Why? Because it has stuff that doesn't intersest YOU? I mean if that's the case, of course, it's dumb! /eyeroll
Just because 1 game has certain features does not mean every other game has to follow suit with same said features.
When those features are quality features that enhance gameplay, then yes it's a loss if game X doesn't have game Y's features. Also, they set out to and successfully made a WoW clone; when didn't they go all the way and copy everything? Looks like BW did a half-arsed job.
Your own personal wish lists has no place in a discussion here or anywhere else.
Neither does yours. Because you think something is enjoyable or acceptable doesn't make that the reality of everyone else. I'm sure there is some schmuck who LOVES the movie Gigli... doesn't make Gigli a good movie by any stretch.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I liked that he invoked the fanboi argument of, "Well there's haters out there who want to see us fail no matter what!"
Attention: James Ohlen, no there aren't.
Yes there are...
Taken from this very forum...
""i hope it fails because if it is a success we will see cinematic story in every mmo from now until bloody 2020."" I highly doubt this guy is alone in this opinion.
How do you end up going out of your way to search for a quote, copy/paste it and completely miscomprehend it?
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I liked that he invoked the fanboi argument of, "Well there's haters out there who want to see us fail no matter what!"
Attention: James Ohlen, no there aren't.
Yes there are...
Taken from this very forum...
""i hope it fails because if it is a success we will see cinematic story in every mmo from now until bloody 2020."" I highly doubt this guy is alone in this opinion.
How do you end up going out of your way to search for a quote, copy/paste it and completely miscomprehend it?
What? ... you said "no there aren't", all I showed was there are people who want to see it fail, there have been many posters who have said as much.
I didn't go out of my way, I had just read that post 5 secs before I read yours. Still how am I miscomprehending this post?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Third party addons - Should have been supported on release
Minigames like card games or slot gamers - fluff
Dual spec- Should have been supported on release
Day/night cycles - fluff
Non humanoid based playable races - fluff - just causes armor issues even wow is all humanoid
Planetary housing - fluff
Housing furnishing - fluff
Animal based pet classes - fluff
Resources for crafting that do have quality - themeparks aren't about crafting
Complex crafting system - fluff
Guild leveling system - can wait for expansion
Animal mounts - fluff
Flying mounts - not gonna happen - this game is made up of planets, not continents like WOW
PvP Arenas- please no
Collision detection between characters - causes griefing at doors and performance issues
Macros- Should have been supported on release
Barber / Image Designer - can wait for expansion
Appearance tabs- Should have been better supported on release
Fishing - fluff
Guild "Tabard" - fluff
Multiplayer mounts - fluff
Gear Dyes - fluff/can wait for expansion
Shared storage bank slots - fluff
In game voice chat - low priority - guilds can use better software
LFG tool - Should have been supported on release
Guild bank - Should have been supported on release
Incentives for socialization - huh?
Character extended body customization- huh?
3 Factions RvR - waste of resources
Wolrd PvP- Ilum should have been better on release
RPG tools - fluff
Underwater content - fluff
3d exploration- huh?
I don't think anything on that list is innovative and most of it is just a waste of resources. The items in red are the ones I think should have been addressed on release of a wow clone or themepark mmo.
Looking at that list again, I'd love for someone to explain where there is a natural third faction in Star Wars for there to even justify three faction RvR.
This isn't Dark Age of Camelot. It's Star Wars. It's been the Empire vs. the Republic since 1977. Where is the third faction?
Third party addons - Should have been supported on release
Minigames like card games or slot gamers - fluff
Dual spec- Should have been supported on release
Day/night cycles - fluff
Non humanoid based playable races - fluff - just causes armor issues even wow is all humanoid
Planetary housing - fluff
Housing furnishing - fluff
Animal based pet classes - fluff
Resources for crafting that do have quality - themeparks aren't about crafting
Complex crafting system - fluff
Guild leveling system - can wait for expansion
Animal mounts - fluff
Flying mounts - not gonna happen - this game is made up of planets, not continents like WOW
PvP Arenas- please no
Collision detection between characters - causes griefing at doors and performance issues
Macros- Should have been supported on release
Barber / Image Designer - can wait for expansion
Appearance tabs- Should have been better supported on release
Fishing - fluff
Guild "Tabard" - fluff
Multiplayer mounts - fluff
Gear Dyes - fluff/can wait for expansion
Shared storage bank slots - fluff
In game voice chat - low priority - guilds can use better software
LFG tool - Should have been supported on release
Guild bank - Should have been supported on release
Incentives for socialization - huh?
Character extended body customization- huh?
3 Factions RvR - waste of resources
Wolrd PvP- Ilum should have been better on release
RPG tools - fluff
Underwater content - fluff
3d exploration- huh?
I don't think anything on that list is innovative and most of it is just a waste of resources. The items in red are the ones I think should have been addressed on release of a wow clone or themepark mmo.
fluff or not MMO gamers these days expect most of it and are going to complain about this stuff and I bet you most of this is going to get added in one form or another such as how the LFG tool is getting added soon. Instead now they have to put time and resources into adding a lot of that stuff when I feel most, considering there budget and time spent on game, could of been in at launch. Now we could be expecting just content and new features which I'm sure well get but it's still less resources they are using on content they'll be using on fluff as you call it.
Originally posted by pharazonic Originally posted by Lidane The point is, can you realistically look at the popular image of Star Wars and see that third faction? No. You can't. It has always been Empire vs. Republic and Jedi vs. Sith from the start. That's not going to change because some people want a Star Wars version of DAoC with three faction RvR.
Wrong. You definitely can. The Empire, the Republic and a Mercenary "wildcard" faction. In fact it's unrealistic and senseless for a GALAXY to have only 2 major factions.
As for lore, as I stated, it only supports my arguments. Your reasoning makes no sense whatsoever -- besides, this is ~3000 years in the past; of course things are going to be different and in-game events don't have to correspond perfectly with the canon stuff because remember: victors write histories.
I'm sorry but if you are going to suggest mercenary as a faction that wouldn't work. By defenition a mercenary is a gun for hire in which case they would work for the republic or empire thus leading you back to 2 factions not three. You would've had a better chance with Mandalorians or Hutts you could atleast have a little something to argue for a third faction with those 2.
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by Lidane
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Lidane
Looking at that list again, I'd love for someone to explain where there is a natural third faction in Star Wars for there to even justify three faction RvR. This isn't Dark Age of Camelot. It's Star Wars. It's been the Empire vs. the Republic since 1977. Where is the third faction?
There are other factions such as a neutral crime faction, large groups like the Black Sun, Mando's.. etc.. The problem is none of them would fit in with how they've implemented the mirror class system. Three factions would require a completely different philosophy in this area. The point is, can you realistically look at the popular image of Star Wars and see that third faction? No. You can't. It has always been Empire vs. Republic and Jedi vs. Sith from the start. That's not going to change because some people want a Star Wars version of DAoC with three faction RvR. The Hutts?
They aren't a major player. The empire routinely demolishes entire planets. The Republic rebuilds entire planets. The Hutts traffic in stolen goods. If they really got out of hand, they wouldn't last more than a day or so against either the Republic or the Empire. None of the 'neutral' factions would last very long really.
I think a third, neutral faction where the criminal players can take either Republic or Empire missions would work. I don't think that would make sense in a PvP context though. The neutrals should have to pick a side at some point for PvP.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Why? Because it has stuff that doesn't intersest YOU? I mean if that's the case, of course, it's dumb! /eyeroll
Just because 1 game has certain features does not mean every other game has to follow suit with same said features.
When those features are quality features that enhance gameplay, then yes it's a loss if game X doesn't have game Y's features. Also, they set out to and successfully made a WoW clone; when didn't they go all the way and copy everything? Looks like BW did a half-arsed job.
Your own personal wish lists has no place in a discussion here or anywhere else.
Neither does yours. Because you think something is enjoyable or acceptable doesn't make that the reality of everyone else. I'm sure there is some schmuck who LOVES the movie Gigli... doesn't make Gigli a good movie by any stretch.
Your reply is pretty much on par with the OPs list as far as I'm concerned
1. You are not entitled to anything regardless of what you find to be quality feature which by the way is your own personal preference.
2. I didn't make a list of things a game must have rendering your point moot.
3. Arguing personal taste is like competing in the special olympics.. I'm sure you know the rest.
The difference between people like you and people like me is, if I don't like a game then I move on. I don't expect a game to cater to my wims and wishes. I'm fully aware a game company can design a game just like they want to be played just like they want. I'm also pretty sure gamers such as yourself can play something else If they don't think the product is satisfactory. I say again. You are entitled to squat when it comes to features. Play a game that has those features and avoid those that doesn't. There is no law or thumb rule out there written in stone a game must have this or that to be accepted. It may be that way with you personally but you do not speak for anybody but yourself.
They aren't a major player. The empire routinely demolishes entire planets. The Republic rebuilds entire planets. The Hutts traffic in stolen goods. If they really got out of hand, they wouldn't last more than a day or so against either the Republic or the Empire. None of the 'neutral' factions would last very long really.
I think a third, neutral faction where the criminal players can take either Republic or Empire missions would work. I don't think that would make sense in a PvP context though. The neutrals should have to pick a side at some point for PvP.
I agree for the most part, as far as Hutts aren't major players not so sure about that, they just don't get involved nor do the others really interfere with their affairs.
Overall though that would be the best fit, it's basically how the factions were implemented into SWG. It worked really well when group TEFS were in effect, as a merc could group with either side and help out.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Referring to TOR as innovative is like calling my latest bowel movement "Lawlmonsters' most creative poop".
I was on the phone with a client and kinda laughed in their face after reading this. The call was about a claim and the lady was like why are you laughing....Thanks for the laugh and thx for prob getting me fired ;/
CPU-HP Omen 17.3" Laptop i7 12 GB AMD Radeon RX580 1 TB Hard Drive
Lets be honest here. Most of the stuff mentioned there is from games that are 3-7 years old. And some of it was there in release, some of it was not. This game is just coming up on one month. I love how they are expected to have everything every game has had prior to their game. Perhaps, they just flat out didn't want some of that in there? Perhaps it didn't fit. Or perhaps, they just didn't have time to add it yet.
I think with this game, they wanted to get it working well, and have as smooth of a release as they could. Some of the shit really isn't needed right now, other stuff, I could probably use right now.
We all know these games are a work in progress. My opinion is that they have a hell of a good game for a starter. My hope is that things will only get better from here. However, I'm no fanboy. Should the time come where I'm no longer having fun.. I'm out.
Of course nothing makes absolutely no sense. There is no point in pointing out flaws. People just want KOTOR 3 with co op mode and will settle for it. Will they resub? who knows.
Being innovative in desinging a game is like day and night compared to what TOR has done. and we all know that TOR has no day and night cycle.
If cut scenes and fully voiced story, the companion system, the holo-communication system, reactive animations in combat, etc.. are not innovations for an MMO (a different way, or method)< (one definition of "innovation") none of what the OP pointed out are either, nor are day and night cycles. Innovation has more than one meaning, especially in game development.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Lets be honest here. Most of the stuff mentioned there is from games that are 3-7 years old. And some of it was there in release, some of it was not. This game is just coming up on one month. I love how they are expected to have everything every game has had prior to their game. Perhaps, they just flat out didn't want some of that in there? Perhaps it didn't fit. Or perhaps, they just didn't have time to add it yet.
I think with this game, they wanted to get it working well, and have as smooth of a release as they could. Some of the shit really isn't needed right now, other stuff, I could probably use right now.
We all know these games are a work in progress. My opinion is that they have a hell of a good game for a starter. My hope is that things will only get better from here. However, I'm no fanboy. Should the time come where I'm no longer having fun.. I'm out.
i like how people come up with this argument all the time.. thing is a lot of these can be considered fluff or I call them conveinence features or things that are added to games to make them either more fun for people or in some cases more accessable..
