Dave Georgeson Discusses How EQNext May Have Multiclasses Like FFIX/FFXIV

Dejoblue

Apologies as this is being discussed in another thread.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/952/view/forums/thread/389194/Change-Roles-Ingame-Confirmed.html

 

Feel free to delete or lock or w/e the moderation gods will do with this.

Thank you for your time.

 

I was watching the Pax East MMORPG Future of MMO Games summit and at 41:00 the question is asked about FinalFantasy where you can level every class and why that is not done in many other MMOs.

 

45:50 Dave speaks and explains what direction may be taken in EQN,

Dave Georgeson: "I agree with Chris. Let's say I have a character that I really, really like. And I've named him and I wrote a background for him and I figured out what he looks like and I've created his house and all this other stuff. I don't feel like I should have to be relegated to a single class. I don't feel like that that's a restriction that needs to happen. And I do believe that there are ways to balance the game to be able to let you have more choice. Because ultimately this is a role playing game and you should be able to play the role that you want to play. Without necessarily having to recreate another character. My opinion. And I think that there's a lot of ways we can go down those paths so that they are really interesting and very cool for the players. And we will be pushing that a lot farther."

Chris:"In EQNext."

Dave: "In EQ Next."

Everyone laughs.

So gang, how do you feel about EQN possibly having the ability to level all classes or abilities or a vast majority of them on one character?

Pigglesworth

This would be my preference. Either an open system like Elder Scrolls Online or even a job system like Final Fantasy (whatever the number is these days).

I want to be able to have one character instead of several alts. Now, do not get me wrong, I do not want to be able to do everything at the same time, but I want to be tank, ranged DPS, healer, and utility, just not at the same time. I need to have limited abilities usable at any given time, but I definitely would like to be able to spends years maxing out one character instead of having several maxed alts that I have to switch between all the time.

Alts are especially an issue with special events, like holiday, xpac, etc. I hate having to do all the events on each character.

Just let me have one character that I can put years into.

wizardanim

I do like the idea of having a single character that develops with how you play them.  If this were true though, for whatever method they choose to implement, i'd like to see advancement in each direction.  This wouldn't turn into a skill template, rather a completely new character template.

Leveling a character to max level, then applying tank vs dps doesn't appeal to me.

Pigglesworth

Why should anyone have to create a new character because they want to do something different then they have for the last year? Isn't that the point of a sandbox? Freedom. If I am a tank for a year and decide that I would like to start to learn magic, why would I suddenly have to lose all my tanking abilities? If I decide to be a tank, well, I put tanking armor on and use my tanking abilities. If I want to learn magic, I put robes on and study magic for a while and use it instead. Just because I am learning more, does not mean I forget everything else I ever knew.

I probably shouldn't be able to tank well in magical robes or cast spells very well in armor, but doesn't mean that I can't change my gear occasionally and do something different with my life every now and then.

Theocritus

Don't know why but I get the feeling that EQN is going to suck.

wizardanim

Originally posted by Selirion

Originally posted by MalcontentTWR

Why should anyone have to create a new character because they want to do something different then they have for the last year? Isn't that the point of a sandbox? Freedom. If I am a tank for a year and decide that I would like to start to learn magic, why would I suddenly have to lose all my tanking abilities? If I decide to be a tank, well, I put tanking armor on and use my tanking abilities. If I want to learn magic, I put robes on and study magic for a while and use it instead. Just because I am learning more, does not mean I forget everything else I ever knew.

I probably shouldn't be able to tank well in magical robes or cast spells very well in armor, but doesn't mean that I can't change my gear occasionally and do something different with my life every now and then.

the only acceptable compromise is dropping to half your current level, 30 minute casting time, 1 month reuse

otherwise, without that compromise, you drop to LVL 1

players should have to specialize & they should have to establish a reputation as a certain class, not twelve or three or even two

phukkin corrupt mods banning me... ~_~''...

I think you might misunderstand the point?  I think the point of MalcontentTWR's post isn't that you become established in all classes at once, rather, if you play a tank you develop tanking skills.  If you play a healer, you develop healing skills.

I agree, you very much have you establish your reputation as a certain class.  If you were to change from tank to healer, you'd need to start over.  That doesn't mean you'd need to re-create your character though.

Waterlily

Originally posted by dejoblue

Because ultimately this is a role playing game and you should be able to play the role that you want to play.

You can just as easily say this:

Because ultimately this is a role playing game and you should play the role you chose to play.

I  will have a much harder time associating a person with their role if they are allowed to switch it every minute like in Rift.

Pigglesworth

 

the gist of Smokejumper's quote though, seems to be that he doesnt necessarily support starting over if you change core classes from fighter to priest... x_o''...

And thankfully so. It just doesn't make sense to have some arbitrary penalty because you decided to expand your horizons and learn something new.

Dejoblue

Maybe I will finally be able to make a Druid tank that wears a mix of leather and plate and dual wields daggers!

Waterlily

Originally posted by dejoblue
Maybe I will finally be able to make a Druid tank that wears a mix of leather and plate and dual wields daggers!

Stop giving them ideas!

azzamasin

Sounds very much like a open ended skill based class system is in the works and if so I am even more excited.  I always disliked the rigid class systems of games like WoW, EQ1 and Neverwinter.  I much prefer the skill based systems seen in Asheron's Call, Fallen Earth or if you go the class based system then go in a way similar to Rift or Elder Scrolls Online.

Khebeln

+1 for open class system on 1 character !

Will it be as open as in Rift or more structured like in FF14 ARR i will be happy either way.

I say big NO to 1 class per character. Due to silly restrictions like that you wont ever touch most of the other classes. If you are hardcore player you dont really have time to level 20 alts to cover every class.

The moment i need to level alt is the moment i quit the game. I hate alts with a passion. The diference is that in system like that if you want to make an alt, you can. Not like you need to.

But the other way around you dont have that choice, and it will be killing the game. Particulary if its a Sandbox.

ElRenmazuo

Being able to change to another class and mixing classes with the subjob system on one character was one of the best things about final fantasy 11.  But its doesnt mean everyone played multiple roles all the time because getting one job to level took long enough in that game so most people focused on one role majority of their game time.  I was a Dark Knight for like half a year and thats how long it took to get it to max level until I decided to level Blue Mage when that came out in an expansion.  The only other jobs I leveled was ninja and warrior only to level 37 for subjob purposes since in that game the subjob is only able to be half of your mains level like Dark Knight lvl 10/Warrior lvl 5.

In FFXIV even tho its easier to level and your free to mix class actions with eachother, but when it comes to the JOBS your only able to mix with its two corresponding classes and that your not able to change classes/jobs once you enter the dungeon.  In both games majority of players focused on one class/job majority of their time.

Anyway I think its great that EQ will adapt a similar feature.  Its also what I like about ESO too which has more freedom similar to Ultima Online.

craftseeker

Originally posted by azzamasin
Sounds very much like a open ended skill based class system is in the works and if so I am even more excited.  I always disliked the rigid class systems of games like WoW, EQ1 and Neverwinter.  I much prefer the skill based systems seen in Asheron's Call, Fallen Earth or if you go the class based system then go in a way similar to Rift or Elder Scrolls Online.

An open ended skill based system that allows you to build a character with the characteristics you want. Koool

A system that allows a character to be a raid primary tank one minute and a main tank healer 10 minutes later.  Not cool at all.

I do not know ESO, but RIft was (and is) a dogs breakfast.

Murugan

Originally posted by craftseeker

Originally posted by azzamasin
Sounds very much like a open ended skill based class system is in the works and if so I am even more excited.  I always disliked the rigid class systems of games like WoW, EQ1 and Neverwinter.  I much prefer the skill based systems seen in Asheron's Call, Fallen Earth or if you go the class based system then go in a way similar to Rift or Elder Scrolls Online.

An open ended skill based system that allows you to build a character with the characteristics you want. Koool

A system that allows a character to be a raid primary tank one minute and a main tank healer 10 minutes later.  Not cool at all.

I do not know ESO, but RIft was (and is) a dogs breakfast.

It doesn't take me 10 minutes to log into my alt in Everquest 1.

 

Oh you weren't talking about Everquest 1?  Because people did that ALL THE TIME in Everquest 1.

Dejoblue

Unless I am mistaken he is not talking about leveling a warrior and then leveling a mage and being able to swap between the two. My understanding was level warrior or fighter skills and level mage skills and then you can mix and match them and be say a Battlemage that wears a mix of cloth and plate or a monk that can cast fireballs.

 

Think of how many classes there are in most MMOs, around 10, maybe 4 archetypes and then 4 of each like EQ/EQ2. Now imagine that you are able to level all of those on one character. That is a LOT of leveling and a LOOOOOONG time. Even if EQN is really EQ3, IE a themepark...that is a LOT of content in between raid tiers. But it is sandbox, so...pretty cool.

Aceshighhhh

A lot of you are reading into this video wrong. He most likely means that this game will have an open skill-based system, similar to TES type games.

This is a sandbox game after all, I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't have ANY classes.

