Originally posted by Ambros123 Originally posted by sanosukex So many people have been defending how great it is this game has no LFD tool and how great it is to build the community and everything. Now I'm talking the game needs a SAME server LFD tool here not cross server.. anyway this is what chat has become and it's what I been saying all along and why these type of games really need a same server LFD tool. I can't even hold a useful conversation with people in general chat because of this crap is spammed non -stop http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6750/swtor2012010919254110.png
Peope are quick to blame the degregation of an MMO community on something like an LFD tool which is totally unsupported. The tool did NOTHING to the degregation of the community, it was the community itself that did it.
The more people you have and the more open the general chat is, the more likely you are to see things that you don't like. That's true everywhere. Once people had access to the internet and could talk to people that didn't live anywhere near them, they saw things they didn't like. Just accept the fact that there are 7 Billion people in the world and you probably don't really want to talk to 99% of them. Then ignore them.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
so you are going to sit there and tell me because someone took the time to spam LFG for 30 min they are going ot be a better quality player than someone you got lumped together with a LFD tool.. it doesn't work this way sorry if that doesn't fit with your psychological analysis but I'm not sure in which reality spamming LFG requires any "effort" whatsoever. These games are designed like single player games nowadays with some group related features thrown in. If developers really want a strong community they need to develop a more group based games with some single player elements thrown in. Problem is by doing this you will end up with less overall players and in turn less money so no developer is going to do this nowadays.
Listen, getting a group with LFD is effortless, quick, and automatic. You click a button, and wait a short while. Getting a group without LFD takes time and effort. You have to constantly send messages to see if anyone is interested in playing with you.
When you use the LFD tool, there is no need to communicate because forming a group is automatic, and there is no need to invest yourself to the group, as you can easily and quickly leave and join another one. What do I mean by investing yourself to the group? I mean that you don't have to worry about teaching others how to play, you don't have to worry about giving tips, you don't have to deal with anyone that you think will somehow hamper your progress. You can simply join another group. Maintaining the group is the least of your preocupations.
When you do not have the LFD tool, you need to communicate because forming a group is not automatic. There is a need to invest yourself to the group because finding another one takes effort and is usually not quick. You learn to appreciate the people you group up with because it is something that takes effort and time to establish. You more easily accept newcomers as finding someone else to fill that newcomer's spot takes time. You become more patient not only because it takes time to form a group, but also because it takes time to get everyone adjusted into playing as a group. You feel more accomplished at the end and you are more likely to get to know the people you play with because you actually had to talk to them to form and maintain the group.
I agree. I vote NO to automatized LFG tools. As tempting as it looks to save time, it's only another step away from being a sociable human being.
I want a LFD tool because I'm lazy for one and I hate reading the GC, it's just so middle school most of the time. I'm not looking for advanced degree type of conversation but non stop dick and fart jokes is just dumb.
I want a LFD tool because I'm lazy for one and I hate reading the GC, it's just so middle school most of the time. I'm not looking for advanced degree type of conversation but non stop dick and fart jokes is just dumb.
Selective reading is not always a sign of degeneration. Master it and use it in your advantage!
there are complaints about so many people shouting they are looking for a group... and then someone comes to the brilliant conclusion that they need a tool.... for what? wasn't it obvious that there where people looking for groups?
i guess that everybody wants to be a "leader" of his won "group"...
seems to me that everybody wants to be boss. no tool is going to fix that.
Originally posted by Arpat funny... there are complaints about so many people shouting they are looking for a group... and then someone comes to the brilliant conclusion that they need a tool.... for what? wasn't it obvious that there where people looking for groups? i guess that everybody wants to be a "leader" of his won "group"... seems to me that everybody wants to be boss. no tool is going to fix that.
At this point in time I see many people in Global Chat asking for groups being a good thing. It means there are a lot of people and they want to do the group content. I would certainly rather see the LFG chat than the an@l jokes.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The more people you have and the more open the general chat is, the more likely you are to see things that you don't like. That's true everywhere. Once people had access to the internet and could talk to people that didn't live anywhere near them, they saw things they didn't like. Just accept the fact that there are 7 Billion people in the world and you probably don't really want to talk to 99% of them. Then ignore them.
Very true. I remember my days of EQ fondly, as well, but people have to remember that those early MMOs that set the benchmark for in-game communities were coming out at a time when many North American households were still pretty new to owning home computers. People were still a bit enamored with being able to communicate instantly with strangers from all over the world. It was the era of AOL and IRC, and early MMO game design left players with quite a bit of downtime to fill with idle conversation. Now we've all had 10-20 years of experience showing that, just like in the real world (and even more so, thanks to anonymity), many people online act too obnoxious to bother with if we don't have to. On top of that, most players would agree that, even if they do want more of a challenge, they wouldn't want to return to a game with all that downtime. With little downtime and most people unwilling to socialize for the sake of socializing, it's possibly we just may never see another MMO with those types of communities.
Click the Social icon at the top of the screen, then click the Who tab at the bottom of the window that appears. Flag yourself as LFG and add a comment if you want.
If you're forming a group, follow the same procedure and use the very handy search function to list whatever class/location/level/whatever else you're looking for.
There is a pretty solid LFG system there already - you can't really blame Bioware if no-one is using it and would rather spam "LFG" for an hour.
Except for the glaring fact that it's no global...
Well it is global in the sence you will have to type search every friggin zone.
No, it IS global.
See that seach box at the top of the /who window? Type in the class or level you're looking for and it'll give you a list of all the characters that match, no matter which zone they're in. You can even right click on people in the list and either invite them directly or send a tell to ask them.
I'm pretty sure LFD tool does nothing but kill a community.
how do you figure? and how does this nonstop LFG spam help it?
I don't understand why people think that spamming chat channel builds a community, if anything it annoys people and they turn chat right off and ignore the community all together as it's nothing but an annoyance and mitigates the entire point of a "chat" channel.
OK i spammed the living chit out of the chat channel for the past 10 minutes along with a hundred other players all asking for the exact same quest. Yeah real community building going on there.
Meanwhile a person who asks a question which would probably start a conversation you know where people "chat" goes completely ignored as no one noticed it through all the spam.
as i said... people are all spamming the chat that they want to do a run on something. but no-one bothers to JOIN another player. what good could a tool do if you only shout "come to me" instead of joining someone else who asks the same?
It doesn't have to be an lfd tool. Just something...anything...to fucking help people trying to form groups would be nice. They made no effort at all in this area.
...and they're going to lose subs over this stupidity. I swear to god these companies never, ever, learn.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Anyone who is seriously trying to defend the lack of a tool that has been a positive staple in countless MMO's before it needs to check into a rehab and detox from the kool-aid. It doesn't build community, it's just lazy on the part of the devs and they are trying to spin it into some sort of absurd notion to try to justify or cover it up. This is right up there (almost) with FFXIV trying to defend their lack of an Auction House when they practically invented the mechanic in FFXI and it went on to be one of those MMO staples we expect in a modern game.
I acknowledge, sanosuke, that the constant spamming on General chat is far from ideal. Yet, going to extremes and implementing an LFD tool I believe is not the best solution. What I would suggest is that BioWare builds upon their current LFG system in order to make it more robust and reliable. Currently, you can flag yourself as Looking for Group , but you can't flag yourself as Looking for More. Being able to flag yourself or your semi-complete group as Looking for More is important because the people looking to join do not need to wait for an invite, they can simply apply to your group. This system is used quite successfully used in a game called Dungeons and Dragons Online, and I think it strikes the perfect balance between convenience and sociality.
It doesn't have to be an lfd tool. Just something...anything...to fucking help people trying to form groups would be nice. They made no effort at all in this area.
...and they're going to lose subs over this stupidity. I swear to god these companies never, ever, learn.
Anyone who is seriously trying to defend the lack of a tool that has been a positive staple in countless MMO's before it needs to check into a rehab and detox from the kool-aid. It doesn't build community, it's just lazy on the part of the devs and they are trying to spin it into some sort of absurd notion to try to justify or cover it up. This is right up there (almost) with FFXIV trying to defend their lack of an Auction House when they practically invented the mechanic in FFXI and it went on to be one of those MMO staples we expect in a modern game.
I honestly can care less either way as long as it isn't cross server. But arguements like these are idiotic. Because someone differs on your opinion they should 'detox from the kool-aid'? Why? Because you have been sitting at their monitor and know EXACTLY what they have experienced? Maybe someone has experienced where it does build a community? In fact, some of my better gaming was done when there wasn't much of a looking for dungeon system that was more different than what is in SWTOR. But I guess since it was my own personal experience it means little because your own is what matters?