I like to use the cell phone analogy in 2000 a company releases a cell phone with a whole slew of new features such as wifi, gps, 3g, voice dialing, web browser, camera, speakerphone, media player, movable icons, and some others
now come 2012 a huge company releases there first new cell phone to the market it includes the worlds first 3d projector on a cell phone and also includes your basic features such as wifi, 3g, gps, speakerphone. But the phone does not include a camera, web browser, movable icons, you can't change the wallpaper now are those last features necessary for the function of the phone? no but are people going to be pissed they are not included? yes they are you expect companies to learn and use the best of the best from the past why should we not expect any differen't here?
Swimming - it's just lazy not having it. All the water in SWTOR is ankle deep. I mean come on EQ had kedge keep, Rift had some underwater caves and underwater puzzles, WoW had some fun swimming in booty bay etc.
Third party addons - these can be good and bad. DPS meters help the players improve but they also leave no place for bad players to hide.
Minigames like card games or slot gamers - Pazaak is coming I guess. Pod or speeder racing would be cool too.
Dual spec - why not?
Day/night cycles - sure.
Non humanoid based playable races -Seriously it's star wars. SWG had 10 races including Trandoshan, Bothan, etc.
Planetary housing - SWG, LOTRO, DAOC it's a very social and enjoyable feature.
Housing furnishing - you would need housing for this.
Animal based pet classes - Creature handler. This got replaced with companions.
Resources for crafting that do have quality - SWG had awesome crafting.
Complex crafting system - While having your companions make everything is conveient it's not exactly engaging.
Guild leveling system - why not.
Animal mounts - Dewbacks, Tauntauns.
Flying mounts - JETPACK! nuff said.
PvP Arenas - more warzones would be nice too, along with being able to pick what ones you want to play.
Collision detection between characters - not needed but does add some realism and depending on how it's done can be used to grief.
Macros - should be standard.
Barber / Image Designer - SWG and WoW have this it's not rocket science, good fluff feature.
Appearance tabs - like LOTRO
Fishing - SWG, WoW, EQ it gives you something else to do.
Guild "Tabard" - would have been better described as a guild logo. Maybe with some banners but hey they don't have housing or armor that would display your guild logo.
Multiplayer mounts - yes.
Gear Dyes -yes.
Shared storage bank slots -yes
In game voice chat - who cares
LFG tool - oh you know this is coming.
Guild bank - yes.
Incentives for socialization
Character extended body customization - what 3 body types isn't a plenthora?
3 Factions RvR - Rebels, Empire, Freelance. They even had 3 factions for space in SWG. X-wings, Tie fighters, Milenium Falcon. Smugglers and bounty hunters were freelance...
Wolrd PvP - What you mean ilum with it's trade clicking daily isn't mind blowing enough?
RPG tools
Underwater content - kinda goes with swimming.
3d exploration - you have to jump for some datacrons!
Really a lot of the stuff that should be in this game that didn't make it or is being added due to huge demand you have to question why with the huge budget and time they had did not get done.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Now about innovation may I lecture you about some of the things that are missing in TOR:
Swimming
Third party addons
Minigames like card games or slot gamers
Dual spec
Day/night cycles
Non humanoid based playable races
Planetary housing
Housing furnishing
Animal based pet classes
Resources for crafting that do have quality
Complex crafting system
Guild leveling system
Animal mounts
Flying mounts
PvP Arenas
Collision detection between characters
Macros
Barber / Image Designer
Appearance tabs
Fishing
Guild "Tabard"
Multiplayer mounts
Gear Dyes
Shared storage bank slots
In game voice chat
LFG tool
Guild bank
Incentives for socialization
Character extended body customization
3 Factions RvR
Wolrd PvP
RPG tools
Underwater content
3d exploration
Really? Every one of these threads i read sound like people just want world of warcraft...
The highlighted red text in my opionion either has
1. No place in a starwars universe
2. Sounds like it should be there just because wow has it.
Fully Support the Implementation of the green text,
A barbershop allows you to change how your character actually looks after creation. Any game that supports dyes and appearance tabs should support changing your characters appearance down the line.
Lets be honest here. Most of the stuff mentioned there is from games that are 3-7 years old. And some of it was there in release, some of it was not. This game is just coming up on one month. I love how they are expected to have everything every game has had prior to their game. Perhaps, they just flat out didn't want some of that in there? Perhaps it didn't fit. Or perhaps, they just didn't have time to add it yet.
I think with this game, they wanted to get it working well, and have as smooth of a release as they could. Some of the shit really isn't needed right now, other stuff, I could probably use right now.
We all know these games are a work in progress. My opinion is that they have a hell of a good game for a starter. My hope is that things will only get better from here. However, I'm no fanboy. Should the time come where I'm no longer having fun.. I'm out.
i like how people come up with this argument all the time.. thing is a lot of these can be considered fluff or I call them conveinence features or things that are added to games to make them either more fun for people or in some cases more accessable..
I like to use the cell phone analogy in 2000 a company releases a cell phone with a whole slew of new features such as wifi, gps, 3g, voice dialing, web browser, camera, speakerphone, media player, movable icons, and some others
now come 2012 a huge company releases there first new cell phone to the market it includes the worlds first 3d projector on a cell phone and also includes your basic features such as wifi, 3g, gps, speakerphone. But the phone does not include a camera, web browser, movable icons, you can't change the wallpaper now are those last features necessary for the function of the phone? no but are people going to be pissed they are not included? yes they are you expect companies to learn and use the best of the best from the past why should we not expect any differen't here?
Bad analogy to use though... we aren't talking hardware.. because hardware continues to advance, while gameplay is subjective and dependant on genre, focus, etc.
Also, launch populations and the early game is much different from an MMOs aged population. We are not all alike, and we all play the game differently, so where you might see a major flaw, I might not see one at all.
Long story short, there are a lot of features that SHOULD be there... in fact, one feature that really shouldn't be there right now but is there, is the legacy system... I'm in love with the prospects of it, but angry that its little more than an alternate XP bar with a last name option. Guild features like a guild bank only makes sense when hoarding materials, but the capital ship will be the great achievement in the guild system.
An early game LFD tool that ports people, or uses cross server queues breaks apart the community and shouldn't be something used in an early MMO... but might be nice when populations die down across all servers.
I like to use the cell phone analogy in 2000 a company releases a cell phone with a whole slew of new features such as wifi, gps, 3g, voice dialing, web browser, camera, speakerphone, media player, movable icons, and some others
now come 2012 a huge company releases there first new cell phone to the market it includes the worlds first 3d projector on a cell phone and also includes your basic features such as wifi, 3g, gps, speakerphone. But the phone does not include a camera, web browser, movable icons, you can't change the wallpaper now are those last features necessary for the function of the phone? no but are people going to be pissed they are not included? yes they are you expect companies to learn and use the best of the best from the past why should we not expect any differen't here?
Wonderful. So I assume you've got a detailed project plan that Bioware should have followed to get all of those things on the list in the game at launch, along with the time and costs for each thing factored in?
It's real easy to say what a game "should" have at launch. It's another thing entirely to actually develop a game. And a lot of those things are either fluff or convenience items that can easily be pushed to expansions or free content updates, which is why many of them didn't end up in previous games right at launch.
Now about innovation may I lecture you about some of the things that are missing in TOR:
Swimming
Third party addons
Minigames like card games or slot gamers (space combat s a mini game)
Dual spec
Day/night cycles
Non humanoid based playable races
Planetary housing
Housing furnishing
Animal based pet classes
Resources for crafting that do have quality
Complex crafting system
Guild leveling system
Animal mounts <- Rift does not have mechanical mounts
Flying mounts
PvP Arenas
Collision detection between characters
Macros
Barber / Image Designer
Appearance tabs
Fishing
Guild "Tabard"
Multiplayer mounts
Gear Dyes
Shared storage bank slots
In game voice chat
LFG tool
Guild bank
Incentives for socialization
Character extended body customization
3 Factions RvR
Wolrd PvP
RPG tools
Underwater content
3d exploration
In red text are the things that werent in Rift at launch. Indented are things that actually are in SWTOR. Im assuming 3d exploration means stuff you need to fly to get to, because there is *plenty* of exploring up mountains and such for datacrons. Also there is most certainly a LFG tool, and it would work fine if eople actually used it. Im assuming he meant a LFD tool.
I like to use the cell phone analogy in 2000 a company releases a cell phone with a whole slew of new features such as wifi, gps, 3g, voice dialing, web browser, camera, speakerphone, media player, movable icons, and some others
now come 2012 a huge company releases there first new cell phone to the market it includes the worlds first 3d projector on a cell phone and also includes your basic features such as wifi, 3g, gps, speakerphone. But the phone does not include a camera, web browser, movable icons, you can't change the wallpaper now are those last features necessary for the function of the phone? no but are people going to be pissed they are not included? yes they are you expect companies to learn and use the best of the best from the past why should we not expect any differen't here?
Wonderful. So I assume you've got a detailed project plan that Bioware should have followed to get all of those things on the list in the game at launch, along with the time and costs for each thing factored in?
It's real easy to say what a game "should" have at launch. It's another thing entirely to actually develop a game. And a lot of those things are either fluff or convenience items that can easily be pushed to expansions or free content updates, which is why many of them didn't end up in previous games right at launch.
my comparison was just to show the people that can't seem to comprehend why people are upset about some of this or all of this is missing from a 2012 MMO.. doesn't matter what product or media type you apply it to... if a director went and made a new super high budget SCI-FI movie it had the best acting and story of any movie before it yet looked like it was made with the same technology as the original star wars you think people wouldn't be pissed? or if the next modern warfare game came out in 5 years and went back to similar game mechanics as as modern warfare 1 getting rid of all the level ups and everything they added throughout the series you wouldn't expect people to tear the game apart?
Comments
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
How do you end up going out of your way to search for a quote, copy/paste it and completely miscomprehend it?
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
What? ... you said "no there aren't", all I showed was there are people who want to see it fail, there have been many posters who have said as much.
I didn't go out of my way, I had just read that post 5 secs before I read yours. Still how am I miscomprehending this post?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't think anything on that list is innovative and most of it is just a waste of resources. The items in red are the ones I think should have been addressed on release of a wow clone or themepark mmo.
I only recall a rebel alliance.
This is another example that strikes me as "We're Bioware. We're Professionals. We know what we are doing."
In other words, it isn't bragging if you can back it up. The moment you do not, however...
Avatars are people too
fluff or not MMO gamers these days expect most of it and are going to complain about this stuff and I bet you most of this is going to get added in one form or another such as how the LFG tool is getting added soon. Instead now they have to put time and resources into adding a lot of that stuff when I feel most, considering there budget and time spent on game, could of been in at launch. Now we could be expecting just content and new features which I'm sure well get but it's still less resources they are using on content they'll be using on fluff as you call it.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
I'm really stunned that so many fanbois acually defend that missguided guy from Bioware and his statment.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
The Empire, the Republic and a Mercenary "wildcard" faction. In fact it's unrealistic and senseless for a GALAXY to have only 2 major factions.
As for lore, as I stated, it only supports my arguments. Your reasoning makes no sense whatsoever -- besides, this is ~3000 years in the past; of course things are going to be different and in-game events don't have to correspond perfectly with the canon stuff because remember: victors write histories.
I'm sorry but if you are going to suggest mercenary as a faction that wouldn't work. By defenition a mercenary is a gun for hire in which case they would work for the republic or empire thus leading you back to 2 factions not three. You would've had a better chance with Mandalorians or Hutts you could atleast have a little something to argue for a third faction with those 2.
The point is, can you realistically look at the popular image of Star Wars and see that third faction?
No. You can't. It has always been Empire vs. Republic and Jedi vs. Sith from the start. That's not going to change because some people want a Star Wars version of DAoC with three faction RvR.
The Hutts?
They aren't a major player. The empire routinely demolishes entire planets. The Republic rebuilds entire planets. The Hutts traffic in stolen goods. If they really got out of hand, they wouldn't last more than a day or so against either the Republic or the Empire. None of the 'neutral' factions would last very long really.
I think a third, neutral faction where the criminal players can take either Republic or Empire missions would work. I don't think that would make sense in a PvP context though. The neutrals should have to pick a side at some point for PvP.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Your reply is pretty much on par with the OPs list as far as I'm concerned
1. You are not entitled to anything regardless of what you find to be quality feature which by the way is your own personal preference.
2. I didn't make a list of things a game must have rendering your point moot.
3. Arguing personal taste is like competing in the special olympics.. I'm sure you know the rest.
The difference between people like you and people like me is, if I don't like a game then I move on. I don't expect a game to cater to my wims and wishes. I'm fully aware a game company can design a game just like they want to be played just like they want. I'm also pretty sure gamers such as yourself can play something else If they don't think the product is satisfactory. I say again. You are entitled to squat when it comes to features. Play a game that has those features and avoid those that doesn't. There is no law or thumb rule out there written in stone a game must have this or that to be accepted. It may be that way with you personally but you do not speak for anybody but yourself.
I agree for the most part, as far as Hutts aren't major players not so sure about that, they just don't get involved nor do the others really interfere with their affairs.
Overall though that would be the best fit, it's basically how the factions were implemented into SWG. It worked really well when group TEFS were in effect, as a merc could group with either side and help out.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I was on the phone with a client and kinda laughed in their face after reading this. The call was about a claim and the lady was like why are you laughing....Thanks for the laugh and thx for prob getting me fired ;/
CPU-HP Omen 17.3" Laptop i7 12 GB AMD Radeon RX580 1 TB Hard Drive
Lets be honest here. Most of the stuff mentioned there is from games that are 3-7 years old. And some of it was there in release, some of it was not. This game is just coming up on one month. I love how they are expected to have everything every game has had prior to their game. Perhaps, they just flat out didn't want some of that in there? Perhaps it didn't fit. Or perhaps, they just didn't have time to add it yet.
I think with this game, they wanted to get it working well, and have as smooth of a release as they could. Some of the shit really isn't needed right now, other stuff, I could probably use right now.
We all know these games are a work in progress. My opinion is that they have a hell of a good game for a starter. My hope is that things will only get better from here. However, I'm no fanboy. Should the time come where I'm no longer having fun.. I'm out.
Being innovative in desinging a game is like day and night compared to what TOR has done. and we all know that TOR has no day and night cycle.
It doesn't even come close to KOTOR 1 and 2.
If cut scenes and fully voiced story, the companion system, the holo-communication system, reactive animations in combat, etc.. are not innovations for an MMO (a different way, or method)< (one definition of "innovation") none of what the OP pointed out are either, nor are day and night cycles. Innovation has more than one meaning, especially in game development.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
i like how people come up with this argument all the time.. thing is a lot of these can be considered fluff or I call them conveinence features or things that are added to games to make them either more fun for people or in some cases more accessable..
I like to use the cell phone analogy in 2000 a company releases a cell phone with a whole slew of new features such as wifi, gps, 3g, voice dialing, web browser, camera, speakerphone, media player, movable icons, and some others
now come 2012 a huge company releases there first new cell phone to the market it includes the worlds first 3d projector on a cell phone and also includes your basic features such as wifi, 3g, gps, speakerphone. But the phone does not include a camera, web browser, movable icons, you can't change the wallpaper now are those last features necessary for the function of the phone? no but are people going to be pissed they are not included? yes they are you expect companies to learn and use the best of the best from the past why should we not expect any differen't here?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Swimming - it's just lazy not having it. All the water in SWTOR is ankle deep. I mean come on EQ had kedge keep, Rift had some underwater caves and underwater puzzles, WoW had some fun swimming in booty bay etc.
Third party addons - these can be good and bad. DPS meters help the players improve but they also leave no place for bad players to hide.
Minigames like card games or slot gamers - Pazaak is coming I guess. Pod or speeder racing would be cool too.
Dual spec - why not?
Day/night cycles - sure.
Non humanoid based playable races -Seriously it's star wars. SWG had 10 races including Trandoshan, Bothan, etc.
Planetary housing - SWG, LOTRO, DAOC it's a very social and enjoyable feature.
Housing furnishing - you would need housing for this.
Animal based pet classes - Creature handler. This got replaced with companions.
Resources for crafting that do have quality - SWG had awesome crafting.
Complex crafting system - While having your companions make everything is conveient it's not exactly engaging.
Guild leveling system - why not.
Animal mounts - Dewbacks, Tauntauns.
Flying mounts - JETPACK! nuff said.
PvP Arenas - more warzones would be nice too, along with being able to pick what ones you want to play.
Collision detection between characters - not needed but does add some realism and depending on how it's done can be used to grief.
Macros - should be standard.
Barber / Image Designer - SWG and WoW have this it's not rocket science, good fluff feature.
Appearance tabs - like LOTRO
Fishing - SWG, WoW, EQ it gives you something else to do.
Guild "Tabard" - would have been better described as a guild logo. Maybe with some banners but hey they don't have housing or armor that would display your guild logo.
Multiplayer mounts - yes.
Gear Dyes -yes.
Shared storage bank slots -yes
In game voice chat - who cares
LFG tool - oh you know this is coming.
Guild bank - yes.
Incentives for socialization
Character extended body customization - what 3 body types isn't a plenthora?
3 Factions RvR - Rebels, Empire, Freelance. They even had 3 factions for space in SWG. X-wings, Tie fighters, Milenium Falcon. Smugglers and bounty hunters were freelance...
Wolrd PvP - What you mean ilum with it's trade clicking daily isn't mind blowing enough?
RPG tools
Underwater content - kinda goes with swimming.
3d exploration - you have to jump for some datacrons!
Really a lot of the stuff that should be in this game that didn't make it or is being added due to huge demand you have to question why with the huge budget and time they had did not get done.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/A barbershop allows you to change how your character actually looks after creation. Any game that supports dyes and appearance tabs should support changing your characters appearance down the line.
Bad analogy to use though... we aren't talking hardware.. because hardware continues to advance, while gameplay is subjective and dependant on genre, focus, etc.
Also, launch populations and the early game is much different from an MMOs aged population. We are not all alike, and we all play the game differently, so where you might see a major flaw, I might not see one at all.
Long story short, there are a lot of features that SHOULD be there... in fact, one feature that really shouldn't be there right now but is there, is the legacy system... I'm in love with the prospects of it, but angry that its little more than an alternate XP bar with a last name option. Guild features like a guild bank only makes sense when hoarding materials, but the capital ship will be the great achievement in the guild system.
An early game LFD tool that ports people, or uses cross server queues breaks apart the community and shouldn't be something used in an early MMO... but might be nice when populations die down across all servers.
Wonderful. So I assume you've got a detailed project plan that Bioware should have followed to get all of those things on the list in the game at launch, along with the time and costs for each thing factored in?
It's real easy to say what a game "should" have at launch. It's another thing entirely to actually develop a game. And a lot of those things are either fluff or convenience items that can easily be pushed to expansions or free content updates, which is why many of them didn't end up in previous games right at launch.
In red text are the things that werent in Rift at launch. Indented are things that actually are in SWTOR. Im assuming 3d exploration means stuff you need to fly to get to, because there is *plenty* of exploring up mountains and such for datacrons. Also there is most certainly a LFG tool, and it would work fine if eople actually used it. Im assuming he meant a LFD tool.
I'm responding to this long OP, not the quote. If he wanted me to address the quote he should have made a completely different , and far shorter, OP.
my comparison was just to show the people that can't seem to comprehend why people are upset about some of this or all of this is missing from a 2012 MMO.. doesn't matter what product or media type you apply it to... if a director went and made a new super high budget SCI-FI movie it had the best acting and story of any movie before it yet looked like it was made with the same technology as the original star wars you think people wouldn't be pissed? or if the next modern warfare game came out in 5 years and went back to similar game mechanics as as modern warfare 1 getting rid of all the level ups and everything they added throughout the series you wouldn't expect people to tear the game apart?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html