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How STar WArs can compete with Guild Wars 2
dontadow
Member UncommonPosts: 1,005
This a long post written to give an unbiased, educated and possible theory on small changes SWTOR can implement over 3 months to compete with GW2’s impending release.
I am, by no means, a person complaining about this game. The improvements to story and social aspects of the game really have made me a fan of the MMO genre once again (as opposed to just having something to do with my family, we actually have fun with the game.)
This is a big thing for me to say, considering I was never going to buy SWTOR until December 5th, when my brother convinced me. I just didn’t read enough that would make it sound more innovative than Guild Wars 2 .
However, it is not enough to stop me from wanting to play Guild Wars 2 because the major gripes are still there with MMOs (linear leveling zones, 1 and done quests, lack of spontaneity) star wars has 6 months at least, to implement game play options (not rehash the entire game, that’s impossible) that will make it able to compete with guild wars in terms of MMO innovation.
There are four aspects that I see as clear advantages guild wars has over star wars. Below is a list of these advantages and realistic ways SWTOR could close the gap without too much “effort”. As a programmer, I tried to think of suggestions that do not require major game overhaul. That can easily be included as additional content or patch somewhere in a 6 month period. So yeah, I would love the elimination of the xp system, it’s not going to happen.
Guild Wars has eliminated the holy trinity system
SWTOR can not do this without rehauling their game. However, they can take the rift approach. SWTOR could allow multiple builds of characters. Another solution, is to allow players alts to become members of their crew, allowing players to easily change out characters using a quick logout-login process. Sure, DHT is still needed, but at least now players can more easily swap out builds for others.
SWTOR could also implement new ability trees that blend and meld the trinity. Class options in SWTOR are limited.
Guild Wars will not have traditional quests, instead quests will be stumbled upon in the open world and spawn dynamic content based on variables.
This is a hard one for SWTOR to overcome, but not out of the realm of possible. SWTOR could use this time to develop a third or fourth faction in their mythos with one of them being non-playable. This extra faction could be “random invasions” that happen in areas on the planet, in zones and be varied very akin to Rift’s rifts.
These variable encounters could be zone specific and allow for additional quest threads. This would be a great 6 month mark introduction and encourage people to replay earlier zones. The threat level could be triggered by an equation that calculates number of people in the zone. And it could come with penalities. Perhaps increasing the difficulty of zone monsters if it is failed or providing a boost to rewards if successful. These will last until the next invasion is triggered. (possibly by a number of reoccurring quests being performed).
In order to counteract Guild Wars (no need for exclamation mark quest guy) these quests can be automatically provided to players ni the area with everyone receiving the same rewards or penalties.
SWTOR could use the method they use to autoinstance content for classes and change the formula to autoinstance content based on level. Thus parties of a certain level on newer planets may get a completely different story. This would greatly encourage SWTOR’s effort to get people to create alts.
Give players the option (via preferences-interface) to cut off quest objectives (such as collect 5 of this, or kill 3 of this). This feels like it would just be instituting a button that hides some content.
Guild Wars will have autogrouping
If Rift can do this, SWTOR should be able to. The #1 complaint now is people saying that they are not able to easily quest. Sure, I know this argument is lame. But most people are afraid to click on someone and rlight click invite for fear of rejection. Which is why Rift rocks. When you go into a zone, you have an option to join the public party and do the rift quests others are doing. This would be nice even now for heroic quests.
Guild Wars will have multiple storylines per dungeon
SWTOR should be able to truly flourish with this one, using true/false conditions, SWTOR could introduce new content in flashpoints based on decisions. For instance, when playing essex, I really wanted to kill the supposed traitor diplomat, what would have happened if I had that option. Currently, too many dialogue options mean nothing in the long run (but light and dark points). SWTOR already has a few quests that do this, open up quest chains with alternative endings. This sounds like the easiet thing to do in SWTOR.
My hope is that bioware will clearly see that it is at a disadvantage with Guild Wars 2, and, just as it did to Rift/Wow, so will Guild Wars 2 do to them if they don’t have a few awesome patches before GW2 is released.
Comments
This isn't necessary I beleive it'll only lead into crazy arguments.
They don't ned all that stuff as well, just like it for the current gen mmorpg it is, I mean to me they just need to get responsive flow in their combat and over all gameplay that's what theys hould fix in 6 months, and the UI and what not.
They just want to give a people another mmorpg to play not one to change the whole view point of mmorpgs.
It's all about the benjamins.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
lol...SWTOR is doing fine. despite the cesspool of fanboy wars we live in, these games don't affect each other nearly as much as they affect themselves. if bioware can fix the issues with SWTOR in a reasonable time it will thrive and reach its potential...no other game has much of an effect on that.
I am not saying now, i am saying from six months.
I wrote this, because I now look at my rift, the one i spent 9 months with. 6 months ago, people knew what was coming in Star Wars (and guild wars). Rift's fanbase pretty much detracted them both, talking about how great rift was and how polished it was. And it was all true. But, I feel the lack of urgency by Trion is what is leading to the mass exodus it is now experiencing. No matter how good swtor is, (and its good) there is going to be a mass exodus from a lot of people (8 friends playing swtor 6 and a guild just using it as a placeholder for GW2 (as we did Rift)).
If Bioware starts preparing now, they will be able ot halt the hemoraging, or, if they do real well, make the inovations in guild wars 2 seem fairly hold or not needed.
I'm not playing the game currently, but I did log about 25 hours during the beta and had a level 17 and was pretty confident that SWTOR did have this in the earlier flashpoints at least. Where I had gone through the instance once before, killing a large robot, choices that players made during the dialogues of the flashpoint the second time I went through it yielded different results for a part of the mission. o.o Maybe I just imagined that though, I don't know.
I had actually credited SWTOR's flashpoints for doing that since it was something I was looking forward to in GW2 but now you have me second guessing if I was giving TOR more credit than I should have?
They both have those so your not going blind, the only difference unless I'm wrong is the structure of the dungeons don't change in SWTOR, I haven't tried a flash point out since november in OB so let me know if I'm wrong.
If you redo a dungeon in SWTOR and it looks different with completely different objectives then your not imagining anything at all.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Lol, I don't think they are "competing" in any way.
My dislike for SWTOR has nothing to do with GW2 or the dumb "there can be only one!" argument. If there was any true competition involved I would be as critical if not more about other upcoming games such as Archeage, TSW, Firefall etc... but I'm not. I really am looking forward to those.
My criticism of SWTOR is based solely on that game's qualities and GW2 has nothing to do with it.
If you like SWTOR, then have fun! GW2 is just another game which you might also like or dislike, but they are not in "competition." It's just an invention by fans and haters to justify and emphasise their attitude to one game or the other.
SWTOR and GW2 seem very different games and cater to different players.
..Cake..
Agreed.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Without being a dick, why do you want to make SWTOR into GW2`?
And im not fanboy defending SWTOR as my post history here shows, but rather asking an obvious questionl. GW2 is GW2, SWTOR is SWTOR.
Dont take this the wrong way OP, but if someone wanted to build an unsuccessful MMORPG, I think taking your suggestions would be a great start. I honestly dont say that to be offensive, and it's one simple principle that plays out. MMO's that bastardize or do complete 180 degree turns from what they do best are train wrecks. Go visit any SWG fan and ask what the NGE did for the game.
Bioware rolled out a fairly traditional formula that seems to work pretty well. I'm not going to hazzard any number guesses, but I belong to a community that has in excess of 120 members playing across both factions, and the amount of people who dont care for the game, I could count on one hand. I'm not saying it is universal, I'm not saying they'll all feel that way 3-6 months from now. I am saying that the initial impression has been overwhelmingly favorable.
To address your suggestions directly:
I like the trinity because I enjoy roles like healing and tanking. You may want something different, but there is definitely a large group of people who like the trinity. In addition, having played TOR extensively for months in beta thru today, I have no issue saying that roles like healers and DPS can play like a hybrid in many situation, where if you have a skill you use it. The standard trinity is realize more on boss encounters though.
The Guild Wars quests kind of look like crap to me. That's just me though, I know it appeals to some folks. It definitely isnt unlimited options.
Autogrouping? Not really needed, and I dont think it adds a whole lot. I honestly havent seen many people asking for it. If you want legit issue talk about a customizeable UI, which is something players are really asking for.
Multiple storylines thru dungeons? You mean like on Black Talon where if you kill the captatin you fight to the engine room and kill the droid, and where if you save him you have to fight to the docking bay and kill the strike team? Choices like that? There are some limits on what designers can and cant do, and I think before too many people get excited about what GW2 is promising, they oughta wait and experience it for what it is.
Interesting post, but we get it, you like GW2 and what it promises, which right now is little more than promises. I hope you get the game you are lookin' for but to be honest, not one of the things you suggested appeals to me in the least. Even worse the idea of trying to shoehorn them into an existing system. No thanks.
The reason SWTOR is 'doing fine' at this moment is that it is brand new, and really has no competition. There's Rift, which most people already walked away from, and that's about it for new games. When GW2 and The Secret World come out, SWTOR will not be in this position.
I think people overestimate the power of the Star Wars property these days. I'm probably one of the biggest Star Wars nerds around here, but I know that the current generation of teen gamers really doesn't give much of a damn about it. It's old to them, and their introduction to it was through the lackluster prequels. Movies like Harry Potter, Cameron's Avatar or the Transformers fanchise have replaced Star Wars in modern times. SW just doesn't carry the weight it used to.
This game is ultimately going to have to perform based on gameplay. I don't think the story is going to carry it very far, and it breaks traditional MMO gameplay centering on the single player in a lot of ways A lot of people here who were singing the praises of SWTOR have come out and posted negative or "blah" reviews about it, so even though these forums are full of a more discerning group of MMO players than "the masses", I think there are far more people who will be wondering where the heart in this game is. We'll find out for sure in the coming months, and especially when GW2 release with a Buy-to-Play business plan that eliminates this $15 sub. Anyone who thinks GW2 isn't going to be a polished high-end themepark is simply smoking crack.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
GW2 is the ultimate casual MMO.
No sub fee, very little to no grinding, completely consensual PvP, no need to group or have roles in a group (just "natural" open world cooperation), no raiding, etc.
SWTOR is still a very "classic" MMORPG in terms of say EQ, WoW in that there is a level grind (covered by story) and gear grind and raiding and all of the other "classic" EQ-esque MMO stuff GW2 simply doesn't have and isn't going to have.
Sure, there is going to be some cross over, for instance I am going to be hardcore playing TOR in PvP and raiding, but will still buy and play GW2 because it is so casual and because it has no sub fee.
They are as much in competition as say Madden would be in competition with CoD 3.
People still don't think that GW2 will be competing with subscription based games??
I approve this OP.
I think that SWTOR should do this. They could make a massive patch and call it something that really reflects the new environment of the game after the patch is implemented.
Hmmm...what could they call it. Oh I know!
The "New Game Environment" (NGE).
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
You realize that many AAA MMOs have gone F2P right? Most of them GAINED subscriptions when they converted. Guild Wars 1 has always been Buy To Play, and it was a very successful game (ignoring the WoW anomaly). GW2 will be a full-featured, high-budget AAA game, and to suggest it won't because it doesn't have a $15 sub fee is simply incorrect. Watch and learn.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Are you sugesting that GW2 is the -new- newschool MMO? Like the next after WoW? Something that you would call "next gen"?
Because I think thats what you said...
TOR has plenty of competition, one of the toughest things for any MMO is getting players to drop the games they're already playing, be it WOW or any other MMO. There's a lot to leave behind be it friends, guilds, accomplishments, etc... The competition will only grow when those games arrive, but most certainly has already started.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Just wanted to emphasie Nothing I suggested would replace current content. These are additions that seem possible to be programmed within the current structure of the game.
Even as a traditional MMO, take away the newness, and Rift does the hybrid trinity system better. There are at least a dozen forms of each of the 3 trinity. That is not hte case with SWTOR, whereas you are locked into 3 to 5 builds per trinity class.
Also, SWTOR is great at launch, but without some fix, its going to be hard to recommend to friends. not because itsn ot great, but because it always looks crazy for me to recommend a game to someone, only to not be able to play with them for days, sometimes maybe weeks or months because of the wa leveling works.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
People who think GW2 won't have a grind haven't played the original. Sure, leveling and playing the game aren't a grind, but if you want to stand out from the crowd with unique skins and titles there is a lot of time to put into the game.
GW2 won't be much like GW1
.
That said though, I think every MMORPG is going to have a "grind" of some sort, to some people. All that matters is that there is enough for most people to do to stop them from feeling like they are grinding.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
There is no competition between StarWars and GW2 any more theres competition between StarWars and the Sims or StarWars and Skyrim .
The reason for this should be obvious to all GW2 is buy to play and given most people only pay to play one MMO a month it wont effect the one they are paying to play any more than say if they play the Sims or Skyrim .
There is no conflict between these two games for this reason .
I play Dead Island and Lotro at the moment as well as StarWars neither of them effect my choice of main pay to play mmo . Im also looking forward to Guild Wars 2 but because there no subscription I will happily play it as well as StarWars ToR .
I think the majority of people are thinking this way about Guild Wars to whether they play Rift ,WoW or ToR .
Theres a few planks that want to make a GW2 VS TOR conflict which is like saying boxing competes with wrestling when anyone with any sence can see they are two different arenas .
When I say competition, I mean the limited resource of time and money. MMOs demand both. I don't know too many people who actively play both.
.
Agreed. I can't imagine playing anything other than my main MMO, let alone multiple MMOs. People must lock themselves in their homes and play 8+ hours per day.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.