He said the holy trinity was invented by blizzard.
Lol! Was wow also the first MMO?
I actually think that the trinity concept, meaning that there are players designated to specific roles in combat (heal, dps, tank) predatesRPG video games completely.
D&D is ultimately where the trinity concept comes from, and it came out in 1974 .
I'm not sure this is true. I played a lot of PnP games (DnD included) and the ability to actually role-play, strategize, etc outside of game mechanic restraints, made it possible to play any group of characters and survive/achieve goals. Video game mechanics are what caused the trinity to be necessary to win. Even in DDO, you can do most content on norm, hard and a lot of elite without a cleric or full tank.
True, the trinity wasn't "required" in D&D, because the GM could just sculpt the encounters to be something the party could deal with. But I think it definitely introduced the concept of: "The fighter is good at taking damage," "the cleric is good at healing damage," "The rogue/wizard is good at doing damage."
He said the holy trinity was invented by blizzard.
Lol! Was wow also the first MMO?
I actually think that the trinity concept, meaning that there are players designated to specific roles in combat (heal, dps, tank) predatesRPG video games completely.
D&D is ultimately where the trinity concept comes from, and it came out in 1974 .
I'm not sure this is true. I played a lot of PnP games (DnD included) and the ability to actually role-play, strategize, etc outside of game mechanic restraints, made it possible to play any group of characters and survive/achieve goals. Video game mechanics are what caused the trinity to be necessary to win. Even in DDO, you can do most content on norm, hard and a lot of elite without a cleric or full tank.
True, the trinity wasn't "required" in D&D, because the GM could just sculpt the encounters to be something the party could deal with. But I think it definitely introduced the concept of: "The fighter is good at taking damage," "the cleric is good at healing damage," "The rogue/wizard is good at doing damage."
I agree it laid down the roles of the classes. Video game mechanics is what locks gameplay into those roles. I'm very interested in how GW2's different mechanics in this respect work out. I always hated waiting forever for a cleric or tank to join party or being a healer-bot and not get to attack or melee. Hopefully it will be a fun system. I think we are a bit off topic, so to the OP's point. TOR doesn't need to change to "beat" GW2, just need to be the best at what they do and keep thier players happy with improvements and new content.
He said the holy trinity was invented by blizzard.
Lol! Was wow also the first MMO?
I actually think that the trinity concept, meaning that there are players designated to specific roles in combat (heal, dps, tank) predatesRPG video games completely.
D&D is ultimately where the trinity concept comes from, and it came out in 1974 .
I'm not sure this is true. I played a lot of PnP games (DnD included) and the ability to actually role-play, strategize, etc outside of game mechanic restraints, made it possible to play any group of characters and survive/achieve goals. Video game mechanics are what caused the trinity to be necessary to win. Even in DDO, you can do most content on norm, hard and a lot of elite without a cleric or full tank.
True, the trinity wasn't "required" in D&D, because the GM could just sculpt the encounters to be something the party could deal with. But I think it definitely introduced the concept of: "The fighter is good at taking damage," "the cleric is good at healing damage," "The rogue/wizard is good at doing damage."
I agree it laid down the roles of the classes. Video game mechanics is what locks gameplay into those roles. I'm very interested in how GW2's different mechanics in this respect work out. I always hated waiting forever for a cleric or tank to join party or being a healer-bot and not get to attack or melee. Hopefully it will be a fun system. I think we are a bit off topic, so to the OP's point. TOR doesn't need to change to "beat" GW2, just need to be the best at what they do and keep thier players happy with improvements and new content.
You said it. I think that TOR will still have a decent audience after GW2 comes out.
And even if someone has a crystal ball and knows that GW2 will destroy TOR...there's not much BW could do at this point. They are never going to be "better" at being GW2 than GW2 is. They should try to carve their own niche.