ElRenmazuo

Originally posted by craftseeker

Originally posted by azzamasin
Sounds very much like a open ended skill based class system is in the works and if so I am even more excited.  I always disliked the rigid class systems of games like WoW, EQ1 and Neverwinter.  I much prefer the skill based systems seen in Asheron's Call, Fallen Earth or if you go the class based system then go in a way similar to Rift or Elder Scrolls Online.

An open ended skill based system that allows you to build a character with the characteristics you want. Koool

A system that allows a character to be a raid primary tank one minute and a main tank healer 10 minutes later.  Not cool at all.

I do not know ESO, but RIft was (and is) a dogs breakfast.

Unless they have restrictions like not being able to change roles when inside a dungeon.  Or if the player doesnt have his healng skills high enough for the group.  Or if you raise these tanking or dps skills your healing and support skills will go down.

Khebeln

Originally posted by dejoblue

Unless I am mistaken he is not talking about leveling a warrior and then leveling a mage and being able to swap between the two. My understanding was level warrior or fighter skills and level mage skills and then you can mix and match them and be say a Battlemage that wears a mix of cloth and plate or a monk that can cast fireballs.

 

Think of how many classes there are in most MMOs, around 10, maybe 4 archetypes and then 4 of each like EQ/EQ2. Now imagine that you are able to level all of those on one character. That is a LOT of leveling and a LOOOOOONG time. Even if EQN is really EQ3, IE a themepark...that is a LOT of content in between raid tiers. But it is sandbox, so...pretty cool.

As long as its open class system, in any shape or form im cool with it

craftseeker

Originally posted by Murugan

Originally posted by craftseeker

Originally posted by azzamasin
Sounds very much like a open ended skill based class system is in the works and if so I am even more excited.  I always disliked the rigid class systems of games like WoW, EQ1 and Neverwinter.  I much prefer the skill based systems seen in Asheron's Call, Fallen Earth or if you go the class based system then go in a way similar to Rift or Elder Scrolls Online.

An open ended skill based system that allows you to build a character with the characteristics you want. Koool

A system that allows a character to be a raid primary tank one minute and a main tank healer 10 minutes later.  Not cool at all.

I do not know ESO, but RIft was (and is) a dogs breakfast.

It doesn't take me 10 minutes to log into my alt in Everquest 1.

Oh you weren't talking about Everquest 1?  Because people did that ALL THE TIME in Everquest 1.

Character dingbat, character not player.  Your alt was a different character to your main,.

ElRenmazuo

I would rather invest in one character than multiple characters because it makes that one character more special to me and more known to the online community.

JedidiahTheadore

I enjoyed the job system of ffxi, so I would be fine with something similar. Though could take or leave the sub job concept.

Murugan

Originally posted by craftseeker

Originally posted by Murugan

Originally posted by craftseeker

Originally posted by azzamasin
Sounds very much like a open ended skill based class system is in the works and if so I am even more excited.  I always disliked the rigid class systems of games like WoW, EQ1 and Neverwinter.  I much prefer the skill based systems seen in Asheron's Call, Fallen Earth or if you go the class based system then go in a way similar to Rift or Elder Scrolls Online.

An open ended skill based system that allows you to build a character with the characteristics you want. Koool

A system that allows a character to be a raid primary tank one minute and a main tank healer 10 minutes later.  Not cool at all.

I do not know ESO, but RIft was (and is) a dogs breakfast.

It doesn't take me 10 minutes to log into my alt in Everquest 1.

Oh you weren't talking about Everquest 1?  Because people did that ALL THE TIME in Everquest 1.

Character dingbat, character not player.  Your alt was a different character to your main,.

But you are the same player.  What difference does the log screen make?  I don't transform into another person.  is that what you thought happened when the main healer DC'd and someone had to log into their healer alt to replace them?

 

What is honestly the difference between the two other than the person having to make a slightly different name because two characters cannot exist on the same server with the same name?  I leveled both, I had to obviously learn how to play both.  One game just forces me to make an alt, rather than start over on my current character in a new role if I choose.

Dejoblue

Originally posted by craftseeker

Originally posted by Murugan

Originally posted by craftseeker

Originally posted by azzamasin
Sounds very much like a open ended skill based class system is in the works and if so I am even more excited.  I always disliked the rigid class systems of games like WoW, EQ1 and Neverwinter.  I much prefer the skill based systems seen in Asheron's Call, Fallen Earth or if you go the class based system then go in a way similar to Rift or Elder Scrolls Online.

An open ended skill based system that allows you to build a character with the characteristics you want. Koool

A system that allows a character to be a raid primary tank one minute and a main tank healer 10 minutes later.  Not cool at all.

