Originally posted by mgilbrtsn It doesn't matter if they did release their sales. nobody would believe them if they said sales were good. If they said sales were bad, everyone would believe. They can't win either way with this metric.
I doubt they can publicly lie about their sales.
You don't have to lie, you just have to be misleading.
This is one of the most over-used tactics from almost every mmo. In other words you don't give out subscriber numbers, you give out registered accounts.
An old tactic is also that you ban RMT once every 1 or 2 months while not tackling them or stopping their bots and money making tacts in between those bans to make it profitable. This ensures the RMT will make a nice profit and buy lots of copies again after each ban wave.
Originally posted by mgilbrtsn It doesn't matter if they did release their sales. nobody would believe them if they said sales were good. If they said sales were bad, everyone would believe. They can't win either way with this metric.
I doubt they can publicly lie about their sales.
That wouldn't stop people from disbelieving. I've seen it....sadly
The people who dont believe official numbers, are the minority of gamers who are too insecure about their game of choice to acknowledge other games can co exist and do well.
With that said....if their sales numbers were anything to brag about, you bet your @$$ they would have officially released something...I'm not saying it sold poorly, but its obviously not a bragable figure at this point in time.
And im saying it here now....if they come out with some "registered accounts" number instead of initial sales or subs, thats another negative indication.
Originally posted by evilized What I'm saying is that digital probably didn't make up 80% of sales. I doubt boxes did either, it's more than likely a good bit closer in the middle.
Here's the entire conversation so we don't get lost. It's best to quote someone when responding to them.
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by evilized
Originally posted by JHenry
Speculations speculations speculations. You guys should trade in the stock market, you might or might not get a profit because of speculations.
Anyways, over the physical copy and digital copy debate, again, this has been a speculation. If you guys remember, Tamriel foundry made a survey with about 4,000 respondents and they have more than 80% of the respondents said they bought the game digitally. I'm not implying anything, I'm just basing off my facts on a survey with a sample size of about 4,000.
EDIT: The survey I'm telling about is on 10:19 mark of the video I linked.
people posting on a niche website over the internet were more apt to buy something digitally? you don't say...
You think ESO sold more physical copies than digital downloads?
Originally posted by evilized I'm just pointing out that the sample set is probably skewed towards digital downloads since the poll was hosted on a forum of a fairly obscure website (if you aren't really into elder scrolls you won't know about tamrielfoundry). It would be the same as setting up a polling station in a gamestop and then saying 95% of all sales were hard copy based on the results.
The only way to know would be for ZoS to release the info themselves and that probably will not happen. If there had been a poll in game or on the cd-key registration site you would have accurate numbers but you can't take a single poll's results and call it fact.
So you don't think ESO sold more physical than digital?
Originally posted by evilized What I'm saying is that digital probably didn't make up 80% of sales. I doubt boxes did either, it's more than likely a good bit closer in the middle.
So 60-80% Digital and 40-20% Physical?
Just trying to get a simple answer from you. Do you believe ESO sold more physical than digital copies?
So when are you going to post any proof of this? So far you just speculate. I have given you proof and then you still ask if there were more digital sales. No. The answer is no there is not more digital sales. Just because you cant get out of your house to buy a game doesnt mean the rest the world is that lazy.
Originally posted by evilized What I'm saying is that digital probably didn't make up 80% of sales. I doubt boxes did either, it's more than likely a good bit closer in the middle.
Here's the entire conversation so we don't get lost. It's best to quote someone when responding to them.
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by evilized
Originally posted by JHenry
Speculations speculations speculations. You guys should trade in the stock market, you might or might not get a profit because of speculations.
Anyways, over the physical copy and digital copy debate, again, this has been a speculation. If you guys remember, Tamriel foundry made a survey with about 4,000 respondents and they have more than 80% of the respondents said they bought the game digitally. I'm not implying anything, I'm just basing off my facts on a survey with a sample size of about 4,000.
EDIT: The survey I'm telling about is on 10:19 mark of the video I linked.
people posting on a niche website over the internet were more apt to buy something digitally? you don't say...
You think ESO sold more physical copies than digital downloads?
Originally posted by evilized I'm just pointing out that the sample set is probably skewed towards digital downloads since the poll was hosted on a forum of a fairly obscure website (if you aren't really into elder scrolls you won't know about tamrielfoundry). It would be the same as setting up a polling station in a gamestop and then saying 95% of all sales were hard copy based on the results.
The only way to know would be for ZoS to release the info themselves and that probably will not happen. If there had been a poll in game or on the cd-key registration site you would have accurate numbers but you can't take a single poll's results and call it fact.
So you don't think ESO sold more physical than digital?
Originally posted by evilized What I'm saying is that digital probably didn't make up 80% of sales. I doubt boxes did either, it's more than likely a good bit closer in the middle.
So 60-80% Digital and 40-20% Physical?
Just trying to get a simple answer from you. Do you believe ESO sold more physical than digital copies?
So when are you going to post any proof of this? So far you just speculate. I have given you proof and then you still ask if there were more digital sales. No. The answer is no there is not more digital sales. Just because you cant get out of your house to buy a game doesnt mean the rest the world is that lazy.
I don't think ANY game sells more physical copies than digital these days. I do not have a single friend in my social circle who has bought a physical copy of a game in at least 5 years. Not a single copy from a game store (PC games, I mean). That is catching up quickly with consoles, but admittedly I buy my console games in disk form still.
Company results say otherwise; ditto GameStop's decision to pull out of digital downloads. Digital is growing - and Steam of course is huge with many games only being available via Steam - which obviously impacts overall market share percentages.
TESO however opted not to use Steam and opted for a combination of direct download + retail. Why? If digital is 80%+ of sales why didn't they just opt for just digital download? Higher profit margin after all. And the answer, if you think about it, is that Zenimax assessed that retail is a) still significant and b) would give the game a big marketing push.
And sure I have bought a number of digital games in the last few years - all on Steam along with some retail boxes from e.g. Amazon because the price was cheaper.
Originally posted by evilized What I'm saying is that digital probably didn't make up 80% of sales. I doubt boxes did either, it's more than likely a good bit closer in the middle.
Here's the entire conversation so we don't get lost. It's best to quote someone when responding to them.
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by evilized
Originally posted by JHenry
Speculations speculations speculations. You guys should trade in the stock market, you might or might not get a profit because of speculations.
Anyways, over the physical copy and digital copy debate, again, this has been a speculation. If you guys remember, Tamriel foundry made a survey with about 4,000 respondents and they have more than 80% of the respondents said they bought the game digitally. I'm not implying anything, I'm just basing off my facts on a survey with a sample size of about 4,000.
EDIT: The survey I'm telling about is on 10:19 mark of the video I linked.
people posting on a niche website over the internet were more apt to buy something digitally? you don't say...
You think ESO sold more physical copies than digital downloads?
Originally posted by evilized I'm just pointing out that the sample set is probably skewed towards digital downloads since the poll was hosted on a forum of a fairly obscure website (if you aren't really into elder scrolls you won't know about tamrielfoundry). It would be the same as setting up a polling station in a gamestop and then saying 95% of all sales were hard copy based on the results.
The only way to know would be for ZoS to release the info themselves and that probably will not happen. If there had been a poll in game or on the cd-key registration site you would have accurate numbers but you can't take a single poll's results and call it fact.
So you don't think ESO sold more physical than digital?
Originally posted by evilized What I'm saying is that digital probably didn't make up 80% of sales. I doubt boxes did either, it's more than likely a good bit closer in the middle.
So 60-80% Digital and 40-20% Physical?
Just trying to get a simple answer from you. Do you believe ESO sold more physical than digital copies?
So when are you going to post any proof of this? So far you just speculate. I have given you proof and then you still ask if there were more digital sales. No. The answer is no there is not more digital sales. Just because you cant get out of your house to buy a game doesnt mean the rest the world is that lazy.
I don't think ANY game sells more physical copies than digital these days. I do not have a single friend in my social circle who has bought a physical copy of a game in at least 5 years. Not a single copy from a game store (PC games, I mean). That is catching up quickly with consoles, but admittedly I buy my console games in disk form still.
Company results say otherwise; ditto GameStop's decision to pull out of digital downloads. Digital is growing - and Steam of course is huge with many games only being available via Steam - which obviously impacts overall market share percentages.
TESO however opted not to use Steam and opted for a combination of direct download + retail. Why? If digital is 80%+ of sales why didn't they just opt for just digital download? Higher profit margin after all. And the answer, if you think about it, is that Zenimax assessed that retail is a) still significant and b) would give the game a big marketing push.
And sure I have bought a number of digital games in the last few years - all on Steam along with some retail boxes from e.g. Amazon because the price was cheaper.
Thats one thing the OP seems to be forgetting....Steam accounts for the VAST majority of "digital downloads" counted in every "study".....unless said game/application is available on Steam, stop linking to articles talking about Steam lol.
I don't think ANY game sells more physical copies than digital these days. I do not have a single friend in my social circle who has bought a physical copy of a game in at least 5 years. Not a single copy from a game store (PC games, I mean). That is catching up quickly with consoles, but admittedly I buy my console games in disk form still.
Company results say otherwise; ditto GameStop's decision to pull out of digital downloads. Digital is growing - and Steam of course is huge with many games only being available via Steam - which obviously impacts overall market share percentages.
TESO however opted not to use Steam and opted for a combination of direct download + retail. Why? If digital is 80%+ of sales why didn't they just opt for just digital download? Higher profit margin after all. And the answer, if you think about it, is that Zenimax assessed that retail is a) still significant and b) would give the game a big marketing push.
And sure I have bought a number of digital games in the last few years - all on Steam along with some retail boxes from e.g. Amazon because the price was cheaper.
Thats one thing the OP seems to be forgetting....Steam accounts for the VAST majority of "digital downloads" counted in every "study".....unless said game/application is available on Steam, stop linking to articles talking about Steam lol.
Well, you think that would be obvious, but anything to try and drive their nonfactual point across I guess.
Originally posted by evilized What I'm saying is that digital probably didn't make up 80% of sales. I doubt boxes did either, it's more than likely a good bit closer in the middle.
Here's the entire conversation so we don't get lost. It's best to quote someone when responding to them.
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by evilized
Originally posted by JHenry
Speculations speculations speculations. You guys should trade in the stock market, you might or might not get a profit because of speculations.
Anyways, over the physical copy and digital copy debate, again, this has been a speculation. If you guys remember, Tamriel foundry made a survey with about 4,000 respondents and they have more than 80% of the respondents said they bought the game digitally. I'm not implying anything, I'm just basing off my facts on a survey with a sample size of about 4,000.
EDIT: The survey I'm telling about is on 10:19 mark of the video I linked.
people posting on a niche website over the internet were more apt to buy something digitally? you don't say...
You think ESO sold more physical copies than digital downloads?
Originally posted by evilized I'm just pointing out that the sample set is probably skewed towards digital downloads since the poll was hosted on a forum of a fairly obscure website (if you aren't really into elder scrolls you won't know about tamrielfoundry). It would be the same as setting up a polling station in a gamestop and then saying 95% of all sales were hard copy based on the results.
The only way to know would be for ZoS to release the info themselves and that probably will not happen. If there had been a poll in game or on the cd-key registration site you would have accurate numbers but you can't take a single poll's results and call it fact.
So you don't think ESO sold more physical than digital?
Originally posted by evilized What I'm saying is that digital probably didn't make up 80% of sales. I doubt boxes did either, it's more than likely a good bit closer in the middle.
So 60-80% Digital and 40-20% Physical?
Just trying to get a simple answer from you. Do you believe ESO sold more physical than digital copies?
So when are you going to post any proof of this? So far you just speculate. I have given you proof and then you still ask if there were more digital sales. No. The answer is no there is not more digital sales. Just because you cant get out of your house to buy a game doesnt mean the rest the world is that lazy.
video game(console) =/= pc game (computer). Welcome to computing in 2014! You can thank me later
So if you look they asked 8k people....Hardly a good test group. They also said sales were down 21% from the last year...Thats a huge difference. Theres your reason why this one year it was any different.
Also lets look at the highest sellers.
1. Steamgames.com
2. Direct2drive.com
3. EA.com
4. Worldofwarcraft.com
5. Blizzard.com
Not on steam, Not on Direct2drive, Not on EA, Not on WOW, not on Blizzard....So you still have 0 proof that they have sold more digital copies. Besides the constant proof I keep giving you.
Are some of you guys actually doubting that in 2014, the overwhelming majority of MMO sales are digital?
Do you really think that this only applies to games on Steam?
Haven't you been to any game store recently and seen the almost non-existent racks for PC games compared to the large number of console game boxes?
Shit... even consoles have been joining the digital distribution trend which is viable now that consoles have much larger HDs.
Last time I bought a physical edition of an MMO was when I bought both EQ2 and WOW back in 2004.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Why on Earth are we arguing numbers when NOBODY has any?!?!?!
Might as well be arguing String Theory.
^This.
I think the fact that we are almost 2 months after launch, and have recieved only crickets from Zenimax, is quite telling in and of itself.
Exactly, and the longer they keep silent on this, the worse the situation must be, its practically an open secret now that the game has tanked hard sales wise.
Are some of you guys actually doubting that in 2014, the overwhelming majority of MMO sales are digital?
Do you really think that this only applies to games on Steam?
Haven't you been to any game store recently and seen the almost non-existent racks for PC games compared to the large number of console game boxes?
Shit... even consoles have been joining the digital distribution trend which is viable now that consoles have much larger HDs.
Last time I bought a physical edition of an MMO was when I bought both EQ2 and WOW back in 2004.
Last time I bought a physical edition of an MMO was the last MMO I bought...Your point really doesnt mean much. I already proved that physical copies are the majority. Just because you make 1 person of the millions of copies sold of a game doesnt mean anything.
Are some of you guys actually doubting that in 2014, the overwhelming majority of MMO sales are digital?
Do you really think that this only applies to games on Steam?
Haven't you been to any game store recently and seen the almost non-existent racks for PC games compared to the large number of console game boxes?
Shit... even consoles have been joining the digital distribution trend which is viable now that consoles have much larger HDs.
Last time I bought a physical edition of an MMO was when I bought both EQ2 and WOW back in 2004.
Last time I bought a physical edition of an MMO was the last MMO I bought...Your point really doesnt mean much. I already proved that physical copies are the majority. Just because you make 1 person of the millions of copies sold of a game doesnt mean anything.
Lol... you "proved" it... your standards are a lot lower than mine... hopefully you're not scientist or doctor in RL
Newsflash...no one in this thread has "proved" anything. At best there are some good guesses and some shitty ones... my guess is that digital vs. physical for MMO sales is 4:1... just like my guess that console game sales is exactly the opposite.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Are some of you guys actually doubting that in 2014, the overwhelming majority of MMO sales are digital?
Do you really think that this only applies to games on Steam?
Haven't you been to any game store recently and seen the almost non-existent racks for PC games compared to the large number of console game boxes?
Shit... even consoles have been joining the digital distribution trend which is viable now that consoles have much larger HDs.
Last time I bought a physical edition of an MMO was when I bought both EQ2 and WOW back in 2004.
Last time I bought a physical edition of an MMO was the last MMO I bought...Your point really doesnt mean much. I already proved that physical copies are the majority. Just because you make 1 person of the millions of copies sold of a game doesnt mean anything.
Lol... you "proved" it... your standards are a lot lower than mine... hopefully you're not scientist or doctor in RL
Newsflash...no one in this thread has "proved" anything. At best there are some good guesses and some shitty ones... my guess is that digital vs. physical for MMO sales is 4:1... just like my guess that console game sales is exactly the opposite.
You can guess all you want or you can look at facts and make a smart conclusion. I rather make a smart conclusion based on facts. Sorry I enjoy using facts to my advantage.
Are some of you guys actually doubting that in 2014, the overwhelming majority of MMO sales are digital?
Do you really think that this only applies to games on Steam?
Haven't you been to any game store recently and seen the almost non-existent racks for PC games compared to the large number of console game boxes?
Shit... even consoles have been joining the digital distribution trend which is viable now that consoles have much larger HDs.
Last time I bought a physical edition of an MMO was when I bought both EQ2 and WOW back in 2004.
Last time I bought a physical edition of an MMO was the last MMO I bought...Your point really doesnt mean much. I already proved that physical copies are the majority. Just because you make 1 person of the millions of copies sold of a game doesnt mean anything.
Lol... you "proved" it... your standards are a lot lower than mine... hopefully you're not scientist or doctor in RL
Newsflash...no one in this thread has "proved" anything. At best there are some good guesses and some shitty ones... my guess is that digital vs. physical for MMO sales is 4:1... just like my guess that console game sales is exactly the opposite.
You can guess all you want or you can look at facts and make a smart conclusion. I rather make a smart conclusion based on facts. Sorry I enjoy using facts to my advantage.
You realize your "proof" in the article in gamespot is about video game sales in general right? Including the much larger console market where the overwhelming majority of sales is physical boxes...you knew that, right?
From your "proof" article: "The NPD Group defines core gamers are those people who play games for at least five hours per week on Xbox 360, Xbox One, PlayStation 3, PlayStation 4, PC, or Mac."
Yes... that would be all the "proof" I need to tell you that cough you have is lung cancer and schedule you for surgery next week
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Why on Earth are we arguing numbers when NOBODY has any?!?!?!
Might as well be arguing String Theory.
agree
i doubt Zenimax will ever give sub #s - good or bad
Trion never did for RIFT, Turbine never did for LOTRO
Privately held companies seldom do. I also doubt we'll ever get any real numbers.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I wouldn't release my sales numbers publicly unless I had to (like Blizzard because they're publicly traded). No good ever comes from releasing sales numbers. You are either called a liar, cheat, or failure...
There's only 1 sales number I care about, that's my copy sold to me. You sheep can go bleat somewhere else
Copies sold numbers by themselves (a la GW2) is a cop out in and of it self when it comes to MMOs to begin with, but not even have bragadotiuos initial sales is even more so alarming.
Comments
You don't have to lie, you just have to be misleading.
This is one of the most over-used tactics from almost every mmo. In other words you don't give out subscriber numbers, you give out registered accounts.
An old tactic is also that you ban RMT once every 1 or 2 months while not tackling them or stopping their bots and money making tacts in between those bans to make it profitable. This ensures the RMT will make a nice profit and buy lots of copies again after each ban wave.
RMT are a wonderful tool to boost sales figures.
The people who dont believe official numbers, are the minority of gamers who are too insecure about their game of choice to acknowledge other games can co exist and do well.
With that said....if their sales numbers were anything to brag about, you bet your @$$ they would have officially released something...I'm not saying it sold poorly, but its obviously not a bragable figure at this point in time.
And im saying it here now....if they come out with some "registered accounts" number instead of initial sales or subs, thats another negative indication.
So when are you going to post any proof of this? So far you just speculate. I have given you proof and then you still ask if there were more digital sales. No. The answer is no there is not more digital sales. Just because you cant get out of your house to buy a game doesnt mean the rest the world is that lazy.
This just in! (Sept. 20, 2010)
PC Full-Game Digital Downloads Surpass Retail Unit Sales
video game(console) =/= pc game (computer). Welcome to computing in 2014! You can thank me later
Company results say otherwise; ditto GameStop's decision to pull out of digital downloads. Digital is growing - and Steam of course is huge with many games only being available via Steam - which obviously impacts overall market share percentages.
TESO however opted not to use Steam and opted for a combination of direct download + retail. Why? If digital is 80%+ of sales why didn't they just opt for just digital download? Higher profit margin after all. And the answer, if you think about it, is that Zenimax assessed that retail is a) still significant and b) would give the game a big marketing push.
And sure I have bought a number of digital games in the last few years - all on Steam along with some retail boxes from e.g. Amazon because the price was cheaper.
Unless ESO is sold on Steam (the main and by far number 1 reason the article you quotes exists), your link is useless LOL
Thats one thing the OP seems to be forgetting....Steam accounts for the VAST majority of "digital downloads" counted in every "study".....unless said game/application is available on Steam, stop linking to articles talking about Steam lol.
Well, you think that would be obvious, but anything to try and drive their nonfactual point across I guess.
So if you look they asked 8k people....Hardly a good test group. They also said sales were down 21% from the last year...Thats a huge difference. Theres your reason why this one year it was any different.
Also lets look at the highest sellers.
Why on Earth are we arguing numbers when NOBODY has any?!?!?!
Might as well be arguing String Theory.
^This.
I think the fact that we are almost 2 months after launch, and have recieved only crickets from Zenimax, is quite telling in and of itself.
Another mmorpg twilight zone argument...
Are some of you guys actually doubting that in 2014, the overwhelming majority of MMO sales are digital?
Do you really think that this only applies to games on Steam?
Haven't you been to any game store recently and seen the almost non-existent racks for PC games compared to the large number of console game boxes?
Shit... even consoles have been joining the digital distribution trend which is viable now that consoles have much larger HDs.
Last time I bought a physical edition of an MMO was when I bought both EQ2 and WOW back in 2004.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Exactly, and the longer they keep silent on this, the worse the situation must be, its practically an open secret now that the game has tanked hard sales wise.
"So if you look they asked 8k people....Hardly a good test group."
I was going to make this gem from Deathsmind my sig.
Last time I bought a physical edition of an MMO was the last MMO I bought...Your point really doesnt mean much. I already proved that physical copies are the majority. Just because you make 1 person of the millions of copies sold of a game doesnt mean anything.
Lol... you "proved" it... your standards are a lot lower than mine... hopefully you're not scientist or doctor in RL
Newsflash...no one in this thread has "proved" anything. At best there are some good guesses and some shitty ones... my guess is that digital vs. physical for MMO sales is 4:1... just like my guess that console game sales is exactly the opposite.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
You can guess all you want or you can look at facts and make a smart conclusion. I rather make a smart conclusion based on facts. Sorry I enjoy using facts to my advantage.
8k people is a sample size large enough to "get results that reflect a target population" of 30m people with 98.66% certainty. This is a fact
You realize your "proof" in the article in gamespot is about video game sales in general right? Including the much larger console market where the overwhelming majority of sales is physical boxes...you knew that, right?
From your "proof" article: "The NPD Group defines core gamers are those people who play games for at least five hours per week on Xbox 360, Xbox One, PlayStation 3, PlayStation 4, PC, or Mac."
Yes... that would be all the "proof" I need to tell you that cough you have is lung cancer and schedule you for surgery next week
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
agree
i doubt Zenimax will ever give sub #s - good or bad
Trion never did for RIFT, Turbine never did for LOTRO
EQ2 fan sites
Privately held companies seldom do. I also doubt we'll ever get any real numbers.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I wouldn't release my sales numbers publicly unless I had to (like Blizzard because they're publicly traded). No good ever comes from releasing sales numbers. You are either called a liar, cheat, or failure...
There's only 1 sales number I care about, that's my copy sold to me. You sheep can go bleat somewhere else
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
No, but they at least announced copies sold.
Copies sold numbers by themselves (a la GW2) is a cop out in and of it self when it comes to MMOs to begin with, but not even have bragadotiuos initial sales is even more so alarming.