I am very concerned about this crop of gamers from the "I want it now" generation. What happens in RL when you can't do everything, or buy your way through it?
Because...you know obviously we all expect real life and video games to be exactly the same. God forbid I ask a video game to be a little less like work than my actual job is. lol
Based on your reasoning, going to the movie theater should only give you access to working towards seeing the movie. Because getting the movie right away, or "buying" you way into the theater would be too easy. Damn "I want it now" generation! Back in my day we had to build the theater every time we watched a movie!
Actually, in my analogy I was suggesting characters learn whatever skills they want to. They customize those skills by dialing in the power of them (skill 1-100). When they reach a total skill cap, they can lower a skill to gain skill in something new.
What you are suggesting with your analogy is that in a SANDBOX title we would have to rebuild a building every time we wanted to visit the building. You only need to build the building once, unless it's destroyed by siege or other means.
With my system of character development I am not talking about taking 40 hours to change a skill, but more like a few hours of using the new skill to have the skill raised to the point of being effective. If you want to raise that new skill all the way to 100, that's where the extra time takes, since you are basically becoming an expert and master of said skill at respective skill values of skill 80 and 90 and finally a grandmaster of the skill at skill level 100.
If you read my earlier post you will see how it works. It's very customizable, far beyond the current style of choose X class and then pay the Y class master a small fee to switch back and forth.
Something else not touched on here is the fact that EQ franchise has Gods and factions/alignment. This should somehow link into your avatar skill choices. If you choose to be a shadow knight then you should have either an evil god or chaotic god. Whatever you put more skill points into becomes your in game tag and sets your alignment.
I am very concerned about this crop of gamers from the "I want it now" generation. What happens in RL when you can't do everything, or buy your way through it?
Because...you know obviously we all expect real life and video games to be exactly the same. God forbid I ask a video game to be a little less like work than my actual job is. lol
Based on your reasoning, going to the movie theater should only give you access to working towards seeing the movie. Because getting the movie right away, or "buying" you way into the theater would be too easy. Damn "I want it now" generation! Back in my day we had to build the theater every time we watched a movie!
How about we swap your reasoning around in your favor and just have everything in the game instantly rewarded to you and take absolutely no work or effort. This would be so convenient and relaxing, just how video games should be.
Obviously this would result in serious balancing issues, and the game would need a dedicated team to resolve it in a timely manner whenever there is an overpowered mix of classes.
This was very common in Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU), there was endless crying on forums but at the end that game was so unique and interesting in so many ways that many people (including me) decided to go with the flow and accepted that balancing may never come.
You should be able to level whatever class skills you want to.
This should only be limited to a point cap.
The player can use skills to raise skill level to it's own cap "say 100 skill in sow"
This will take up a large chunk of points and take away points from other possible skills.
You should be able to lock skills once you get them where you want to.
This way you can be very good at very specific things.
You should also be able to turn a skill down.
This way once you reach total skill cap you can still switch skills whenever you want simply by getting the new skill and then using it to gain levels in that skill which would automatically take points from the skills you marked to lower.
This allows one character to live many lives similar to RL. how we may go through a few different jobs and hobbies over our lifetimes.
I know this isn't exactly the correct thread for this but, what is your opinion on first-person view/combat? I've seen you post about about Mortal Online, which I think had great ideas. If EQN is anything like MO and can expand on what they were going for, that would seriously be my dream MMO
I realy dig open class systems, i always had many alts across the server and i always changed class if one played to mucha nd grew bored of it. As long as you dont have to do all the same quests in the same zones iam all for it !
I am very concerned about this crop of gamers from the "I want it now" generation. What happens in RL when you can't do everything, or buy your way through it?
Because...you know obviously we all expect real life and video games to be exactly the same. God forbid I ask a video game to be a little less like work than my actual job is. lol
Based on your reasoning, going to the movie theater should only give you access to working towards seeing the movie. Because getting the movie right away, or "buying" you way into the theater would be too easy. Damn "I want it now" generation! Back in my day we had to build the theater every time we watched a movie!