If Rift can do this, SWTOR should be able to. The #1 complaint now is people saying that they are not able to easily quest. Sure, I know this argument is lame. But most people are afraid to click on someone and rlight click invite for fear of rejection. Which is why Rift rocks. When you go into a zone, you have an option to join the public party and do the rift quests others are doing. This would be nice even now for heroic quests.
what? first time hearing about this
ugh, my hype for GW2 just took a dramatic dive
Originally posted by xmenty
Think BW cannot compete with Arenanet till BW grow some balls to push the MMO genre to another level.
Of course you never heard about it because the OP is misinterpreting it, just like how he thinks that the only way for TOR to compete with GW2 is to become GW2. GW2 won't group you automatically for Dynamic Events, players will just be in the same area doing the same things. Lack of kill stealing removes the need for these ad hoc groups usually created in other MMOs.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
If Rift can do this, SWTOR should be able to. The #1 complaint now is people saying that they are not able to easily quest. Sure, I know this argument is lame. But most people are afraid to click on someone and rlight click invite for fear of rejection. Which is why Rift rocks. When you go into a zone, you have an option to join the public party and do the rift quests others are doing. This would be nice even now for heroic quests.
what? first time hearing about this
ugh, my hype for GW2 just took a dramatic dive
This is not quite true. You do not 'autogroup'.
Any player is free to participate in the killing of any mobs, whether it be an event or not. Everyone gets xp for the kill.Xp depends on how much you participated in the event and/or kills. This includes healing etc and not just combat.
In events, mob difficulty increases depending on the number of players participating.
There is no enforced grouping, but you can group with others if you wish.
Don't know what Dontadow is talking about, but there's no auto-grouping in GW2.
I don't think TOR needs to change anything to compete with GW2, I think that TOR will stay very healthy after Guild Wars 2 releases. Having 2 high-pop MMOs to play only benefits the genre, so no need to compete with eachother.
Think BW cannot compete with Arenanet till BW grow some balls to push the MMO genre to another level.
and why the fuck should they do this?
Why shouldn't they? Do we really need the industry putting up with another year of companies churning the same sort of crap using a simialr stagnant game play model? Every years for like the past 7 years it has been same shit, different skin, and I am getting a little tired of it.
SWTOR can not do this without rehauling their game. However, they can take the rift approach. SWTOR could allow multiple builds of characters. Another solution, is to allow players alts to become members of their crew, allowing players to easily change out characters using a quick logout-login process. Sure, DHT is still needed, but at least now players can more easily swap out builds for others.
SWTOR could also implement new ability trees that blend and meld the trinity. Class options in SWTOR are limited.
Guild Wars will not have traditional quests, instead quests will be stumbled upon in the open world and spawn dynamic content based on variables.
This is a hard one for SWTOR to overcome, but not out of the realm of possible. SWTOR could use this time to develop a third or fourth faction in their mythos with one of them being non-playable. This extra faction could be “random invasions” that happen in areas on the planet, in zones and be varied very akin to Rift’s rifts.
These variable encounters could be zone specific and allow for additional quest threads. This would be a great 6 month mark introduction and encourage people to replay earlier zones. The threat level could be triggered by an equation that calculates number of people in the zone. And it could come with penalities. Perhaps increasing the difficulty of zone monsters if it is failed or providing a boost to rewards if successful. These will last until the next invasion is triggered. (possibly by a number of reoccurring quests being performed).
In order to counteract Guild Wars (no need for exclamation mark quest guy) these quests can be automatically provided to players ni the area with everyone receiving the same rewards or penalties.
SWTOR could use the method they use to autoinstance content for classes and change the formula to autoinstance content based on level. Thus parties of a certain level on newer planets may get a completely different story. This would greatly encourage SWTOR’s effort to get people to create alts.
Give players the option (via preferences-interface) to cut off quest objectives (such as collect 5 of this, or kill 3 of this). This feels like it would just be instituting a button that hides some content.
Guild Wars will have autogrouping
If Rift can do this, SWTOR should be able to. The #1 complaint now is people saying that they are not able to easily quest. Sure, I know this argument is lame. But most people are afraid to click on someone and rlight click invite for fear of rejection. Which is why Rift rocks. When you go into a zone, you have an option to join the public party and do the rift quests others are doing. This would be nice even now for heroic quests.
Guild Wars will have multiple storylines per dungeon
SWTOR should be able to truly flourish with this one, using true/false conditions, SWTOR could introduce new content in flashpoints based on decisions. For instance, when playing essex, I really wanted to kill the supposed traitor diplomat, what would have happened if I had that option. Currently, too many dialogue options mean nothing in the long run (but light and dark points). SWTOR already has a few quests that do this, open up quest chains with alternative endings. This sounds like the easiet thing to do in SWTOR.
My hope is that bioware will clearly see that it is at a disadvantage with Guild Wars 2, and, just as it did to Rift/Wow, so will Guild Wars 2 do to them if they don’t have a few awesome patches before GW2 is released.
Ok the poster in here failed to consider some things when making this....
1. SWTOR Is not will not and never will be gw2, to try to make it into gw2 would be rather insulting to the ip.
2. Character classes would have to stay the same and multi class systems would not work in the tor universe as it goes against the fluff of the sw universe
3.Tor already has this, Many areas have side quest you stumble apon by killing something and finding a quest launch item or even picking up datacons can lead to quest.
4. questing in tor does not need grouping less you are trying to do heroic quest, which is just like any other sub mmo requiring you to either form social contacts or OMG type in chat lfg heroic
5. A different instance arc depending on your choices would actualy work in this as the light and dark side options could easily be done to create some interesting game play experiences however things like these generally run counter productive to loot farming, however they would also open up more loot drops per instance.
Personally I dont think bioware will ave to worry about generic wars 2 as the things you have mentioned they will have other games have and most of those games failed to sustain a possitive cash flow from the player base due to lack of intrest in these so called good ideas....If every one wanted these things in a game it would have already been made, and since experimenting with these has shown game developers that they do not pan out good for the game as a whole putting them all in one place is like dumping trash with toxic waste and a side of medical waste...Its just a bad idea.
So please stop trying to change something people obviously like so it can be more like something else.
Trying to be a little of this and a little of that in games never works out as well as a pure class....In wow a tank paladin trying to heal tends to fail.
There is a reason to have specialization classes. Cause they fit into a role of the game....If tanks could heal themself then they would lack in agro generation. If dps could also tank then they would be broken in pvp.
Lol, I don't think they are "competing" in any way.
My dislike for SWTOR has nothing to do with GW2 or the dumb "there can be only one!" argument. If there was any true competition involved I would be as critical if not more about other upcoming games such as Archeage, TSW, Firefall etc... but I'm not. I really am looking forward to those.
My criticism of SWTOR is based solely on that game's qualities and GW2 has nothing to do with it.
If you like SWTOR, then have fun! GW2 is just another game which you might also like or dislike, but they are not in "competition." It's just an invention by fans and haters to justify and emphasise their attitude to one game or the other.
Any player is free to participate in the killing of any mobs, whether it be an event or not. Everyone gets xp for the kill.Xp depends on how much you participated in the event and/or kills. This includes healing etc and not just combat.
In events, mob difficulty increases depending on the number of players participating.
There is no enforced grouping, but you can group with others if you wish.
well that's better, i know quest are shared and everyone contributes to filling up the bar, but the auto group thing was new to me, good to hear it's wrong
Originally posted by Shoju
Why shouldn't they? Do we really need the industry putting up with another year of companies churning the same sort of crap using a simialr stagnant game play model? Every years for like the past 7 years it has been same shit, different skin, and I am getting a little tired of it.
I eat pizza atleast once per month, I like pizza, I enjoy pizza, I don't need some radical new revolution in the way pizzas are made
Originally posted by SnarkRitter
Obviously, because it's Asian it must be an Asian grinder, stereotype is the way to go!
yeah, aion was also like that with no grind the first 25-30 levels, after that it took a nose dive into grindfest teritory
and yes, because it is asian it has a higher chance to be a grindfest since that's what asian players enjoy and an asian dev will look at the needs and wants of their primary playerbase first
it's why I don't go looking at japanese games when i want an RPG with a european theme, a wast world to explore, character creation and a western looking artstyle
yeah, aion was also like that with no grind the first 25-30 levels, after that it took a nose dive into grindfest teritory
and yes, because it is asian it has a higher chance to be a grindfest since that's what asian players enjoy and an asian dev will look at the needs and wants of their primary playerbase first
it's why I don't go looking at japanese games when i want an RPG with a european theme, a wast world to explore, character creation and a western looking artstyle
Arenanet are based in the US. How does this make it an asian grinder?
If I recall correctly, the dev team stated that each level will take more-or-less the same amount of time as the last level. I.e. a linear increase rather than an exponential increase.
That is not to say that the game cannot be tailored to suit different cultures as the game could do this easily.
There is no competition between StarWars and GW2 any more theres competition between StarWars and the Sims or StarWars and Skyrim .
The reason for this should be obvious to all GW2 is buy to play and given most people only pay to play one MMO a month it wont effect the one they are paying to play any more than say if they play the Sims or Skyrim .
There is no conflict between these two games for this reason .
I play Dead Island and Lotro at the moment as well as StarWars neither of them effect my choice of main pay to play mmo . Im also looking forward to Guild Wars 2 but because there no subscription I will happily play it as well as StarWars ToR .
I think the majority of people are thinking this way about Guild Wars to whether they play Rift ,WoW or ToR .
Theres a few planks that want to make a GW2 VS TOR conflict which is like saying boxing competes with wrestling when anyone with any sence can see they are two different arenas .
When I say competition, I mean the limited resource of time and money. MMOs demand both. I don't know too many people who actively play both.
The time issue is something everyone chooses to ignore. Few of us have unlimited time to spend gaming. We need to choose what gets our limited leisure time. Because of this, the payment model is somewhat irrelevant. Some people don't mind maintaining a sub for something they aren't playing because they intend to return. But I think most of us prefer not to pay for a service we aren't using.
That being said, GW2 isn't going to be THE competition for SWTOR, just part of it. There will be other games out there that will by vying for players' time just as effectively as GW2. SWTOR needs to contend with all of them. And unlke the current state of games today, those competitors look to be very strong. SWTOR released in a bit of a vaccuum, but it's not going to last long. 2012 is shaping up to be a phat year for excellent games, pandaland, notwithstanding.
If Bioware starts preparing now, they will be able ot halt the hemoraging, or, if they do real well, make the inovations in guild wars 2 seem fairly hold or not needed.
LOL...Guild Wars 2 won't cause any ToR hemorrhaging. GW2 will not be the colossus that the fanboi's thinks it will be...sorry. I think GW2 needs to fear TSW and Archeage more than ToR needs to fear GW2. People will go to ToR for their sci-fi fix while fantasy games (GW2, Archeage, Rift, WoW, etc...) are a dime a dozen.
The only thing that GW2 has going for it is B2P. With all of the resources that Anet has put into that game, I will be surprised if it doesn't end up with a huge fluff shop like all of the F2P titles have. They make too much money in today's F2P market...why wouldn't they?
surprisingly swtor is well equiped to face off wow and guild wars ,it has one feature a lot of people want in mmo but it was downplayed or not mentionned anywhere ,world raid pvp ,yep similar to what wow had.not many mentionned this but it was probably intentional they didntr mention it (cause world raid pvp can crash a server very fast)but this is a huge feature
Arenanet are based in the US. How does this make it an asian grinder?
If I recall correctly, the dev team stated that each level will take more-or-less the same amount of time as the last level. I.e. a linear increase rather than an exponential increase.
That is not to say that the game cannot be tailored to suit different cultures as the game could do this easily.
"ArcheAge is a medieval fantasy massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) in development by Korean game developer XL Games."
Tor really has little to fear in the scifi world....even Mechwarrior online doesnt seem to hold a candle, mind you little is known on that....But a game I think will kill gw2 will be wizardry online...If you dont know the series then you have missed out in your rpg schooling....
Arenanet are based in the US. How does this make it an asian grinder?
If I recall correctly, the dev team stated that each level will take more-or-less the same amount of time as the last level. I.e. a linear increase rather than an exponential increase.
That is not to say that the game cannot be tailored to suit different cultures as the game could do this easily.
"ArcheAge is a medieval fantasy massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) in development by Korean game developer XL Games."
what has arena net to do with anything O.o
Precursor aimed his reply at both GW2 and Archeage. It just got lost in the number of quotes.
surprisingly swtor is well equiped to face off wow and guild wars ,it has one feature a lot of people want in mmo but it was downplayed or not mentionned anywhere ,world raid pvp ,yep similar to what wow had.not many mentionned this but it was probably intentional they didntr mention it (cause world raid pvp can crash a server very fast)but this is a huge feature
Are you just talking about open world PvP, like illum? Or are you talking about something different?
Comments
True, the trinity wasn't "required" in D&D, because the GM could just sculpt the encounters to be something the party could deal with. But I think it definitely introduced the concept of: "The fighter is good at taking damage," "the cleric is good at healing damage," "The rogue/wizard is good at doing damage."
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I agree it laid down the roles of the classes. Video game mechanics is what locks gameplay into those roles. I'm very interested in how GW2's different mechanics in this respect work out. I always hated waiting forever for a cleric or tank to join party or being a healer-bot and not get to attack or melee. Hopefully it will be a fun system. I think we are a bit off topic, so to the OP's point. TOR doesn't need to change to "beat" GW2, just need to be the best at what they do and keep thier players happy with improvements and new content.
You said it. I think that TOR will still have a decent audience after GW2 comes out.
And even if someone has a crystal ball and knows that GW2 will destroy TOR...there's not much BW could do at this point. They are never going to be "better" at being GW2 than GW2 is. They should try to carve their own niche.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Think BW cannot compete with Arenanet till BW grow some balls to push the MMO genre to another level.
Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language
what? first time hearing about this
ugh, my hype for GW2 just took a dramatic dive
and why the fuck should they do this?
Of course you never heard about it because the OP is misinterpreting it, just like how he thinks that the only way for TOR to compete with GW2 is to become GW2. GW2 won't group you automatically for Dynamic Events, players will just be in the same area doing the same things. Lack of kill stealing removes the need for these ad hoc groups usually created in other MMOs.
This is not quite true. You do not 'autogroup'.
Any player is free to participate in the killing of any mobs, whether it be an event or not. Everyone gets xp for the kill.Xp depends on how much you participated in the event and/or kills. This includes healing etc and not just combat.
In events, mob difficulty increases depending on the number of players participating.
There is no enforced grouping, but you can group with others if you wish.
Don't know what Dontadow is talking about, but there's no auto-grouping in GW2.
I don't think TOR needs to change anything to compete with GW2, I think that TOR will stay very healthy after Guild Wars 2 releases. Having 2 high-pop MMOs to play only benefits the genre, so no need to compete with eachother.
Why shouldn't they? Do we really need the industry putting up with another year of companies churning the same sort of crap using a simialr stagnant game play model? Every years for like the past 7 years it has been same shit, different skin, and I am getting a little tired of it.
Ok the poster in here failed to consider some things when making this....
1. SWTOR Is not will not and never will be gw2, to try to make it into gw2 would be rather insulting to the ip.
2. Character classes would have to stay the same and multi class systems would not work in the tor universe as it goes against the fluff of the sw universe
3.Tor already has this, Many areas have side quest you stumble apon by killing something and finding a quest launch item or even picking up datacons can lead to quest.
4. questing in tor does not need grouping less you are trying to do heroic quest, which is just like any other sub mmo requiring you to either form social contacts or OMG type in chat lfg heroic
5. A different instance arc depending on your choices would actualy work in this as the light and dark side options could easily be done to create some interesting game play experiences however things like these generally run counter productive to loot farming, however they would also open up more loot drops per instance.
Personally I dont think bioware will ave to worry about generic wars 2 as the things you have mentioned they will have other games have and most of those games failed to sustain a possitive cash flow from the player base due to lack of intrest in these so called good ideas....If every one wanted these things in a game it would have already been made, and since experimenting with these has shown game developers that they do not pan out good for the game as a whole putting them all in one place is like dumping trash with toxic waste and a side of medical waste...Its just a bad idea.
So please stop trying to change something people obviously like so it can be more like something else.
Trying to be a little of this and a little of that in games never works out as well as a pure class....In wow a tank paladin trying to heal tends to fail.
There is a reason to have specialization classes. Cause they fit into a role of the game....If tanks could heal themself then they would lack in agro generation. If dps could also tank then they would be broken in pvp.
You sir, nailed it.
No kidding.. cant wait to see the epic QQ
Not everyone likes boring Asian grinders so those games should be fine.
Obviously, because it's Asian it must be an Asian grinder, stereotype is the way to go!
http://www.betacake.net/2011/12/29/archeage-betacakes-cbt4-review/
well that's better, i know quest are shared and everyone contributes to filling up the bar, but the auto group thing was new to me, good to hear it's wrong
I eat pizza atleast once per month, I like pizza, I enjoy pizza, I don't need some radical new revolution in the way pizzas are made
yeah, aion was also like that with no grind the first 25-30 levels, after that it took a nose dive into grindfest teritory
and yes, because it is asian it has a higher chance to be a grindfest since that's what asian players enjoy and an asian dev will look at the needs and wants of their primary playerbase first
it's why I don't go looking at japanese games when i want an RPG with a european theme, a wast world to explore, character creation and a western looking artstyle
Arenanet are based in the US. How does this make it an asian grinder?
If I recall correctly, the dev team stated that each level will take more-or-less the same amount of time as the last level. I.e. a linear increase rather than an exponential increase.
That is not to say that the game cannot be tailored to suit different cultures as the game could do this easily.
The time issue is something everyone chooses to ignore. Few of us have unlimited time to spend gaming. We need to choose what gets our limited leisure time. Because of this, the payment model is somewhat irrelevant. Some people don't mind maintaining a sub for something they aren't playing because they intend to return. But I think most of us prefer not to pay for a service we aren't using.
That being said, GW2 isn't going to be THE competition for SWTOR, just part of it. There will be other games out there that will by vying for players' time just as effectively as GW2. SWTOR needs to contend with all of them. And unlke the current state of games today, those competitors look to be very strong. SWTOR released in a bit of a vaccuum, but it's not going to last long. 2012 is shaping up to be a phat year for excellent games, pandaland, notwithstanding.
LOL...Guild Wars 2 won't cause any ToR hemorrhaging. GW2 will not be the colossus that the fanboi's thinks it will be...sorry. I think GW2 needs to fear TSW and Archeage more than ToR needs to fear GW2. People will go to ToR for their sci-fi fix while fantasy games (GW2, Archeage, Rift, WoW, etc...) are a dime a dozen.
The only thing that GW2 has going for it is B2P. With all of the resources that Anet has put into that game, I will be surprised if it doesn't end up with a huge fluff shop like all of the F2P titles have. They make too much money in today's F2P market...why wouldn't they?
surprisingly swtor is well equiped to face off wow and guild wars ,it has one feature a lot of people want in mmo but it was downplayed or not mentionned anywhere ,world raid pvp ,yep similar to what wow had.not many mentionned this but it was probably intentional they didntr mention it (cause world raid pvp can crash a server very fast)but this is a huge feature
"ArcheAge is a medieval fantasy massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) in development by Korean game developer XL Games."
what has arena net to do with anything O.o
Tor really has little to fear in the scifi world....even Mechwarrior online doesnt seem to hold a candle, mind you little is known on that....But a game I think will kill gw2 will be wizardry online...If you dont know the series then you have missed out in your rpg schooling....
Precursor aimed his reply at both GW2 and Archeage. It just got lost in the number of quotes.
Are you just talking about open world PvP, like illum? Or are you talking about something different?
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?