I've looked all over and cannot really find an exact answer to this.
I've seen this "WvWvW" stuff, but that still looks instanced to me.
I'm talking about open world pvp. I'm guessing guild wars 2 doesn't have it?
If not, I'll probably pass on this one.. tired of instanced PVP games.
The way I see it is; WvWvW is instanced, BUT its so massive that it "feels" like open world... If you understand what I mean.
From what I've read, I think the PvP aspect will be just as seemless in this game as in any other game without open world pvp. I also noticed the title under your avatar portrait says FFXI correspondent, don't worry though, this will be nothing like signing up for Balista x-D
I hated that too lol
The way I see it is; WvWvW is zoned , but its so massive that it "feels" like open world... If you understand what I mean.
The funny thing to me is that people make these kinds of threads AS IF anyone actually cares. One more person proclaiming they won't be playing a game isn't very thread-worthy in my opinion, and I don't think I'm alone on that.
18 pages says people do care...What's the dfference between this and a "who pre-ordered" thread or a "I'm going to love this game" thread or post?
The pre-order threads are stupid too. But "I'm going to love this game" threads at least promote further conversation. THIS post above, on the other hand is just "Na na I'm not gonna play it," PERIOD. It doesn't need any follow up conversation, because after all....he's not going to play it, so what is there to discuss? 18 pages means people are bored, not necessarily entranced by the topic of "discussion" if you can call it that. And Distopia, I know you hate when people disagree with you, but that's just how it is. We're not going to agree on much of anything, this included.
I suggest that people that MUST HAVE "World PvP"....stay away from GW2. If WvWvW isn't enough for you, just simply don't play. It's not that difficult a decision to make.
Open PvP can only work in a game designed around it. WvW was created as a compromise for people that like Open world PvP, while protecting PvEers from the griefers.
If a game isn't designed from the ground up to be a PvP game, it will ended up failing and punishing the majority of the players which usually happens to be PvEers. I love PvP, but I hate open world PvP because its usually some punk hiding waiting for me to miss up while PvEing to come kill me, most of the time they don't have the guts to fight 1v1 unless they whole in a zerg.
Originally posted by just1opinion I suggest that people that MUST HAVE "World PvP"....stay away from GW2. If WvWvW isn't enough for you, just simply don't play. It's not that difficult a decision to make.
Go-away-if-you-don't-like-what-I-like was old back in 2007 and it's amazing (and not exactly in a good sense) people still use it.
Personally, I don't really need OWPvP yet I wouldn't be mad even if GW2 actually featured full loot FFA. But in any case, "don't play" should be used with care. More than a handful of MMO crashed and burned simply because nobody stayed to play for long. And then there's also attitude issue. The general consensus seems to be that the quality of MMO communities dropped sharply in recent years. Well, then everyone should ask themselves "maybe it's partially my fault too?"
But back to the topic: if ANet implemented OWPvP with full opt-out a-la Rift, I don't see how it could possibly hurt anyone. If you can't accidentally tag yourself, how is that bad for you that someone else is tagged? Besides, ANet promised to add duels (sadly, not at launch) anyway. If 1v1 is okay, why group vs. group isn't?
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
I've looked all over and cannot really find an exact answer to this.
I've seen this "WvWvW" stuff, but that still looks instanced to me.
I'm talking about open world pvp. I'm guessing guild wars 2 doesn't have it?
If not, I'll probably pass on this one.. tired of instanced PVP games.
The way I see it is; WvWvW is instanced, BUT its so massive that it "feels" like open world... If you understand what I mean.
From what I've read, I think the PvP aspect will be just as seemless in this game as in any other game without open world pvp. I also noticed the title under your avatar portrait says FFXI correspondent, don't worry though, this will be nothing like signing up for Balista x-D
I hated that too lol
The way I see it is; WvWvW is zoned , but its so massive that it "feels" like open world... If you understand what I mean.
There, I fixed it for you
The way I see it is; WvWvW is Instanced , but its so massive that it "feels" like open world... If you understand what I mean.
There i fixed it for you , its got pop caps and is a CLOSED system , its is not an open system with in said zones.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I think it would be awesome if they introduced a guild war system like in TERA or EVE where you can declare wars and fight for a certain amount of time against players of the enemy guild in the open world. When it's over, the statistics determine a winner.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now! I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
The only reason why people would want traditional open world pvp is if they want to gank low level players. The WvWvW format is a structured way of open world pvp.
I guess some people dont like structured pvp and like time played over actual skill.
Honestly , guild based pvp is far less epic and driving for 99% of the player base. Where as realm/server based factions for pvp incorperate all , for that much more epicness and ease of entry to the pvp system.
Its much liek hardcore raiding, very few people do it in wow , despite the large number of players wow has. Guild based pvp is the same limited number of player actuall get very involved. I like open pvp zones, worlds, w/e over instanced ones , but not enough to require simple solutions resulting in LESS epic ness , less massive, and less fun.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Originally posted by Jetrpg There i fixed it for you , its got pop caps and is a CLOSED system , its is not an open system with in said zones.
Pop cap for WvWvW is very high though. I'm not sure it's official but some article claimed 2k total per instance.
Originally posted by Theonenoni The only reason why people would want traditional open world pvp is if they want to gank low level players. The WvWvW format is a structured way of open world pvp.
Ganking can be prevented with full opt out. Like I said earlier, Rift has it and it works. You tick a checkbox and simply can't use any ability on tagged target.
Though in GW2 case it could potentially lead to a whole new sort of griefing. Obstructing LoS and blocking abilities intended for mobs as a quick example. And surely somebody would come up with something more creative. Can work around anything but all the extra coding takes time.
I'm sure the developers considered OWPvP and probably they still do but I can see why it's not high on their priority list.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
The only reason why people would want traditional open world pvp is if they want to gank low level players. The WvWvW format is a structured way of open world pvp.
I guess some people dont like structured pvp and like time played over actual skill.
I just think they don't know better, or are bad and like to to unfairly gank.
DAoc had open world pvp, depending on server rule set most where in specified zones, allowing people to exp w/o being ganked, or people risking being ganked for a bonus rate of exp ~10-20%
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
There i fixed it for you , its got pop caps and is a CLOSED system , its is not an open system with in said zones.
Pop cap for WvWvW is very high though. I'm not sure it's official but some article claimed 2k total per instance.
Yeah but the person that guy quoted said as much, don't remove the quotes if your gonna say the same thing already stated.
Yes its epic mmopvp, its 300 x3 per intsanced zone, with 4 zones. 900 per "zone"/ instance they are trying to set it at 400 per server per instance = 1200 total per instance. Some of the eariler comments satated they wanted to push it to 500 if possible.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I've looked all over and cannot really find an exact answer to this.
I've seen this "WvWvW" stuff, but that still looks instanced to me.
I'm talking about open world pvp. I'm guessing guild wars 2 doesn't have it?
If not, I'll probably pass on this one.. tired of instanced PVP games.
The way I see it is; WvWvW is instanced, BUT its so massive that it "feels" like open world... If you understand what I mean.
From what I've read, I think the PvP aspect will be just as seemless in this game as in any other game without open world pvp. I also noticed the title under your avatar portrait says FFXI correspondent, don't worry though, this will be nothing like signing up for Balista x-D
I hated that too lol
The way I see it is; WvWvW is zoned , but its so massive that it "feels" like open world... If you understand what I mean.
There, I fixed it for you
The way I see it is; WvWvW is Instanced , but its so massive that it "feels" like open world... If you understand what I mean.
There i fixed it for you , its got pop caps and is a CLOSED system , its is not an open system with in said zones.
Knock it the F off with this misapplied term. WvW is ZONED, IT is persistent, it only has 1 version, you can leave freely and return at will, it does not reset (the 2 week thing is just to tabulate scores and assign new ranks).
WvW IS ZONE.
In massively multiplayer online games, an instance is a special area, typically a dungeon, that generates a new copy of the location for each group, or for certain number of players, that enters the area.[1] Instancing, the general term for the use of this technique,[1] addresses several problems encountered by players in the shared spaces of virtual worlds.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Originally posted by Jetrpg Yes its epic mmopvp, its 300 x3 per intsanced zone, with 4 zones. 900 per "zone"/ instance they are trying to set it at 400 per server per instance = 1200 total per instance. Some of the eariler comments satated they wanted to push it to 500 if possible.
Still, how many people do you expect to see in a single OWPvP zone? Servers crashes aren't a nice thing.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
There isn't world PvP in the sense that you can't run around and kill people from your own server.
However... there is the WvWvW open world PvP, which are persistent, dedicated maps solely for massive scale PvP experiences, including keep captures and defenses, dynamic events, etc. There, the open world PvP is about killing people from two other servers that you're matched against for a two week period. Currently, at least by the latest numbers, there can be some 1500 or so people in there fighting (with server caps to keep balance). It's not instanced, just a separate set of four massive, persistent zones.
The core idea is to take and hold keeps, towers, supply camps, etc. to build up points over a two week period. You get points for what you are holding, not for capping itself. At the end of the two week period which ever server wins will have bonuses applies to their world, then you'll be matched up against two new servers of comparable strengths to help keep it balanced.
How do you limit the number of players in a non-instanced zone?
There isn't world PvP in the sense that you can't run around and kill people from your own server.
However... there is the WvWvW open world PvP, which are persistent, dedicated maps solely for massive scale PvP experiences, including keep captures and defenses, dynamic events, etc. There, the open world PvP is about killing people from two other servers that you're matched against for a two week period. Currently, at least by the latest numbers, there can be some 1500 or so people in there fighting (with server caps to keep balance). It's not instanced, just a separate set of four massive, persistent zones.
The core idea is to take and hold keeps, towers, supply camps, etc. to build up points over a two week period. You get points for what you are holding, not for capping itself. At the end of the two week period which ever server wins will have bonuses applies to their world, then you'll be matched up against two new servers of comparable strengths to help keep it balanced.
How do you limit the number of players in a non-instanced zone?
You're still using the wrong definition of "instance" I think.
The answer is shards, and only Eve Online (that I know of) maintains a single shard for all it's players. That's a heavily zoned game however, but every now and then ungodly numbers of players meet in a single zone (system) for some insane PvP. In that case they use time-dilation... slow the universe down as a whole to minimize lag.
Let's see... Wintergrasp does it by throwing people out over a certain (really small) number... GW2 will do it by having a cap for each server and the option to queue or go to a different zone in WvW. Games also have caps on the populations for a server to accomplish this.
Is it instanced? Depends on your "terminology". Instanced in MMORPG terms stands for,
In massively multiplayer online games, an instance is a special area, typically a dungeon, that generates a new copy of the location for each group, or for certain number of players, that enters the area.
So with that definition, WvW is not instanced, it does not create a new copy of the area for each group that enters it, instead it is a zone, as to where anyone on those servers, has only those 4 zones, they are not instances, It is not a copy of each one, Each one is the "Home Land" for each server, then the 4th is an added battlezone. Yes 3 of them are similar in design, but you can travel from one to the other freely, and participate at any time.
With that said, it is not open world PvP, thats what i was trying to argue earlier, its PvE and its PvP are seperated. I think the proper terminology for WvW is ZWPVP (zoned world PvP). it isn't an instance, clearly, it is zoned, but it is not open, the counter to that is it is not a scenario, it is a world. It has its own events, And it is where you go to PvP.
Back to the instanced thing, i think people are arguing it is instanced because it was said in the ANet blog that there might be a que at high traffic times. What that means is the servers are full. It doesn't mean they are generating another "instance" of this PvP world. With time, they will be able to raise the server caps above the high traffic times, causing there to be minimal if any ques at all. They can't make the game perfect on day 1, no one wants to get into WvW and crash the servers, start small. And expand on that.
This argument is a merry-go-round. This post is my personal oppinion, please don't take offense to it. I wrote it feeling people are arguing the same things, but using different words, causing them to argue towards a similar idea.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
I've looked all over and cannot really find an exact answer to this.
I've seen this "WvWvW" stuff, but that still looks instanced to me.
I'm talking about open world pvp. I'm guessing guild wars 2 doesn't have it?
If not, I'll probably pass on this one.. tired of instanced PVP games.
The way I see it is; WvWvW is instanced, BUT its so massive that it "feels" like open world... If you understand what I mean.
From what I've read, I think the PvP aspect will be just as seemless in this game as in any other game without open world pvp. I also noticed the title under your avatar portrait says FFXI correspondent, don't worry though, this will be nothing like signing up for Balista x-D
I hated that too lol
The way I see it is; WvWvW is zoned , but its so massive that it "feels" like open world... If you understand what I mean.
There, I fixed it for you
The way I see it is; WvWvW is Instanced , but its so massive that it "feels" like open world... If you understand what I mean.
There i fixed it for you , its got pop caps and is a CLOSED system , its is not an open system with in said zones.
Then you do not know what an instance is, but reallly it doesnt matter, I for one am glad you wont be there.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
There isn't world PvP in the sense that you can't run around and kill people from your own server.
However... there is the WvWvW open world PvP, which are persistent, dedicated maps solely for massive scale PvP experiences, including keep captures and defenses, dynamic events, etc. There, the open world PvP is about killing people from two other servers that you're matched against for a two week period. Currently, at least by the latest numbers, there can be some 1500 or so people in there fighting (with server caps to keep balance). It's not instanced, just a separate set of four massive, persistent zones.
The core idea is to take and hold keeps, towers, supply camps, etc. to build up points over a two week period. You get points for what you are holding, not for capping itself. At the end of the two week period which ever server wins will have bonuses applies to their world, then you'll be matched up against two new servers of comparable strengths to help keep it balanced.
How do you limit the number of players in a non-instanced zone?
You're still using the wrong definition of "instance" I think.
The answer is shards, and only Eve Online (that I know of) maintains a single shard for all it's players. That's a heavily zoned game however, but every now and then ungodly numbers of players meet in a single zone (system) for some insane PvP. In that case they use time-dilation... slow the universe down as a whole to minimize lag.
Let's see... Wintergrasp does it by throwing people out over a certain (really small) number... GW2 will do it by having a cap for each server and the option to queue or go to a different zone in WvW. Games also have caps on the populations for a server to accomplish this.
Eve has less graphical requirements than newer games. Open space does that, you just have to worry about black as a background. IN a game like gw2 where you have so many colors and landscapes, a single server as expansive as it is is impractical.
I've looked all over and cannot really find an exact answer to this.
I've seen this "WvWvW" stuff, but that still looks instanced to me.
I'm talking about open world pvp. I'm guessing guild wars 2 doesn't have it?
If not, I'll probably pass on this one.. tired of instanced PVP games.
The way I see it is; WvWvW is instanced, BUT its so massive that it "feels" like open world... If you understand what I mean.
From what I've read, I think the PvP aspect will be just as seemless in this game as in any other game without open world pvp. I also noticed the title under your avatar portrait says FFXI correspondent, don't worry though, this will be nothing like signing up for Balista x-D
I hated that too lol
The way I see it is; WvWvW is zoned , but its so massive that it "feels" like open world... If you understand what I mean.
There, I fixed it for you
The way I see it is; WvWvW is Instanced , but its so massive that it "feels" like open world... If you understand what I mean.
There i fixed it for you , its got pop caps and is a CLOSED system , its is not an open system with in said zones.
Knock it the F off with this misapplied term. WvW is ZONED, IT is persistent, it only has 1 version, you can leave freely and return at will, it does not reset (the 2 week thing is just to tabulate scores and assign new ranks).
WvW IS ZONE.
In massively multiplayer online games, an instance is a special area, typically a dungeon, that generates a new copy of the location for each group, or for certain number of players, that enters the area.[1] Instancing, the general term for the use of this technique,[1] addresses several problems encountered by players in the shared spaces of virtual worlds.
I agree with you on certain levels, I'll use Aion for example; When you "Zone" into the Abyss I don't consider that an instance but rather a very large zone. However, considering the fact that there are different sections of the Abyss where you have to load into it, made it feel instanced to me in terms of the events that would occur. In one "zone" or "Instance" ABC events would be taking place, whereas in another zone or "instance" XYZ event would be taking place. By loading from one Zone to another, thus somewhat ending your experience of a certain event from one zone to the next, to me brings that "instanced" feel.
However, some don't consider the variabled events of the zone or instance the absolute factors that decides whether or not it will be classified as either. When comparing games such as WoW, Aion, FFXI and GW2 (Those are my choices to compare) I don't think of the experience in each zone as what classifies it, but rather how connected is that zone or instance to the other major areas of the game i.e. In FFXI Balista takes place on Bibiki Bay(I think... its been a while), but it's clearly instanced, but in WoW when I enter an open world pvp area I'm clearly warned (without a load screen) that I could be attacked even though this area is apart of the open world, and when I leave that particular area I can no longer attack or be attacked by the apposing faction unless I flag myself for pvp. Now comparing that to Balista, or the exiting the Abyss there is a feeling of emersion ending for me because of the short load screen between the zones...Well Aion wasn't a good example for that because it does have open world pvp... w/e
To me this is what people are talking about when they say "open world" vs instanced pvp. Even though there is a clear definition of what "instanced" is in mmo's, people use the term loosely because of how the experience feels to them. If I can walk outside the city gates and attack anyone I want when I want, without having to load to another specific area, people are now saying that's open world, but if I have to port or load to a pvp area they say it's instanced. So I conclude that it's not really about zones or areas as much as it's about the feeling of the experience for the players.
After noticing some peoples' comments regarding the WvW areas (to avoid upsetting anyone on this apparently delicate subject), I think it's important to clarify that the Mists area does reset. The last time I checked (few weeks ago), the Mists area woudl be accessed by each of the 3 factions which are chosen from 3 seperate servers. After 2-3 weeks of pvp in the Mists, a winner is determined, ranks are adjusted for each faction, and the Mists resets. Again, 3 factions from 3 different servers are pitted against one another and the process repeats. It's sort of like cross-server WvW comeptition. You won't play against the same enemy factions from your server. You'll always be playing factions from servers different from the previous few weeks.
After noticing some peoples' comments regarding the WvW areas (to avoid upsetting anyone on this apparently delicate subject), I think it's important to clarify that the Mists area does reset. The last time I checked (few weeks ago), the Mists area woudl be accessed by each of the 3 factions which are chosen from 3 seperate servers. After 2-3 weeks of pvp in the Mists, a winner is determined, ranks are adjusted for each faction, and the Mists resets. Again, 3 factions from 3 different servers are pitted against one another and the process repeats. It's sort of like cross-server WvW comeptition. You won't play against the same enemy factions from your server. You'll always be playing factions from servers different from the previous few weeks.
But it is also very important to note that, unlike instances, WvWvW is never copied for a new group of people. Well...It is, but nobody thinks making a new copy every 3 servers is instancing...no...not even the hypothetical forum troll I am pretending to have a reasonable debate with...in my head...
this is directed at everybody btw, not any one person or group of persons...
I think at this point I am tempted to say "Just wait a week, play the game, make your own decisions, and tell us what your honest opinions are then." Try not to use words for which your definition is different. If you feel like saying you think WvWvW feels like an instanced BG, say so. Don't say it IS an instanced BG, because it obviously (to people paying attention) isn't. If you feel like saying WvWvW isn't as good as open world PvP, try to realize that others have the opposite opinion.
Have fun discussing yet another topic into oblivion for another week before these posts all become irrelevant, and we all (if you pre-purchased) have hands on experience with the game.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
No matter how much you explain, no matter how much information you provide, it will never match finding that EUREKA!! moment when you finally understood what W v W v W is and whether or not its what you wanted in an MMO.
My suggestion is to borrow your friend's GW2, play for a few days, then decide if its for you or not.
For me, W v W v W is what i am looking for, a huge zone that I can level from 1 to 80, use siege weapons to destroy my foes. Have well strategized wars against other servers. Put my Guild Banner on castles or keeps and battling it out weeks at a time.
Knowing full well that the W v W v W resets in 2 weeks and that we will be matched against other winners and beating them as well.
If all it takes is Instanced to keep you from playing GW2, then be my guest, there is no wrong in that.
Some people will never touch a game that has the letter A in them, not my problem.
Will there be portals, instances ? yes, will they bother me ? no, will they bother you? who knows
Regardless of what anyone says, there is instances, even if its just 1 instance, there is an instance. So there you go, you have your answer.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
I suggest that people that MUST HAVE "World PvP"....stay away from GW2. If WvWvW isn't enough for you, just simply don't play. It's not that difficult a decision to make.
