1.2 million is low for an IP like Elder Scrolls. I think the reason they are not releasing official figures (and may never do) is because it's way below what they expected. Every time a company goes quiet about this kind of thing there is something wrong. If subscription numbers drop to low and don't improve, they will shut the game down.
ESO didn't have a great start. It had poor reviews and didn't meet the expectations of Elder Scrolls fans. When an MMO starts off with an uphill struggle, history shows it's almost always doomed to fail.
Considering Skyrim sold around 3.5M on PC globally up till now and with boosted numbers from steam sales no doubt.. Then consider that not every ES fan is interested in an MMO and potentially 800K sold the first month pretty good ( assuming 50/50 boxed/digital ). For an MMO that is on the high end actually.
So why would they stop everything when the console release is coming? That is where the bulk of the ES fans are and if just 30% of those fans buy ESO then they are doing really well. Again not every ES fan is interested in an MMO.
what . all the fans are on consoles?
ok...what do your figures say again?
i paid fo rthis im gonna see what happens if i am in dded double nerfed then thats one less possible 20-30 as others i know will say forget it.
And if they sold 2 million copies, what is the incentive for saying something? What number would make the critics of the game say "yup, that's good"?
Any number south of 5 million will be spun as a failure. Why would they release this information? Does the fact that it's people hostile to the game demanding the information act as a clue as to why they gain nothing by saying anything?
2 million would still be an advertising mark.
1 million would be too because for the majority of folks out there, they hear "million" and think - "woah - that's a lot". The actual "forum goer" population is tiny. The majority of the genre likely is going to perceive "1.x million sold" as being successful, especially at just a few weeks since release.
The lack of any of this sales parading speaks volumes to me - especially with a 6 month delay in the console release. Those two things combine together to form, "this game isn't selling well at all" to me.
Actually, yes - you can infer that from the boasting during beta to silence now - that something is amiss.
If ESO sold 5 million copies, you can bet every dollar you own that their marketing department would be running wild with that.
Again you miss the point that, before beta, no one had bought the game. Now, most people have bought it or not bought it, and some news release about sales is not going to change their minds. The marketing situation is entirely different. Back then, the business challenge was to get people to buy the game. Now, a couple months after release, the main challenge is to get people to keep subscribing. I don't know about you, but most people I know make their decision on subscribing to a game based on how much they enjoy the game, not news releases. As if a player thinks the game isn't fun, costs too much, has bad customer service, but hey they see a news release saying ESO sold 4 million copies, and PRESTO! they rush to the computer to do a 6 month sub. LOL
There are so many biases and lack of financial understanding in this thread it serves as little but a reason for the ESO haters to hate some more and act like their biases are fact.
Because no fanboy ever, especially in this thread, has acted with bias. Only the haters.
I didn't say the bias was only on one side. Both sides are biased. But the lack of financial understanding rests mainly on the side of the haters. In any event, the result is haters trying to 'prove' that the game is a failure because ESO hasn't released info they have no real incentive to release. Which is pretty stupid.
And on top of that, even if ESO did release the sales numbers (which again serves little purpose), the haters would still say 'well SWTOR had good sales numbers, what really matters is subs!'. And not just subs now, but subs in a month or two or three, when they are certain the numbers will plummet. What possible reason they think ESO has to play that game is beyond me, like its in ESO's financial self-interest to satisfy your intellectual curiousity?
Actually, yes - you can infer that from the boasting during beta to silence now - that something is amiss.
If ESO sold 5 million copies, you can bet every dollar you own that their marketing department would be running wild with that.
Again you miss the point that, before beta, no one had bought the game. Now, most people have bought it or not bought it, and some news release about sales is not going to change their minds. The marketing situation is entirely different. Back then, the business challenge was to get people to buy the game. Now, a couple months after release, the main challenge is to get people to keep subscribing. I don't know about you, but most people I know make their decision on subscribing to a game based on how much they enjoy the game, not news releases. As if a player thinks the game isn't fun, costs too much, has bad customer service, but hey they see a news release saying ESO sold 4 million copies, and PRESTO! they rush to the computer to do a 6 month sub. LOL
So you think their marketing department magically gives up on making any new box sales after release? Looks like fans really will believe anything.
There are so many biases and lack of financial understanding in this thread it serves as little but a reason for the ESO haters to hate some more and act like their biases are fact.
Because no fanboy ever, especially in this thread, has acted with bias. Only the haters.
I didn't say the bias was only on one side. Both sides are biased. But the lack of financial understanding rests mainly on the side of the haters. In any event, the result is haters trying to 'prove' that the game is a failure because ESO hasn't released info they have no real incentive to release. Which is pretty stupid.
And on top of that, even if ESO did release the sales numbers (which again serves little purpose), the haters would still say 'well SWTOR had good sales numbers, what really matters is subs!'. And not just subs now, but subs in a month or two or three, when they are certain the numbers will plummet. What possible reason they think ESO has to play that game is beyond me, like its in ESO's financial self-interest to satisfy your intellectual curiousity?
Im afraid that whole lack of "financial understanding" topped with lack of "marketing understanding" and even infused with lack of "how MMO churnout functions understanding" resides on your side.
1.2 million is low for an IP like Elder Scrolls. I think the reason they are not releasing official figures (and may never do) is because it's way below what they expected. Every time a company goes quiet about this kind of thing there is something wrong. If subscription numbers drop to low and don't improve, they will shut the game down.
ESO didn't have a great start. It had poor reviews and didn't meet the expectations of Elder Scrolls fans. When an MMO starts off with an uphill struggle, history shows it's almost always doomed to fail.
