Like I said, it's the game's fault for the most part - if GW2 had OWPVP with a system in place to make sure no one could be unfairly killed by someone who just happens to be higher level, then have their bodies camped, I'd be all for it. As it stands I don't like the current OWPVP model, and I think people who do mostly fall into the popularized category. That's just my opinion.
Hopefully I'm not opening Pandora's box with this one.. .but that's actually exactly what happened during Tera's beta. Granted, it doesn't have the same system UO had to make PKing a detriment, but few games have a system like that nowadays. That's why there are a lot of those stereotypes, because there are enough people to continuously reinforce them.
People's response was 'just switch channels' which worked for a time, but soon enough there were PKs camping every channel.
This is true there are a lot of gankers out there, but there are just as many leet PVEers who are just as toxic if not more so, yet PVE is never judged in such a way when mentioned.
Wow, you're really hanging by a thread with that comment.
Like I said, it's the game's fault for the most part - if GW2 had OWPVP with a system in place to make sure no one could be unfairly killed by someone who just happens to be higher level, then have their bodies camped, I'd be all for it. As it stands I don't like the current OWPVP model, and I think people who do mostly fall into the popularized category. That's just my opinion.
Hopefully I'm not opening Pandora's box with this one.. .but that's actually exactly what happened during Tera's beta. Granted, it doesn't have the same system UO had to make PKing a detriment, but few games have a system like that nowadays. That's why there are a lot of those stereotypes, because there are enough people to continuously reinforce them.
People's response was 'just switch channels' which worked for a time, but soon enough there were PKs camping every channel.
This is true there are a lot of gankers out there, but there are just as many leet PVEers who are just as toxic if not more so, yet PVE is never judged in such a way when mentioned.
Thats because there isnt much a PvEer can do to mess up your game.
The more popular complaint I have seen, are ninja looters, happens a lot in WoW and Aion, and people scream about it.
This is true there are a lot of gankers out there, but there are just as many leet PVEers who are just as toxic if not more so, yet PVE is never judged in such a way when mentioned.
This is true there are a lot of gankers out there, but there are just as many leet PVEers who are just as toxic if not more so, yet PVE is never judged in such a way when mentioned.
Toxic in what way?
I'm referring to attitudes there. It's largely that type that ruin just about every general chat channel out there.There were the ninja's in WOW, the trainers in EQ etc. Those that make the game all about gear for themselves and judge everyone based on it. Then of course the leet ganker types, all of these folks bring down communities.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This is true there are a lot of gankers out there, but there are just as many leet PVEers who are just as toxic if not more so, yet PVE is never judged in such a way when mentioned.
Toxic in what way?
I'm referring to attitudes there. It's largely that type that ruin just about every general chat channel out there.There were the ninja's in WOW, the trainers in EQ etc. Those that make the game all about gear for themselves and judge everyone based on it. Then of course the leet ganker types, all of these folks bring down communities.
That's not PvE'ers.
That's everyone including PvE, PvP, market players, etc. Should have been pretty evident that everyone can be a dick.
Thats because there isnt much a PvEer can do to mess up your game.
This is what I don't understand, how Is a PVPer going to mess up your game? Why would you be exposed to them if you don't want to be? We are talking "open-world" PVP here I haven't seen anyone saying thay want GW2 to be full loot FFA.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This is true there are a lot of gankers out there, but there are just as many leet PVEers who are just as toxic if not more so, yet PVE is never judged in such a way when mentioned.
Toxic in what way?
I'm referring to attitudes there. It's largely that type that ruin just about every general chat channel out there.There were the ninja's in WOW, the trainers in EQ etc. Those that make the game all about gear for themselves and judge everyone based on it. Then of course the leet ganker types, all of these folks bring down communities.
That's not PvE'ers.
That's everyone including PvE, PvP, market players, etc. Should have been pretty evident that everyone can be a dick.
Exactly. Some how PVPers are going to ruin PVEers game...the only way they could do that would be through chat and bringing down the community just as any PVEer can do.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This is true there are a lot of gankers out there, but there are just as many leet PVEers who are just as toxic if not more so, yet PVE is never judged in such a way when mentioned.
Toxic in what way?
I'm referring to attitudes there. It's largely that type that ruin just about every general chat channel out there.There were the ninja's in WOW, the trainers in EQ etc. Those that make the game all about gear for themselves and judge everyone based on it. Then of course the leet ganker types, all of these folks bring down communities.
That's not PvE'ers.
That's everyone including PvE, PvP, market players, etc. Should have been pretty evident that everyone can be a dick.
Exactly. Some how PVPers are going to ruin PVEers game...the only way they could do that would be through chat and bringing down the community just as any PVEer can do.
Yes, PvE players can be emotionally hurtful towards others with words.
PvPers get to not only damage people emotionally with words, they get to corpsecamp people so that they get so frustrated with a game they quit.
And the most important thing is... people actually do bitch all the time about PvEers being elitist pricks. So your comparison of PvEers not getting the same treatment for being awful just doesn't hold up. There is an ignore feature and a report feature for a reason.
To add to that, ganking does not allow an ignore feature when someone is griefing you.
Thats because there isnt much a PvEer can do to mess up your game.
This is what I don't understand, how Is a PVPer going to mess up your game? Why would you be exposed to them if you don't want to be?
.....because PKing and then camping your corpse physically prevents you from doing anything in the game?
As colddog said, anyone can be a dick. That's not a trait unique to PvErs. One might even argue that stealing your epic boots is slightly less dickish than sitting there and physically preventing you from experiencing a game. But hey, that's just me.
Mob trains & such were annoying, but haven't existence since games like EQ, because in nearly every MMO that has been launched in the passed decade, mobs reset / are tethered, or only focus on the person training them. You can't really do that w/ WoW, or Rift, or TOR, or WAR, or LotRO, etc. etc.
Yes, PvE players can be emotionally hurtful towards others with words.
PvPers get to not only damage people emotionally with words, they get to corpsecamp people so that they get so frustrated with a game they quit.
And the most important thing is... people actually do bitch all the time about PvEers being elitist pricks. So your comparison of PvEers not getting the same treatment for being awful just doesn't hold up. There is an ignore feature and a report feature for a reason.
To add to that, ganking does not allow an ignore feature when someone is griefing you.
The only person who is getting griefed in a PVP game are those who subject themselves to that style of play. That is the key factor here. There are many ways to have forms of open-world PVP yet not expose those who do not want to take part. Different servers, flagging toggles, TEF's, guild warring, etc...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yes, PvE players can be emotionally hurtful towards others with words.
PvPers get to not only damage people emotionally with words, they get to corpsecamp people so that they get so frustrated with a game they quit.
And the most important thing is... people actually do bitch all the time about PvEers being elitist pricks. So your comparison of PvEers not getting the same treatment for being awful just doesn't hold up. There is an ignore feature and a report feature for a reason.
To add to that, ganking does not allow an ignore feature when someone is griefing you.
The only person who is getting griefed in a PVP game are those who subject themselves to that style of play. That is the key factor here. There are many ways to have forms of open-world PVP yet not expose those who do not want to take part. Different servers, flagging toggles, TEF's, guild warring, etc...
Oh, yeah. You're suggesting they have specific PvP servers where they might have some open world PvP or even possibly FFA PvP.
I can understand some people wanting that. It seems pretty tough to fit into their overall design in PvE areas, but I can definitely see why people would be interested in that.
Oh, yeah. You're suggesting they have specific PvP servers where they might have some open world PvP or even possibly FFA PvP.
I can understand some people wanting that. It seems pretty tough to fit into their overall design in PvE areas, but I can definitely see why people would be interested in that.
What I would prefer is use of flags, toggle on or toggle off overt pvp status(individual basis or guild), that way for those who want it, the entire game is open for PVP, for those who don't they have the mists and competitive PVP as options, and can stay clear of the FFA people.
Win WIn if their servers could handle it, how chatotic would it be to have a de going on then at the same time a guild PVP battle move through? Would be crazy to see.
IF I was seeing that in these beta videos I'd be more excited about this game than any other in history.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The only person who is getting griefed in a PVP game are those who subject themselves to that style of play. That is the key factor here. There are many ways to have forms of open-world PVP yet not expose those who do not want to take part. Different servers, flagging toggles, TEF's, guild warring, etc...
That would be cool, but experience has shown that those servers don't tend to hold up very well, unless you have a game designed around it. What it would basically come down to is diverting Anet's attention & resources to trying to fit in this mechanic in a way that works / makes sense, when chances are many of those same servers will be suffering in a few months time.
WAR had this problem, as did WoW, AoC, and TOR. OPvP really seems to only hold up in games designed for it. (i.e. UO, Shadowbane, etc.)
What I would prefer is use of flags, toggle on or toggle off overt pvp status(individual basis or guild), that way for those who want it, the entire game is open for PVP, for those who don't they have the mists and competitive PVP as options, and can stay clear of the FFA people.
Win WIn if their servers could handle it, how chatotic would it be to have a de going on then at the same time a guild PVP battle move through? Would be crazy to see.
I suppose they could always add that. Not really sure how much benefit you would get out of such a system, but I don't think it would necessarily hurt either. Only issue would be if AoEs flag people or not (hopefully not). I would hate to accidently attack a flagged player, because he wants to kill someone and I want to focus on the DE.
I suppose they could always add that. Not really sure how much benefit you would get out of such a system, but I don't think it would necessarily hurt either. Only issue would be if AoEs flag people or not (hopefully not). I would hate to accidently attack a flagged player, because he wants to kill someone and I want to focus on the DE.
Yeah you'd have to make sure AOE's didn't flag SWG had that problem at one point.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
My criticism of that system is that since a very small percentage of people would flag, it would be a nearly useless feature that nobody used. Somewhat like flagging happens on PvE servers in other games.
If 5% flags, they will only ever see the same 5%. This would lead to a useless sytem where no one ever saw someone else to PvP with.
If you want guild on guild action, a better way would be to challenge them in structured PvP.
I think I thought of a perfect analogy for how some PVPers may feel in regard to systems like this. I'll use my city as an example, Baltimore. Basically we're getting our own ghetto, hidden away from the game world, in the deep dark muck, surrounded by all of these nice things our part of the city will not or ever have .
Originally posted by colddog04
If you want guild on guild action, a better way would be to challenge them in structured PvP.
Thats not exactly the best way, but it seems it's the only way haha. :P
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
My criticism of that system is that since a very small percentage of people would flag, it would be a nearly useless feature that nobody used. Somewhat like flagging happens on PvE servers in other games.
If 5% flags, they will only ever see the same 5%. This would lead to a useless sytem where no one ever saw someone else to PvP with.
If you want guild on guild action, a better way would be to challenge them in structured PvP.
I definitely agree. However, once the major issues with the game are fixed, it wouldn't be that big of a deal to implement. It would be a waste of resources to an extent, because very few people would consistantly use it, especially with WvW and instanced PvP so readily available. However, it would be a fairly cheap feature to implement once they have the important stuff out of the way. I wouldn't be against it, but I don't think I'd be using it either. It would be more of a dueling feature if anything I'd imagine.
That said, I really do hope they have some kind of GvG feature like they had in the first game. Those were a big deal, and a ton of fun. I was kinda bummed to see them gone. It does conflict w/ their design philosophy to an extent, though, so I don't see that happening.
Maybe, as you said, people can make custom PvP matchup specifically for guilds... that would probably be the best way to handle it anyway.
If you want guild on guild action, a better way would be to challenge them in structured PvP.
Thats not exactly the best way, but it seems it's the only way haha. :P
It's a good way within the design structure of GW2.
I like EVE for true guild on guild action (corporations). But then that is a comlpetely different design structure from the ground up.
At this point I just hope A-net expands on PVP options and furthers the features associated, as long as that happens I think I'll be fine. Far too many don't even bother going that far.
Hell the last few titles moved backward in regard to PVP after launch.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I've looked all over and cannot really find an exact answer to this.
I've seen this "WvWvW" stuff, but that still looks instanced to me.
I'm talking about open world pvp. I'm guessing guild wars 2 doesn't have it?
If not, I'll probably pass on this one.. tired of instanced PVP games.
The way I see it is; WvWvW is instanced, BUT its so massive that it "feels" like open world... If you understand what I mean.
From what I've read, I think the PvP aspect will be just as seemless in this game as in any other game without open world pvp. I also noticed the title under your avatar portrait says FFXI correspondent, don't worry though, this will be nothing like signing up for Balista x-D
Your server is your Guild, the people in the same server are all Allies and they are working together all the time, having world pvp in this game would be stupid since what matters is the union between guilds and alliances to be, the better server.
Comments
Wow, you're really hanging by a thread with that comment.
Thats because there isnt much a PvEer can do to mess up your game.
The more popular complaint I have seen, are ninja looters, happens a lot in WoW and Aion, and people scream about it.
Toxic in what way?
My thoughts exactly. Which wasn't really a problem I had much w/ Tera, and certainly isn't a problem with GW2.
Honestly the worst example of this I can think of would be FFXI, but that's not a very common situation amongst MMOs.
I'm referring to attitudes there. It's largely that type that ruin just about every general chat channel out there.There were the ninja's in WOW, the trainers in EQ etc. Those that make the game all about gear for themselves and judge everyone based on it. Then of course the leet ganker types, all of these folks bring down communities.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
A horrible community = a messed up game for me.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That's not PvE'ers.
That's everyone including PvE, PvP, market players, etc. Should have been pretty evident that everyone can be a dick.
This is what I don't understand, how Is a PVPer going to mess up your game? Why would you be exposed to them if you don't want to be? We are talking "open-world" PVP here I haven't seen anyone saying thay want GW2 to be full loot FFA.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Exactly. Some how PVPers are going to ruin PVEers game...the only way they could do that would be through chat and bringing down the community just as any PVEer can do.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yes, PvE players can be emotionally hurtful towards others with words.
PvPers get to not only damage people emotionally with words, they get to corpsecamp people so that they get so frustrated with a game they quit.
And the most important thing is... people actually do bitch all the time about PvEers being elitist pricks. So your comparison of PvEers not getting the same treatment for being awful just doesn't hold up. There is an ignore feature and a report feature for a reason.