Go-away-if-you-don't-like-what-I-like was old back in 2007 and it's amazing (and not exactly in a good sense) people still use it.
Personally, I don't really need OWPvP yet I wouldn't be mad even if GW2 actually featured full loot FFA. But in any case, "don't play" should be used with care. More than a handful of MMO crashed and burned simply because nobody stayed to play for long. And then there's also attitude issue. The general consensus seems to be that the quality of MMO communities dropped sharply in recent years. Well, then everyone should ask themselves "maybe it's partially my fault too?"
But back to the topic: if ANet implemented OWPvP with full opt-out a-la Rift, I don't see how it could possibly hurt anyone. If you can't accidentally tag yourself, how is that bad for you that someone else is tagged? Besides, ANet promised to add duels (sadly, not at launch) anyway. If 1v1 is okay, why group vs. group isn't?
I don't PvP so it has nothing to DO with "what I like." It has to do with what's available in the game. Open world PvP is not available, so if it's your favorite thing in the world, it only makes sense that perhaps you won't be playing. To twist my words to mean otherwise is just childish on your part. I was in no way saying what you were implying.
Comments
The way I see it is; WvWvW is zoned , but its so massive that it "feels" like open world... If you understand what I mean.
There, I fixed it for you
The pre-order threads are stupid too. But "I'm going to love this game" threads at least promote further conversation. THIS post above, on the other hand is just "Na na I'm not gonna play it," PERIOD. It doesn't need any follow up conversation, because after all....he's not going to play it, so what is there to discuss? 18 pages means people are bored, not necessarily entranced by the topic of "discussion" if you can call it that. And Distopia, I know you hate when people disagree with you, but that's just how it is. We're not going to agree on much of anything, this included.
I suggest that people that MUST HAVE "World PvP"....stay away from GW2. If WvWvW isn't enough for you, just simply don't play. It's not that difficult a decision to make.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Open PvP can only work in a game designed around it. WvW was created as a compromise for people that like Open world PvP, while protecting PvEers from the griefers.
If a game isn't designed from the ground up to be a PvP game, it will ended up failing and punishing the majority of the players which usually happens to be PvEers. I love PvP, but I hate open world PvP because its usually some punk hiding waiting for me to miss up while PvEing to come kill me, most of the time they don't have the guts to fight 1v1 unless they whole in a zerg.
Personally, I don't really need OWPvP yet I wouldn't be mad even if GW2 actually featured full loot FFA. But in any case, "don't play" should be used with care. More than a handful of MMO crashed and burned simply because nobody stayed to play for long. And then there's also attitude issue. The general consensus seems to be that the quality of MMO communities dropped sharply in recent years. Well, then everyone should ask themselves "maybe it's partially my fault too?"
But back to the topic: if ANet implemented OWPvP with full opt-out a-la Rift, I don't see how it could possibly hurt anyone. If you can't accidentally tag yourself, how is that bad for you that someone else is tagged? Besides, ANet promised to add duels (sadly, not at launch) anyway. If 1v1 is okay, why group vs. group isn't?
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
The way I see it is; WvWvW is Instanced , but its so massive that it "feels" like open world... If you understand what I mean.
There i fixed it for you , its got pop caps and is a CLOSED system , its is not an open system with in said zones.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I think it would be awesome if they introduced a guild war system like in TERA or EVE where you can declare wars and fight for a certain amount of time against players of the enemy guild in the open world. When it's over, the statistics determine a winner.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
The only reason why people would want traditional open world pvp is if they want to gank low level players. The WvWvW format is a structured way of open world pvp.
I guess some people dont like structured pvp and like time played over actual skill.
-I am here to perform logic
Honestly , guild based pvp is far less epic and driving for 99% of the player base. Where as realm/server based factions for pvp incorperate all , for that much more epicness and ease of entry to the pvp system.
Its much liek hardcore raiding, very few people do it in wow , despite the large number of players wow has. Guild based pvp is the same limited number of player actuall get very involved. I like open pvp zones, worlds, w/e over instanced ones , but not enough to require simple solutions resulting in LESS epic ness , less massive, and less fun.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Though in GW2 case it could potentially lead to a whole new sort of griefing. Obstructing LoS and blocking abilities intended for mobs as a quick example. And surely somebody would come up with something more creative. Can work around anything but all the extra coding takes time.
I'm sure the developers considered OWPvP and probably they still do but I can see why it's not high on their priority list.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
I just think they don't know better, or are bad and like to to unfairly gank.
DAoc had open world pvp, depending on server rule set most where in specified zones, allowing people to exp w/o being ganked, or people risking being ganked for a bonus rate of exp ~10-20%
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Yeah but the person that guy quoted said as much, don't remove the quotes if your gonna say the same thing already stated.
Yes its epic mmopvp, its 300 x3 per intsanced zone, with 4 zones. 900 per "zone"/ instance they are trying to set it at 400 per server per instance = 1200 total per instance. Some of the eariler comments satated they wanted to push it to 500 if possible.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Knock it the F off with this misapplied term. WvW is ZONED, IT is persistent, it only has 1 version, you can leave freely and return at will, it does not reset (the 2 week thing is just to tabulate scores and assign new ranks).
WvW IS ZONE.
In massively multiplayer online games, an instance is a special area, typically a dungeon, that generates a new copy of the location for each group, or for certain number of players, that enters the area.[1] Instancing, the general term for the use of this technique,[1] addresses several problems encountered by players in the shared spaces of virtual worlds.
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MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
How do you limit the number of players in a non-instanced zone?
You're still using the wrong definition of "instance" I think.
The answer is shards, and only Eve Online (that I know of) maintains a single shard for all it's players. That's a heavily zoned game however, but every now and then ungodly numbers of players meet in a single zone (system) for some insane PvP. In that case they use time-dilation... slow the universe down as a whole to minimize lag.
Let's see... Wintergrasp does it by throwing people out over a certain (really small) number... GW2 will do it by having a cap for each server and the option to queue or go to a different zone in WvW. Games also have caps on the populations for a server to accomplish this.
Oderint, dum metuant.
GW2 has zoned world PvP.
Is it instanced? Depends on your "terminology". Instanced in MMORPG terms stands for,
In massively multiplayer online games, an instance is a special area, typically a dungeon, that generates a new copy of the location for each group, or for certain number of players, that enters the area.
So with that definition, WvW is not instanced, it does not create a new copy of the area for each group that enters it, instead it is a zone, as to where anyone on those servers, has only those 4 zones, they are not instances, It is not a copy of each one, Each one is the "Home Land" for each server, then the 4th is an added battlezone. Yes 3 of them are similar in design, but you can travel from one to the other freely, and participate at any time.
With that said, it is not open world PvP, thats what i was trying to argue earlier, its PvE and its PvP are seperated. I think the proper terminology for WvW is ZWPVP (zoned world PvP). it isn't an instance, clearly, it is zoned, but it is not open, the counter to that is it is not a scenario, it is a world. It has its own events, And it is where you go to PvP.
Back to the instanced thing, i think people are arguing it is instanced because it was said in the ANet blog that there might be a que at high traffic times. What that means is the servers are full. It doesn't mean they are generating another "instance" of this PvP world. With time, they will be able to raise the server caps above the high traffic times, causing there to be minimal if any ques at all. They can't make the game perfect on day 1, no one wants to get into WvW and crash the servers, start small. And expand on that.
This argument is a merry-go-round. This post is my personal oppinion, please don't take offense to it. I wrote it feeling people are arguing the same things, but using different words, causing them to argue towards a similar idea.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
Then you do not know what an instance is, but reallly it doesnt matter, I for one am glad you wont be there.
World pvp yes but not open world pvp. Big difference.
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"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Eve has less graphical requirements than newer games. Open space does that, you just have to worry about black as a background. IN a game like gw2 where you have so many colors and landscapes, a single server as expansive as it is is impractical.
I agree with you on certain levels, I'll use Aion for example; When you "Zone" into the Abyss I don't consider that an instance but rather a very large zone. However, considering the fact that there are different sections of the Abyss where you have to load into it, made it feel instanced to me in terms of the events that would occur. In one "zone" or "Instance" ABC events would be taking place, whereas in another zone or "instance" XYZ event would be taking place. By loading from one Zone to another, thus somewhat ending your experience of a certain event from one zone to the next, to me brings that "instanced" feel.
However, some don't consider the variabled events of the zone or instance the absolute factors that decides whether or not it will be classified as either. When comparing games such as WoW, Aion, FFXI and GW2 (Those are my choices to compare) I don't think of the experience in each zone as what classifies it, but rather how connected is that zone or instance to the other major areas of the game i.e. In FFXI Balista takes place on Bibiki Bay(I think... its been a while), but it's clearly instanced, but in WoW when I enter an open world pvp area I'm clearly warned (without a load screen) that I could be attacked even though this area is apart of the open world, and when I leave that particular area I can no longer attack or be attacked by the apposing faction unless I flag myself for pvp. Now comparing that to Balista, or the exiting the Abyss there is a feeling of emersion ending for me because of the short load screen between the zones...Well Aion wasn't a good example for that because it does have open world pvp... w/e
To me this is what people are talking about when they say "open world" vs instanced pvp. Even though there is a clear definition of what "instanced" is in mmo's, people use the term loosely because of how the experience feels to them. If I can walk outside the city gates and attack anyone I want when I want, without having to load to another specific area, people are now saying that's open world, but if I have to port or load to a pvp area they say it's instanced. So I conclude that it's not really about zones or areas as much as it's about the feeling of the experience for the players.
After noticing some peoples' comments regarding the WvW areas (to avoid upsetting anyone on this apparently delicate subject), I think it's important to clarify that the Mists area does reset. The last time I checked (few weeks ago), the Mists area woudl be accessed by each of the 3 factions which are chosen from 3 seperate servers. After 2-3 weeks of pvp in the Mists, a winner is determined, ranks are adjusted for each faction, and the Mists resets. Again, 3 factions from 3 different servers are pitted against one another and the process repeats. It's sort of like cross-server WvW comeptition. You won't play against the same enemy factions from your server. You'll always be playing factions from servers different from the previous few weeks.
But it is also very important to note that, unlike instances, WvWvW is never copied for a new group of people. Well...It is, but nobody thinks making a new copy every 3 servers is instancing...no...not even the hypothetical forum troll I am pretending to have a reasonable debate with...in my head...
this is directed at everybody btw, not any one person or group of persons...
I think at this point I am tempted to say "Just wait a week, play the game, make your own decisions, and tell us what your honest opinions are then." Try not to use words for which your definition is different. If you feel like saying you think WvWvW feels like an instanced BG, say so. Don't say it IS an instanced BG, because it obviously (to people paying attention) isn't. If you feel like saying WvWvW isn't as good as open world PvP, try to realize that others have the opposite opinion.
Have fun discussing yet another topic into oblivion for another week before these posts all become irrelevant, and we all (if you pre-purchased) have hands on experience with the game.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
No matter how much you explain, no matter how much information you provide, it will never match finding that EUREKA!! moment when you finally understood what W v W v W is and whether or not its what you wanted in an MMO.
My suggestion is to borrow your friend's GW2, play for a few days, then decide if its for you or not.
For me, W v W v W is what i am looking for, a huge zone that I can level from 1 to 80, use siege weapons to destroy my foes. Have well strategized wars against other servers. Put my Guild Banner on castles or keeps and battling it out weeks at a time.
Knowing full well that the W v W v W resets in 2 weeks and that we will be matched against other winners and beating them as well.
If all it takes is Instanced to keep you from playing GW2, then be my guest, there is no wrong in that.
Some people will never touch a game that has the letter A in them, not my problem.
Will there be portals, instances ? yes, will they bother me ? no, will they bother you? who knows
Regardless of what anyone says, there is instances, even if its just 1 instance, there is an instance. So there you go, you have your answer.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
I don't PvP so it has nothing to DO with "what I like." It has to do with what's available in the game. Open world PvP is not available, so if it's your favorite thing in the world, it only makes sense that perhaps you won't be playing. To twist my words to mean otherwise is just childish on your part. I was in no way saying what you were implying.
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