Considering Skyrim sold around 3.5M on PC globally up till now and with boosted numbers from steam sales no doubt.. Then consider that not every ES fan is interested in an MMO and potentially 800K sold the first month pretty good ( assuming 50/50 boxed/digital ). For an MMO that is on the high end actually.
So why would they stop everything when the console release is coming? That is where the bulk of the ES fans are and if just 30% of those fans buy ESO then they are doing really well. Again not every ES fan is interested in an MMO.
what . all the fans are on consoles?
ok...what do your figures say again?
i paid fo rthis im gonna see what happens if i am in dded double nerfed then thats one less possible 20-30 as others i know will say forget it.
The most recent release of Skyrim had sales of over 13 million copies for consoles... WAY more than PC sales. Yes the majority of ES players are on consoles.
Sorry to burst the fanboy bubble but didn't swtor sell 2 million copies at launch?
Look what happened to that...
My point is you can never judge an MMO's success on it's initial box sales figures or compare it to normal pay for the box FPS or sports games. Most MMO's do tend to sell well at launch but start to hemorrhage money later after people start getting burnt out on content, games like WoW or Eve even are successful because they managed to keep enough players to keep afloat... not from their initial sales.
And if they sold 2 million copies, what is the incentive for saying something? What number would make the critics of the game say "yup, that's good"?
Any number south of 5 million will be spun as a failure. Why would they release this information? Does the fact that it's people hostile to the game demanding the information act as a clue as to why they gain nothing by saying anything?
2 million would still be an advertising mark.
1 million would be too because for the majority of folks out there, they hear "million" and think - "woah - that's a lot". The actual "forum goer" population is tiny. The majority of the genre likely is going to perceive "1.x million sold" as being successful, especially at just a few weeks since release.
The lack of any of this sales parading speaks volumes to me - especially with a 6 month delay in the console release. Those two things combine together to form, "this game isn't selling well at all" to me.
And what if the ZOS hears "we sold 2 million copies" and thinks "well, thats a bad number, lets not advertise it"? All we know is exactly this: "The sales aren't spetacular for ZOS standards". Otherwise it would be on their best interest to advertise that the game sold well, being a private company or not, but how much would actually be the ammount of sales have to be for ZOS deem it worthy to advertise? We don't know.
Trying to speculate the number of sales when we have no information is my definition of insanity. ESO is in the twilight zone, we will never know the truth.
Comments
what . all the fans are on consoles?
ok...what do your figures say again?
i paid fo rthis im gonna see what happens if i am in dded double nerfed then thats one less possible 20-30 as others i know will say forget it.
2 million would still be an advertising mark.
1 million would be too because for the majority of folks out there, they hear "million" and think - "woah - that's a lot". The actual "forum goer" population is tiny. The majority of the genre likely is going to perceive "1.x million sold" as being successful, especially at just a few weeks since release.
The lack of any of this sales parading speaks volumes to me - especially with a 6 month delay in the console release. Those two things combine together to form, "this game isn't selling well at all" to me.
Again you miss the point that, before beta, no one had bought the game. Now, most people have bought it or not bought it, and some news release about sales is not going to change their minds. The marketing situation is entirely different. Back then, the business challenge was to get people to buy the game. Now, a couple months after release, the main challenge is to get people to keep subscribing. I don't know about you, but most people I know make their decision on subscribing to a game based on how much they enjoy the game, not news releases. As if a player thinks the game isn't fun, costs too much, has bad customer service, but hey they see a news release saying ESO sold 4 million copies, and PRESTO! they rush to the computer to do a 6 month sub. LOL
Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC
I didn't say the bias was only on one side. Both sides are biased. But the lack of financial understanding rests mainly on the side of the haters. In any event, the result is haters trying to 'prove' that the game is a failure because ESO hasn't released info they have no real incentive to release. Which is pretty stupid.
And on top of that, even if ESO did release the sales numbers (which again serves little purpose), the haters would still say 'well SWTOR had good sales numbers, what really matters is subs!'. And not just subs now, but subs in a month or two or three, when they are certain the numbers will plummet. What possible reason they think ESO has to play that game is beyond me, like its in ESO's financial self-interest to satisfy your intellectual curiousity?
Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC
So you think their marketing department magically gives up on making any new box sales after release? Looks like fans really will believe anything.
Im afraid that whole lack of "financial understanding" topped with lack of "marketing understanding" and even infused with lack of "how MMO churnout functions understanding" resides on your side.
The most recent release of Skyrim had sales of over 13 million copies for consoles... WAY more than PC sales. Yes the majority of ES players are on consoles.
Sorry to burst the fanboy bubble but didn't swtor sell 2 million copies at launch?
Look what happened to that...
My point is you can never judge an MMO's success on it's initial box sales figures or compare it to normal pay for the box FPS or sports games. Most MMO's do tend to sell well at launch but start to hemorrhage money later after people start getting burnt out on content, games like WoW or Eve even are successful because they managed to keep enough players to keep afloat... not from their initial sales.
And what if the ZOS hears "we sold 2 million copies" and thinks "well, thats a bad number, lets not advertise it"? All we know is exactly this: "The sales aren't spetacular for ZOS standards". Otherwise it would be on their best interest to advertise that the game sold well, being a private company or not, but how much would actually be the ammount of sales have to be for ZOS deem it worthy to advertise? We don't know.
Trying to speculate the number of sales when we have no information is my definition of insanity. ESO is in the twilight zone, we will never know the truth.