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rewarding time spent in game is stupid
bishbosh
Member Posts: 388
games should reward players based on
-the descicions they make
-their reflexes, strategy and knowledge during combat
-their ability make allies and utlisie these friendships
-their ability to play the market and reap gains
pretty much every game whether it be soccer,basketball, quake 3, starcraft or chess doesnt directly reward time spent. you will get better with practice but not neccesarly at the same rate and different people will plateu at different ability levels. practicing and competing to extract all the performance out of your potential is what makes these games interesting and is the reason for their longevity.
"hey looks like you grinded your arse off for 2 weeks now you have enough badges to unlock tier X pvp gear. congratulations you are a no life loser and now you can pwn all those who undergoing the process you just went through. dont you just feel great?"
why is it mmorpgs have this stupid concept of rewards based on time spent. "progression" should be difficult not time consuming. for example: once a raid is complete why should you have to keep completing until you have all the items? if you can do it once, you can surely do it again. how do people put up with this crap? make the raids more challenging rather than making them something you repeat and repeat.
im also a firm beleiver than no computer programming can beat the complexity and unpredicatlibility of PVP based gameplay. . i think one of the reasons that players dont like pvp gameplay is because it is poorly done. since players are rewarded based on time spent, casual players (the majority) dont stand a chance. PVP gameplay is superior to PVE gameplay in that there are infinite possibilities. developers only have to provide the tools, they dont need to constantly churn out content. look at LoL and DoTA. both of these games are extremely popular (far more popular than any mmorpg) and they are pvp games.
Comments
Pretty simple really, they reward people for time spent because those folks are making them money.
Every person who has stuck it out and ground out his final piece of gear (recall folks in early WOW running some instances 85 times just to get a single helmet) also paid Blizzard a sub fee during that time.
It's all about getting you to spend money one way or another, be it through directly rewarding subscription time (EVE), or time spent playing the game (yes, no lifers are normally rewarded disproportionately compared to casuals)
Life isn't fair, MMORPGS shouldn't be either. (since they really should be virtual world simulators more akin to RL)
Learn to deal with the challenges they present or play something else.
Like Chess.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you spend 20 hours a week practicing 3 pointers and free throws and jump shots and I don't you are going to beat me no? How is that different from me playing an MMO 20 more hours a week?
This argument is just as tired and stupid as it has always been.
How can you possibly get better at magic spells when none of us can fucking cast magic spells? Does that mean that spells should have a static set of stats forever and ever? In which case you can get better at physical fighting and not magic spells. Which means no one will want to be a mage. How would you get better at fighting? MOBAs don't even let you gain player skill in actual fighting. FPS games? Hitboxes for melee fighting? What button says swing down but halfway through the arc swing out 90 degrees from your center? Exactly.
I suppose we can have spells work using math. But then all the twitch kiddies would cry hard because they can't solve this trivial problem:
3 numbers add up to 64.
One is twice the average of the other two.
The other two have a difference of 6.
Can you solve that in 1.2 seconds to get an optimal spell cast?
I can.
FYI if you used algebraic systems to solve this you are wrong. Period. Not that that method would allow a 1.2 second solve.
Don't play RPGs then?
RPGs are about character progression, and gear/levels happens to be part of that. If you want to play a game where success is based mainly around skill, I suggest picking up an FPS or RTS game.
If I had 10000000 dollars I would give it to you.
Of course basement dwelling losers can spend years learning to play chess well, why should I with my overbearing wife and collection of autistic iguanas have to compete with them, far better that for a small cash payment I can purchase new pieces to replace those lost during the course of the match.OP...
I love games that are based on skill or tactics like LoL, SC2, and BF3.
At the same time, I love RPGs that are based on progression like WoW, UO, Final Fantasy, etc..
The difference between you and I is that I realize and appreciate the distinction here.
Like it or not, RPGs are heavily centered around progressing your character. And there is always an extremely high correlation between time spent in game and the amount you progress.
If you try to force RPGs to be in this "heavily skill based" model...then you are making them something they aren't. There are plenty games out there that are all about skill if you want to play them.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
OP, its all a matter of perspective. While your persepective is of a player that wants skill to count over everything else, because you do not have the time to invest as others do, the perspective of the company making the game is not this. Their main goal is to get money. To get money, they need to make sure people continue to play the game. To make people continue to play the game, they need rewards that take TIME to get to.
This is what it means to play an MMORPG. Else, it would just be a regular RPG. In those, the main objective is not making the player spend the most amount of time possible playing the game, but the telling of a good story while giving you nice eye candy and, yes, making you show your skills. Those with more skills can do "great" stuff in RPGs... low level clears, defeat the baddest bosses with a limited skillset ect ect.
If MMORPGs were based on how RPGs are, they could be finished in well under 100 hours, with all items gained and max level. Then there would be no reason to continue playing... which would be bad for the company. Since we don't want that, then the best solution is to add many goals and rewards that can only be obtained by spending countless hours in game.
