Hopefully we will be able to level each class separately and be forced to grind all the way back up to cap.
I agree. I dont have any issue with playing multiple classes on the same character so long as we have to level each one up individually and can only play one at a time and must return to our house/home town to change.
I have ran a raiding guild for 10+ years. Usually you recruit players by class in guilds like mine to fill raiding spots.
One problem that i noticed when games become a bit stale is that people roll multiple alts and one day they will say "i want to change my class to this class" Healer to DPS. You cant just kick that player so you dont have much choice.
Soon you end up with loads of DPS players (most turn into DPS players sooner or later) and lack of healers and tanks etc.
If you can play all classes on one hcar, you dont even need to roll alts, and while someone might be a great DPS player, they might suck at Healer, but they only sign up as a Healer becouse its "more fun", but you already have 2 dedicated Healers thats been there for a long time that also wants in on the raid.
I dont know..i kinda like the Rift way, but i also see problems with it.
I have ran a raiding guild for 10+ years. Usually you recruit players by class in guilds like mine to fill raiding spots.
One problem that i noticed when games become a bit stale is that people roll multiple alts and one day they will say "i want to change my class to this class" Healer to DPS. You cant just kick that player so you dont have much choice.
Soon you end up with loads of DPS players (most turn into DPS players sooner or later) and lack of healers and tanks etc.
If you can play all classes on one hcar, you dont even need to roll alts, and while someone might be a great DPS player, they might suck at Healer, but they only sign up as a Healer becouse its "more fun", but you already have 2 dedicated Healers thats been there for a long time that also wants in on the raid.
I dont know..i kinda like the Rift way, but i also see problems with it.
This depends on what type of raiding guild you have but the problem exists in every MMO I have played and you just have to include and exclude players based on what they want to do and what their abilities are. If they are a poor healer tell them and they can choose to be a healer and sit out or they can go DPS and participate or they can go off do some research and practice.
You may have a casual guild and I have been there and I wont do it again.
It took me a long time to figure out that it is better to get rid of poor players ASAP because if you do not the good players will attrit their way out of your guild and so goes your roster.
This is a whole other topic tho I will stop there.
But it is unavoidable and it is the only bad part of being a GM.
I am very concerned about this crop of gamers from the "I want it now" generation. What happens in RL when you can't do everything, or buy your way through it?
-dumber stuff
-dumb stuff
For many people their chosen RPG is their hobby. I have played guitar for 24 years. I will never be as good as Steve Vai or Joe Satriani unless I practice 8 - 10 hours a day like they do. But I am happy with 2 - 4 hours day, playing my favorite songs.
I contend that an RPG should strive to have that depth. Pro, hobby and casual. This is what has made DND so great.
Sure there are people that scoff at Steve and Joe practicing 10 hours a day and they dont believe it they think it is some miracle god given talent and many professionals hide behind such claims because they do not want to be criticised for actually practicing that much. Some, like George Lynch, claim to not even know theory. It is all part of a bigger picture of the US where academics is frowned upon. It is replete throughout all of our society and all endeavours.
You redeemed yourself in this post, even though I still think your idea of playing class transformers only breaks the good systems DND introduced to MMOs (EQ1) and serves to trivialize the genre and remove that depth which you speak of.
Nothing I said was dumb and you'd do well to get educated on this subject. I didn't advocate for characters that could "Do it all, at the same time", I simply agree with Dave Georgeson that a person's character should not be bound by an arbitrary restriction for no reason, like a static, unchanging class. Many of us like our character, almost as an extension of ourselves, and over time we might like to play a different role in combat, or try a different class without losing our character's avatar in the process.
This also doesn't break the immersion in any way because changing roles and specialties happens all the time, even in real life. A person can practice to be an excellent swordsman and a skilled archer. During a castle siege, a militia man could easily shoot arrows from behind the wall at the enemy, and if they broke through the defenses could switch to a sword and shield and continue fighting.
A soldier in the US Army might be trained as a ground pounding infantryman, but can easily switch roles to perform the duties of a reconnaissance scout or a IFV commander at a moment's notice, or even pick up the support duties as an ammo supply sergeant or a jump master on an airborne op.
It's also the same as Dungeons and Dragons table top games. A player can come to one game and say his character, Zxcvbnm, is a Wood Elf rogue.. but a few games later he may decide that he want's Zxcvbnm to be a Wood Elf Warrior. Are you telling me that this some how hurts the game? That you would tell that player that he has to pick a different name and avatar representation for his character because he's hurting your game experience? I'd love to see you do that.
Give me a break, troll. One system allows for more freedom while the other one does not. Last I checked people interested in sandbox games were complaining that themepark games lacked freedom, then you turn around and start slinging insults when people agree with a more free-flowing class system?
Hypocrisy at it's best, it seems. But I've come to expect that from your posts.
I have ran a raiding guild for 10+ years. Usually you recruit players by class in guilds like mine to fill raiding spots.
One problem that i noticed when games become a bit stale is that people roll multiple alts and one day they will say "i want to change my class to this class" Healer to DPS. You cant just kick that player so you dont have much choice.
Soon you end up with loads of DPS players (most turn into DPS players sooner or later) and lack of healers and tanks etc.
If you can play all classes on one hcar, you dont even need to roll alts, and while someone might be a great DPS player, they might suck at Healer, but they only sign up as a Healer becouse its "more fun", but you already have 2 dedicated Healers thats been there for a long time that also wants in on the raid.
I dont know..i kinda like the Rift way, but i also see problems with it.
This depends on what type of raiding guild you have but the problem exists in every MMO I have played and you just have to include and exclude players based on what they want to do and what their abilities are. If they are a poor healer tell them and they can choose to be a healer and sit out or they can go DPS and participate or they can go off do some research and practice.
You may have a casual guild and I have been there and I wont do it again.
It took me a long time to figure out that it is better to get rid of poor players ASAP because if you do not the good players will attrit their way out of your guild and so goes your roster.
This is a whole other topic tho I will stop there.
But it is unavoidable and it is the only bad part of being a GM.
Exactly, this happens all the time even without a free-flowing class system. A person gets bored with their class and decides they want to make a new character to become their main. People come and go from guilds, people change classes via alts, or change specs to try a new play style, etc etc and adjustments to the raid roster have to be made. It's just the nature of these games.
A system like the one being talked about here wouldn't have an effect on guild raiding any more than people creating alts does.
Comments
I agree. I dont have any issue with playing multiple classes on the same character so long as we have to level each one up individually and can only play one at a time and must return to our house/home town to change.One problem with this is.
I have ran a raiding guild for 10+ years. Usually you recruit players by class in guilds like mine to fill raiding spots.
One problem that i noticed when games become a bit stale is that people roll multiple alts and one day they will say "i want to change my class to this class" Healer to DPS. You cant just kick that player so you dont have much choice.
Soon you end up with loads of DPS players (most turn into DPS players sooner or later) and lack of healers and tanks etc.
If you can play all classes on one hcar, you dont even need to roll alts, and while someone might be a great DPS player, they might suck at Healer, but they only sign up as a Healer becouse its "more fun", but you already have 2 dedicated Healers thats been there for a long time that also wants in on the raid.
I dont know..i kinda like the Rift way, but i also see problems with it.
This depends on what type of raiding guild you have but the problem exists in every MMO I have played and you just have to include and exclude players based on what they want to do and what their abilities are. If they are a poor healer tell them and they can choose to be a healer and sit out or they can go DPS and participate or they can go off do some research and practice.
You may have a casual guild and I have been there and I wont do it again.
It took me a long time to figure out that it is better to get rid of poor players ASAP because if you do not the good players will attrit their way out of your guild and so goes your roster.
This is a whole other topic tho I will stop there.
But it is unavoidable and it is the only bad part of being a GM.
Nothing I said was dumb and you'd do well to get educated on this subject. I didn't advocate for characters that could "Do it all, at the same time", I simply agree with Dave Georgeson that a person's character should not be bound by an arbitrary restriction for no reason, like a static, unchanging class. Many of us like our character, almost as an extension of ourselves, and over time we might like to play a different role in combat, or try a different class without losing our character's avatar in the process.
This also doesn't break the immersion in any way because changing roles and specialties happens all the time, even in real life. A person can practice to be an excellent swordsman and a skilled archer. During a castle siege, a militia man could easily shoot arrows from behind the wall at the enemy, and if they broke through the defenses could switch to a sword and shield and continue fighting.
A soldier in the US Army might be trained as a ground pounding infantryman, but can easily switch roles to perform the duties of a reconnaissance scout or a IFV commander at a moment's notice, or even pick up the support duties as an ammo supply sergeant or a jump master on an airborne op.
It's also the same as Dungeons and Dragons table top games. A player can come to one game and say his character, Zxcvbnm, is a Wood Elf rogue.. but a few games later he may decide that he want's Zxcvbnm to be a Wood Elf Warrior. Are you telling me that this some how hurts the game? That you would tell that player that he has to pick a different name and avatar representation for his character because he's hurting your game experience? I'd love to see you do that.
Give me a break, troll. One system allows for more freedom while the other one does not. Last I checked people interested in sandbox games were complaining that themepark games lacked freedom, then you turn around and start slinging insults when people agree with a more free-flowing class system?
Hypocrisy at it's best, it seems. But I've come to expect that from your posts.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
Exactly, this happens all the time even without a free-flowing class system. A person gets bored with their class and decides they want to make a new character to become their main. People come and go from guilds, people change classes via alts, or change specs to try a new play style, etc etc and adjustments to the raid roster have to be made. It's just the nature of these games.
A system like the one being talked about here wouldn't have an effect on guild raiding any more than people creating alts does.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL