I usually just lurk on here but wanted to comment on this. I've only been playing MMO's for the last 2 years or so but started gaming in the 80's.
I can only think of one recent MMO I've played with no "fast travel" and I enjoyed it because of the danger associated with the journey. When I play Fallout or Skyrim I never use the fast travel system just for my own immersion.
I had an idea in my head of what MMO's were before ever playing them and I was surprised when I started by the lack of immersion and danger in most of them.
I never played EQ, UO or SWG or all of the other "older" games that a lot of people refer to so my idea of what any current MMO's would be or should be currently wasn't influenced by any prior games. I do seem to agree with most of the fans of these older games as far as what would make a good MMO imo.
When OP started this thread I don't believe he wanted the whole industry to change to his personal taste. Probably like me and just wants those immersion rules somewhere in some quality game. Just like everything else in life one man's trash is another man's treasure but it seems the problem is there is only one option now for all MMOs. I've tried most all active MMOs and they mostly feel like the same game with a different skin. I was hoping for a lot more options because I stopped playing FPS games for the same reason.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Travel is an aspect of a virtual world, and like most things, if you look at it in isolation it means little. in an RPG we travel to get somewhere. The obvious other end of the spectrum is no traveling, and so you end up with hubs and lobbies.
Hubs and lobbies work for me. Virtual world is not important to me. Fun is. Boring travel needs not be in my games. Even Skyrim & Fallout 3 have fast travel.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Travel is an aspect of a virtual world, and like most things, if you look at it in isolation it means little. in an RPG we travel to get somewhere. The obvious other end of the spectrum is no traveling, and so you end up with hubs and lobbies.
Hubs and lobbies work for me. Virtual world is not important to me. Fun is. Boring travel needs not be in my games. Even Skyrim & Fallout 3 have fast travel.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Travel is an aspect of a virtual world, and like most things, if you look at it in isolation it means little. in an RPG we travel to get somewhere. The obvious other end of the spectrum is no traveling, and so you end up with hubs and lobbies.
Hubs and lobbies work for me. Virtual world is not important to me. Fun is. Boring travel needs not be in my games. Even Skyrim & Fallout 3 have fast travel.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
The view on travel is very idealized. Even if something could happen the chances of something interesting happening is very low; so by and large, travel feels like a commute. It is a chore and an inconvenience most of the time. That is the reality.
Fast travel is not an obstacle for immersion. You're just looking for excuses if you think so.
Travel is an aspect of the virtual role playing world, and as i said earlier if you look at it in isolation as with most things then you don't see its value within a bigger system. This is an old old debate done to death, it boils down to those who enjoy travelling in the virtual world to get somewhere and those who don't get it. At one end of the spectrum you have slow travel, on the other you have hubs and lobbies.
What you don't get is that slow travel is not required for immersion.
I don't mind hubs or lobbies.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
The view on travel is very idealized. Even if something could happen the chances of something interesting happening is very low; so by and large, travel feels like a commute. It is a chore and an inconvenience most of the time. That is the reality.
Fast travel is not an obstacle for immersion. You're just looking for excuses if you think so.
Travel is an aspect of the virtual role playing world, and as i said earlier if you look at it in isolation as with most things then you don't see its value within a bigger system. This is an old old debate done to death, it boils down to those who enjoy travelling in the virtual world to get somewhere and those who don't get it. At one end of the spectrum you have slow travel, on the other you have hubs and lobbies.
What you don't get is that slow travel is not required for immersion.
I don't mind hubs or lobbies.
No, what you dont get is that immersion is subjective. Maybe he needs slow travel to feel immersed but not you, same I as could like dark nights or any feature to feel immersed.
And yup for me the lack of travelling does impact my ability to immerse in a virtual world. The argument that slow travel is 'needed' for immersion is a straw man, ofc slow travel is not needed for immersion, however it can be a contributing factor for some - especially with games that try to represent large open worlds.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom Travel is an aspect of a virtual world, and like most things, if you look at it in isolation it means little. in an RPG we travel to get somewhere. The obvious other end of the spectrum is no traveling, and so you end up with hubs and lobbies.
Hubs and lobbies work for me. Virtual world is not important to me. Fun is. Boring travel needs not be in my games. Even Skyrim & Fallout 3 have fast travel.
Yeah we know this already. Moving on...
and we know many want slow travel already, what is your point?
Originally posted by Bladestrom Exactly so . One man likes travelling in a game but hates lobbies, another man likes the opposite. Neither are mistaken.
Pretty much this. And the free market decides what features devs want to put into their games.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Travel is an aspect of a virtual world, and like most things, if you look at it in isolation it means little. in an RPG we travel to get somewhere. The obvious other end of the spectrum is no traveling, and so you end up with hubs and lobbies.
Hubs and lobbies work for me. Virtual world is not important to me. Fun is. Boring travel needs not be in my games. Even Skyrim & Fallout 3 have fast travel.
Yeah we know this already. Moving on...
and we know many want slow travel already, what is your point?
When you have so many random people saying the exact same thing to you over the course of years, one would think you'd eventually figure out who the common denominator is...
Impressive.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
When you have so many random people saying the exact same thing to you over the course of years, one would think you'd eventually figure out who the common denominator is...
Impressive.
That some do not tolerate a difference in opinion, and that they have a double standard .. mainly in that they can repeat the same argument again, and again, but if someone else is doing it, it is "flogging a dead horse"?
Its more you are arguing a moot point, single player mmos are more popular than community orientated MMO and the latter is niche, many MMO player like both, you don't like the latter, you don't need to prove all of this, it's fact.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom Its more you are arguing a moot point, single player mmos are more popular than community orientated MMO and the latter is niche, many MMO player like both, you don't like the latter, you don't need to prove all of this, it's fact.
is it as moot as the fact that some players here are ranting about the lack of slow travel frequently?
Originally posted by Bladestrom Its more you are arguing a moot point, single player mmos are more popular than community orientated MMO and the latter is niche, many MMO player like both, you don't like the latter, you don't need to prove all of this, it's fact.
Exactly.
This guy thinks only in absolutes to such a degree that he his blind to reality. The MMOs I play are very much community driven, yet if I want to "have a solo evening" I can.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
The only mmo I ever enjoyed travel in was Asheron's Call. The levels in the game weren't as meaningful as they are in most mmos, as they served to deliver skill points and act as a general guide to your relative power. However, the world was very much set up for exploration, and the random loot system made exploring rewarding as well.
I remember getting set up in Holtburg, grabbing health kits making stam pots and bread, making sure I had plenty of mana stones and the few spell comps I needed for item magic and then just headed north and kept wandering for as long as I could. In my wanderings I would find lifestones to bind to, random vendors out in the wild to sell of excess loot to, random little dungeons all over the place to explore. It was a really neat experience.
However, that type of system only works in that type of a game. AC was more or less an endless leveling game. Even when you hit max level you're not done progressing your character. The random loot system along with the tinkering system means that finding awesome loot is a driving force for just regular play. Grinding out certain mobs for certain items helped to set both short and long term goals. The overall lack of a raiding endgame also meant that everyday PvE was more or less the endgame.
In your typical mmo, travel is basically only a means to get you from zone to zone and then the major gameplay is progressing through the zone via quests. Longer travel while in the zone doesn't make the gameplay more fun, it makes it more tedious.
Too often when we have these types of discussions the "why" behind things gets lost. Gameplay mechanics need to serve an actual purpose and not just randomly add tedium. Travel in Asheron's Call might have been super tedious if it wasn't for the fact that there was a good random loot system and reasons to explore. There was also ways to bypass longer traveling via magic and portals around the world. However, if you added long travel to a game like WoW...that just adds frustration since it would add basically nothing to the game aside from frustration. As it stands, WoW zones have been designed with a certain questing flow in mind. GW2 is a prime example of a game where the exploration is more or less fun once and then never again, since the exploration in the game is static and the loot system is atrocious. "Exploration" in GW2 is mostly about checking off items on a list until you hit 100% explored. That's sort of fun the first time, but it's a freaking chore any time after. Sadly, GW2 is a world where exploration could've been something really cool, but ANet really cocked it up by making the world far too static.
It isn't about the travel. Travel itself does not contribute to immersion, challenge, grouping or anything else.
It's about what happens while your travelling. Are there interesting mobs/sights? yes travel can be interesting. No. Travel is boring.
What's the purpose of travel? Just to get from A to B? long travel is a pain then. To explore? Long travel can be very interesting.
In most games unfortunately travel is just get from A to B with nothing else and virtually no interesting mobs/sights to see. In that case get rid of long travel.
Travel can aid with immersion and can give the feeling you are in a world. Sitting in a town queued for instances/arena doesn't feel like that. I don't see it as bad design. It is more of a choice of MMORPG as world vs MMORPG as an arcade game. I want to have travel and world not arcade game.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Originally posted by Bladestrom Exactly so . One man likes travelling in a game but hates lobbies, another man likes the opposite. Neither are mistaken.
Pretty much this. And the free market decides what features devs want to put into their games.
Plus the lobby system is a lot cheaper to produce.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Originally posted by Bladestrom Travel is an aspect of a virtual world, and like most things, if you look at it in isolation it means little. in an RPG we travel to get somewhere. The obvious other end of the spectrum is no traveling, and so you end up with hubs and lobbies.
Hubs and lobbies work for me. Virtual world is not important to me. Fun is. Boring travel needs not be in my games. Even Skyrim & Fallout 3 have fast travel.
Yeah we know this already. Moving on...
and we know many want slow travel already, what is your point?
Ah so theres "many" ppl that want this now, I thought nobody wanted this type of features thats why the market is choosing lobby games against it??? Or maybe you mean that this is a untapped market which hasnt been discovered by the risk adverse developers of today....
Originally posted by Bladestrom Its more you are arguing a moot point, single player mmos are more popular than community orientated MMO and the latter is niche, many MMO player like both, you don't like the latter, you don't need to prove all of this, it's fact.
is it as moot as the fact that some players here are ranting about the lack of slow travel frequently?
Its a moot point because its moot, no-one disagrees with the idea that single player mmo are more popular than community based games. within the context of this thread it is a false dilemma/red herring that you are injecting into a discussion about the relationship between immersion and travel.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Depends on the game, some games benefit from long travel times and some do not. TOR to me is an example of excessive travel, it impacts the flow of the point of the game (story). SWG was something else entirely, where the long travel could be relaxing in between hectic PVP battles, or long drawn out hunting trips. Again depends on the game and it's core mechanics.
As for danger making for better travel.. to many it becomes nothing but frustration. AGain depends on the game... Dark souls vs Skyrim...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For those that consider slow travel a waste of time, take MMO out of the equation and consider the following:
RPG
Skyrim is designed to enhance the exploration experience through huge atmospheric beautiful landscapes, where things can only be found through slow travel. Then on top of that people have also developed mods specifically to remove fast travel to enhance immersion.
Single player exploration games! Enough said, we have a whole genre dedicated to slow travel. for example see The Long Dark or The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, Lifeless Planet, Myst games, not to mention the award winning Dear Esther.
Slow travel is not only relevant to Immersion, it is used in many different gaming Genres, and is almost always a core element of games that are focused on immersive game play.
lol in fact Steam has a filter called 'walking simulator'
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
For those that consider slow travel a waste of time, take MMO out of the equation and consider the following:
RPG
Skyrim is designed to enhance the exploration experience through huge atmospheric beautiful landscapes, where things can only be found through slow travel. Then on top of that people have also developed mods specifically to remove fast travel to enhance immersion.
Single player exploration games! Enough said, we have a whole genre dedicated to slow travel. for Example see the long dark.
Slow travel is not only relevant to Immersion, it is used in many different gaming Genres.
I never understood the idea of mods that remove fast travel, I always saved myself the time and just didn't use it if I was in an explorer mood.
Anyway, world travel can heighten immersion, but I have never found it to be the main provider of immersion in TES games. Many other factors come before it, like choice, excellent character building, great atmosphere/artificial life.. Etc.. The same types of qualities that made something like NWN2 or KOTOR so addictive for me. Where exploration was pretty much nonexistent. I'm still hard pressed to find games that connected me so well to the world I was in like KOTOR or NWN, and exploration had no real part in it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think that's the point that was lost from the beginning of this thread, travelling can contribute to immersion, but ofc if Is not the only factor. Travel in a poorly immersive game is unlikely to be immersive.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Comments
I usually just lurk on here but wanted to comment on this. I've only been playing MMO's for the last 2 years or so but started gaming in the 80's.
I can only think of one recent MMO I've played with no "fast travel" and I enjoyed it because of the danger associated with the journey. When I play Fallout or Skyrim I never use the fast travel system just for my own immersion.
I had an idea in my head of what MMO's were before ever playing them and I was surprised when I started by the lack of immersion and danger in most of them.
I never played EQ, UO or SWG or all of the other "older" games that a lot of people refer to so my idea of what any current MMO's would be or should be currently wasn't influenced by any prior games. I do seem to agree with most of the fans of these older games as far as what would make a good MMO imo.
When OP started this thread I don't believe he wanted the whole industry to change to his personal taste. Probably like me and just wants those immersion rules somewhere in some quality game. Just like everything else in life one man's trash is another man's treasure but it seems the problem is there is only one option now for all MMOs. I've tried most all active MMOs and they mostly feel like the same game with a different skin. I was hoping for a lot more options because I stopped playing FPS games for the same reason.
Thanks COD and WOW
Hubs and lobbies work for me. Virtual world is not important to me. Fun is. Boring travel needs not be in my games. Even Skyrim & Fallout 3 have fast travel.
Yeah we know this already. Moving on...
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
What you don't get is that slow travel is not required for immersion.
I don't mind hubs or lobbies.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
No, what you dont get is that immersion is subjective. Maybe he needs slow travel to feel immersed but not you, same I as could like dark nights or any feature to feel immersed.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
and we know many want slow travel already, what is your point?
Pretty much this. And the free market decides what features devs want to put into their games.
When you have so many random people saying the exact same thing to you over the course of years, one would think you'd eventually figure out who the common denominator is...
Impressive.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
That some do not tolerate a difference in opinion, and that they have a double standard .. mainly in that they can repeat the same argument again, and again, but if someone else is doing it, it is "flogging a dead horse"?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
is it as moot as the fact that some players here are ranting about the lack of slow travel frequently?
Exactly.
This guy thinks only in absolutes to such a degree that he his blind to reality. The MMOs I play are very much community driven, yet if I want to "have a solo evening" I can.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
The only mmo I ever enjoyed travel in was Asheron's Call. The levels in the game weren't as meaningful as they are in most mmos, as they served to deliver skill points and act as a general guide to your relative power. However, the world was very much set up for exploration, and the random loot system made exploring rewarding as well.
I remember getting set up in Holtburg, grabbing health kits making stam pots and bread, making sure I had plenty of mana stones and the few spell comps I needed for item magic and then just headed north and kept wandering for as long as I could. In my wanderings I would find lifestones to bind to, random vendors out in the wild to sell of excess loot to, random little dungeons all over the place to explore. It was a really neat experience.
However, that type of system only works in that type of a game. AC was more or less an endless leveling game. Even when you hit max level you're not done progressing your character. The random loot system along with the tinkering system means that finding awesome loot is a driving force for just regular play. Grinding out certain mobs for certain items helped to set both short and long term goals. The overall lack of a raiding endgame also meant that everyday PvE was more or less the endgame.
In your typical mmo, travel is basically only a means to get you from zone to zone and then the major gameplay is progressing through the zone via quests. Longer travel while in the zone doesn't make the gameplay more fun, it makes it more tedious.
Too often when we have these types of discussions the "why" behind things gets lost. Gameplay mechanics need to serve an actual purpose and not just randomly add tedium. Travel in Asheron's Call might have been super tedious if it wasn't for the fact that there was a good random loot system and reasons to explore. There was also ways to bypass longer traveling via magic and portals around the world. However, if you added long travel to a game like WoW...that just adds frustration since it would add basically nothing to the game aside from frustration. As it stands, WoW zones have been designed with a certain questing flow in mind. GW2 is a prime example of a game where the exploration is more or less fun once and then never again, since the exploration in the game is static and the loot system is atrocious. "Exploration" in GW2 is mostly about checking off items on a list until you hit 100% explored. That's sort of fun the first time, but it's a freaking chore any time after. Sadly, GW2 is a world where exploration could've been something really cool, but ANet really cocked it up by making the world far too static.
Travel can aid with immersion and can give the feeling you are in a world. Sitting in a town queued for instances/arena doesn't feel like that. I don't see it as bad design. It is more of a choice of MMORPG as world vs MMORPG as an arcade game. I want to have travel and world not arcade game.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Plus the lobby system is a lot cheaper to produce.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Ah so theres "many" ppl that want this now, I thought nobody wanted this type of features thats why the market is choosing lobby games against it??? Or maybe you mean that this is a untapped market which hasnt been discovered by the risk adverse developers of today....
Its a moot point because its moot, no-one disagrees with the idea that single player mmo are more popular than community based games. within the context of this thread it is a false dilemma/red herring that you are injecting into a discussion about the relationship between immersion and travel.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Depends on the game, some games benefit from long travel times and some do not. TOR to me is an example of excessive travel, it impacts the flow of the point of the game (story). SWG was something else entirely, where the long travel could be relaxing in between hectic PVP battles, or long drawn out hunting trips. Again depends on the game and it's core mechanics.
As for danger making for better travel.. to many it becomes nothing but frustration. AGain depends on the game... Dark souls vs Skyrim...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For those that consider slow travel a waste of time, take MMO out of the equation and consider the following:
RPG
Skyrim is designed to enhance the exploration experience through huge atmospheric beautiful landscapes, where things can only be found through slow travel. Then on top of that people have also developed mods specifically to remove fast travel to enhance immersion.
Single player exploration games! Enough said, we have a whole genre dedicated to slow travel. for example see The Long Dark or The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, Lifeless Planet, Myst games, not to mention the award winning Dear Esther.
Slow travel is not only relevant to Immersion, it is used in many different gaming Genres, and is almost always a core element of games that are focused on immersive game play.
lol in fact Steam has a filter called 'walking simulator'
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I never understood the idea of mods that remove fast travel, I always saved myself the time and just didn't use it if I was in an explorer mood.
Anyway, world travel can heighten immersion, but I have never found it to be the main provider of immersion in TES games. Many other factors come before it, like choice, excellent character building, great atmosphere/artificial life.. Etc.. The same types of qualities that made something like NWN2 or KOTOR so addictive for me. Where exploration was pretty much nonexistent. I'm still hard pressed to find games that connected me so well to the world I was in like KOTOR or NWN, and exploration had no real part in it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D