LOL. Spot on. Some people forget what games are about.
For many people their chosen RPG is their hobby. I have played guitar for 24 years. I will never be as good as Steve Vai or Joe Satriani unless I practice 8 - 10 hours a day like they do. But I am happy with 2 - 4 hours day, playing my favorite songs.
I contend that an RPG should strive to have that depth. Pro, hobby and casual. This is what has made DND so great.
Sure there are people that scoff at Steve and Joe practicing 10 hours a day and they dont believe it they think it is some miracle god given talent and many professionals hide behind such claims because they do not want to be criticised for actually practicing that much. Some, like George Lynch, claim to not even know theory. It is all part of a bigger picture of the US where academics is frowned upon. It is replete throughout all of our society and all endeavours.
I am very concerned about this crop of gamers from the "I want it now" generation. What happens in RL when you can't do everything, or buy your way through it?
Because...you know obviously we all expect real life and video games to be exactly the same. God forbid I ask a video game to be a little less like work than my actual job is. lol
Based on your reasoning, going to the movie theater should only give you access to working towards seeing the movie. Because getting the movie right away, or "buying" you way into the theater would be too easy. Damn "I want it now" generation! Back in my day we had to build the theater every time we watched a movie!
How about we swap your reasoning around in your favor and just have everything in the game instantly rewarded to you and take absolutely no work or effort. This would be so convenient and relaxing, just how video games should be.
The only problem is - it wouldn't even be a game
I agree. Not wanting a game to feel like work is fine, but there are obviously different degrees of this. I will have no fun if I feel like the game is too easy and everything is handed out.
Obviously this would result in serious balancing issues, and the game would need a dedicated team to resolve it in a timely manner whenever there is an overpowered mix of classes.
This was very common in Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU), there was endless crying on forums but at the end that game was so unique and interesting in so many ways that many people (including me) decided to go with the flow and accepted that balancing may never come.
It would only cause balance problems if the class skills mixed (Cleric heals + Warrior Tank + Rogue DPS). If there are set classes, and you can just switch between them (in town, or with a SC purchase, or using a long cooldown out of combat skill, etc) it wouldn't have any effect on the balance of the game.
Using a movie as an example is the perfect unintentional reason why there's such a huge divide in MMOs. Some want to act like Video Games are a movie with little challenge and scripted events for you to experience. They justify this because they don't have time? time for what? It's the expectation of reaching a goal with little effort. That instant gratification is what they want. It had nothing to do with time. It has everything to do when they achieve it. MMOs. shouldn't be a race.
Meanwhile, others want Video Games to be like a sport. Where there's actually satisfaction of accomplishment. Like in sports. Does it really mean much in real life? Not so much, but the crux of Video Games has always been about challenge. This virtual movie crap has its place, but not in MMOs. Its unsustainable.
Originally posted by jdnyc Using a movie as an example is the perfect unintentional reason why there's such a huge divide in MMOs. Some want to act like Video Games are a movie with little challenge and scripted events for you to experience. They justify this because they don't have time? time for what? It's the expectation of reaching a goal with little effort. That instant gratification is what they want. It had nothing to do with time. It has everything to do when they achieve it. MMOs. shouldn't be a race.
Meanwhile, others want Video Games to be like a sport. Where there's actually satisfaction of accomplishment. Like in sports. Does it really mean much in real life? Not so much, but the crux of Video Games has always been about challenge. This virtual movie crap has its place, but not in MMOs. Its unsustainable.
I agree with you, because I'm a hardcore* gamer. I love the challenge and all that good stuff, but I think you might be slightly confused.
There's a difference between difficulty and tedious. Killing 100000 rats to gain 1 level is not "challenging", it's tedious. Spending 5 hours to walk from point A to point B is not "challenging", it's tedious (It can be challenging, but the length of the travel does not automatically = challenging).
A game designer needs to "Find the fun". Pressing a single button and "beating the game" would be the worst game ever. But a game that requires you to get 435748975847584 headshots on zombies walking at you in a hallway to win would also be a bad game. There has to be a balance between time/risk/reward/effort.
The key is the right balance.
As for "Unsustainable". WoW is one of the easiest MMORPGs ever invented. It caters to casual players and is extremely easy to do everything in the game, but it's also one of the most popular, highest grossing games ever made and has been printing money since 2004, still going on today with no end in sight.
Call of Duty has also been printing money for a long time now, and it too caters to casual players, with easy movie like experiences and casual friendly multiplayer.
I dislike WoW and CoD (personal tastes), but I thought your comment about "easy not being sustainable" was kinda funny. From a money making standpoint, those kinds of games are extremely sustainable lol.
Maybe you meant not able to keep your attention. In that case, I agree. Me too.
What I mean by unsustainable is that you have a huge spike of users at launch and then massive drop off a month out. WoW is unique case. Mainly because the game is more about social networking with an install base. The game didn't start that way. The game used to have challenge and it actually took a bit of effort to reach max level during Vanilla. The point is many gamers point to what WoW is now and says why can't we have that if every new game? That's not sustainable because you would need years upon years of content created. On top of that everyone knows how those games work because they've been there, done that before with only slight variations. This means no figuring things out and blowing through content. This is why EQN is going a different direction.
Originally posted by jdnyc What I mean by unsustainable is that you have a huge spike of users at launch and then massive drop off a month out. WoW is unique case. Mainly because the game is more about social networking with an install base. The game didn't start that way. The game used to have challenge and it actually took a bit of effort to reach max level during Vanilla. The point is many gamers point to what WoW is now and says why can't we have that if every new game? That's not sustainable because you would need years upon years of content created. On top of that everyone knows how those games work because they've been there, done that before with only slight variations. This means no figuring things out and blowing through content. This is why EQN is going a different direction.
WoW didn't come in flavors. It's always been the way it is. The challenge was in people's heads, but it was never there.
One of the first criticisms I can remember, right from the week it launched, was EQ and UO players complaining about how easy mode the game is. And I agree. Vanilla wow, today wow, WOTLK wow, chocolate wow. All easy mode, catering to casual players.
But I hope it doesn't sound like I'm knocking casual players or their taste in games. We all like what we like, but lets not kid ourselves and pretend like WoW, day 1 launch, 3 years ago, or today, was ever "hard".
The content comparison also doesn't make sense in this context because the amount of content is different from the difficulty of content. You were commenting on the ease of games, not the size of them.
EQN is going in a different direction the style* of game play. We don't have any idea how difficult the content will be, if it will be a FFA PVP game, a fully PVE game, a great mix of both, we don't know anything yet.
To assume EQN is going to be catering to some level of difficulty because it's stated it's going to be trying a sandbox approach is nothing more than unfounded speculation.
I hope it's the most hardcore game in the universe personally. I hope that when you die to mobs, they rip off all your gear and run to the 4 corners of the earth with it in their inventory and if they're killed by another player, that player will loot your gear. I hope that players will be able to walk up to you in town and backstab you, take all your loot and hide in the shadows. I hope that even the easiest PVE orc npc is so hard to fight solo that you barely live every time if you play perfectly and if you die you lose a whole skill level or whatever.
but I wouldn't dare to presume it's going to be anything like this, since the majority of the MMORPG player base paying the bills would not stand for it. The game has to make money, not cater specifically to a niche group of hardcores.
Because ultimately this is a role playing game and you should be able to play the role that you want to play.
You can just as easily say this:
Because ultimately this is a role playing game and you should play the role you chose to play.
I will have a much harder time associating a person with their role if they are allowed to switch it every minute like in Rift.
If this is how EQN decides to do their classes, then you can count me right out. I hate Rifts class system with a passion.
Don't lie. You'll be begging to get into the Beta and you'll be playing EQN as soon as it launches and you won't be putting it down until the next major sandbox MMORPG launches.
Point A being Qeynos and being 5 hours away from point B Freeport is only tedious if you ignore the ENTIRE WORLD between the two and your only goal is to get from A to B.