I do not know ESO, but RIft was (and is) a dogs breakfast.

It doesn't take me 10 minutes to log into my alt in Everquest 1.

Oh you weren't talking about Everquest 1?  Because people did that ALL THE TIME in Everquest 1.

Character dingbat, character not player.  Your alt was a different character to your main,.

You missed the point.

Currently I can level a Warrior tank and a Cleric healer and as my guild needs, I simply log over to whichever is needed, in the span of 30 seconds.

Thus, there is little point in restricting classes or roles because in the end, it doesnt matter.

 

As far as roles go, are we really that ignorant guys? Do we really need for the UI to tell us so and so is the tank and bob over there is the healer? We are getting role confused with class here.

The trinity is One who tanks, one who heals and one who DPS's and in older MMOs, like EQ, they even had a fourth role, one who crowd controls. Does it matter what their gear is or what "class" they are if they can do the job?

If a rogue can tank does it matter? RIFT has rogue tanks.

Or I should say, if a leather wearing dual wielding player can tank does it matter?

 

Imagine the raid encounter possibilities. Your rogues can get out of melee range and use their bows and do just as much damage as they did in melee.

A massive amount of damage goes out and your mages have to switch over to using a couple of healing spells they had to sacrifice into their spell gem slots just to keep the raid alive. The tanks have to have 2 DPS abilities because the boss goes berzerk at 10% and there is no threat table.

 

craftseeker

Originally posted by Murugan

Originally posted by craftseeker

Originally posted by Murugan

Originally posted by craftseeker

Originally posted by azzamasin
Sounds very much like a open ended skill based class system is in the works and if so I am even more excited.  I always disliked the rigid class systems of games like WoW, EQ1 and Neverwinter.  I much prefer the skill based systems seen in Asheron's Call, Fallen Earth or if you go the class based system then go in a way similar to Rift or Elder Scrolls Online.

An open ended skill based system that allows you to build a character with the characteristics you want. Koool

A system that allows a character to be a raid primary tank one minute and a main tank healer 10 minutes later.  Not cool at all.

I do not know ESO, but RIft was (and is) a dogs breakfast.

It doesn't take me 10 minutes to log into my alt in Everquest 1.

Oh you weren't talking about Everquest 1?  Because people did that ALL THE TIME in Everquest 1.

Character dingbat, character not player.  Your alt was a different character to your main,.

But you are the same player.  What difference does the log screen make?  I don't transform into another person.  is that what you thought happened when the main healer DC'd and someone had to log into their healer alt to replace them?

LOL

OK I am one of those strange Role Playing types that thinks that the character is the thing, the basis of play.

You seem to be one of those strange folks who think that it is all about the player and their reflexes and skill.

There is no reconciling those two views, so I will not try. But the thing that was under discussion was character progression not player progression.

Murugan

Originally posted by craftseeker

Originally posted by Murugan

Originally posted by craftseeker

Originally posted by Murugan

Originally posted by craftseeker

Originally posted by azzamasin
Sounds very much like a open ended skill based class system is in the works and if so I am even more excited.  I always disliked the rigid class systems of games like WoW, EQ1 and Neverwinter.  I much prefer the skill based systems seen in Asheron's Call, Fallen Earth or if you go the class based system then go in a way similar to Rift or Elder Scrolls Online.

An open ended skill based system that allows you to build a character with the characteristics you want. Koool

A system that allows a character to be a raid primary tank one minute and a main tank healer 10 minutes later.  Not cool at all.

I do not know ESO, but RIft was (and is) a dogs breakfast.

It doesn't take me 10 minutes to log into my alt in Everquest 1.

Oh you weren't talking about Everquest 1?  Because people did that ALL THE TIME in Everquest 1.

Character dingbat, character not player.  Your alt was a different character to your main,.

But you are the same player.  What difference does the log screen make?  I don't transform into another person.  is that what you thought happened when the main healer DC'd and someone had to log into their healer alt to replace them?

LOL

OK I am one of those strange Role Playing types that thinks that the character is the thing, the basis of play.

You seem to be one of those strange folks who think that it is all about the player and their reflexes and skill.

There is no reconciling those two views, so I will not try. But the thing that was under discussion was character progression not player progression.

I guess I'm just one of those roleplaying types that thinks my character is capable of learning to do more than one thing in his entire life.

 

Your role playing character would bore me.  I mean they aren't even just masters of one skill, they literally can't do anything else.  How do you role play that exactly?

 

NO!  STOP don't try and teach me something new my brain is full already and you are going to make it explode!  ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGH