You can call me a lemming if you like, but until we see it in released form, I will trust Anet when they say "It wont be p2w".
Your call, but I'm glad you wont be playing! Bye bye!
You are beginning to sound like a broken record now. Although people have as much right as to be skeptical about cash shop as much you have the right to blindly believe what Anet says. i have no idea at what point your belief became better or superior than others.
Do you trust someone when they first talk to you and tell you that their name is Jeff? Or do you say "You're a liar! I'm not gonna believe you!"
Really, if you don't operate on initial trust until you have the facts, then you are clearly just a pessimist, plain and simple. It's not normal behavior.
So it is ab normal to be skeptical and not blindly believe just anyone or whatever they tell you? saying 'my name is Jeff' is not same 'my name is Jeff and i the best friend you can ever find'..for all i know he could be a serial killer.
I'm just glad all the seething pessimists wont be buying it! I'd much rather have a community that sees it for what it is than sees their opinion of it through their perspective of fear and could be's.
Thanks for keeping the negative nancies out, Anet! The community is better for it! Let's just hope they stick to their guns and never try it.
This is my point about being "corrected" or shown the "error of our ways"
While much more moderate than some, it's still the same.
Somewhere, they judge "I don't want a cash shop in this game" to be "Seething Pessimist"
BUT......only where GW2 is concerned.
LOL
Naw, you take it to the level of "it will ruin the game". Not once have you only said "it COULD be bad, and I would prefer it not to be".
Nope, you have always made the conclusion.
So yes, you are pessimistic, seething, and fearful. That's ok, I'm fine with you staying out! You'd be much more of a contribution to another game with more people like you. Whatever you find, I hope you enjoy it.
And I would prefer to play a game that wasn't full of lemmings that just accepted whatever the developer throws at you while saying "Thank you sir may I have another!"
The cash shop, in the current form leaked from the beta, is a disgrace.
So did Anet confirm the leaked CS Beta info with the media that its official?
You can call me a lemming if you like, but until we see it in released form, I will trust Anet when they say "It wont be p2w".
Your call, but I'm glad you wont be playing! Bye bye!
You are beginning to sound like a broken record now. Although people have as much right as to be skeptical about cash shop as much you have the right to blindly believe what Anet says. i have no idea at what point your belief became better or superior than others.
As opposed people here proclaiming "ohhh it's P2W, fail fail fail" when they are the ignorant ones? Whose the blinded?
The people who beleive in ANet or those who fail to realize that a cash shop with time efficiency items =/= P2W and are tooting their blaring horn of ignorance.
Threads like these as a reflection of MMORPG.com is why this site is a laughing stock of any serious game discussions or debates.
And yes because it is a line in stone that cash shop is going to be the same after release and in future. A lot of us who have been following GW2 has seen this suden evolution of cash shop. And i cna understand why people are worried.
What you are saying is believe in ANET or GTFO... is that what you call serious game discussion or debate?
Missing out a potentialy great game because of cash shop which isn't even P2W is a shame.
Destroying a possibly great game by implementing a pay2win cash shop is a shame.
Can't even give a reason using GW 2's mechanics why it's p2w.
You can give out a korean p2w mechanic because of the grinds and slow leveling but please for the love of God let's discuss these(In GW2) mechanics and p2w.
If you're a company that sells XP boosts in your shop, how do you sell more?
If you're a company that sells health pots, how do you sell more?
It has nothing to do with P2W it has to do with the quality of the game. It has to do with them fucking with mechanics in the background to make cash shop sales.
Every one is affected, it doens't matter whether or not you spend a dime.
To sell more XP you introduce a reason that people would need to accelerate their XP gain. These are game wide changes. Turbine killed a specific materials drop to open a hole in their armor progression and sell that piece of armor in their store. It affects subs as well as free players. This is how you make money in a F2P game. The whole underlying mechanic becomes an engine to get people to the cash shop - to make their money. Without a cash shop, games make money via subscription. To keep subscriptions you make things fun. The game engine is used for that purpose, not to drive microtransactions.
It's because their cash shop is optional.
It's for those who still don't have time, I mean shit going for one skill point with no xp boost you can go from level 4 - 9 lol.
You don't need that shit and again point out their mechanics that enforce those.
The effects of the mechanic changes that drive others to the cash shop aren't optional. They're game wide. You're not playing an adventure game, you're playing a cash shop with an adventure skin.
Do you not know what the definition of time convienience is? It means less time to accomplish something. Name one item form the shop that is MANDATORY.
.... gues what? You can't because there are not mandatory item.
Leveling in GW1 was a joke or more accuratly an after thought, you leveled before you even completed your first campain, hell even halfway through it you were caped. Not to mention you get downscaled to lesser content so it makes rushing to lvl cap irrelevent.
You can call me a lemming if you like, but until we see it in released form, I will trust Anet when they say "It wont be p2w".
Your call, but I'm glad you wont be playing! Bye bye!
You are beginning to sound like a broken record now. Although people have as much right as to be skeptical about cash shop as much you have the right to blindly believe what Anet says. i have no idea at what point your belief became better or superior than others.
Do you trust someone when they first talk to you and tell you that their name is Jeff? Or do you say "You're a liar! I'm not gonna believe you!"
Really, if you don't operate on initial trust until you have the facts, then you are clearly just a pessimist, plain and simple. It's not normal behavior.
So it is not normal to be skeptical and not blindly believe just anyone or whatever they tell you? saying 'my name is Jeff' is not same 'my name is Jeff and i the best friend you can ever find'..for all i know he could be a serial killer.
You can operate every assumption you have to make off of fear if you want and not believe a single word that is said.
And that's how you anti-gw2-cash shop folks are turning out. You don't even have solid facts, and yet are concluding the opposite of everything that Anet has shown and said. Talk about pessimism turning you to the more unlikely conclusion jsut because you are afraid. Sheesh.
You can call me a lemming if you like, but until we see it in released form, I will trust Anet when they say "It wont be p2w".
Your call, but I'm glad you wont be playing! Bye bye!
You are beginning to sound like a broken record now. Although people have as much right as to be skeptical about cash shop as much you have the right to blindly believe what Anet says. i have no idea at what point your belief became better or superior than others.
Do you trust someone when they first talk to you and tell you that their name is Jeff? Or do you say "You're a liar! I'm not gonna believe you!"
Really, if you don't operate on initial trust until you have the facts, then you are clearly just a pessimist, plain and simple. It's not normal behavior.
Many of those angry now DID trust them. And breaking a trust makes people particularly annoyed. For years Anet said "cosmetic only" very clearly and unambiguoulsly. Then, just a few weeks ago, they surreptitiously change that to "no items that can not be obtained within game through the investment of time."
That is a HUGE change and in many ways makes it no different than a typical Korean F2P grinder. "Investment of time" is what we call in MMOs "grind" if you haven't figured that out yet.
But yet the Anet fans said "No, trust them still" but then the beta leaks came and it is very clearly pay2win grind reducing items in the cash shop. Those who trusted Anet are let down yet again.
The anger is justified. And Anet no longer deserves any trust. Humpty dumpty cannot be put back together again I'm afraid...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
You can call me a lemming if you like, but until we see it in released form, I will trust Anet when they say "It wont be p2w".
Your call, but I'm glad you wont be playing! Bye bye!
You are beginning to sound like a broken record now. Although people have as much right as to be skeptical about cash shop as much you have the right to blindly believe what Anet says. i have no idea at what point your belief became better or superior than others.
Do you trust someone when they first talk to you and tell you that their name is Jeff? Or do you say "You're a liar! I'm not gonna believe you!"
Really, if you don't operate on initial trust until you have the facts, then you are clearly just a pessimist, plain and simple. It's not normal behavior.
So it is not normal to be skeptical and not blindly believe just anyone or whatever they tell you? saying 'my name is Jeff' is not same 'my name is Jeff and i the best friend you can ever find'..for all i know he could be a serial killer.
SOME of the people who want to close their eyes and not consider that Anet's goal is to maximize profit sound like Apple fans. The game doesn't have a F2P item shop because it's better for you as a gamer or consumer - they're out to make as much money as possible without pissing you off. Here's some Kool-Aide
Originally posted by Thupli You can call me a lemming if you like, but until we see it in released form, I will trust Anet when they say "It wont be p2w". Your call, but I'm glad you wont be playing! Bye bye!
You are beginning to sound like a broken record now. Although people have as much right as to be skeptical about cash shop as much you have the right to blindly believe what Anet says. i have no idea at what point your belief became better or superior than others.
Do you trust someone when they first talk to you and tell you that their name is Jeff? Or do you say "You're a liar! I'm not gonna believe you!"
Really, if you don't operate on initial trust until you have the facts, then you are clearly just a pessimist, plain and simple. It's not normal behavior.
Initial tust you say?
ANet made this big huge point about being B2P and went on to establish just what B2P means.
Now, when it comes down to it. there is no B2P...not in the definition that was established. Anet played off the concepts that the players had established. While they can truthfully say they did not lie. They did play semantics in order to capture us.
When it all boils down, there is not B2P model (As was originally established as a concept) It's a pretty standard F2P model with a box fee.
Initial Trust......yeah.
If you haven't heard of "The Camel's Nose" metaphor yet, you should google it.
You can call me a lemming if you like, but until we see it in released form, I will trust Anet when they say "It wont be p2w".
Your call, but I'm glad you wont be playing! Bye bye!
You are beginning to sound like a broken record now. Although people have as much right as to be skeptical about cash shop as much you have the right to blindly believe what Anet says. i have no idea at what point your belief became better or superior than others.
Do you trust someone when they first talk to you and tell you that their name is Jeff? Or do you say "You're a liar! I'm not gonna believe you!"
Really, if you don't operate on initial trust until you have the facts, then you are clearly just a pessimist, plain and simple. It's not normal behavior.
So it is not normal to be skeptical and not blindly believe just anyone or whatever they tell you? saying 'my name is Jeff' is not same 'my name is Jeff and i the best friend you can ever find'..for all i know he could be a serial killer.
You can operate every assumption you have to make off of fear if you want and not believe a single word that is said.
And that's how you anti-gw2-cash shop folks are turning out. You don't even have solid facts, and yet are concluding the opposite of everything that Anet has shown and said. Talk about pessimism turning you to the more unlikely conclusion jsut because you are afraid. Sheesh.
Neither do you have any facts other than the word of Anet, a word which can change in seconds.
You can call me a lemming if you like, but until we see it in released form, I will trust Anet when they say "It wont be p2w".
Your call, but I'm glad you wont be playing! Bye bye!
You are beginning to sound like a broken record now. Although people have as much right as to be skeptical about cash shop as much you have the right to blindly believe what Anet says. i have no idea at what point your belief became better or superior than others.
As opposed people here proclaiming "ohhh it's P2W, fail fail fail" when they are the ignorant ones? Whose the blinded?
The people who beleive in ANet or those who fail to realize that a cash shop with time efficiency items =/= P2W and are tooting their blaring horn of ignorance.
Threads like these as a reflection of MMORPG.com is why this site is a laughing stock of any serious game discussions or debates.
And yes because it is a line in stone that cash shop is going to be the same after release and in future. A lot of us who have been following GW2 has seen this suden evolution of cash shop. And i cna understand why people are worried.
What you are saying is believe in ANET or GTFO... is that what you call serious game discussion or debate?
There is no debate because people are fucking ignorant here. They're calling bloddy mary that it's P2W P2W P2W when in fact it's not. The store reflects exactly what their statement in MT was. Everything is convinience and time efficiency items or fluss or cosmetic items. Nowhere is there any advantage items that is what a P2W shop is.
Exception I see is a ressurection stone but even that thats a convinience item since you can run back while the fight is in progress.
You can call me a lemming if you like, but until we see it in released form, I will trust Anet when they say "It wont be p2w".
Your call, but I'm glad you wont be playing! Bye bye!
You are beginning to sound like a broken record now. Although people have as much right as to be skeptical about cash shop as much you have the right to blindly believe what Anet says. i have no idea at what point your belief became better or superior than others.
As opposed people here proclaiming "ohhh it's P2W, fail fail fail" when they are the ignorant ones? Whose the blinded?
The people who beleive in ANet or those who fail to realize that a cash shop with time efficiency items =/= P2W and are tooting their blaring horn of ignorance.
Threads like these as a reflection of MMORPG.com is why this site is a laughing stock of any serious game discussions or debates.
And yes because it is a line in stone that cash shop is going to be the same after release and in future. A lot of us who have been following GW2 has seen this suden evolution of cash shop. And i cna understand why people are worried.
What you are saying is believe in ANET or GTFO... is that what you call serious game discussion or debate?
There is no debate because people are fucking ignorant here. They're calling bloddy mary that it's P2W P2W P2W when in fact it's note. The store reflects exactly what their statement in MT was. Everything is convinience and time efficiency items or fluss or cosmetic items. Nowhere is there any advantage items that is what a P2W shop is.
Exception I see is a ressurection stone but even that thats a convinience item since you can run back while the fight is in progress.
The discussion is not just about P2W but allowing real money trading in MMO which generally puts off a lot of people.
What you are saying is believe in ANET or GTFO... is that what you call serious game discussion or debate?
Nope, it's that if you are going to pretend like what you THINK it's going to be like will most CERTAINLY be how the game is, it's better if you not play, so GTFO. And sadly, there is evidence to the opposite conclusion of what you negativites are spouting, but you seem to think that it isn't so. If you folks would read, that would be a good start.
The cash shop discussion is getting seriously out of control. Some people like it some don't, can't we just agree that everyone has the right to their opinion and the right to voice it? Stop trying to ridicule people who have a different opinion, it's never going to lead anywhere.
The cash shop discussion is getting seriously out of control. Some people like it some don't, can't we just agree that everyone has the right to their opinion and the right to voice it? Stop trying to ridicule people who have a different opinion, it's never going to lead anywhere.
Originally posted by Thupli
Originally posted by Ankur
What you are saying is believe in ANET or GTFO... is that what you call serious game discussion or debate?
Nope, it's that if you are going to pretend like what you THINK it's going to be like will most CERTAINLY be how the game is, it's better if you not play, so GTFO. And sadly, there is evidence to the opposite conclusion of what you negativites are spouting, but you seem to think that it isn't so. If you folks would read, that would be a good start.
You can call me a lemming if you like, but until we see it in released form, I will trust Anet when they say "It wont be p2w".
Your call, but I'm glad you wont be playing! Bye bye!
You are beginning to sound like a broken record now. Although people have as much right as to be skeptical about cash shop as much you have the right to blindly believe what Anet says. i have no idea at what point your belief became better or superior than others.
Do you trust someone when they first talk to you and tell you that their name is Jeff? Or do you say "You're a liar! I'm not gonna believe you!"
Really, if you don't operate on initial trust until you have the facts, then you are clearly just a pessimist, plain and simple. It's not normal behavior.
Initial tust you say?
ANet made this big huge point about being B2P and went on to establish just what B2P means.
Now, when it comes down to it. there is no B2P...not in the definition that was established. Anet played off the concepts that the players had established. While they can truthfully say they did not lie. They did play semantics in order to capture us.
When it all boils down, there is not B2P model (As was originally established as a concept) It's a pretty standard F2P model with a box fee.
Initial Trust......yeah.
B2P by definition you play all the content available and guess what... YOU CAN IN GW2!!! They are fulfilling exactly what they said they were.
Now if they did a DDO store then that would be a different matter as you can't access certain content unless you purchase the packs.
You can experiance they game to it's fullest without spending a dime in the store, no ifs ands or buts. That is a B2P model. All the accessories, fluffs, conviniences are by rights theirs to set up a store on.
Neither do you have any facts other than the word of Anet, a word which can change in seconds.
I see, you mean other than GW1 cash shop, multiple posts on their website, and the fact that even in the leaked info on the cash shop nothing is pay to win, and the fact that with everything else they have said that have lived up to?
SOME of the people who want to close their eyes and not consider that Anet's goal is to maximize profit sound like Apple fans. The game doesn't have a F2P item shop because it's better for you as a gamer or consumer - they're out to make as much money as possible without pissing you off. Here's some Kool-Aide
I should add, though it is implied, that they will keep going all the way to P2W if you let them. If they can spin it so the trusting minds accept it, they'll go there. This is the reason to put up a stink now - while it's in beta - before everything is set as a precedent.
I would have no problem with a cash shop game that had a sub option if they would keep the drops and mechanics seperate between sub players and free players. It would become immediately apparent upon comparison however, how they were gimping gameplay to drive people to the shop and therefore won't ever happen.
What you are saying is believe in ANET or GTFO... is that what you call serious game discussion or debate?
Nope, it's that if you are going to pretend like what you THINK it's going to be like will most CERTAINLY be how the game is, it's better if you not play, so GTFO. And sadly, there is evidence to the opposite conclusion of what you negativites are spouting, but you seem to think that it isn't so. If you folks would read, that would be a good start.
You seriously need some new material to insult people now other than repeating GTFO.
neither do you have any proof of the future of cash shop nor do those who dislike cash shop... it is all matetr of opinion. Your opinion is not better or gives you any authroity to insult people for voicing their concern.
The cash shop discussion is getting seriously out of control. Some people like it some don't, can't we just agree that everyone has the right to their opinion and the right to voice it? Stop trying to ridicule people who have a different opinion, it's never going to lead anywhere.
Maybe if people would stop harping WRONG information there wouldn't be backlash. Usually spreading mis-information is a bad thing and get's corrected. You think we should give people a pass that label GW2 as a "P2W" game when the cash shop looks nothing like a game that is "p2w"? That's just an ostritch in the sand mentality, imo.
Nope, it's that if you are going to pretend like what you THINK it's going to be like will most CERTAINLY be how the game is, it's better if you not play, so GTFO. And sadly, there is evidence to the opposite conclusion of what you negativites are spouting, but you seem to think that it isn't so. If you folks would read, that would be a good start.
hypocritical. You are doing the exact same thing.
Evidence of what? Sanctioned gold selling? Yeah that's a plus.
Neither do you have any facts other than the word of Anet, a word which can change in seconds.
I see, you mean other than GW1 cash shop, multiple posts on their website, and the fact that even in the leaked info on the cash shop nothing is pay to win, and the fact that with everything else they have said that have lived up to?
Yeah, we are solely going on their word.
Someone please help these "free thinkers".
Comparing GW1 to GW2 doesn't even make sense considering the amount of money invested in GW2 is much more than GW1 hence which means more need to generate revenue and more extensive cash shop than GW1.
I was and still planning on playing, but i'm far less enjoying it now.
Also they totally broke the confidence i had about their politic and words, because it is clear the cash shop is very very similar to any other f2p shop.
What you are saying is believe in ANET or GTFO... is that what you call serious game discussion or debate?
Nope, it's that if you are going to pretend like what you THINK it's going to be like will most CERTAINLY be how the game is, it's better if you not play, so GTFO. And sadly, there is evidence to the opposite conclusion of what you negativites are spouting, but you seem to think that it isn't so. If you folks would read, that would be a good start.
You seriously need some new material to insult people now other than repeating GTFO.
neither do you have any proof of the future of cash shop nor do those who dislike cash shop... it is all matetr of opinion. Your opinion is not better or gives you any authroity to insult people for voicing their concern.
See post 92.
And are you really saying that:
If there is no information either way, it's better to assume that Anet is lying. Really? Just wow.
You can call me a lemming if you like, but until we see it in released form, I will trust Anet when they say "It wont be p2w".
Your call, but I'm glad you wont be playing! Bye bye!
You are beginning to sound like a broken record now. Although people have as much right as to be skeptical about cash shop as much you have the right to blindly believe what Anet says. i have no idea at what point your belief became better or superior than others.
Do you trust someone when they first talk to you and tell you that their name is Jeff? Or do you say "You're a liar! I'm not gonna believe you!"
Really, if you don't operate on initial trust until you have the facts, then you are clearly just a pessimist, plain and simple. It's not normal behavior.
Initial tust you say?
ANet made this big huge point about being B2P and went on to establish just what B2P means.
Now, when it comes down to it. there is no B2P...not in the definition that was established. Anet played off the concepts that the players had established. While they can truthfully say they did not lie. They did play semantics in order to capture us.
When it all boils down, there is not B2P model (As was originally established as a concept) It's a pretty standard F2P model with a box fee.
Initial Trust......yeah.
B2P by definition you play all the content available and guess what... YOU CAN IN GW2!!! They are fulfilling exactly what they said they were.
Now if they did a DDO store then that would be a different matter as you can't access certain content unless you purchase the packs.
You can experiance they game to it's fullest without spending a dime in the store, no ifs ands or buts. That is a B2P model. All the accessories, fluffs, conviniences are by rights theirs to set up a store on.
A lot of Korean grinders are the same way, and they are free. Until this GW2 cash grab most in the MMO community universally considered the Korean grinders pay2win. That is, paying to reduce grind is a form of pay2win. Now apparently the Korean grinders are esport PVP according to GW2 fans.
I think the GW2 fans need to do a little research in how many of the pay2win MMOs out there work. Many of them actually allow you to grind pretty much everything, but paying real money reduces the grind. This is exactly what GW2 is doing, except GW2 is charging you $60 when most other games like this are free.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Well, lets see how profitable the cash shop will now have to be. Lets assume this poll can be attributed to the genral population of GW2 players. When i looked at the results 17% of people who planned on buying the game no longer will due to the overeaching (not just account services and cosmetic) cash shop. If we assume that this game would have sold as well as GW1 (roughly 7 million). This game has then lost 1,190,000 players from this little cash shop fiasco. Which means that Arenanet has just cost themselves $71,400,000 (assuming of course that all of the players who have changed there mind about playing because of this cash shop revelation were only planning on purchasing the regular $60 version of the game, so the real amount is likely higher). Now again this figure is arrived at through a number of assumptions, but all projections are. So now to maintain the same level of profit that they could have otherwise expected before the cash shop leak they will have to sell 5,712,000,000 gems (at $5 for 400). Each remaining player in this projection will now have to actually buy (not trade for gold) around 1000 ($12.50) gems each to make back the money to compensate for the players it lost.
In light of these figures it seems that the cash shop was a badly calculated overreach. A cash shop with account services, extra inventory/storage, and cosmetics would have not lost them players and would have been profitable without suffering from a drop in potential buyers. There isnt a single thing in the current cash shop leak that i would purchase that wouldnt have been available in the purely cosmetic/account service cash shop (charachter slots, inventory/storage, maybe a server transfer). Buying keys for locked boxes, or boosters i wouldnt do even if they came down in price to 1 gem each. Same with the megaphone (which i see as troubling given the implication of there possibly not being a general chat in game). I only hope that Arenanet does the math and gives this some serious thought. Potentially losing over 71 milion dollars for a questionable gamble that could seriously damage ones reputation even if successful seems like a bad idea to me.
That being said, i will still buy and play the game at release, but depending on how this cash shop affects the in game experience will determine if ill be around for expansions.
Comments
So it is ab normal to be skeptical and not blindly believe just anyone or whatever they tell you? saying 'my name is Jeff' is not same 'my name is Jeff and i the best friend you can ever find'..for all i know he could be a serial killer.
So did Anet confirm the leaked CS Beta info with the media that its official?
Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language
And yes because it is a line in stone that cash shop is going to be the same after release and in future. A lot of us who have been following GW2 has seen this suden evolution of cash shop. And i cna understand why people are worried.
What you are saying is believe in ANET or GTFO... is that what you call serious game discussion or debate?
Do you not know what the definition of time convienience is? It means less time to accomplish something. Name one item form the shop that is MANDATORY.
.... gues what? You can't because there are not mandatory item.
Leveling in GW1 was a joke or more accuratly an after thought, you leveled before you even completed your first campain, hell even halfway through it you were caped. Not to mention you get downscaled to lesser content so it makes rushing to lvl cap irrelevent.
You can operate every assumption you have to make off of fear if you want and not believe a single word that is said.
And that's how you anti-gw2-cash shop folks are turning out. You don't even have solid facts, and yet are concluding the opposite of everything that Anet has shown and said. Talk about pessimism turning you to the more unlikely conclusion jsut because you are afraid. Sheesh.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Many of those angry now DID trust them. And breaking a trust makes people particularly annoyed. For years Anet said "cosmetic only" very clearly and unambiguoulsly. Then, just a few weeks ago, they surreptitiously change that to "no items that can not be obtained within game through the investment of time."
That is a HUGE change and in many ways makes it no different than a typical Korean F2P grinder. "Investment of time" is what we call in MMOs "grind" if you haven't figured that out yet.
But yet the Anet fans said "No, trust them still" but then the beta leaks came and it is very clearly pay2win grind reducing items in the cash shop. Those who trusted Anet are let down yet again.
The anger is justified. And Anet no longer deserves any trust. Humpty dumpty cannot be put back together again I'm afraid...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
SOME of the people who want to close their eyes and not consider that Anet's goal is to maximize profit sound like Apple fans. The game doesn't have a F2P item shop because it's better for you as a gamer or consumer - they're out to make as much money as possible without pissing you off. Here's some Kool-Aide
Initial tust you say?
ANet made this big huge point about being B2P and went on to establish just what B2P means.
Now, when it comes down to it. there is no B2P...not in the definition that was established. Anet played off the concepts that the players had established. While they can truthfully say they did not lie. They did play semantics in order to capture us.
When it all boils down, there is not B2P model (As was originally established as a concept) It's a pretty standard F2P model with a box fee.
Initial Trust......yeah.
If you haven't heard of "The Camel's Nose" metaphor yet, you should google it.
Neither do you have any facts other than the word of Anet, a word which can change in seconds.
There is no debate because people are fucking ignorant here. They're calling bloddy mary that it's P2W P2W P2W when in fact it's not. The store reflects exactly what their statement in MT was. Everything is convinience and time efficiency items or fluss or cosmetic items. Nowhere is there any advantage items that is what a P2W shop is.
Exception I see is a ressurection stone but even that thats a convinience item since you can run back while the fight is in progress.
The discussion is not just about P2W but allowing real money trading in MMO which generally puts off a lot of people.
Nope, it's that if you are going to pretend like what you THINK it's going to be like will most CERTAINLY be how the game is, it's better if you not play, so GTFO. And sadly, there is evidence to the opposite conclusion of what you negativites are spouting, but you seem to think that it isn't so. If you folks would read, that would be a good start.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
The cash shop discussion is getting seriously out of control. Some people like it some don't, can't we just agree that everyone has the right to their opinion and the right to voice it? Stop trying to ridicule people who have a different opinion, it's never going to lead anywhere.
B2P by definition you play all the content available and guess what... YOU CAN IN GW2!!! They are fulfilling exactly what they said they were.
Now if they did a DDO store then that would be a different matter as you can't access certain content unless you purchase the packs.
You can experiance they game to it's fullest without spending a dime in the store, no ifs ands or buts. That is a B2P model. All the accessories, fluffs, conviniences are by rights theirs to set up a store on.
I see, you mean other than GW1 cash shop, multiple posts on their website, and the fact that even in the leaked info on the cash shop nothing is pay to win, and the fact that with everything else they have said that have lived up to?
Yeah, we are solely going on their word.
Someone please help these "free thinkers".
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
I should add, though it is implied, that they will keep going all the way to P2W if you let them. If they can spin it so the trusting minds accept it, they'll go there. This is the reason to put up a stink now - while it's in beta - before everything is set as a precedent.
I would have no problem with a cash shop game that had a sub option if they would keep the drops and mechanics seperate between sub players and free players. It would become immediately apparent upon comparison however, how they were gimping gameplay to drive people to the shop and therefore won't ever happen.
You seriously need some new material to insult people now other than repeating GTFO.
neither do you have any proof of the future of cash shop nor do those who dislike cash shop... it is all matetr of opinion. Your opinion is not better or gives you any authroity to insult people for voicing their concern.
Maybe if people would stop harping WRONG information there wouldn't be backlash. Usually spreading mis-information is a bad thing and get's corrected. You think we should give people a pass that label GW2 as a "P2W" game when the cash shop looks nothing like a game that is "p2w"? That's just an ostritch in the sand mentality, imo.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
hypocritical.
You are doing the exact same thing.
Evidence of what? Sanctioned gold selling? Yeah that's a plus.
Comparing GW1 to GW2 doesn't even make sense considering the amount of money invested in GW2 is much more than GW1 hence which means more need to generate revenue and more extensive cash shop than GW1.
I was and still planning on playing, but i'm far less enjoying it now.
Also they totally broke the confidence i had about their politic and words, because it is clear the cash shop is very very similar to any other f2p shop.
See post 92.
And are you really saying that:
If there is no information either way, it's better to assume that Anet is lying. Really? Just wow.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
A lot of Korean grinders are the same way, and they are free. Until this GW2 cash grab most in the MMO community universally considered the Korean grinders pay2win. That is, paying to reduce grind is a form of pay2win. Now apparently the Korean grinders are esport PVP according to GW2 fans.
I think the GW2 fans need to do a little research in how many of the pay2win MMOs out there work. Many of them actually allow you to grind pretty much everything, but paying real money reduces the grind. This is exactly what GW2 is doing, except GW2 is charging you $60 when most other games like this are free.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Well, lets see how profitable the cash shop will now have to be. Lets assume this poll can be attributed to the genral population of GW2 players. When i looked at the results 17% of people who planned on buying the game no longer will due to the overeaching (not just account services and cosmetic) cash shop. If we assume that this game would have sold as well as GW1 (roughly 7 million). This game has then lost 1,190,000 players from this little cash shop fiasco. Which means that Arenanet has just cost themselves $71,400,000 (assuming of course that all of the players who have changed there mind about playing because of this cash shop revelation were only planning on purchasing the regular $60 version of the game, so the real amount is likely higher). Now again this figure is arrived at through a number of assumptions, but all projections are. So now to maintain the same level of profit that they could have otherwise expected before the cash shop leak they will have to sell 5,712,000,000 gems (at $5 for 400). Each remaining player in this projection will now have to actually buy (not trade for gold) around 1000 ($12.50) gems each to make back the money to compensate for the players it lost.
In light of these figures it seems that the cash shop was a badly calculated overreach. A cash shop with account services, extra inventory/storage, and cosmetics would have not lost them players and would have been profitable without suffering from a drop in potential buyers. There isnt a single thing in the current cash shop leak that i would purchase that wouldnt have been available in the purely cosmetic/account service cash shop (charachter slots, inventory/storage, maybe a server transfer). Buying keys for locked boxes, or boosters i wouldnt do even if they came down in price to 1 gem each. Same with the megaphone (which i see as troubling given the implication of there possibly not being a general chat in game). I only hope that Arenanet does the math and gives this some serious thought. Potentially losing over 71 milion dollars for a questionable gamble that could seriously damage ones reputation even if successful seems like a bad idea to me.
That being said, i will still buy and play the game at release, but depending on how this cash shop affects the in game experience will determine if ill be around for expansions.