Leveling 1 - 50 is tedious if getting to 50 ASAP is the goal and all of the quests, dungeons and rest of the world is ignored in order to get to max level.
THAT is the problem we see now. I am level 90. Now what? I am at Freeport. Now what?
We do not need to force players to group or to interact. We need to give them a reason an incentive. Here is a great TED talk about crowd funding and how no one is forced to pay for anything they simply do it because they want to.
What if we made it so people wanted to group? Sure there are many ways but are we really forcing players to group when mobs are too difficult to solo? Are we forcing people to group when a raid needs a main tank and healers and maybe an enchanter to cc and DPS? It really does come down to this. And it is not a matter of degrees it is a matter of "Vision" of game design and of the developer's sticking with that design choice in the face of all of the whiners.
EVE is constantly flooded with whine posts and I quit posts but as developers they have not budged on core tenants of their game's design. When you get a game like WoW where they nerf and buff classes based on the forums troll's complaints you get a community that rolls flavor of the month and disposable characters and zero identity and no reason to log in when you get bored.
Point A being Qeynos and being 5 hours away from point B Freeport is only tedious if you ignore the ENTIRE WORLD between the two and your only goal is to get from A to B.
Correction, 5 hours to Freeport from Qeynos is tedious if they make the world you're traveling through, and the act of traveling itself boring and useless.
There are ways to make traveling a meaningful part of the game play experience, but simply throwing together a world and requiring day long travel times is not doing anything but adding a tedious time sink.
You completely missed my point about there being a world between the two. Classic verbage of life is a journey not a destination is what I was aiming for, sorry if I was too obtuse;)
Originally posted by dejoblue You completely missed my point about there being a world between the two. Classic verbage of life is a journey not a destination is what I was aiming for, sorry if I was too obtuse;)
Just having a world isn't enough.
The thing that makes Traveling around in games like Skyrim so fun is because things happen. Dragons attack, you get stopped by a band of vampires, you asked for help and lead into an ambush. The world is alive and worth exploring, the travel is a part of the experience, not a barrier between experiences.
You might very well have been thinking of this, but the way you said it sounded like just having land masses to play on makes travel worth while. It doesn't.
I am very concerned about this crop of gamers from the "I want it now" generation. What happens in RL when you can't do everything, or buy your way through it?
-dumber stuff
-dumb stuff
For many people their chosen RPG is their hobby. I have played guitar for 24 years. I will never be as good as Steve Vai or Joe Satriani unless I practice 8 - 10 hours a day like they do. But I am happy with 2 - 4 hours day, playing my favorite songs.
I contend that an RPG should strive to have that depth. Pro, hobby and casual. This is what has made DND so great.
Sure there are people that scoff at Steve and Joe practicing 10 hours a day and they dont believe it they think it is some miracle god given talent and many professionals hide behind such claims because they do not want to be criticised for actually practicing that much. Some, like George Lynch, claim to not even know theory. It is all part of a bigger picture of the US where academics is frowned upon. It is replete throughout all of our society and all endeavours.
You redeemed yourself in this post, even though I still think your idea of playing class transformers only breaks the good systems DND introduced to MMOs (EQ1) and serves to trivialize the genre and remove that depth which you speak of.
Comments
Actually, in my analogy I was suggesting characters learn whatever skills they want to. They customize those skills by dialing in the power of them (skill 1-100). When they reach a total skill cap, they can lower a skill to gain skill in something new.
What you are suggesting with your analogy is that in a SANDBOX title we would have to rebuild a building every time we wanted to visit the building. You only need to build the building once, unless it's destroyed by siege or other means.
With my system of character development I am not talking about taking 40 hours to change a skill, but more like a few hours of using the new skill to have the skill raised to the point of being effective. If you want to raise that new skill all the way to 100, that's where the extra time takes, since you are basically becoming an expert and master of said skill at respective skill values of skill 80 and 90 and finally a grandmaster of the skill at skill level 100.
If you read my earlier post you will see how it works. It's very customizable, far beyond the current style of choose X class and then pay the Y class master a small fee to switch back and forth.
Something else not touched on here is the fact that EQ franchise has Gods and factions/alignment. This should somehow link into your avatar skill choices. If you choose to be a shadow knight then you should have either an evil god or chaotic god. Whatever you put more skill points into becomes your in game tag and sets your alignment.
How about we swap your reasoning around in your favor and just have everything in the game instantly rewarded to you and take absolutely no work or effort. This would be so convenient and relaxing, just how video games should be.
The only problem is - it wouldn't even be a game
Obviously this would result in serious balancing issues, and the game would need a dedicated team to resolve it in a timely manner whenever there is an overpowered mix of classes.
This was very common in Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU), there was endless crying on forums but at the end that game was so unique and interesting in so many ways that many people (including me) decided to go with the flow and accepted that balancing may never come.
NEW IDEAS that can refresh the STALE state of MMORPGs
I know this isn't exactly the correct thread for this but, what is your opinion on first-person view/combat? I've seen you post about about Mortal Online, which I think had great ideas. If EQN is anything like MO and can expand on what they were going for, that would seriously be my dream MMO
I realy dig open class systems, i always had many alts across the server and i always changed class if one played to mucha nd grew bored of it.
!
As long as you dont have to do all the same quests in the same zones iam all for it
For many people their chosen RPG is their hobby. I have played guitar for 24 years. I will never be as good as Steve Vai or Joe Satriani unless I practice 8 - 10 hours a day like they do. But I am happy with 2 - 4 hours day, playing my favorite songs.
I contend that an RPG should strive to have that depth. Pro, hobby and casual. This is what has made DND so great.
Sure there are people that scoff at Steve and Joe practicing 10 hours a day and they dont believe it they think it is some miracle god given talent and many professionals hide behind such claims because they do not want to be criticised for actually practicing that much. Some, like George Lynch, claim to not even know theory. It is all part of a bigger picture of the US where academics is frowned upon. It is replete throughout all of our society and all endeavours.
I agree. Not wanting a game to feel like work is fine, but there are obviously different degrees of this. I will have no fun if I feel like the game is too easy and everything is handed out.
It would only cause balance problems if the class skills mixed (Cleric heals + Warrior Tank + Rogue DPS). If there are set classes, and you can just switch between them (in town, or with a SC purchase, or using a long cooldown out of combat skill, etc) it wouldn't have any effect on the balance of the game.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
I'm tired of not being able to have fun features because of balance.
Screw balance. Have stuff be good at what it does and let that be it.
Meanwhile, others want Video Games to be like a sport. Where there's actually satisfaction of accomplishment. Like in sports. Does it really mean much in real life? Not so much, but the crux of Video Games has always been about challenge. This virtual movie crap has its place, but not in MMOs. Its unsustainable.
I agree with you, because I'm a hardcore* gamer. I love the challenge and all that good stuff, but I think you might be slightly confused.
There's a difference between difficulty and tedious. Killing 100000 rats to gain 1 level is not "challenging", it's tedious. Spending 5 hours to walk from point A to point B is not "challenging", it's tedious (It can be challenging, but the length of the travel does not automatically = challenging).
A game designer needs to "Find the fun". Pressing a single button and "beating the game" would be the worst game ever. But a game that requires you to get 435748975847584 headshots on zombies walking at you in a hallway to win would also be a bad game. There has to be a balance between time/risk/reward/effort.
The key is the right balance.
As for "Unsustainable". WoW is one of the easiest MMORPGs ever invented. It caters to casual players and is extremely easy to do everything in the game, but it's also one of the most popular, highest grossing games ever made and has been printing money since 2004, still going on today with no end in sight.
Call of Duty has also been printing money for a long time now, and it too caters to casual players, with easy movie like experiences and casual friendly multiplayer.
I dislike WoW and CoD (personal tastes), but I thought your comment about "easy not being sustainable" was kinda funny. From a money making standpoint, those kinds of games are extremely sustainable lol.
Maybe you meant not able to keep your attention. In that case, I agree. Me too.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
WoW didn't come in flavors. It's always been the way it is. The challenge was in people's heads, but it was never there.
One of the first criticisms I can remember, right from the week it launched, was EQ and UO players complaining about how easy mode the game is. And I agree. Vanilla wow, today wow, WOTLK wow, chocolate wow. All easy mode, catering to casual players.
But I hope it doesn't sound like I'm knocking casual players or their taste in games. We all like what we like, but lets not kid ourselves and pretend like WoW, day 1 launch, 3 years ago, or today, was ever "hard".
The content comparison also doesn't make sense in this context because the amount of content is different from the difficulty of content. You were commenting on the ease of games, not the size of them.
EQN is going in a different direction the style* of game play. We don't have any idea how difficult the content will be, if it will be a FFA PVP game, a fully PVE game, a great mix of both, we don't know anything yet.
To assume EQN is going to be catering to some level of difficulty because it's stated it's going to be trying a sandbox approach is nothing more than unfounded speculation.
I hope it's the most hardcore game in the universe personally. I hope that when you die to mobs, they rip off all your gear and run to the 4 corners of the earth with it in their inventory and if they're killed by another player, that player will loot your gear. I hope that players will be able to walk up to you in town and backstab you, take all your loot and hide in the shadows. I hope that even the easiest PVE orc npc is so hard to fight solo that you barely live every time if you play perfectly and if you die you lose a whole skill level or whatever.
but I wouldn't dare to presume it's going to be anything like this, since the majority of the MMORPG player base paying the bills would not stand for it. The game has to make money, not cater specifically to a niche group of hardcores.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
If this is how EQN decides to do their classes, then you can count me right out. I hate Rifts class system with a passion.
Don't lie. You'll be begging to get into the Beta and you'll be playing EQN as soon as it launches and you won't be putting it down until the next major sandbox MMORPG launches.
Don't even lie lol.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
Point A being Qeynos and being 5 hours away from point B Freeport is only tedious if you ignore the ENTIRE WORLD between the two and your only goal is to get from A to B.
Leveling 1 - 50 is tedious if getting to 50 ASAP is the goal and all of the quests, dungeons and rest of the world is ignored in order to get to max level.
THAT is the problem we see now. I am level 90. Now what? I am at Freeport. Now what?
We do not need to force players to group or to interact. We need to give them a reason an incentive. Here is a great TED talk about crowd funding and how no one is forced to pay for anything they simply do it because they want to.
http://www.ted.com/talks/amanda_palmer_the_art_of_asking.html
What if we made it so people wanted to group? Sure there are many ways but are we really forcing players to group when mobs are too difficult to solo? Are we forcing people to group when a raid needs a main tank and healers and maybe an enchanter to cc and DPS? It really does come down to this. And it is not a matter of degrees it is a matter of "Vision" of game design and of the developer's sticking with that design choice in the face of all of the whiners.
EVE is constantly flooded with whine posts and I quit posts but as developers they have not budged on core tenants of their game's design. When you get a game like WoW where they nerf and buff classes based on the forums troll's complaints you get a community that rolls flavor of the month and disposable characters and zero identity and no reason to log in when you get bored.
Correction, 5 hours to Freeport from Qeynos is tedious if they make the world you're traveling through, and the act of traveling itself boring and useless.
There are ways to make traveling a meaningful part of the game play experience, but simply throwing together a world and requiring day long travel times is not doing anything but adding a tedious time sink.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
Just having a world isn't enough.
The thing that makes Traveling around in games like Skyrim so fun is because things happen. Dragons attack, you get stopped by a band of vampires, you asked for help and lead into an ambush. The world is alive and worth exploring, the travel is a part of the experience, not a barrier between experiences.
You might very well have been thinking of this, but the way you said it sounded like just having land masses to play on makes travel worth while. It doesn't.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
Get out of my head.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
I absolutely loathe leveling alts.
Just give me one character within a defined arch type and allow me the flexibility to play different arch type related roles with it.
You redeemed yourself in this post, even though I still think your idea of playing class transformers only breaks the good systems DND introduced to MMOs (EQ1) and serves to trivialize the genre and remove that depth which you speak of.