For better or worse, rewarding time spent in game is the best way to keep all types of players playing, and the money flowing for the game company.
theres nothing real-time about chess?
since when thinking came turnbased? when masters play the game ,it might look like turn based,but i can tell you,they do alot of real time playing in their minds.
Let's internet
theres nothing real-time about chess?
since when thinking came turnbased? when masters play the game ,it might look like turn based,but i can tell you,they do alot of real time playing in their minds.
No it's still turn based, they can think 20 moves ahead, and then because it is turn based discard all that thinking and head in a different direction, because they hadn't taken their turn yet.Indeed, it's getting a bit funny. It's fine when people do not like the RPG concept. That's okay. It's getting strange however when they buy exactly these RPG themeparks that they do not like and then start complaining about them.
I start to believe they're even the reason why we get this seemingly never ending string of mediocre themeparks. Why should the studios develop a good game when plenty of people buy every piece of garbage that comes out anyway.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
after 20 moves on chess table?? there would be about infinite possibilies,and you dont need to think ?
after 3 theres like millions.
Let's internet
That is a 100% false statement. Time = Reward was introduced by EQ2 and did not become staple for another 4-5 years which just so happened to be the time that this horse started to become beaten to death.
The genre is now overrun with people who spend their lives playing the games, will defend the model to no end, the odds of it changing are slim now...thanks to those that dont even know what a game based on fun is even like. So, three cheers for keeping MMORPGs a second job!
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
theres nothing real-time about chess?
since when thinking came turnbased? when masters play the game ,it might look like turn based,but i can tell you,they do alot of real time playing in their minds.
No it's still turn based, they can think 20 moves ahead, and then because it is turn based discard all that thinking and head in a different direction, because they hadn't taken their turn yet.after 20 moves on chess table?? there would be about infinite possibilies,and you dont need to think ?
after 3 theres like millions.
You have played chess before? One player moves a piece and his turn ends, I can then go to the toilet, head out for dinner or stare at the board, however, nothing at all changes until I lift a piece and move it, thus ending my turn. It's turn based, it's unarguable.Exactamundo... It's attitudes like the OP's that really boggle my mind, what he wants is another genre, not to say there can't be MMO games like this, but they're not going to be MMORPG's.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Well, they are making one just for the OP, GW2 in fact, and it really isn't a proper MMORPG since its focuses so hard on removing character progression from the game and leveling the playing field.
Should be right up his alley.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
to you it is turnbased,when i go to the toilet and take a dinner i think my next move and play the game ,you dont.
Let's internet
Well timespent rewards are what makes MMOrpgs.
Even though as an older gamer now i absolutely hate the fact that any good game requires me to spend too much time in order to get satisfaction from it, these games are all designed to keep you on the monthly. Due to that reason i find myself drifting away from mmorpgs more and more due to time restraints from something called real life, online rpgs are now geared completely towwards people who are willing to sacrifice real life in order to receive pixelated rewards and that standard has pushed me away from the mmorpg genre, they push it like a drug and that is wrong.
... Time = Reward by EQ2? Woah now. Please research more before you speak. It doesn't matter what MMO you go into, those that have more time to play will also be the ones with the better stuff. If you mean standing around doing absolutely NOTHING and getting a reward, then that would have to be every single Korean Style Grinder. You get rewards for being logged in, and for logging in every day. Not so with almost any Western AAA title.
theres nothing real-time about chess?
since when thinking came turnbased? when masters play the game ,it might look like turn based,but i can tell you,they do alot of real time playing in their minds.
No it's still turn based, they can think 20 moves ahead, and then because it is turn based discard all that thinking and head in a different direction, because they hadn't taken their turn yet.after 20 moves on chess table?? there would be about infinite possibilies,and you dont need to think ?
after 3 theres like millions.
You have played chess before? One player moves a piece and his turn ends, I can then go to the toilet, head out for dinner or stare at the board, however, nothing at all changes until I lift a piece and move it, thus ending my turn. It's turn based, it's unarguable.to you it is turnbased,when i go to the toilet and take a dinner i think my next move and play the game ,you dont.
And it is still turn based, whilst you sit on the toilet thinking about the bishop, I cannot take another move because it is still your turn. Simple logic 101I can't disagree with that TBH.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It makes perfect sense...you have to remember, gaming isn't just suppose to be fun for us, but its a business. By rewarding people based on time in game, you are getting people attached...thats just smart business.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
False. It is only true if the person actually learned during that time which, considering player behaviour and feature design in MMOs, is a bad assumption to make. Repetition is the mother of study, but not everyone is equally good at study. Even less are capable of effectively using or applying it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
i think its better to paste it
after 20 moves on chess table?? there would be about infinite possibilies,and you dont need to think ?
after 3 theres like millions.
Let's internet