong with tab target combat? If I wanted twitch based gameplay I'd pick one of a hudnred FPS games that are already on the market. Also,I'll take quests any day over the boring camp spawns of the past.
I predict this game will end up the same as rift..
Fine by me. From what I've seen Rift is still going strong. Long as it doesn't go the way of SWG I'll be a happy camper.
Originally posted by mikahr A lot of people that will play TOR will be there for BW part of the game and i dont really think they have much interest in entering endgame raid gear treadmill.
That will be me. I have no interest in raiding or gear grinds. I just hope that by the time I play through the original class choices, Bioware has implemented more.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
This game will not hold the vast majority past 3 months. it just simply has nothing new to offer and very little in the way of elder game for max level. As for leveling a alt, why? The quest are all the same, except class quest which make up a very very small amount of quest total. Will it be a epic fail, no. it will hold 1-2 m subs after 6 months, but I would not be suprised if it was closer to 1m after a year ( which is still very well for a mmo). But don't look for 3+ mil sub rate from a game that is very shallow.
Will it be a epic fail, no. it will hold 1-2 m subs after 6 months, but I would not be suprised if it was closer to 1m after a year ( which is still very well for a mmo). But don't look for 3+ mil sub rate from a game that is very shallow.
You mean, like WoW did, also a themepark MMORPG? Or are you saying that WoW has amazing depth and that themepark MMO's can have that too?
Besides that, I find speculations about over 3 million subs kinda moot at this point, since MMO playerbase behaviour as a whole has been hard to predict anyway, only 1 MMORPG in total has managed to surpass that kind of number in the west.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
This game will not hold the vast majority past 3 months. it just simply has nothing new to offer and very little in the way of elder game for max level. As for leveling a alt, why? The quest are all the same, except class quest which make up a very very small amount of quest total. Will it be a epic fail, no. it will hold 1-2 m subs after 6 months, but I would not be suprised if it was closer to 1m after a year ( which is still very well for a mmo). But don't look for 3+ mil sub rate from a game that is very shallow.
Even if the game holds close to 1 million subs it will still be in top 3 P2P MMOS players wise along with WOW and Rift. I don't see how is that a bad thing. Since when MMOS have to have 4 to 5 million subs to be a success?
Tab target.. fine by me.. but common.. does it require skill to press a button?
Every mmo which comes out have this tab target system.. which is basicly outdated..
1: see a mob
2: press Tab
3: press 3
i really don't see fun in this.. you stand infront of another person or mob and do this is cycle..
im rather more instrested in games like
Terra online
Guildwars 2 ( altho i don't know how excatly the dodging works)
But terra online have some high potental to me.. swing where you aim..
Do agree on people responses here. but but im starswars fan. me must buy this.. well go for it then..
Only be very warned... if your used to game like rift/wow or whatever you played.. this will be basicly the same.
How exactly does clicking the mouse button to lock a target require more "skill" (and I use that word very lightly) than clicking the keyboard to lock a target?
I have played aiming games. The only additional "skill" required in such games is the ability to lead your target, which is pretty basic stuff if you have ever played a flight-sim, which by the way require way more "skill" than some basic aiming FPS.
Every shooter which comes out have this aim based target system.. which is basicly outdated..
1: see a mob
2: aim
3: press button
i really don't see fun in this.. you stand infront of another person or mob and do this is cycle..
Changed your post for another perspective. I've been doing the same aim based targeting shooting since Doom and Unreal, a mechanics that has been around for 5-8 years longer than MMORPG's, and something that me and a lot of other gamers have been using for shooters since that long.
Yet, the aim based mechanics in itself is still the base for shooters, with most people using the exact same core mechanic that they've been using since they played shooters and that has been the foundation of shooters since the first ones came around almost 20 years ago.
If it's time that should be the factor to make someone get bored with a certain mechanic, well, aim based targeting has been around a hell of a lot longer than MMORPG's.
I think it's far simpler than that, tastes differ per person, what one person finds exciting or boring is simply different from what another person finds such. It's all based upon people's individual experiences, tastes and thresholds. There are also people who've burnt themselves out completely on shooters and its aim based mechanics after playing them for years and for thousands of hours. To each their own means of finding what works for them to have fun.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Every shooter which comes out have this aim based target system.. which is basicly outdated..
1: see a mob
2: aim
3: press button
i really don't see fun in this.. you stand infront of another person or mob and do this is cycle..
Changed your post for another perspective. I've been doing the same aim based targeting shooting since Doom and Unreal, a mechanics that has been around for 5-8 years longer than MMORPG's, and something that me and a lot of other gamers have been using for shooters since that long.
Yet, the aim based mechanics in itself is still the base for shooters, with most people using the exact same core mechanic that they've been using since they played shooters and that has been the foundation of shooters since the first ones came around almost 20 years ago.
If it's time that should be the factor to make someone get bored with a certain mechanic, well, aim based targeting has been around a hell of a lot longer than MMORPG's.
I think it's far simpler than that, tastes differ per person, what one person finds exciting or boring is simply different from what another person finds such. It's all based upon people's individual experiences, tastes and thresholds. There are also people who've burnt themselves out completely on shooters and its aim based mechanics after playing them for years and for thousands of hours. To each their own means of finding what works for them to have fun.
hmm i know that shooters are way longer then mmorpg..
but ain't we talking about mmmorpg? and yes planet side is more a shooter with mmorpg elements..
from what i read here on this forum that basicly people are getting dissapointed over and over again when a new mmorpg with tab target is being released..
Originally posted by TUX426 Originally posted by Snoepie I've seen many video's of this game.. but don't see any new things in it..
I know what you mean - I went to this place called a "library" once, and I was like "who the hell would come here, just look at how stupid the covers of these books are lulz!?"
You know how the saying goes... You can always judge a book by its cover.
Comments
The problem with your response to me is that you failed to answer my questions correctly. I said "every other game", but you only pointed out a few.
To address your points:
1. All games are not carbon copies of each other. Quite obvious to everyone who plays different genres of games.
2. Elder scrolls is not an MMORPG, nor is it every other game.
3. Naming a few science fiction games ( which I am already aware of) is not every other game.
I forget the name of the argument tactic.
X was hyped. X failed. Therefore, since Y was also hyped, it will also fail.
I beta'd WAR, and I recall my conclusion to be that it's comparable to Vanilla WoW with some additional features that were somewhat amusing. I admit that I did think it would do better than it did, but it was certainly not gonna be a WoWkiller. Matter of fact, I remember a forum post on another site that said: "If you think this game(WAR) is gonna have anything less than 3 million subs, you're smoking some serious WoW crack." I've kept it in my head ever since, knowing the dude was definitely gonna eat those words.
I also doubt TOR will be a WOWkiller. But I DO think it will do what WoW did: bring in a pretty big crowd of people that have never played MMO's, and never before considered playing them. KotOR and Star Wars fans, alike. People like my brother, who loved the KotOR games, but read about SWG and passed because it looked dull to him. I think TOR's single player game quality content will keep those players for at least as long as it takes to complete it.
Initial numbers will be big. With the preorder numbers being where they are, that's pretty much a fact. Whether it will keep those people and grow like WoW did, we can only speculate. But the sheer amount of content available to the player, and the fact that it not only has everything every other MMO of its kind has, and often does it far BETTER(exception: wardrobe/clothing), is something that could not be said of WAR.
There's actually several terms that apply (depending on how the rest of the argument proceeds). They're all False Cause fallacies. Most likely cum hoc ergo propter hoc, or just a variant of Slippery Slope.
The basic gist is that crystal balls are hazy and difficult to use. Predictive argument is tricky as hell.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy
I'd say it's an association fallacy.
Ya know, I don't know why you're even worried about it. Will it really make any difference to you if it succeeds without you? Seriously, if you don't see any appeal then it shouldn't right? Or are you such a Lemming that you can bear the idea of not running "off the cliff" with everyone else?
Maybe its that you feel like you have to have something new and "revolutionary", and this isn't it. Which I might suggest is an example of Unrealistic Expectations. If you buy this game then you're a fool, because you've already set yourself up for a huge disappointment. And its NOT going to be BioWare's fault. It's all going to be on you. Though it will be typical for you to complain anyway. Just because you have inflated estimation of the value of your own opinions.
Honestly, the rest of us aren't really going to care. We're going to be having too much fun playing...
You're right. Because, you know, there's raiding for better gear in Eve. And Darkfall. And especially in UO.
Hey, i say let this be a challenge to all the doubters and full throttle haters, who haven't played the game and continue with the bull crude post's. You now have a free access to play the game via this site and others for the next beta test coming up. I say put up or shut and get yourself a key and play the damn game for yourself. The game will never be everything for everybody, but the game is rock solid and for millions i would assume, will be just right on many levels.
With any MMOs, the game will only go as far as the player base will allow it to.
Using myself, and admittedly anecdotal evidence, as an example. I have been playing LOTRO since it launched. Was a fairly well designed game, which has been getting worse and worse with each patch, but I stick around because of the peopel I've met. Conversly, I dabbled in Rift, found it to be a fantastic game, mechanics, difficulty, etc... were all where I wanted them to be, the problem was that I kept meeting and getting lumped with some real jerks in the dungeon finder (which I was forced to use since I was feeling out trying to find a guild), it just became too much to take with what limited play time I have.
So I went back to LOTRO. Really hoping to find a game to pull me away for good, and have great people. With the Star Wars IP, It hink the caliber of people will be a good mix of good and bad, with more leaning on the good.
btw, how do you propose targeting? Point and click? rotflmao
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
fps style shooter, direct evasion, etc. People don't like it, though - twitchy combat is not for everyone; while it certainly can work for melee chars, ranged damage is prefered to be tab-targeted by most players.
I agree with your post in how you're trying to make your point, in fact that's the kind of discussion I personally like: people who can like or dislike a game, have their opinion about it, but are sensible enough to acknowledge that other people might have different views and tastes than they themselves have, and be able to discuss it without falling into black&white extremes in argumenting.
As for the arguments, I didn't feel like reading back the whole former discussion, but wanted to focus on the points you mentioned here. I don't see what the level of hype had anything to do with how a game ends up to be. For example, GW2 is hyped even more with a lot of its fans bordering on almost religious zealot fervor of adoration towards the game who don't want to hear anything negative about 'their' game. Does this mean that GW2 won't do well? I beg to differ.
In fact, I think that forum hype or prerelease hype has very little actual correlation with the quality of a game, how it'll end up to be. If you'd go back far enough, I'm sure there'll be a lot of the same hyped up posts about WoW and LotrO too, yet they turned out to be quite good with healthy retention.
Which brings us to the next point: you believe that SWTOR doesn't have much long term appeal, which is an opinion, fair enough. Personally, I think SWTOR comes a hell of a lot closer to WoW and LotrO in quality level and longterm retention: if those games were able to retain players for a longer term, then I don't see why SWTOR doesn't have a good, solid chance as well.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I will say same thing as i said for Rift game will have its audience and will hold quite a few people around.
Though nowhere near numbers seen at release. A lot of people that will play TOR will be there for BW part of the game and i dont really think they have much interest in entering endgame raid gear treadmill. Same goes for a lot of people that are burnt from this type of MMO.
Personally i would like to play through few class stories, but i just cant justify box price+sub for that (and i can afford it without much, well, any sweat), so i would basically have to speed through single player game cause clock is ticking. Once game is in bargain bin i might pick it up.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
This game will not hold the vast majority past 3 months. it just simply has nothing new to offer and very little in the way of elder game for max level. As for leveling a alt, why? The quest are all the same, except class quest which make up a very very small amount of quest total. Will it be a epic fail, no. it will hold 1-2 m subs after 6 months, but I would not be suprised if it was closer to 1m after a year ( which is still very well for a mmo). But don't look for 3+ mil sub rate from a game that is very shallow.
You mean, like WoW did, also a themepark MMORPG? Or are you saying that WoW has amazing depth and that themepark MMO's can have that too?
Besides that, I find speculations about over 3 million subs kinda moot at this point, since MMO playerbase behaviour as a whole has been hard to predict anyway, only 1 MMORPG in total has managed to surpass that kind of number in the west.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Even if the game holds close to 1 million subs it will still be in top 3 P2P MMOS players wise along with WOW and Rift. I don't see how is that a bad thing. Since when MMOS have to have 4 to 5 million subs to be a success?
ever heard of aiming in mmorpg?
darkfall/mortal online/planet side/fallen earth
Tab target.. fine by me.. but common.. does it require skill to press a button?
Every mmo which comes out have this tab target system.. which is basicly outdated..
1: see a mob
2: press Tab
3: press 3
i really don't see fun in this.. you stand infront of another person or mob and do this is cycle..
im rather more instrested in games like
Terra online
Guildwars 2 ( altho i don't know how excatly the dodging works)
But terra online have some high potental to me.. swing where you aim..
Do agree on people responses here. but but im starswars fan. me must buy this.. well go for it then..
Only be very warned... if your used to game like rift/wow or whatever you played.. this will be basicly the same.
How exactly does clicking the mouse button to lock a target require more "skill" (and I use that word very lightly) than clicking the keyboard to lock a target?
I have played aiming games. The only additional "skill" required in such games is the ability to lead your target, which is pretty basic stuff if you have ever played a flight-sim, which by the way require way more "skill" than some basic aiming FPS.
Changed your post for another perspective. I've been doing the same aim based targeting shooting since Doom and Unreal, a mechanics that has been around for 5-8 years longer than MMORPG's, and something that me and a lot of other gamers have been using for shooters since that long.
Yet, the aim based mechanics in itself is still the base for shooters, with most people using the exact same core mechanic that they've been using since they played shooters and that has been the foundation of shooters since the first ones came around almost 20 years ago.
If it's time that should be the factor to make someone get bored with a certain mechanic, well, aim based targeting has been around a hell of a lot longer than MMORPG's.
I think it's far simpler than that, tastes differ per person, what one person finds exciting or boring is simply different from what another person finds such. It's all based upon people's individual experiences, tastes and thresholds. There are also people who've burnt themselves out completely on shooters and its aim based mechanics after playing them for years and for thousands of hours. To each their own means of finding what works for them to have fun.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I have no idea how aiming with a mouse and then pressing a button makes you any more skilled than a guy tab tageting.
*scratches head*
hmm i know that shooters are way longer then mmorpg..
but ain't we talking about mmmorpg? and yes planet side is more a shooter with mmorpg elements..
from what i read here on this forum that basicly people are getting dissapointed over and over again when a new mmorpg with tab target is being released..
i think we can take the last sentence as a fact..
You know how the saying goes... You can always judge a book by its cover.