Now about innovation may I lecture you about some of the things that are missing in TOR:
Swimming
Third party addons
Minigames like card games or slot gamers
Dual spec
Day/night cycles
Non humanoid based playable races
Planetary housing
Housing furnishing
Animal based pet classes
Resources for crafting that do have quality
Complex crafting system
Guild leveling system
Animal mounts
Flying mounts
PvP Arenas
Collision detection between characters
Macros
Barber / Image Designer
Appearance tabs
Fishing
Guild "Tabard"
Multiplayer mounts
Gear Dyes
Shared storage bank slots
In game voice chat
LFG tool
Guild bank
Incentives for socialization
Character extended body customization
3 Factions RvR
Wolrd PvP
RPG tools
Underwater content
3d exploration
Most of these aren't missing... they're just unnecessary. Also it makes me believe you just wanna play WoW... so please go play WoW.
1. Unnecessary.
2. Unnecessary.
3. Pretty sure it's in the works.
4. Not bad to have, but ultimately unnecessary.
5. Unnecessary.
6. I think this is in the works.
7. There's ships, so why?
8. Wouldn't mind being able to furnish the ship and make it unique, but it's not overly needed.
9. Unnecessary.
10. Uh..??
11. It's more complex than most MMO's already... have you and/or your crew gather stuff, make some stuff, reverse engineering and learn new, better ways to make that piece of gear, etc.
12 - 17. Unnecessary and/or stupid. Especially the PvP Arenas.
18. We do need this, and I'm sure it is coming at some point.
19. Probably on the way.
20 - 22. Unnecessary.
23. This one is coming.
24 - 25. Unnecessary.
26. Already in the game.
27. Unnecessary.
28. I've been socializing quite a bit either talking in general, or joining groups for flashpoints, heroic areas, etc. But if you mean a reason to socialize outside of combat, then sure, that would be nice.
29. Agree here.
30. Unnecessary.
31. Already in the game.
32. Unnecessary.
33. Unnecessary.
34. Don't know what you're going for with this.
------
A lot of these points suggest you either haven't played the game, or you didn't play passed the starter area.
Interesting how mostly everyone focused on THE list.
Now for the little story, the list is here to point at the obvious:
How can you pretend being innovative if you're lacking most of the basis from all working and desired (at east by some) features... when for your arguing you have not much more than Voiced over dialogs and speaking companions?
One can certainly be nitpicking about [insert feature name here], thing is others MMO have it. Any player can live without let's say, gear dyes, or LFD/G tool or even a customizable UI, or even everything in the list. However when your game do lacks most of them, please don't pretend you are innovative. You aren't.
TOR is a fun game, still it's far from innovative. Or would I say, it's the first MMO innovating by not having so many common MMO features at launch.
Interesting how mostly everyone focused on THE list.
Now for the little story, the list is here to point at the obvious:
How can you pretend being innovative if you're lacking most of the basis from all working and desired (at east by some) features... when for your arguing you have not much more than Voiced over dialogs and speaking companions?
One can certainly be nitpicking about [insert feature name here], thing is others MMO have it. Any player can live without let's say, gear dyes, or LFD/G tool or even a customizable UI, or even everything in the list. However when your game do lacks most of them, please don't pretend you are innovative. You aren't.
TOR is a fun game, still it's far from innovative. Or would I say, it's the first MMO innovating by not having so many common MMO features at launch.
You can be innovative in areas. Just because you miss basic features, I agree some on that list are needed some are just a waste of time for developers, doesn't mean you can't be innovative.
One can certainly be nitpicking about [insert feature name here], thing is others MMO have it. Any player can live without let's say, gear dyes, or LFD/G tool or even a customizable UI, or even everything in the list. However when your game do lacks most of them, please don't pretend you are innovative. You aren't.
How is it innovative to have the same exact features that other games have, and which took YEARS of development in some cases before they ever emerged?
Some of those features on your list are either meaningless fluff or can wait for expansions, just like they were introduced in later versions of previous games. They're not mandatory. Can people still play the game? Yes? Then it doesn't matter if those features are in on Day 1 or not.
How is it innovative to have the same exact features that other games have, and which took YEARS of development in some cases before they ever emerged?
Some of those features on your list are either meaningless fluff or can wait for expansions, just like they were introduced in later versions of previous games. They're not mandatory. Can people still play the game? Yes? Then it doesn't matter if those features are in on Day 1 or not.
just because some MMOs took years to come up with some of those features doesn't mean they took long to implement or even create.. many just never thought of it or it was a feature MMOs had no seen yet. It will matter a lot if the game starts losing a lot of people after this month because it didn't include basic features from other MMOs.. granted maybe you don't care, hell I don't care about a couple of them but I'm sure there are people out there that will leave because several of those are not in the game... pretty sure there goal is getting as many people ot subscribe to the game as possible not drive people somewhere else in 3 months.
How is it innovative to have the same exact features that other games have, and which took YEARS of development in some cases before they ever emerged?
Some of those features on your list are either meaningless fluff or can wait for expansions, just like they were introduced in later versions of previous games. They're not mandatory. Can people still play the game? Yes? Then it doesn't matter if those features are in on Day 1 or not.
just because some MMOs took years to come up with some of those features doesn't mean they took long to implement or even create.. many just never thought of it or it was a feature MMOs had no seen yet. It will matter a lot if the game starts losing a lot of people after this month because it didn't include basic features from other MMOs.. granted maybe you don't care hell I don't care about a couple of them but I'm sure there are people out there that will leave because several of those are not in the game... pretty sure there goal is getting as many people ot subscribe to the game as possible not drive people somewhere else in 3 months.
Not. The. Point.
The fact is, a lot of the things on that list are either meaningless or weren't in previous games when those games first launched. Show me a single game on this site that had all of them on Day 1.
It's stupid to demand a laundry list like that be in a game on Day 1 when to my knowledge that has never happened in any previous MMO, and I've been playing these games since 1999. Further, demanding a laundry list of things that others have done before ISN'T INNOVATION. It's demanding convenience or fluff becaue X game had it and you got used to it.
How is it innovative to have the same exact features that other games have, and which took YEARS of development in some cases before they ever emerged?
Some of those features on your list are either meaningless fluff or can wait for expansions, just like they were introduced in later versions of previous games. They're not mandatory. Can people still play the game? Yes? Then it doesn't matter if those features are in on Day 1 or not.
just because some MMOs took years to come up with some of those features doesn't mean they took long to implement or even create.. many just never thought of it or it was a feature MMOs had no seen yet. It will matter a lot if the game starts losing a lot of people after this month because it didn't include basic features from other MMOs.. granted maybe you don't care hell I don't care about a couple of them but I'm sure there are people out there that will leave because several of those are not in the game... pretty sure there goal is getting as many people ot subscribe to the game as possible not drive people somewhere else in 3 months.
Not. The. Point.
The fact is, a lot of the things on that list are either meaningless or weren't in previous games when those games first launched. Show me a single game on this site that had all of them on Day 1.
It's stupid to demand a laundry list like that be in a game on Day 1 when to my knowledge that has never happened in any previous MMO, and I've been playing these games since 1999. Further, demanding a laundry list of things that others have done before ISN'T INNOVATION. It's demanding convenience or fluff becaue X game had it and you got used to it.
you'd be suprised how many people feel this stuff is not meaningless.. seriously are you that blind you think there are not plenty of people out there that feel lack of convienence features is game breaking to them? some people may be on the fence about the game as well and don't like many aspects then see how much is missing and just say screw it I'll go on to something else.. most of this stuff does what? gives you options.. people like options.. people especially like options in MMO's people like not to be stuck with a UI they can't do anything to.. people like not looking like a clone to not even just other people around them but to the NPCS!... people like being able to tailor there character how they want.. people like options in classes so you aren't stuck with the same thing all day everyday... it's simple people like options.. and I bet money the lack of options in this game is going to drive a lot of people away
you'd be suprised how many people feel this stuff is not meaningless.. seriously are you that blind you think there are not plenty of people out there that feel lack of convienence features is game breaking to them? some people may be on the fence about the game as well and don't like many aspects then see how much is missing and just say screw it I'll go on to something else.. most of this stuff does what? gives you options.. people like options.. people especially like options in MMO's people like not to be stuck with a UI they can't do anything to.. people looking like a clone to not even people around them but to the NPCS!... people like being able to tailor there character how they want.. people like options in classes so you aren't stuck with the same thing all day everyday... it's simple people like options.. and I bet money the lack of options in this game is going to drive a lot of people away
Here's a shocking, controversial idea -- why don't we let Bioware actually update the damned game for a while, and see where they're going to go?
The game just launched less than a month ago. FFS, can we at least let the devs get through the free month and start releasing update patches and new content? This whole line of complaint is the perfect embodiment oft he "Instant Gratification" whine that people on these boards are always going on about. Yes, it's not in the game now. Boo hoo. For all we know, some of them might end up in the game sooner rather than later, but we won't know that until Bioware actually start updating the damn thing.
Subscribe or don't. I don't work for Bioware so it doesn't matter to me. But at least allow them to develop the game the way they want to. Is that so hard?
you'd be suprised how many people feel this stuff is not meaningless.. seriously are you that blind you think there are not plenty of people out there that feel lack of convienence features is game breaking to them? some people may be on the fence about the game as well and don't like many aspects then see how much is missing and just say screw it I'll go on to something else.. most of this stuff does what? gives you options.. people like options.. people especially like options in MMO's people like not to be stuck with a UI they can't do anything to.. people looking like a clone to not even people around them but to the NPCS!... people like being able to tailor there character how they want.. people like options in classes so you aren't stuck with the same thing all day everyday... it's simple people like options.. and I bet money the lack of options in this game is going to drive a lot of people away
Here's a shocking, controversial idea -- why don't we let Bioware actually update the damned game for a while, and see where they're going to go?
The game just launched less than a month ago. FFS, can we at least let the devs get through the free month and start releasing update patches and new content? This whole line of complaint is the perfect embodiment oft he "Instant Gratification" whine that people on these boards are always going on about. Yes, it's not in the game now. Boo hoo. For all we know, some of them might end up in the game sooner rather than later, but we won't know that until Bioware actually start updating the damn thing.
Subscribe or don't. I don't work for Bioware so it doesn't matter to me. But at least allow them to develop the game the way they want to. Is that so hard?
it should matter to you if people want to stay or not.. it's going to be a lonely place if everyone bolts ain't it?... funny thing about MMOs for a lot of people is if they don't like it at first they will leave.. why wait around paying for months till the game may or may not fix or add many features... it's great 6 months down the road if it's up to par with the MMO aspects of other games but what could happen by then? you got other games coming out with new ideas.. maybe it's just me but games should grab you at the start and for some people its these little things that do it.. believe it or not but it's just how things are.. Sorry if you can't accept times have changed we are not in 2004 anymore people do and should expect more from there MMOs year after year.. if we don't then how do things progress? should we just settle for eq or wow clones for the next 20 years?
