You can call me a lemming if you like, but until we see it in released form, I will trust Anet when they say "It wont be p2w".
Your call, but I'm glad you wont be playing! Bye bye!
You are beginning to sound like a broken record now. Although people have as much right as to be skeptical about cash shop as much you have the right to blindly believe what Anet says. i have no idea at what point your belief became better or superior than others.
As opposed people here proclaiming "ohhh it's P2W, fail fail fail" when they are the ignorant ones? Whose the blinded?
The people who beleive in ANet or those who fail to realize that a cash shop with time efficiency items =/= P2W and are tooting their blaring horn of ignorance.
Threads like these as a reflection of MMORPG.com is why this site is a laughing stock of any serious game discussions or debates.
And yes because it is a line in stone that cash shop is going to be the same after release and in future. A lot of us who have been following GW2 has seen this suden evolution of cash shop. And i cna understand why people are worried.
What you are saying is believe in ANET or GTFO... is that what you call serious game discussion or debate?
There is no debate because people are fucking ignorant here. They're calling bloddy mary that it's P2W P2W P2W when in fact it's note. The store reflects exactly what their statement in MT was. Everything is convinience and time efficiency items or fluss or cosmetic items. Nowhere is there any advantage items that is what a P2W shop is.
Exception I see is a ressurection stone but even that thats a convinience item since you can run back while the fight is in progress.
The discussion is not just about P2W but allowing real money trading in MMO which generally puts off a lot of people.
Except people are twisting it out of context. ANet is saving people a shit ton of money by not having a P2P model which by rights they could make it one. 6 months of subs is 90 bucks which if people do indulge in the store will spend a mere fraction of that. Now what they are doing is to generate some income which people are going ballistic over. People will nitpick at anything because of their hate for a game which is the essence of the forums here.
The cash shop discussion is getting seriously out of control. Some people like it some don't, can't we just agree that everyone has the right to their opinion and the right to voice it? Stop trying to ridicule people who have a different opinion, it's never going to lead anywhere.
Maybe if people would stop harping WRONG information there wouldn't be backlash. Usually spreading mis-information is a bad thing and get's corrected. You think we should give people a pass that label GW2 as a "P2W" game when the cash shop looks nothing like a game that is "p2w"? That's just an ostritch in the sand mentality, imo.
what, if in some other universe, your opinion about the definition of P2W was WRONG?
I tell you, blind trust in a company after years of implying the game would be pure B2P sounds more ostritch like to me.
What you are saying is believe in ANET or GTFO... is that what you call serious game discussion or debate?
Nope, it's that if you are going to pretend like what you THINK it's going to be like will most CERTAINLY be how the game is, it's better if you not play, so GTFO. And sadly, there is evidence to the opposite conclusion of what you negativites are spouting, but you seem to think that it isn't so. If you folks would read, that would be a good start.
You seriously need some new material to insult people now other than repeating GTFO.
neither do you have any proof of the future of cash shop nor do those who dislike cash shop... it is all matetr of opinion. Your opinion is not better or gives you any authroity to insult people for voicing their concern.
See post 92.
And are you really saying that:
If there is no information either way, it's better to assume that Anet is lying. Really? Just wow.
Keep trying to put words in my mouth. Opposite of blind faith is not 'a liar.'
Neither do you have any facts other than the word of Anet, a word which can change in seconds.
I see, you mean other than GW1 cash shop, multiple posts on their website, and the fact that even in the leaked info on the cash shop nothing is pay to win, and the fact that with everything else they have said that have lived up to?
Yeah, we are solely going on their word.
Someone please help these "free thinkers".
Comparing GW1 to GW2 doesn't even make sense considering the amount of money invested in GW2 is much more than GW1 hence which means more need to generate revenue and more extensive cash shop than GW1.
I disagree complelely. It simply means that they have more people to fit into the same model which would generate proportionally the amount of money.
So you can still answer all of the other 3 points of evidence there, and reply to this one. I'm listening. If you do I will concede that it would be more resonable to believe they are lying.
Well, lets see how profitable the cash shop will now have to be. Lets assume this poll can be attributed to the genral population of GW2 players. When i looked at the results 17% of people who planned on buying the game no longer will due to the overeaching (not just account services and cosmetic) cash shop. If we assume that this game would have sold as well as GW1 (roughly 7 million). This game has then lost 1,190,000 players from this little cash shop fiasco. Which means that Arenanet has just cost themselves $71,400,000 (assuming of course that all of the players who have changed there mind about playing because of this cash shop revelation were only planning on purchasing the regular $60 version of the game, so the real amount is likely higher). Now again this figure is arrived at through a number of assumptions, but all projections are. So now to maintain the same level of profit that they could have otherwise expected before the cash shop leak they will have to sell 5,712,000,000 gems (at $5 for 400). Each remaining player in this projection will now have to actually buy (not trade for gold) around 1000 ($12.50) gems each to make back the money to compensate for the players it lost.
In light of these figures it seems that the cash shop was a badly calculated overreach. A cash shop with account services, extra inventory/storage, and cosmetics would have not lost them players and would have been profitable without suffering from a drop in potential buyers. There isnt a single thing in the current cash shop leak that i would purchase that wouldnt have been available in the purely cosmetic/account service cash shop (charachter slots, inventory/storage, maybe a server transfer). Buying keys for locked boxes, or boosters i wouldnt do even if they came down in price to 1 gem each. Same with the megaphone (which i see as troubling given the implication of there possibly not being a general chat in game). I only hope that Arenanet does the math and gives this some serious thought. Potentially losing over 71 milion dollars for a questionable gamble that could seriously damage ones reputation even if successful seems like a bad idea to me.
That being said, i will still buy and play the game at release, but depending on how this cash shop affects the in game experience will determine if ill be around for expansions.
You forgot to factor that people will cast votes here on the sole basis of putting it in a bad light. Not if this poll was on GW guru then it would have some real merit. Or a poll on their furute GW2 community site that registered users can vote on.
Originally posted by Thupli Originally posted by Foncl The cash shop discussion is getting seriously out of control. Some people like it some don't, can't we just agree that everyone has the right to their opinion and the right to voice it? Stop trying to ridicule people who have a different opinion, it's never going to lead anywhere.
Maybe if people would stop harping WRONG information there wouldn't be backlash. Usually spreading mis-information is a bad thing and get's corrected. You think we should give people a pass that label GW2 as a "P2W" game when the cash shop looks nothing like a game that is "p2w"? That's just an ostritch in the sand mentality, imo.
What information is "wrong" here. you know I have never seen that leak. Never bothered to. It's pointless. With regard to that leak, there is no wrong information, there is no misinformation, there is no information at all. Just an idea.
There will be, however, sanctioned gold selling. But, oh, it's good because ANet is doing it?
Neither do you have any facts other than the word of Anet, a word which can change in seconds.
I see, you mean other than GW1 cash shop, multiple posts on their website, and the fact that even in the leaked info on the cash shop nothing is pay to win, and the fact that with everything else they have said that have lived up to?
Yeah, we are solely going on their word.
Someone please help these "free thinkers".
Comparing GW1 to GW2 doesn't even make sense considering the amount of money invested in GW2 is much more than GW1 hence which means more need to generate revenue and more extensive cash shop than GW1.
I disagree complelely. It simply means that they have more people to fit into the same model which would generate proportionally the amount of money.
So you can still answer all of the other 3 points of evidence there, and reply to this one. I'm listening. If you do I will concede that it would be more resonable to believe they are lying.
Sorry but there is no evidence, just your own blind faith in Anet and what you call being 'optimisit'. I fail to see since when your opinions started to pass as a fact. And like i said before only because you refuse to blindly trust in game companies doesn't mean you are calling them out as a liar.
neither do you have any proof of the future of cash shop nor do those who dislike cash shop... it is all matetr of opinion. Your opinion is not better or gives you any authroity to insult people for voicing their concern.
See post 92.
And are you really saying that:
If there is no information either way, it's better to assume that Anet is lying. Really? Just wow.
Keep trying to put words in my mouth. Opposite of blind faith is not 'a liar.'
Here's the deal. In the above post you just said that both of us simply have opinions and nothing more. You think that Anet is lying about their intent for the cash shop and that it is actually p2w.
I actually believe them when they say that it will not be p2w. I have reasons listed in other posts that make me conclude they are correct.
So you think that it's just opinion? So it's just ok to broadcast that Anet is being misleading and lying to the masses when everything points the opposite direction? Sorry, fail argument.
You forgot to factor that people will cast votes here on the sole basis of putting it in a bad light. Not if this poll was on GW guru then it would have some real merit. Or a poll on their furute GW2 community site that registered users can vote on.
Why would they do that?
Can you accept that there may just be a lot of people who disagree with you - maybe they aren't spies.
neither do you have any proof of the future of cash shop nor do those who dislike cash shop... it is all matetr of opinion. Your opinion is not better or gives you any authroity to insult people for voicing their concern.
See post 92.
And are you really saying that:
If there is no information either way, it's better to assume that Anet is lying. Really? Just wow.
Keep trying to put words in my mouth. Opposite of blind faith is not 'a liar.'
Here's the deal. In the above post you just said that both of us simply have opinions and nothing more. You think that Anet is lying about their intent for the cash shop and that it is actually p2w.
I actually believe them when they say that it will not be p2w. I have reasons listed in other posts that make me conclude they are correct.
So you think that it's just opinion? So it's just ok to broadcast that Anet is being misleading and lying to the masses when everything points the opposite direction? Sorry, fail argument.
I never said that... you are assuming that because who ever disagrees with you or refuse to blindly take word of Anet for it is somehow calling Anet a liar.
The cash shop discussion is getting seriously out of control. Some people like it some don't, can't we just agree that everyone has the right to their opinion and the right to voice it? Stop trying to ridicule people who have a different opinion, it's never going to lead anywhere.
Maybe if people would stop harping WRONG information there wouldn't be backlash. Usually spreading mis-information is a bad thing and get's corrected. You think we should give people a pass that label GW2 as a "P2W" game when the cash shop looks nothing like a game that is "p2w"? That's just an ostritch in the sand mentality, imo.
what, if in some other universe, your opinion about the definition of P2W was WRONG?
I tell you, blind trust in a company after years of implying the game would be pure B2P sounds more ostritch like to me.
(the sand is your hype)
But were not in some other universe we are in this universe which people claiming this cash shop is P2W is like telling that Einstein was some fratboy who never did any contributions to science.
And get over the butthurt. Your all in a huff n a puff because everything in not completely free. People like you are just gimme gimme gimme, sometimes companies make decisions that you have to pay for certain service. Like toll way EZ pass, you need to pay for the convinience. Convinience is exactly that, something extra that costs a lil something.
Well, lets see how profitable the cash shop will now have to be. Lets assume this poll can be attributed to the genral population of GW2 players. When i looked at the results 17% of people who planned on buying the game no longer will due to the overeaching (not just account services and cosmetic) cash shop. If we assume that this game would have sold as well as GW1 (roughly 7 million). This game has then lost 1,190,000 players from this little cash shop fiasco. Which means that Arenanet has just cost themselves $71,400,000 (assuming of course that all of the players who have changed there mind about playing because of this cash shop revelation were only planning on purchasing the regular $60 version of the game, so the real amount is likely higher). Now again this figure is arrived at through a number of assumptions, but all projections are. So now to maintain the same level of profit that they could have otherwise expected before the cash shop leak they will have to sell 5,712,000,000 gems (at $5 for 400). Each remaining player in this projection will now have to actually buy (not trade for gold) around 1000 ($12.50) gems each to make back the money to compensate for the players it lost.
In light of these figures it seems that the cash shop was a badly calculated overreach. A cash shop with account services, extra inventory/storage, and cosmetics would have not lost them players and would have been profitable without suffering from a drop in potential buyers. There isnt a single thing in the current cash shop leak that i would purchase that wouldnt have been available in the purely cosmetic/account service cash shop (charachter slots, inventory/storage, maybe a server transfer). Buying keys for locked boxes, or boosters i wouldnt do even if they came down in price to 1 gem each. Same with the megaphone (which i see as troubling given the implication of there possibly not being a general chat in game). I only hope that Arenanet does the math and gives this some serious thought. Potentially losing over 71 milion dollars for a questionable gamble that could seriously damage ones reputation even if successful seems like a bad idea to me.
That being said, i will still buy and play the game at release, but depending on how this cash shop affects the in game experience will determine if ill be around for expansions.
You forgot to factor that people will cast votes here on the sole basis of putting it in a bad light. Not if this poll was on GW guru then it would have some real merit. Or a poll on their furute GW2 community site that registered users can vote on.
GW2 guru is a fan site mmorpg.com is not. Do you see the difference? i can also say that majority would cast votes to put it in a good light..you can not clap with one hand.
What you are saying is believe in ANET or GTFO... is that what you call serious game discussion or debate?
Nope, it's that if you are going to pretend like what you THINK it's going to be like will most CERTAINLY be how the game is, it's better if you not play, so GTFO. And sadly, there is evidence to the opposite conclusion of what you negativites are spouting, but you seem to think that it isn't so. If you folks would read, that would be a good start.
They're angry and they're mad. They have some amount of decent reason to be so. Ive seen the leak. It did seem a little over the top to me. Im being generous there I have to admit. Not that it puts me off of buying and playing GW2. It looks too good to pass up, but I'll wait and see the end result and buy after release just to be sure.
Having said that, you know sometimes I get angry over things. Something external, and my wife for instance might argue with me about it. Or vice versa. It has nothing to do with her. But suddenly Im angry at her too for arguing with me over the thing I was already mad about. Then Im even more angry over whatever I was angry about, and angry at her too.
In the same way you're just adding fuel to the fire. I totally get where you are coming from but these people probably want to like GW2. For some of them this is a bubble burster. And it was one huge bubble. Dissapointment of an extreme sort.
You and I dont have to share it but you can talk to them about it. Hey, they got beef. They're expressing themselves. You or I may think they MIGHT be over reacting (not saying they necessarily are), but that will certainly make them over react in itself just saying so. People get mad, you tell them they're wrong, stupid, over reacting, ridiculous and watch them explode.
In short, "GTFO" wont stop it and it wont help it.
To those concerned, maybe these items are also available in game somehow too. The non cosmetic ones. Maybe you can get them in game somehow. Yea, I know, pretty thin. But this leak is not finalized. And where did this leak come from? You know you have to wonder. If Anet released it publicly they'd have to kind of stick with it. Or own up to it. What if they might have released it as a leak? Then watch what happens and see reactions to it. A little conspiritorial but it does make me wonder. But either way, they're probably seeing the bad reactions.
So if you dont like it. Say so. Course I dont have to tell you folks that. You're doing a pretty good job. LoL
Originally posted by Thupli Originally posted by Ankur
Ankur neither do you have any proof of the future of cash shop nor do those who dislike cash shop... it is all matetr of opinion. Your opinion is not better or gives you any authroity to insult people for voicing their concern.
See post 92. And are you really saying that: If there is no information either way, it's better to assume that Anet is lying. Really? Just wow. Keep trying to put words in my mouth. Opposite of blind faith is not 'a liar.' Here's the deal. In the above post you just said that both of us simply have opinions and nothing more. You think that Anet is lying about their intent for the cash shop and that it is actually p2w. I actually believe them when they say that it will not be p2w. I have reasons listed in other posts that make me conclude they are correct. So you think that it's just opinion? So it's just ok to broadcast that Anet is being misleading and lying to the masses when everything points the opposite direction? Sorry, fail argument.
What's the definition of P2W? Gear? Gold? Power? Advantage? Not having to go out and put effort into the game if you don't want to? could be anyhting.
Sorry but there is no evidence, just your own blind faith in Anet and what you call being 'optimisit'. I fail to see since when your opinions started to pass as a fact. And like i said before only because you refuse to blindly trust in game companies doesn't mean you are calling them out as a liar.
First off, I dont consider myself an optimist, but I do believe in taking someone at their word.
Let me lay it out for you again and you can answer my evidence that leads me to trust Anet.
1. They have previously had a cash shop in GW2 that is not P2W.
2. They made many claims about their game, and then have backed it up by actually showing what they claimed to be doing.
3. In the leaked information on the cash shop, there is nothing that is p2w.
Those 3 alone are good evidence to believe that Anet is doing exactly what they said, which is having a cash shop not based on p2w.
Now you can avoid answering these points. That is your perrogative. But let's not pretend that somehow everyone should just be skeptical just because there is a "cash shop" in the game. And let's not pretend that trusting what someone says after they have a track record of following through with what they said is somehow "blind faith fanboi-ism".
Well, lets see how profitable the cash shop will now have to be. Lets assume this poll can be attributed to the genral population of GW2 players. When i looked at the results 17% of people who planned on buying the game no longer will due to the overeaching (not just account services and cosmetic) cash shop. If we assume that this game would have sold as well as GW1 (roughly 7 million). This game has then lost 1,190,000 players from this little cash shop fiasco. Which means that Arenanet has just cost themselves $71,400,000 (assuming of course that all of the players who have changed there mind about playing because of this cash shop revelation were only planning on purchasing the regular $60 version of the game, so the real amount is likely higher). Now again this figure is arrived at through a number of assumptions, but all projections are. So now to maintain the same level of profit that they could have otherwise expected before the cash shop leak they will have to sell 5,712,000,000 gems (at $5 for 400). Each remaining player in this projection will now have to actually buy (not trade for gold) around 1000 ($12.50) gems each to make back the money to compensate for the players it lost.
In light of these figures it seems that the cash shop was a badly calculated overreach. A cash shop with account services, extra inventory/storage, and cosmetics would have not lost them players and would have been profitable without suffering from a drop in potential buyers. There isnt a single thing in the current cash shop leak that i would purchase that wouldnt have been available in the purely cosmetic/account service cash shop (charachter slots, inventory/storage, maybe a server transfer). Buying keys for locked boxes, or boosters i wouldnt do even if they came down in price to 1 gem each. Same with the megaphone (which i see as troubling given the implication of there possibly not being a general chat in game). I only hope that Arenanet does the math and gives this some serious thought. Potentially losing over 71 milion dollars for a questionable gamble that could seriously damage ones reputation even if successful seems like a bad idea to me.
That being said, i will still buy and play the game at release, but depending on how this cash shop affects the in game experience will determine if ill be around for expansions.
You forgot to factor that people will cast votes here on the sole basis of putting it in a bad light. Not if this poll was on GW guru then it would have some real merit. Or a poll on their furute GW2 community site that registered users can vote on.
I forgot nothing. The 2nd sentence of my previous post was "Lets assume". Aside from what i said that i personally would do, i did not at any point state that anything else was an absolute. Also Guru is mostly made up of GW1 players most of which are fans of both GW1 and 2. This being a general mmo forum is no more or less likely to be accurate.
But were not in some other universe we are in this universe which people claiming this cash shop is P2W is like telling that Einstein was some fratboy who never did any contributions to science.
And get over the butthurt. Your all in a huff n a puff because everything in not completely free. People like you are just gimme gimme gimme, sometimes companies make decisions that you have to pay for certain service. Like toll way EZ pass, you need to pay for the convinience. Convinience is exactly that, something extra that costs a lil something.
You got the wrong guy.
What I'd like to see is a sub fee if they need more than the box sales. I know they need money, but I don't want to play a game built from the ground up as a skin over a cash shop. I'd like to play a game where it doesn't matter if you make a doctor's salary or are a poor college student - you pay your entry fee then everyone plays the exact same game. I want my devs to be motivated to entertain me in order to keep my sub rather than intentionally frustrate me to drive me towards XP boosts.
Originally posted by Ambros123 People like you are just gimme gimme gimme,
Who the hell are you to come up with this? And frankly, it's quite the opposite. Maybe......just maybe..hold on here, tough concept coming. We just want an even playing field where everyone has to work just the same to get what's theirs and NOT be all gimmie gimmie gimmie.
Seems to me Cash Shop people are the ones going gimmie gimmie gimmie.
I don't tell you what you are like because of a polarized issue around a video game. Please extend the same courtesy...thank you.
I'm playing, but as soon as they put in items that grant statistical advantages via gear, or change the shop so that items aren't easily accesible to players lacking a discretionary income - then I'm gone.
If this shop messes with the integrity of an open economy - I'm gone. (Meaning - if gems become the default currency because gold loses its value due to the cash shop.)
Please, please, please, ArenaNet - don't watch what EA and Blizzard are doing - stick to your central tenents. Stick to your guns.
While I like that you are attempting to make a stand against power being sold in the CS, you do realize that you leaving the game if ANet begins selling power is a moot point, right? I mean, it is a game without a subscription. You've already spent the money on the box and if you're not going to use the cash shop, then ANet couldn't give a shit if you leave. So, all they have to do is wait until they get a large user base, then switch the cash shop around to whatever they like. If you, or people like you, leave because they start offering an advantage to CS only items, all the better. Because, not only did they get your money from the box sale, they don't have to bother offering you customer service.
In short, "GTFO" wont stop it and it wont help it.
So if you dont like it. Say so. Course I dont have to tell you folks that. You're doing a pretty good job. LoL
Yeah, it was mostly a parody of the poster's name... the poster that doesn't want to play it and doesn't trust Anet.
Anyway, it is pretty pointless to argue with these folks. After all, they are arguing about something that is in closed beta, under NDA, and is suddenly the end of the game.
It makes me sick. I can't stand it. What can I say, I'm going to argue to at least try to not pre-conclude that Anet are a bunch of liars. All I hear is "the cash shop is ruining the game and it's p2w" and that is exacltly the opposite of what has been said and shown.
Who the hell are you to come up with this? And frankly, it's quite the opposite.
Maybe......just maybe..hold on here, tough concept coming.
We just want an even playing field where everyone has to work just the same to get what's theirs and NOT be all gimmie gimmie gimmie.
Seems to me Cash Shop people are the ones going gimmie gimmie gimmie.
I don't tell you what you are like because of a polarized issue around a video game.
Please extend the same courtesy...thank you.
You already admitted earlier that you dont believe what Anet says.
So there is no point arguing with you, since any evidence we have would be from their game. You are pre-determined at this point and not worth talking to, which is pretty sad.
Cash shop means nothing to me. Its still not pay 2 win but it most certainly is pay 2 skip content. Lets be honest not one item that is offered in the chas shop is game breaking but instead is time saving which isnt that big of a deal. If you have a problem with these items then I sense you were never going to play GW2 in the first place.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Sorry but there is no evidence, just your own blind faith in Anet and what you call being 'optimisit'. I fail to see since when your opinions started to pass as a fact. And like i said before only because you refuse to blindly trust in game companies doesn't mean you are calling them out as a liar.
First off, I dont consider myself an optimist, but I do believe in taking someone at their word.
Let me lay it out for you again and you can answer my evidence that leads me to trust Anet.
1. They have previously had a cash shop in GW2 that is not P2W.
2. They made many claims about their game, and then have backed it up by actually showing what they claimed to be doing.
3. In the leaked information on the cash shop, there is nothing that is p2w.
Those 3 alone are good evidence to believe that Anet is doing exactly what they said, which is having a cash shop not based on p2w.
Now you can avoid answering these points. That is your perrogative. But let's not pretend that somehow everyone should just be skeptical just because there is a "cash shop" in the game. And let's not pretend that trusting what someone says after they have a track record of following through with what they said is somehow "blind faith fanboi-ism".
Your post and opinion is as much as up in the air like anyone else who believes that 'this is just the beginning' in relation to cash shop. I have been saying all along that if you have the right to have full faith in Anet others have right to be skeptical because after all Anet is a gaming company like any other and maximizing profit is there goal. There are not here to hold our hand or offer free hugs because they care. They are in business and they can change whatever they want in cash shop to maximise those profits. In last few months alone GW2 cash shop ahs gone under quite a lot of changes.
My discussion was never about whether it is P2W or not but your attitude towards anyone who disagrees to just simply takes 'Anets word' for it. Can cash shop start offering more items which can alter or effect the game play? yes there is a big possibility. But it may or may not happen.
I just like to keep an open mind and believe anything is possible, it acts like a cushion when real blows come. But i am surely not goign to insult those who think that what Anet said is a line in stone and can not be changed. That is why you would notice i didn't insult you even once through out the whole topic.
Comments
Except people are twisting it out of context. ANet is saving people a shit ton of money by not having a P2P model which by rights they could make it one. 6 months of subs is 90 bucks which if people do indulge in the store will spend a mere fraction of that. Now what they are doing is to generate some income which people are going ballistic over. People will nitpick at anything because of their hate for a game which is the essence of the forums here.
what, if in some other universe, your opinion about the definition of P2W was WRONG?
I tell you, blind trust in a company after years of implying the game would be pure B2P sounds more ostritch like to me.
(the sand is your hype)
Keep trying to put words in my mouth. Opposite of blind faith is not 'a liar.'
I disagree complelely. It simply means that they have more people to fit into the same model which would generate proportionally the amount of money.
So you can still answer all of the other 3 points of evidence there, and reply to this one. I'm listening. If you do I will concede that it would be more resonable to believe they are lying.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
You forgot to factor that people will cast votes here on the sole basis of putting it in a bad light. Not if this poll was on GW guru then it would have some real merit. Or a poll on their furute GW2 community site that registered users can vote on.
What information is "wrong" here.
you know I have never seen that leak. Never bothered to. It's pointless. With regard to that leak, there is no wrong information, there is no misinformation, there is no information at all. Just an idea.
There will be, however, sanctioned gold selling.
But, oh, it's good because ANet is doing it?
Sorry but there is no evidence, just your own blind faith in Anet and what you call being 'optimisit'. I fail to see since when your opinions started to pass as a fact. And like i said before only because you refuse to blindly trust in game companies doesn't mean you are calling them out as a liar.
Here's the deal. In the above post you just said that both of us simply have opinions and nothing more. You think that Anet is lying about their intent for the cash shop and that it is actually p2w.
I actually believe them when they say that it will not be p2w. I have reasons listed in other posts that make me conclude they are correct.
So you think that it's just opinion? So it's just ok to broadcast that Anet is being misleading and lying to the masses when everything points the opposite direction? Sorry, fail argument.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Why would they do that?
Can you accept that there may just be a lot of people who disagree with you - maybe they aren't spies.
I never said that... you are assuming that because who ever disagrees with you or refuse to blindly take word of Anet for it is somehow calling Anet a liar.
You hope.
But were not in some other universe we are in this universe which people claiming this cash shop is P2W is like telling that Einstein was some fratboy who never did any contributions to science.
And get over the butthurt. Your all in a huff n a puff because everything in not completely free. People like you are just gimme gimme gimme, sometimes companies make decisions that you have to pay for certain service. Like toll way EZ pass, you need to pay for the convinience. Convinience is exactly that, something extra that costs a lil something.
GW2 guru is a fan site mmorpg.com is not. Do you see the difference? i can also say that majority would cast votes to put it in a good light..you can not clap with one hand.
They're angry and they're mad. They have some amount of decent reason to be so. Ive seen the leak. It did seem a little over the top to me. Im being generous there I have to admit. Not that it puts me off of buying and playing GW2. It looks too good to pass up, but I'll wait and see the end result and buy after release just to be sure.
Having said that, you know sometimes I get angry over things. Something external, and my wife for instance might argue with me about it. Or vice versa. It has nothing to do with her. But suddenly Im angry at her too for arguing with me over the thing I was already mad about. Then Im even more angry over whatever I was angry about, and angry at her too.
In the same way you're just adding fuel to the fire. I totally get where you are coming from but these people probably want to like GW2. For some of them this is a bubble burster. And it was one huge bubble. Dissapointment of an extreme sort.
You and I dont have to share it but you can talk to them about it. Hey, they got beef. They're expressing themselves. You or I may think they MIGHT be over reacting (not saying they necessarily are), but that will certainly make them over react in itself just saying so. People get mad, you tell them they're wrong, stupid, over reacting, ridiculous and watch them explode.
In short, "GTFO" wont stop it and it wont help it.
To those concerned, maybe these items are also available in game somehow too. The non cosmetic ones. Maybe you can get them in game somehow. Yea, I know, pretty thin. But this leak is not finalized. And where did this leak come from? You know you have to wonder. If Anet released it publicly they'd have to kind of stick with it. Or own up to it. What if they might have released it as a leak? Then watch what happens and see reactions to it. A little conspiritorial but it does make me wonder. But either way, they're probably seeing the bad reactions.
So if you dont like it. Say so. Course I dont have to tell you folks that. You're doing a pretty good job. LoL
And are you really saying that:
If there is no information either way, it's better to assume that Anet is lying. Really? Just wow.
Keep trying to put words in my mouth. Opposite of blind faith is not 'a liar.'
Here's the deal. In the above post you just said that both of us simply have opinions and nothing more. You think that Anet is lying about their intent for the cash shop and that it is actually p2w.
I actually believe them when they say that it will not be p2w. I have reasons listed in other posts that make me conclude they are correct.
So you think that it's just opinion? So it's just ok to broadcast that Anet is being misleading and lying to the masses when everything points the opposite direction? Sorry, fail argument.
What's the definition of P2W?
Gear?
Gold?
Power?
Advantage?
Not having to go out and put effort into the game if you don't want to?
could be anyhting.
First off, I dont consider myself an optimist, but I do believe in taking someone at their word.
Let me lay it out for you again and you can answer my evidence that leads me to trust Anet.
1. They have previously had a cash shop in GW2 that is not P2W.
2. They made many claims about their game, and then have backed it up by actually showing what they claimed to be doing.
3. In the leaked information on the cash shop, there is nothing that is p2w.
Those 3 alone are good evidence to believe that Anet is doing exactly what they said, which is having a cash shop not based on p2w.
Now you can avoid answering these points. That is your perrogative. But let's not pretend that somehow everyone should just be skeptical just because there is a "cash shop" in the game. And let's not pretend that trusting what someone says after they have a track record of following through with what they said is somehow "blind faith fanboi-ism".
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
I forgot nothing. The 2nd sentence of my previous post was "Lets assume". Aside from what i said that i personally would do, i did not at any point state that anything else was an absolute. Also Guru is mostly made up of GW1 players most of which are fans of both GW1 and 2. This being a general mmo forum is no more or less likely to be accurate.
You got the wrong guy.
What I'd like to see is a sub fee if they need more than the box sales. I know they need money, but I don't want to play a game built from the ground up as a skin over a cash shop. I'd like to play a game where it doesn't matter if you make a doctor's salary or are a poor college student - you pay your entry fee then everyone plays the exact same game. I want my devs to be motivated to entertain me in order to keep my sub rather than intentionally frustrate me to drive me towards XP boosts.
Maybe......just maybe..hold on here, tough concept coming.
We just want an even playing field where everyone has to work just the same to get what's theirs and NOT be all gimmie gimmie gimmie.
Seems to me Cash Shop people are the ones going gimmie gimmie gimmie.
I don't tell you what you are like because of a polarized issue around a video game.
Please extend the same courtesy...thank you.
While I like that you are attempting to make a stand against power being sold in the CS, you do realize that you leaving the game if ANet begins selling power is a moot point, right? I mean, it is a game without a subscription. You've already spent the money on the box and if you're not going to use the cash shop, then ANet couldn't give a shit if you leave. So, all they have to do is wait until they get a large user base, then switch the cash shop around to whatever they like. If you, or people like you, leave because they start offering an advantage to CS only items, all the better. Because, not only did they get your money from the box sale, they don't have to bother offering you customer service.
Yeah, it was mostly a parody of the poster's name... the poster that doesn't want to play it and doesn't trust Anet.
Anyway, it is pretty pointless to argue with these folks. After all, they are arguing about something that is in closed beta, under NDA, and is suddenly the end of the game.
It makes me sick. I can't stand it. What can I say, I'm going to argue to at least try to not pre-conclude that Anet are a bunch of liars. All I hear is "the cash shop is ruining the game and it's p2w" and that is exacltly the opposite of what has been said and shown.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
You already admitted earlier that you dont believe what Anet says.
So there is no point arguing with you, since any evidence we have would be from their game. You are pre-determined at this point and not worth talking to, which is pretty sad.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Cash shop means nothing to me. Its still not pay 2 win but it most certainly is pay 2 skip content. Lets be honest not one item that is offered in the chas shop is game breaking but instead is time saving which isnt that big of a deal. If you have a problem with these items then I sense you were never going to play GW2 in the first place.
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Your post and opinion is as much as up in the air like anyone else who believes that 'this is just the beginning' in relation to cash shop. I have been saying all along that if you have the right to have full faith in Anet others have right to be skeptical because after all Anet is a gaming company like any other and maximizing profit is there goal. There are not here to hold our hand or offer free hugs because they care. They are in business and they can change whatever they want in cash shop to maximise those profits. In last few months alone GW2 cash shop ahs gone under quite a lot of changes.
My discussion was never about whether it is P2W or not but your attitude towards anyone who disagrees to just simply takes 'Anets word' for it. Can cash shop start offering more items which can alter or effect the game play? yes there is a big possibility. But it may or may not happen.
I just like to keep an open mind and believe anything is possible, it acts like a cushion when real blows come. But i am surely not goign to insult those who think that what Anet said is a line in stone and can not be changed. That is why you would notice i didn't insult you even once through out the whole topic.
People love to overreact before there's even anything to react to. Nothing has changed for me, I still plan on playing.