In any case, doens't matter much to me if they do it but if they do then it needs to be same server and none of that instant teleport to the dungeon. Get there on your own. Yes, we all are busy. I work, have three kids and a wife and still rather take the moment to get my tail where I need then instant transporting all the time.
As for the OP's image, it varies from community to community. Where you have that, my general chat is full of idiotic talk about everything under the sun. I would rather your spam then the drivel I have had to read day in and day out that reminds me too much of the WoW chat I endured so much of. So it really is not that way everywhere. Just like someone else posted in their 9-10 SWTOR groups there has been no socialization. Mine has been the opposite. We have socialized, added each other to our friends list and a lot of it had to do with us talking in general chat and getting to know each other in that channel (guess in part to drown out the idiot griefers/trolls in it too) before we grouped up to tackle a heroic then flashpoint.
Originally posted by stealthbr I acknowledge, sanosuke, that the constant spamming on General chat is far from ideal. Yet, going to extremes and implementing an LFD tool I believe is not the ideal solution. What I would suggest is that BioWare builds upon their current LFG system in order to make it more robust and reliable. Currently, you can flag yourself as Looking for Group , but you can't flag yourself as Looking for More. Being able to flag yourself or your semi-complete group as Looking for More is important because the people looking to join do not need to wait for an invite, they can simply apply to your group. This system is used quite successfully in a game called Dungeons and Dragons Online, and I think it strikes the perfect balance between convenience and sociality.
Actually, that wouldn't be bad. Just have a system where you can flag yourself available, or apply to groups and labels for the content (quests or flash points) you're wanting to do. The content generally has a level associated with it so it should be pretty easy to filter what's available. You can even have it pick from your current mission log.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I acknowledge, sanosuke, that the constant spamming on General chat is far from ideal. Yet, going to extremes and implementing an LFD tool I believe is not the ideal solution. What I would suggest is that BioWare builds upon their current LFG system in order to make it more robust and reliable. Currently, you can flag yourself as Looking for Group , but you can't flag yourself as Looking for More. Being able to flag yourself or your semi-complete group as Looking for More is important because the people looking to join do not need to wait for an invite, they can simply apply to your group. This system is used quite successfully in a game called Dungeons and Dragons Online, and I think it strikes the perfect balance between convenience and sociality.
Actually, that wouldn't be bad. Just have a system where you can flag yourself available, or apply to groups and labels for the content (quests or flash points) you're wanting to do. The content generally has a level associated with it so it should be pretty easy to filter what's available. You can even have it pick from your current mission log.
Yeah if a game absolutely need lfg tool ,then DDO-like is way to go.
It is not automatic-cross-server-crap and does not agaik teleport but at same time is very useful, easy to use and eliminate spamming of chats.
I wouldn't mind a LFD as long as its not cross server.
the problem with MMOs right now is not many like playing tanks or healers, because they are usually the first to get berated by the "l33t" Dpsers who go full out just as the tank pulls. only the very dedicated will play healers or tanks. thankfully my little group has both (me as healer my cousin as the tank) so if we get a mouthy DPSer we just boot him on his/her whine.
I acknowledge, sanosuke, that the constant spamming on General chat is far from ideal. Yet, going to extremes and implementing an LFD tool I believe is not the ideal solution. What I would suggest is that BioWare builds upon their current LFG system in order to make it more robust and reliable. Currently, you can flag yourself as Looking for Group , but you can't flag yourself as Looking for More. Being able to flag yourself or your semi-complete group as Looking for More is important because the people looking to join do not need to wait for an invite, they can simply apply to your group. This system is used quite successfully in a game called Dungeons and Dragons Online, and I think it strikes the perfect balance between convenience and sociality.
Actually, that wouldn't be bad. Just have a system where you can flag yourself available, or apply to groups and labels for the content (quests or flash points) you're wanting to do. The content generally has a level associated with it so it should be pretty easy to filter what's available. You can even have it pick from your current mission log.
Yeah if a game absolutely need lfg tool ,then DDO-like is way to go.
It is not automatic-cross-server-crap and does not agaik teleport but at same time is very useful, easy to use and eliminate spamming of chats.
It also allows notes like in DDO you can put down ZERG grp which in SWTOR people will be keen on getting grps who are skipping the dialogue convos.
It doesn't have to be an lfd tool. Just something...anything...to fucking help people trying to form groups would be nice. They made no effort at all in this area.
...and they're going to lose subs over this stupidity. I swear to god these companies never, ever, learn.
There is a pretty decent tool for forming groups.
I bet you haven't even looked for it.
I have Sherlock. Problem is no one uses it and it is crap anyways.
Nice try though.
Anyways, as others suggested something like DDO has would be perfect imo.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
It's not bioware's fault they put all the flashpoints in the same zon.... wait...
Also on topic LFD tools are fine as long as they anrt cross server. The community little more each time a dev adds feature that allow for further anonymity and independence from other players.
Acually they didn't. Every planet has a flashpoint shuttle and quest giver for that level's flashpoint. I never sit around the space station looking for a group I put my lfg flag on with notes and level on the planet. If I see something in General I want to join I'll send them a tell or if I really want to do some group content I might send out a LFG message or two.
It doesn't have to be an lfd tool. Just something...anything...to fucking help people trying to form groups would be nice. They made no effort at all in this area.
...and they're going to lose subs over this stupidity. I swear to god these companies never, ever, learn.
There is a pretty decent tool for forming groups.
I bet you haven't even looked for it.
I have Sherlock. Problem is no one uses it and it is crap anyways.
Nice try though.
Anyways, as others suggested something like DDO has would be perfect imo.
"Crap"? Really. It's almost identical to what EQ2 and WoW had for years before adding autojoining tools. It works fine for me.
Would a autocreating tool be more convinent? I'm sure it would but what is there is far from crap.
Comments
The more people you have and the more open the general chat is, the more likely you are to see things that you don't like. That's true everywhere. Once people had access to the internet and could talk to people that didn't live anywhere near them, they saw things they didn't like. Just accept the fact that there are 7 Billion people in the world and you probably don't really want to talk to 99% of them. Then ignore them.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I agree. I vote NO to automatized LFG tools. As tempting as it looks to save time, it's only another step away from being a sociable human being.
I want a LFD tool because I'm lazy for one and I hate reading the GC, it's just so middle school most of the time. I'm not looking for advanced degree type of conversation but non stop dick and fart jokes is just dumb.
Healers are more in demand.
Selective reading is not always a sign of degeneration. Master it and use it in your advantage!
funny...
there are complaints about so many people shouting they are looking for a group... and then someone comes to the brilliant conclusion that they need a tool.... for what? wasn't it obvious that there where people looking for groups?
i guess that everybody wants to be a "leader" of his won "group"...
seems to me that everybody wants to be boss. no tool is going to fix that.
At this point in time I see many people in Global Chat asking for groups being a good thing. It means there are a lot of people and they want to do the group content. I would certainly rather see the LFG chat than the an@l jokes.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Very true. I remember my days of EQ fondly, as well, but people have to remember that those early MMOs that set the benchmark for in-game communities were coming out at a time when many North American households were still pretty new to owning home computers. People were still a bit enamored with being able to communicate instantly with strangers from all over the world. It was the era of AOL and IRC, and early MMO game design left players with quite a bit of downtime to fill with idle conversation. Now we've all had 10-20 years of experience showing that, just like in the real world (and even more so, thanks to anonymity), many people online act too obnoxious to bother with if we don't have to. On top of that, most players would agree that, even if they do want more of a challenge, they wouldn't want to return to a game with all that downtime. With little downtime and most people unwilling to socialize for the sake of socializing, it's possibly we just may never see another MMO with those types of communities.
with all that lfg spam hpow is someone supposed to sell garbage loot to unsuspecting noobs for outrageous amounts of currency?
No, it IS global.
See that seach box at the top of the /who window? Type in the class or level you're looking for and it'll give you a list of all the characters that match, no matter which zone they're in. You can even right click on people in the list and either invite them directly or send a tell to ask them.
I don't understand why people think that spamming chat channel builds a community, if anything it annoys people and they turn chat right off and ignore the community all together as it's nothing but an annoyance and mitigates the entire point of a "chat" channel.
OK i spammed the living chit out of the chat channel for the past 10 minutes along with a hundred other players all asking for the exact same quest. Yeah real community building going on there.
Meanwhile a person who asks a question which would probably start a conversation you know where people "chat" goes completely ignored as no one noticed it through all the spam.
as i said... people are all spamming the chat that they want to do a run on something. but no-one bothers to JOIN another player. what good could a tool do if you only shout "come to me" instead of joining someone else who asks the same?
i really don't understand that...
It doesn't have to be an lfd tool. Just something...anything...to fucking help people trying to form groups would be nice. They made no effort at all in this area.
...and they're going to lose subs over this stupidity. I swear to god these companies never, ever, learn.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Anyone who is seriously trying to defend the lack of a tool that has been a positive staple in countless MMO's before it needs to check into a rehab and detox from the kool-aid. It doesn't build community, it's just lazy on the part of the devs and they are trying to spin it into some sort of absurd notion to try to justify or cover it up. This is right up there (almost) with FFXIV trying to defend their lack of an Auction House when they practically invented the mechanic in FFXI and it went on to be one of those MMO staples we expect in a modern game.
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I acknowledge, sanosuke, that the constant spamming on General chat is far from ideal. Yet, going to extremes and implementing an LFD tool I believe is not the best solution. What I would suggest is that BioWare builds upon their current LFG system in order to make it more robust and reliable. Currently, you can flag yourself as Looking for Group , but you can't flag yourself as Looking for More. Being able to flag yourself or your semi-complete group as Looking for More is important because the people looking to join do not need to wait for an invite, they can simply apply to your group. This system is used quite successfully used in a game called Dungeons and Dragons Online, and I think it strikes the perfect balance between convenience and sociality.
There is a pretty decent tool for forming groups.
I bet you haven't even looked for it.
I honestly can care less either way as long as it isn't cross server. But arguements like these are idiotic. Because someone differs on your opinion they should 'detox from the kool-aid'? Why? Because you have been sitting at their monitor and know EXACTLY what they have experienced? Maybe someone has experienced where it does build a community? In fact, some of my better gaming was done when there wasn't much of a looking for dungeon system that was more different than what is in SWTOR. But I guess since it was my own personal experience it means little because your own is what matters?
In any case, doens't matter much to me if they do it but if they do then it needs to be same server and none of that instant teleport to the dungeon. Get there on your own. Yes, we all are busy. I work, have three kids and a wife and still rather take the moment to get my tail where I need then instant transporting all the time.
As for the OP's image, it varies from community to community. Where you have that, my general chat is full of idiotic talk about everything under the sun. I would rather your spam then the drivel I have had to read day in and day out that reminds me too much of the WoW chat I endured so much of. So it really is not that way everywhere. Just like someone else posted in their 9-10 SWTOR groups there has been no socialization. Mine has been the opposite. We have socialized, added each other to our friends list and a lot of it had to do with us talking in general chat and getting to know each other in that channel (guess in part to drown out the idiot griefers/trolls in it too) before we grouped up to tackle a heroic then flashpoint.
In other words...YMMV.
Actually, that wouldn't be bad. Just have a system where you can flag yourself available, or apply to groups and labels for the content (quests or flash points) you're wanting to do. The content generally has a level associated with it so it should be pretty easy to filter what's available. You can even have it pick from your current mission log.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Yeah if a game absolutely need lfg tool ,then DDO-like is way to go.
It is not automatic-cross-server-crap and does not agaik teleport but at same time is very useful, easy to use and eliminate spamming of chats.
I wouldn't mind a LFD as long as its not cross server.
the problem with MMOs right now is not many like playing tanks or healers, because they are usually the first to get berated by the "l33t" Dpsers who go full out just as the tank pulls. only the very dedicated will play healers or tanks. thankfully my little group has both (me as healer my cousin as the tank) so if we get a mouthy DPSer we just boot him on his/her whine.
It also allows notes like in DDO you can put down ZERG grp which in SWTOR people will be keen on getting grps who are skipping the dialogue convos.
Well, you spoiled brats.
I have Sherlock. Problem is no one uses it and it is crap anyways.
Nice try though.
Anyways, as others suggested something like DDO has would be perfect imo.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Acually they didn't. Every planet has a flashpoint shuttle and quest giver for that level's flashpoint. I never sit around the space station looking for a group I put my lfg flag on with notes and level on the planet. If I see something in General I want to join I'll send them a tell or if I really want to do some group content I might send out a LFG message or two.
"Crap"? Really. It's almost identical to what EQ2 and WoW had for years before adding autojoining tools. It works fine for me.
Would a autocreating tool be more convinent? I'm sure it would but what is there is far from crap.