To add to that, ganking does not allow an ignore feature when someone is griefing you.
.....because PKing and then camping your corpse physically prevents you from doing anything in the game?
As colddog said, anyone can be a dick. That's not a trait unique to PvErs. One might even argue that stealing your epic boots is slightly less dickish than sitting there and physically preventing you from experiencing a game. But hey, that's just me.
Mob trains & such were annoying, but haven't existence since games like EQ, because in nearly every MMO that has been launched in the passed decade, mobs reset / are tethered, or only focus on the person training them. You can't really do that w/ WoW, or Rift, or TOR, or WAR, or LotRO, etc. etc.
The only person who is getting griefed in a PVP game are those who subject themselves to that style of play. That is the key factor here. There are many ways to have forms of open-world PVP yet not expose those who do not want to take part. Different servers, flagging toggles, TEF's, guild warring, etc...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Oh, yeah. You're suggesting they have specific PvP servers where they might have some open world PvP or even possibly FFA PvP.
I can understand some people wanting that. It seems pretty tough to fit into their overall design in PvE areas, but I can definitely see why people would be interested in that.
What I would prefer is use of flags, toggle on or toggle off overt pvp status(individual basis or guild), that way for those who want it, the entire game is open for PVP, for those who don't they have the mists and competitive PVP as options, and can stay clear of the FFA people.
Win WIn if their servers could handle it, how chatotic would it be to have a de going on then at the same time a guild PVP battle move through? Would be crazy to see.
IF I was seeing that in these beta videos I'd be more excited about this game than any other in history.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That would be cool, but experience has shown that those servers don't tend to hold up very well, unless you have a game designed around it. What it would basically come down to is diverting Anet's attention & resources to trying to fit in this mechanic in a way that works / makes sense, when chances are many of those same servers will be suffering in a few months time.
WAR had this problem, as did WoW, AoC, and TOR. OPvP really seems to only hold up in games designed for it. (i.e. UO, Shadowbane, etc.)
I suppose they could always add that. Not really sure how much benefit you would get out of such a system, but I don't think it would necessarily hurt either. Only issue would be if AoEs flag people or not (hopefully not). I would hate to accidently attack a flagged player, because he wants to kill someone and I want to focus on the DE.
Yeah you'd have to make sure AOE's didn't flag SWG had that problem at one point.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
My criticism of that system is that since a very small percentage of people would flag, it would be a nearly useless feature that nobody used. Somewhat like flagging happens on PvE servers in other games.
If 5% flags, they will only ever see the same 5%. This would lead to a useless sytem where no one ever saw someone else to PvP with.
If you want guild on guild action, a better way would be to challenge them in structured PvP.
*devil's advocate*
actually you have it backwards. the WvWvW is the open world pvp. the PvE looks instanced because you have to leave WvWvW to do pve.
I think I thought of a perfect analogy for how some PVPers may feel in regard to systems like this. I'll use my city as an example, Baltimore. Basically we're getting our own ghetto, hidden away from the game world, in the deep dark muck, surrounded by all of these nice things our part of the city will not or ever have
.
Thats not exactly the best way, but it seems it's the only way haha. :P
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I definitely agree. However, once the major issues with the game are fixed, it wouldn't be that big of a deal to implement. It would be a waste of resources to an extent, because very few people would consistantly use it, especially with WvW and instanced PvP so readily available. However, it would be a fairly cheap feature to implement once they have the important stuff out of the way. I wouldn't be against it, but I don't think I'd be using it either. It would be more of a dueling feature if anything I'd imagine.
That said, I really do hope they have some kind of GvG feature like they had in the first game. Those were a big deal, and a ton of fun. I was kinda bummed to see them gone. It does conflict w/ their design philosophy to an extent, though, so I don't see that happening.
Maybe, as you said, people can make custom PvP matchup specifically for guilds... that would probably be the best way to handle it anyway.
It's a good way within the design structure of GW2.
I like EVE for true guild on guild action (corporations). But then that is a comlpetely different design structure from the ground up.
At this point I just hope A-net expands on PVP options and furthers the features associated, as long as that happens I think I'll be fine. Far too many don't even bother going that far.
Hell the last few titles moved backward in regard to PVP after launch.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The way I see it is; WvWvW is instanced, BUT its so massive that it "feels" like open world... If you understand what I mean.
From what I've read, I think the PvP aspect will be just as seemless in this game as in any other game without open world pvp. I also noticed the title under your avatar portrait says FFXI correspondent, don't worry though, this will be nothing like signing up for Balista x-D
I hated that too lol
Your server is your Guild, the people in the same server are all Allies and they are working together all the time, having world pvp in this game would be stupid since what matters is the union between guilds and alliances to be, the better server.