Here is the list of stuff that is missing and will make me stop playing / subscribing at end level:
Beast Master (even the ability to control a pet, but would be awesome if you could create your own like in SWG)
Chronicles / Story creation tool
Player Cities
Harvesting
Better and more rewarding Crafting
Huge areas of space to explore - Even STO does it better than SWTOR, with far less staff and less money and less time to get it done.
Seasonal Events
Mission Terminals - Individually they were all basically the same, but when they mixed with the spawns in the wild, no 2 missions were ever the same.
8 player multiplayer vehicles
or things like it, as without it there is just nothing to mess around with between doing the story based quests.
I have no interest in PVPing or raiding, but used to like doing the above stuff in SWG, and could not get enough of it.
Yes, a lot of people have been saying they are not going to sub at the end of 30 days because there is just too much missing. Other MMOs have not been all complete, and added later, but SWTOR has been the most lacking so far. It is just voice over story based questing like other MMOs and nothing else worthwile in it, and getting characters through to max level has been extremely quick and short.
In LOTRO, SWG, Aion, WOW, EQ2 etc etc it has been a jaw dropping experience just to roam the lands. In SWTOR it is move from point A-B-C-B-A-D etc and just a dull boring lifeless journey, and nothing to make you stop and admire the view and take things in slowly. Twin suns in SWG on tatooine - breath taking
I am sure they plan on adding things, but it is not going to help some people after the 30 days are up. If it is more story basd quests they just plan on adding, and no tinkering side stuff, and can be done in a week, then it might be best to sub after every fourth update. SWG had a tonne of things to do, and even if they added no more content all the systems in the game was enough to keep the players amused by themselves.
Here is the list of stuff that is missing and will make me stop playing / subscribing at end level: Beast Master (even the ability to control a pet, but would be awesome if you could create your own like in SWG)
Chronicles / Story creation tool
Player Cities
Harvesting
Better and more rewarding Crafting
Huge areas of space to explore - Even STO does it better than SWTOR, with far less staff and less money and less time to get it done.
Seasonal Events
Mission Terminals - Individually they were all basically the same, but when they mixed with the spawns in the wild, no 2 missions were ever the same.
8 player multiplayer vehicles
or things like it, as without it there is just nothing to mess around with between doing the story based quests. I have no interest in PVPing or raiding, but used to like doing the above stuff in SWG, and could not get enough of it. Yes, a lot of people have been saying they are not going to sub at the end of 30 days because there is just too much missing. Other MMOs have not been all complete, and added later, but SWTOR has been the most lacking so far. It is just voice over story based questing like other MMOs and nothing else worthwile in it, and getting characters through to max level has been extremely quick and short. In LOTRO, SWG, Aion, WOW, EQ2 etc etc it has been a jaw dropping experience just to roam the lands. In SWTOR it is move from point A-B-C-B-A-D etc and just a dull boring lifeless journey, and nothing to make you stop and admire the view and take things in slowly. Twin suns in SWG on tatooine - breath taking I am sure they plan on adding things, but it is not going to help some people after the 30 days are up. If it is more story basd quests they just plan on adding, and no tinkering side stuff, and can be done in a week, then it might be best to sub after every fourth update. SWG had a tonne of things to do, and even if they added no more content all the systems in the game was enough to keep the players amused by themselves.
Ya the game is fun in only one way, story, beyond that it makes SWG look like a well rounded game no wonder why they killed it.
Other MMOs have not been all complete, and added later, but SWTOR has been the most lacking so far. It is just voice over story based questing like other MMOs and nothing else worthwile in it, and getting characters through to max level has been extremely quick and short.
Sadly that's the idea. So much revolved around story that the game has been delivered without the rest.
Originally posted by sanosukex*
*snip. maybe it's just me but games should grab you at the start and for some people its these little things that do it.. believe it or not but it's just how things are.. Sorry if you can't accept times have changed we are not in 2004 anymore people do and should expect more from there MMOs year after year.. if we don't then how do things progress? should we just settle for eq or wow clones for the next 20 years?
^ This.
As a player I'm really looking forward the future additions to TOR but I'm also a paying subscriber and my play time is limited.
There are already other well polished MMO with much bigger content. There's also a few other interesting MMO to be published in a not so far future. You have to have it now, not in 6 month. There's no such thing as a second launch for an MMO.
One can certainly be nitpicking about [insert feature name here], thing is others MMO have it. Any player can live without let's say, gear dyes, or LFD/G tool or even a customizable UI, or even everything in the list. However when your game do lacks most of them, please don't pretend you are innovative. You aren't.
How is it innovative to have the same exact features that other games have, and which took YEARS of development in some cases before they ever emerged?
Some of those features on your list are either meaningless fluff or can wait for expansions, just like they were introduced in later versions of previous games. They're not mandatory. Can people still play the game? Yes? Then it doesn't matter if those features are in on Day 1 or not.
I think the point that the OP was trying to make is that NOT ONLY does the game have little new innovation... but it doesn't even have a whole plethora of things that it would be nice to have at least at least half of.
In other words is is the 'opposite' of innovative. (I use opposite in a very loose way here). It doesn't take a typical mmo and add more innovate features... it actually lacks many features present in other games.
..and sure you're right.. no MMO has this full list. I don't think that was actually what he was asking for.
(the above does not necessary reflect my own views.. I only played beta for a short while.. im just trying to clarify the point the OP was making)
As an aside, in many of the recent flame wars I've seen, Ive noticed this tendancy for people to defend a new game when it has a poor launch (SWTOR by most accounts didnt) or lacks features of older games. (i.e... WoW has had several years to perfect things and add features). In any other business you wouldn't accept such excuses.
Say you use a gym.. it has a swimming pool and sauna and charges a reasonable fee. You decide to check out a new gym. The monthly fee is the same.. but you notice that it has no pool or sauna. You tell the reception person that you wont be joining their gym because it offers less features for the same price. Would it then be reasonable for them (or a nearby customer) to argue with you and say... well were just a new gym.. we haven't had time to build a pool and sauna yet... it wont be ready until next year, but you should still pay the same fee and leave your current gym. No, it absolutely wouldn't unless they were offering a temporarily lower monthly fee.
There's no such thing as a second launch for an MMO.
unless you are FFXIV:) but pretty sure most people have already let that ship sail though... but at least they went F2P till they felt the game was finished
As an aside, in many of the recent flame wars I've seen, Ive noticed this tendancy for people to defend a new game when it has a poor launch (SWTOR by most accounts didnt) or lacks features of older games. (i.e... WoW has had several years to perfect things and add features). In any other business you wouldn't accept such excuses.
Say you use a gym.. it has a swimming pool and sauna and charges a reasonable fee. You decide to check out a new gym. The monthly fee is the same.. but you notice that it has no pool or sauna. You tell the reception person that you wont be joining their gym because it offers less features for the same price. Would it then be reasonable for them (or a nearby customer) to argue with you and say... well were just a new gym.. we haven't had time to build a pool and sauna yet... it wont be ready until next year, but you should still pay the same fee and leave your current gym. No, it absolutely wouldn't unless they were offering a temporarily lower monthly fee.
Why do we take this rubbish from MMO's?
Well, you can go different routes with that example. For example: the new gym is closer to your home, your friends and buddies work out there and it's more fun to train together with them, the atmosphere and vibe of the place is more to your liking than the other older gyms, you like the crowd hanging around there, it has a friendlier more encouraging culture there, they have specialised training programs that you're interested in and that the other gym(s) didn't offer... so many factors that can play a role in decisionmaking.
To translate things to SWTOR: it offers a SW/KOTOR vibe that a person can enjoy, it provides a questing experience that to those interested provide a more immersive and engaging experience than questing in other MMO's, it offers the options instanced PvP, open world PvP, FFA PvP as well as objective based faction PvP where MMO's like LotrO and Aion don't offer that in such variety, it has an entertaining and well integrated Companion system, it has a different-than-usual crafting mechanic and system, it has a plethora of group/duo content, the large explorable worlds and the dungeons and raid content that might be expected of an AAA MMORPG, etc. In short, it offers its own stuff and distinctions, just like other AAA MMORPG's.
"We knew that there was going to be people who wanted us to fail. But that's just the nature of the game. If you're going to build a huge game and try to go out to a lot of people, you're going to have people who just react poorly."
That quote right there shows just how out of touch with reality the development team of this game is. It is little wonder that all the numerous problems that were reported in beta have been ignored: those people just want the game to fail. How conveninient.
Nobody goes out and pays good money for a game becasue they want it to fail; this is comon sense. People offer criticism because they hope you have the open-mindedness, maturity and commitment to quality to make the necessary changes to fix problems and improve the game. Your subscribers are not out to get you.
Instead, I have never seen a game whose basic design displays such a staggering lack of common sense. I am not talking about bugs, though there are penty of those, or broken game mechanics, though there is plenty of that, as well. I am talking about fundamental, common sense stuff like not using tiny, illegible fonts to display text, a chat box that doesn't constantly get in the way or that at least has a clickthrough option so there is no effect if you accidentally click it, crafting missions like Underwold Trading that often don't give you the option to get the metals you need, but instead offer companion gifts and fabrics you don't need, and recognizing that people who are not masochists do not enjoy being frustrated, aggravated or having their time wasted. Whoever thought a 30 minute balloon ride to get a datacron was a fun idea needs to quit the industry.
Having to go through 10 minutes of running and cutscenes just to mail a letter from my ship, then having to do the same to come back...whose brilliant idea was this? Getting knocked off your speeder, knocked on your ass for good measure and being forced to fight near 100 percent of the time you come in range of mobs you'd rather bypass is supposed to be fun? The frustrating GTN is so poorly designed it never should have made it past the drawing board, let alone through Beta and on into the game. While we're on the subject whose briliant idea was it to have your companions constantly interrupt you while using the crappy GTN or anything else? No doubt the people who complained about these things just want to destroy the game, as I must surely do as well, since I love wasting my money.
The game is plagued by this kind of anal-retentive MMO BS that gets added into games by developers who think being frustrated and aggravated is fun. It is not.
The claim to be "innovative" is particularly delusional. This game isn't a WoW clone, it is a Star Wars mod for WoW. They copied just about everything WoW did to the nth degree, and it shows in every little detail. The worst part, is they mindlessly copied all the stupid, furstrating and aggravating aspects of WoW without a single thought apparently as to whether this stuff actually adds to the player experience or not. Common sense dictates that people didn't desert WoW just to play a game that has mirrored to a tee a lot of WoW's flaws...even some of the bugs are the same...with little to none of its polish.
"We knew that there was going to be people who wanted us to fail. But that's just the nature of the game. If you're going to build a huge game and try to go out to a lot of people, you're going to have people who just react poorly."
He should have known better than to post something like this. This reminds me of a Paul Barnet talking about WAR after game launch.
"We knew that there was going to be people who wanted us to fail. But that's just the nature of the game. If you're going to build a huge game and try to go out to a lot of people, you're going to have people who just react poorly."
He should have known better than to post something like this. This reminds me of a Paul Barnet talking about WAR after game launch.
Edit & foreword: Wanted to say I enjoy playing the game still, we ain't sheep!
Nearly fell down from my chair reading the below quote
Originally Posted by James Ohlen
For the most part, players and critics have praised the game, Ohlen shares, and BioWare is seeing an "exceptionally high" desire among its playerbase for continued subscriptions. But was BioWare prepared for the backlash as well? Ohlen says it was: "We knew that there was going to be people who wanted us to fail. But that's just the nature of the game. If you're going to build a huge game and try to go out to a lot of people, you're going to have people who just react poorly."
He does push back hard against claims that SWTOR failed on the innovation front, stating, "We wanted to take the lessons that have been developed in that genre over years and years and years and basically refine them, much like other companies do with other genres. So, I don't know, it's just the way it is, but I don't see us as not being innovative. We're actually a lot more innovative within the MMO space than comparable games in other spaces like the first-person genre, the action genre -- games like that."
no pun intended, still even if I can understand defending your (Everyone @BioWare/EA/LA) work you have either to be in denial, delusional or... I don't know.
First most players did not want you/TOR to fail but to succeed because, let's be honest we all want a FUN MMO. Then you should not even mention some wants you to fail, not only nobody cares about them but it makes you like the fool here. You reacted poorly.
Now about innovation may I lecture you about some of the things that are missing in TOR:
Swimming
Third party addons
Minigames like card games or slot gamers
Dual spec
Day/night cycles
Non humanoid based playable races
Planetary housing
Housing furnishing
Animal based pet classes
Resources for crafting that do have quality
Complex crafting system
Guild leveling system
Animal mounts
Flying mounts
PvP Arenas
Collision detection between characters
Macros
Barber / Image Designer
Appearance tabs
Fishing
Guild "Tabard"
Multiplayer mounts
Gear Dyes
Shared storage bank slots
In game voice chat
LFG tool
Guild bank
Incentives for socialization
Character extended body customization
3 Factions RvR
Wolrd PvP
RPG tools
Underwater content
3d exploration
The only things to notice, and I'm not saying these features are bad, are: speaking pets and totally V.O. story.
About "pet" classes, the not so good thing is in TOR you can't really choose how to play.
In single player you are mostly required to play with a companion (pet classe are somehow mandatory unless you want to play in hard difficulty mode)
In multiplayer you can't play a pet class in a full group or you have to replace a player with a companion.
On character customization, we can't really call innovation the following: a choice of combinations of 4 eyebrows, 4 jewelry, 4 cybernetic attachements and 4 body choices. SWG, AOC, AION, RIFT have more and better choices than TOR. And in SWG, LotRo I can change my character aspect in game after character creation.
About gear itemization, it has been proved the mod system does not do the trick and even a simpler appearance tab offers more customization, promotes more trading and prevents more players either from looking alike or being dressed as clowns. BTW other MMO do have gear dyes and the to come GW2 will have a choice of 3 dyeable zones on each equipment with a choice among palette color of 400 nuances. Also in games like, LotRo I can hide my character's shoulder pads, boots, gloves, cloak.
Apart glowing sticks and nice sounds I fail to see how TOR is innovative on combat. It's more or less the same stuff that has been done for eons. Also it's the exact same trinity system with boss kiting, playerS against a boss.
Let's speak about PvP: where are the massive battles? Where is the open PvP? The game was designed in a such way that it prevents PvP on too many planets and too often, apart in battlegrounds one has to be lucky to find an opponent player. Seems to me the innovation here was to remove PvP from the world and shrink it to the instances.
TOR crafting system, isn't bad but at this point it's more a money sink than else and just slightly better than Rift, not even as good as LoRo, EQII, Vanguard and light years behind from Pre-CU SWG.
How about TOR world? It feels dead. NPC and many mobs are just standing still. We can't interact with them. There's no critters. No day/night cycles with scripted NPC and mobs acting depending on the time of the day.
About the UI, the innovation here was to deliver the least convenient UI, AAA MMO wide. Even AoC had a more customizable UI at lauch and that's saying something. We can't even move my frames around nor scale my UI! This is a PC game not a freaking console game.
About story, ok the story ain't that bad in general but but too often the dialogs are pretty generic and well the choices don't have any impact at all on the game.
Loading screens... of death. AoC was flamed to death for having them and we have at least twice more in TOR. Do you call that innovation?
Please don't mention the space shooter because not only it's more on rails than all others around but even your scripted music isn't as good as what was achieved with the dynamic iMuse system in X-Wing in... 1993!
Finally let's talk polishing. At best TOR is uneven in terms of polishing:
"Let's see: lacklustre UI, AA not working, High textures not available in world, many players with regular disconnection errors 9000, Black screen crashing, horrid FPS issues, Taris memory leak @launch, players that can't complete patching the game, many V.O. camera angles off, some quests story lines broken, group and guild chat that was broken, totally flawed PvP design on Illum, poor LFG system, not even dual specs"
A polished MMO? Bend towards Turbine/LotRO and more lately Trion Worlds/Rift. These are polished MMO with a budget at best half TOR (supposedly I agree) $100-120ish millions bill.
/rant off
P.S.: let's just hope it was only a miss step soon to be forgotten. Long live to a FUN TOR!
Salutes to this reply.
Ahh, if only humans were so eager to learn from critique. Alas, that is mostly not how we function. We want to be so wise as to learn from advise, but in truth most of us learn from the pain of failure only. And even that only a percentage. Many just keep banging their head against a particular wall all their life.
Yes, we wish they would evolve SWTOR like that, I too think that should be the case. But we have NEVER seen that in ANY MMO ever before. And how can we expect, that which they did not learn or understand in years of development, that they learn and accept now?
The cycle is always the same. They learn when subs drop dramatically, when server merges are needed, and then they will lack the money support to make the big changes they would need and try to save it with minor fixes. Like all previous MMOs. I'd LOVE to see at least some of your points realized. SWTOR deserves a long and bright future. But other MMOs deserved that before, and they still fell into obscurity, like Vanguard or Warhammer.
Trust me, I would love nothing more to be proven wrong in a year, and say, hey they really DID listen and turn it around.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I would like to know which games that came out in the last 10 years or so had ALL (34) of these in game at launch. THEN we can compare apple to apples and not to oranges
The question you should be asking is if it bothers you that much, why do you keep playing MMOs?
There is a simple answer for every single gripe that every MMO inevitably receives. Don't play the game if it bugs you that much. Find a different hobby. Find a different game. Vote with your wallet. It really is as simple as that.
Personally, until starting the SWTOR beta in June, I hadn't played an MMO for almost two years because I started grad school. My degree was more important than a video game. I've been away from MMOs instead of jumping from game to game to game looking for the Next Big Thing or the next reminder of some overly romanticized, rose-colored fantasy of my EQ1 days. As a result, I don't get up in arms over the little nitpicks and details that set so many others' hair on fire around here.
I'll play until it's no longer fun. So far, I've gotten six months out of it, and we'll see where things go. If I stop enjoying it, I'll move on. Unless you're getting paid to develop them, life's too short to get bent out of shape over a video game.
Comments
Most of these aren't missing... they're just unnecessary. Also it makes me believe you just wanna play WoW... so please go play WoW.
1. Unnecessary.
2. Unnecessary.
3. Pretty sure it's in the works.
4. Not bad to have, but ultimately unnecessary.
5. Unnecessary.
6. I think this is in the works.
7. There's ships, so why?
8. Wouldn't mind being able to furnish the ship and make it unique, but it's not overly needed.
9. Unnecessary.
10. Uh..??
11. It's more complex than most MMO's already... have you and/or your crew gather stuff, make some stuff, reverse engineering and learn new, better ways to make that piece of gear, etc.
12 - 17. Unnecessary and/or stupid. Especially the PvP Arenas.
18. We do need this, and I'm sure it is coming at some point.
19. Probably on the way.
20 - 22. Unnecessary.
23. This one is coming.
24 - 25. Unnecessary.
26. Already in the game.
27. Unnecessary.
28. I've been socializing quite a bit either talking in general, or joining groups for flashpoints, heroic areas, etc. But if you mean a reason to socialize outside of combat, then sure, that would be nice.
29. Agree here.
30. Unnecessary.
31. Already in the game.
32. Unnecessary.
33. Unnecessary.
34. Don't know what you're going for with this.
------
A lot of these points suggest you either haven't played the game, or you didn't play passed the starter area.
Interesting how mostly everyone focused on THE list.
Now for the little story, the list is here to point at the obvious:
How can you pretend being innovative if you're lacking most of the basis from all working and desired (at east by some) features... when for your arguing you have not much more than Voiced over dialogs and speaking companions?
One can certainly be nitpicking about [insert feature name here], thing is others MMO have it. Any player can live without let's say, gear dyes, or LFD/G tool or even a customizable UI, or even everything in the list. However when your game do lacks most of them, please don't pretend you are innovative. You aren't.
TOR is a fun game, still it's far from innovative. Or would I say, it's the first MMO innovating by not having so many common MMO features at launch.
You can be innovative in areas. Just because you miss basic features, I agree some on that list are needed some are just a waste of time for developers, doesn't mean you can't be innovative.
How is it innovative to have the same exact features that other games have, and which took YEARS of development in some cases before they ever emerged?
Some of those features on your list are either meaningless fluff or can wait for expansions, just like they were introduced in later versions of previous games. They're not mandatory. Can people still play the game? Yes? Then it doesn't matter if those features are in on Day 1 or not.
just because some MMOs took years to come up with some of those features doesn't mean they took long to implement or even create.. many just never thought of it or it was a feature MMOs had no seen yet. It will matter a lot if the game starts losing a lot of people after this month because it didn't include basic features from other MMOs.. granted maybe you don't care, hell I don't care about a couple of them but I'm sure there are people out there that will leave because several of those are not in the game... pretty sure there goal is getting as many people ot subscribe to the game as possible not drive people somewhere else in 3 months.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Not. The. Point.
The fact is, a lot of the things on that list are either meaningless or weren't in previous games when those games first launched. Show me a single game on this site that had all of them on Day 1.
It's stupid to demand a laundry list like that be in a game on Day 1 when to my knowledge that has never happened in any previous MMO, and I've been playing these games since 1999. Further, demanding a laundry list of things that others have done before ISN'T INNOVATION. It's demanding convenience or fluff becaue X game had it and you got used to it.
you'd be suprised how many people feel this stuff is not meaningless.. seriously are you that blind you think there are not plenty of people out there that feel lack of convienence features is game breaking to them? some people may be on the fence about the game as well and don't like many aspects then see how much is missing and just say screw it I'll go on to something else.. most of this stuff does what? gives you options.. people like options.. people especially like options in MMO's people like not to be stuck with a UI they can't do anything to.. people like not looking like a clone to not even just other people around them but to the NPCS!... people like being able to tailor there character how they want.. people like options in classes so you aren't stuck with the same thing all day everyday... it's simple people like options.. and I bet money the lack of options in this game is going to drive a lot of people away
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Here's a shocking, controversial idea -- why don't we let Bioware actually update the damned game for a while, and see where they're going to go?
The game just launched less than a month ago. FFS, can we at least let the devs get through the free month and start releasing update patches and new content? This whole line of complaint is the perfect embodiment oft he "Instant Gratification" whine that people on these boards are always going on about. Yes, it's not in the game now. Boo hoo. For all we know, some of them might end up in the game sooner rather than later, but we won't know that until Bioware actually start updating the damn thing.
Subscribe or don't. I don't work for Bioware so it doesn't matter to me. But at least allow them to develop the game the way they want to. Is that so hard?
This idiot thinks I spent 60 dollars, because I wanted it to fail? Oh boy, that's intelligent leadership.
it should matter to you if people want to stay or not.. it's going to be a lonely place if everyone bolts ain't it?... funny thing about MMOs for a lot of people is if they don't like it at first they will leave.. why wait around paying for months till the game may or may not fix or add many features... it's great 6 months down the road if it's up to par with the MMO aspects of other games but what could happen by then? you got other games coming out with new ideas.. maybe it's just me but games should grab you at the start and for some people its these little things that do it.. believe it or not but it's just how things are.. Sorry if you can't accept times have changed we are not in 2004 anymore people do and should expect more from there MMOs year after year.. if we don't then how do things progress? should we just settle for eq or wow clones for the next 20 years?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Here is the list of stuff that is missing and will make me stop playing / subscribing at end level:
Beast Master (even the ability to control a pet, but would be awesome if you could create your own like in SWG)
Chronicles / Story creation tool
Player Cities
Harvesting
Better and more rewarding Crafting
Huge areas of space to explore - Even STO does it better than SWTOR, with far less staff and less money and less time to get it done.
Seasonal Events
Mission Terminals - Individually they were all basically the same, but when they mixed with the spawns in the wild, no 2 missions were ever the same.
8 player multiplayer vehicles
or things like it, as without it there is just nothing to mess around with between doing the story based quests.
I have no interest in PVPing or raiding, but used to like doing the above stuff in SWG, and could not get enough of it.
Yes, a lot of people have been saying they are not going to sub at the end of 30 days because there is just too much missing. Other MMOs have not been all complete, and added later, but SWTOR has been the most lacking so far. It is just voice over story based questing like other MMOs and nothing else worthwile in it, and getting characters through to max level has been extremely quick and short.
In LOTRO, SWG, Aion, WOW, EQ2 etc etc it has been a jaw dropping experience just to roam the lands. In SWTOR it is move from point A-B-C-B-A-D etc and just a dull boring lifeless journey, and nothing to make you stop and admire the view and take things in slowly. Twin suns in SWG on tatooine - breath taking
I am sure they plan on adding things, but it is not going to help some people after the 30 days are up. If it is more story basd quests they just plan on adding, and no tinkering side stuff, and can be done in a week, then it might be best to sub after every fourth update. SWG had a tonne of things to do, and even if they added no more content all the systems in the game was enough to keep the players amused by themselves.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
My Little Ponies + WoW clone + exorbitant voice acting!
Sounds like a recipe for game of the year!
Ya the game is fun in only one way, story, beyond that it makes SWG look like a well rounded game no wonder why they killed it.Sadly that's the idea. So much revolved around story that the game has been delivered without the rest.
^ This.
As a player I'm really looking forward the future additions to TOR but I'm also a paying subscriber and my play time is limited.
There are already other well polished MMO with much bigger content. There's also a few other interesting MMO to be published in a not so far future. You have to have it now, not in 6 month. There's no such thing as a second launch for an MMO.
I think the point that the OP was trying to make is that NOT ONLY does the game have little new innovation... but it doesn't even have a whole plethora of things that it would be nice to have at least at least half of.
In other words is is the 'opposite' of innovative. (I use opposite in a very loose way here). It doesn't take a typical mmo and add more innovate features... it actually lacks many features present in other games.
..and sure you're right.. no MMO has this full list. I don't think that was actually what he was asking for.
(the above does not necessary reflect my own views.. I only played beta for a short while.. im just trying to clarify the point the OP was making)
As an aside, in many of the recent flame wars I've seen, Ive noticed this tendancy for people to defend a new game when it has a poor launch (SWTOR by most accounts didnt) or lacks features of older games. (i.e... WoW has had several years to perfect things and add features). In any other business you wouldn't accept such excuses.
Say you use a gym.. it has a swimming pool and sauna and charges a reasonable fee. You decide to check out a new gym. The monthly fee is the same.. but you notice that it has no pool or sauna. You tell the reception person that you wont be joining their gym because it offers less features for the same price. Would it then be reasonable for them (or a nearby customer) to argue with you and say... well were just a new gym.. we haven't had time to build a pool and sauna yet... it wont be ready until next year, but you should still pay the same fee and leave your current gym. No, it absolutely wouldn't unless they were offering a temporarily lower monthly fee.
Why do we take this rubbish from MMO's?
unless you are FFXIV:) but pretty sure most people have already let that ship sail though... but at least they went F2P till they felt the game was finished
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Well, you can go different routes with that example. For example: the new gym is closer to your home, your friends and buddies work out there and it's more fun to train together with them, the atmosphere and vibe of the place is more to your liking than the other older gyms, you like the crowd hanging around there, it has a friendlier more encouraging culture there, they have specialised training programs that you're interested in and that the other gym(s) didn't offer... so many factors that can play a role in decisionmaking.
To translate things to SWTOR: it offers a SW/KOTOR vibe that a person can enjoy, it provides a questing experience that to those interested provide a more immersive and engaging experience than questing in other MMO's, it offers the options instanced PvP, open world PvP, FFA PvP as well as objective based faction PvP where MMO's like LotrO and Aion don't offer that in such variety, it has an entertaining and well integrated Companion system, it has a different-than-usual crafting mechanic and system, it has a plethora of group/duo content, the large explorable worlds and the dungeons and raid content that might be expected of an AAA MMORPG, etc. In short, it offers its own stuff and distinctions, just like other AAA MMORPG's."We knew that there was going to be people who wanted us to fail. But that's just the nature of the game. If you're going to build a huge game and try to go out to a lot of people, you're going to have people who just react poorly."
That quote right there shows just how out of touch with reality the development team of this game is. It is little wonder that all the numerous problems that were reported in beta have been ignored: those people just want the game to fail. How conveninient.
Nobody goes out and pays good money for a game becasue they want it to fail; this is comon sense. People offer criticism because they hope you have the open-mindedness, maturity and commitment to quality to make the necessary changes to fix problems and improve the game. Your subscribers are not out to get you.
Instead, I have never seen a game whose basic design displays such a staggering lack of common sense. I am not talking about bugs, though there are penty of those, or broken game mechanics, though there is plenty of that, as well. I am talking about fundamental, common sense stuff like not using tiny, illegible fonts to display text, a chat box that doesn't constantly get in the way or that at least has a clickthrough option so there is no effect if you accidentally click it, crafting missions like Underwold Trading that often don't give you the option to get the metals you need, but instead offer companion gifts and fabrics you don't need, and recognizing that people who are not masochists do not enjoy being frustrated, aggravated or having their time wasted. Whoever thought a 30 minute balloon ride to get a datacron was a fun idea needs to quit the industry.
Having to go through 10 minutes of running and cutscenes just to mail a letter from my ship, then having to do the same to come back...whose brilliant idea was this? Getting knocked off your speeder, knocked on your ass for good measure and being forced to fight near 100 percent of the time you come in range of mobs you'd rather bypass is supposed to be fun? The frustrating GTN is so poorly designed it never should have made it past the drawing board, let alone through Beta and on into the game. While we're on the subject whose briliant idea was it to have your companions constantly interrupt you while using the crappy GTN or anything else? No doubt the people who complained about these things just want to destroy the game, as I must surely do as well, since I love wasting my money.
The game is plagued by this kind of anal-retentive MMO BS that gets added into games by developers who think being frustrated and aggravated is fun. It is not.
The claim to be "innovative" is particularly delusional. This game isn't a WoW clone, it is a Star Wars mod for WoW. They copied just about everything WoW did to the nth degree, and it shows in every little detail. The worst part, is they mindlessly copied all the stupid, furstrating and aggravating aspects of WoW without a single thought apparently as to whether this stuff actually adds to the player experience or not. Common sense dictates that people didn't desert WoW just to play a game that has mirrored to a tee a lot of WoW's flaws...even some of the bugs are the same...with little to none of its polish.
Valis keeps kicking my ass, what to do?
"We knew that there was going to be people who wanted us to fail. But that's just the nature of the game. If you're going to build a huge game and try to go out to a lot of people, you're going to have people who just react poorly."
He should have known better than to post something like this. This reminds me of a Paul Barnet talking about WAR after game launch.
Haters gonna hate bro!
http://wowblog.grimmlabs.com/archives/634
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
Salutes to this reply.
Ahh, if only humans were so eager to learn from critique. Alas, that is mostly not how we function. We want to be so wise as to learn from advise, but in truth most of us learn from the pain of failure only. And even that only a percentage. Many just keep banging their head against a particular wall all their life.
Yes, we wish they would evolve SWTOR like that, I too think that should be the case. But we have NEVER seen that in ANY MMO ever before. And how can we expect, that which they did not learn or understand in years of development, that they learn and accept now?
The cycle is always the same. They learn when subs drop dramatically, when server merges are needed, and then they will lack the money support to make the big changes they would need and try to save it with minor fixes. Like all previous MMOs. I'd LOVE to see at least some of your points realized. SWTOR deserves a long and bright future. But other MMOs deserved that before, and they still fell into obscurity, like Vanguard or Warhammer.
Trust me, I would love nothing more to be proven wrong in a year, and say, hey they really DID listen and turn it around.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
SWG
MMO History: 2528 days in SW:G
[CENTER][URL=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm][IMG]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/11.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
The question you should be asking is if it bothers you that much, why do you keep playing MMOs?
There is a simple answer for every single gripe that every MMO inevitably receives. Don't play the game if it bugs you that much. Find a different hobby. Find a different game. Vote with your wallet. It really is as simple as that.
Personally, until starting the SWTOR beta in June, I hadn't played an MMO for almost two years because I started grad school. My degree was more important than a video game. I've been away from MMOs instead of jumping from game to game to game looking for the Next Big Thing or the next reminder of some overly romanticized, rose-colored fantasy of my EQ1 days. As a result, I don't get up in arms over the little nitpicks and details that set so many others' hair on fire around here.
I'll play until it's no longer fun. So far, I've gotten six months out of it, and we'll see where things go. If I stop enjoying it, I'll move on. Unless you're getting paid to develop them, life's too short to get bent out of shape over a video game.