So how do you make travel interesting nit just the first time but the 20th time as well. I'm not saying it can't be done i just don't know how they would do it.
I don't anything anyone has figured it out. Otherwise, instant travel would not be so prevalent.
In fact, by definition, it is not possible to make traveling from point A to point B interesting when you have to do it multiple times.
Any idea to randomly put encounter into the travel .. is not fixing the travel itself, and the interesting stuff can always be taken out, and let players access it instantly.
Hence, i wouldn't play a game with slow travel .. because it is boring to me. If someone find walking the same route again and again fun, more power to them, but don't expect everyone to agree.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar That's correct. It was still in it though. It wad a good way to interact. I only got my druid to about 40 but i made a lot plat from them. Eq was not just slow travel. There were ways around it.
Yes, and I enjoyed the way EQ implemented their fast travel. That mode of fast travel "made sense" to me
It is the open map, click on spot, and go method that I dislike and has no reason (usually) for being in the game except: Efficient use of player's time.
Let's face it, if a developer thinks that unlimited fast travel fits into their game, that kind of indicates to me what they think of their world: best if players skip it.
Even when WoW had their "stones", it took 3 other players to get one player to them for the dungeon run
A Sci-Fi game I could accept fast travel ("Beam me up, Scotty!") much easier. It could be attributed to a deice that anyone can have. A Fantasy game, though, there is no way a Warrior or Rogue has access to a magic "teleport" spell.
Have fast travel in the game. Just make it make sense for that world and encourage player interaction
[EDIT] To add this in, too.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar It's very difficult to do that though. I'll use eq again as an example. Everyone brings up kithicor woods as an example of interesting travel. But it really wasn't. All you learned to do was hug the wall.So how do you make travel interesting nit just the first time but the 20th time as well. I'm not saying it can't be done i just don't know how they would do it.
A very good point. I think much can be alleviated by NOT having player go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth again along the same path.
One guy in town wants you to gather pelts. Then another guy in the same town has his daughter kidnapped (in the same area as the pelts are). Delivering messages and packages between the same 2 places will get old, fast. Make going through an area multiple times a player's choice instead of a guided pathway.
You are correct about Kithicor Woods in EQ. You hugged the snot out of that wall until you got to Rivervale's entrance. I still got killed doing that, though But, it made it interesting in "when" you got to it. "Do I have enough time to run straight through, or do I camp?" High level characters now had a new zone (from 6PM to 6AM) in which to hunt, and possibly help other characters. I know, that never really happened on the servers I played on, but the possibility is there
The thing about it was the zone changed. It was not the same zone every single time a player went through. That made it interesting, not that you hugged a wall to get around the obstacles placed in your way. It factored into players' decisions on where and how to travel.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
It is the open map, click on spot, and go method that I dislike and has no reason (usually) for being in the game except: Efficient use of player's time.
That is a pretty good reason.
Plus, it is trivial to make up some mumbo-jumbo about a magic map that will teleport you. The fact that most games don't even do that is a sign that the "immersion" of travel is just not that important to the audience.
Im not looking for efficiency in a game, i'm looking for pleasure. Looking for immersion in a game is niche (im highlighting because some people are mistakenly threatened by a niche concept). Time to move on - the majority don't like slow travel, however the total player base do like choice, we want choice, one mans mumbo jumbo is another mans story. We want a mixture of mainstream and niche (thats natural) but when people try to shoot down gaming specialisations then they should ask themeselves why are they trying to downplay choice.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom Im not looking for efficiency in a game, i'm looking for pleasure. Looking for immersion in a game is niche (im highlighting because some people are mistakenly threatened by a niche concept). Time to move on - the majority don't like slow travel, however the total player base do like choice, we want choice, one mans mumbo jumbo is another mans story. We want a mixture of mainstream and niche (thats natural) but when people try to shoot down gaming specialisations then they should ask themeselves why are they trying to downplay choice.
I am ... more efficiency means more fun to me. Walking around aimlessly is not. You *have* choice. In all the games that have fast travel (assuming there *is* an open world), you can always walk.
Take wow as an example. You don't have to use a teleport or a flight path. That is choice.
I am not arguing to remove slow travel. I am arguing to have fast travel always as a choice.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar That's correct. It was still in it though. It wad a good way to interact. I only got my druid to about 40 but i made a lot plat from them. Eq was not just slow travel. There were ways around it.
Yes, and I enjoyed the way EQ implemented their fast travel. That mode of fast travel "made sense" to me
It is the open map, click on spot, and go method that I dislike and has no reason (usually) for being in the game except: Efficient use of player's time.
Let's face it, if a developer thinks that unlimited fast travel fits into their game, that kind of indicates to me what they think of their world: best if players skip it.
Even when WoW had their "stones", it took 3 other players to get one player to them for the dungeon run
A Sci-Fi game I could accept fast travel ("Beam me up, Scotty!") much easier. It could be attributed to a deice that anyone can have. A Fantasy game, though, there is no way a Warrior or Rogue has access to a magic "teleport" spell.
Have fast travel in the game. Just make it make sense for that world and encourage player interaction
[EDIT] To add this in, too.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar It's very difficult to do that though. I'll use eq again as an example. Everyone brings up kithicor woods as an example of interesting travel. But it really wasn't. All you learned to do was hug the wall.
So how do you make travel interesting nit just the first time but the 20th time as well. I'm not saying it can't be done i just don't know how they would do it.
A very good point. I think much can be alleviated by NOT having player go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth again along the same path.
One guy in town wants you to gather pelts. Then another guy in the same town has his daughter kidnapped (in the same area as the pelts are). Delivering messages and packages between the same 2 places will get old, fast. Make going through an area multiple times a player's choice instead of a guided pathway.
You are correct about Kithicor Woods in EQ. You hugged the snot out of that wall until you got to Rivervale's entrance. I still got killed doing that, though But, it made it interesting in "when" you got to it. "Do I have enough time to run straight through, or do I camp?" High level characters now had a new zone (from 6PM to 6AM) in which to hunt, and possibly help other characters. I know, that never really happened on the servers I played on, but the possibility is there
The thing about it was the zone changed. It was not the same zone every single time a player went through. That made it interesting, not that you hugged a wall to get around the obstacles placed in your way. It factored into players' decisions on where and how to travel.
Except that in a fantasy game there are trinkets, scrolls, wands, etc that allow non-magic users to use magic in a limited way. Hell, in D&D 3.0 (or was it 3.5) rogues were extremely effective at using magical devices. The difference between Sci-Fi and Fantasy is that technology and magic are most often the replacements for one another. A Sci-Fi setting might have a personal matter transporting device, a fantasy setting has a magical ring of teleportation. The lines between Sci-Fi and Fantasy have been extremely blurred for a good while here, and they often cross over with one another frequently.
The point is that regardless of setting, fast travel options can be created to make sense regardless of the method. The thing that most often breaks immersion is the users (in)ability to suspend disbelief. If you say you feel like a warrior and rogue could in no possible way have access to a teleport spell and then a fantasy game gives everyone a teleportation ring to freely use you may not "buy in". The immersion isn't broken because of the method within the game, it's broken for you because you refuse to accept it.
In a grander scale, immersion is extremely subjective to the end user.
Originally posted by Maurgrim Give me EVE Online in a fantasy setting in a massive seamless world then I wont be needing to find another home for decades.
Originally posted by Maurgrim Give me EVE Online in a fantasy setting in a massive seamless world then I wont be needing to find another home for decades.
Asheron's Call, it's been around since 1999.
Yes it has but I's not even close to EVE in a fantasy setting.
Originally posted by Maurgrim Give me EVE Online in a fantasy setting in a massive seamless world then I wont be needing to find another home for decades.
Asheron's Call, it's been around since 1999.
Yes it has but I's not even close to EVE in a fantasy setting.
Play on Darktide and it's pretty close. Except there is no high sec.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Im not looking for efficiency in a game, i'm looking for pleasure. Looking for immersion in a game is niche (im highlighting because some people are mistakenly threatened by a niche concept). Time to move on - the majority don't like slow travel, however the total player base do like choice, we want choice, one mans mumbo jumbo is another mans story. We want a mixture of mainstream and niche (thats natural) but when people try to shoot down gaming specialisations then they should ask themeselves why are they trying to downplay choice.
I am ... more efficiency means more fun to me. Walking around aimlessly is not. You *have* choice. In all the games that have fast travel (assuming there *is* an open world), you can always walk.
Take wow as an example. You don't have to use a teleport or a flight path. That is choice.
I am not arguing to remove slow travel. I am arguing to have fast travel always as a choice.
When i refer to choice i'm not talking mechanic i'm talking titles. Some games are damaged by slow play, some are damaged by fast play. people are arguing here that X is better than Y, but we want X & Y, and when they conflict keep them separate. MMO action games may benefit from instant travel, MMORPG (emphasis on RPG) may benefit from slow play.
Perfect example again, Elite is not for you which is cool, and its gameplay would be broken with fast travel. Not all games benefit for fast travel. Same with Eve, the game would break down if there was instant travel. In both games, distance = profit, and in the latter distance provides security. Put fast travel in either of these games will literally break their playability..
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
When i refer to choice i'm not talking mechanic i'm talking titles. Some games are damaged by slow play, some are damaged by fast play. people are arguing here that X is better than Y, but we want X & Y, and when they conflict keep them separate. MMO action games may benefit from instant travel, MMORPG (emphasis on RPG) may benefit from slow play.
Perfect example again, Elite is not for you which is cool, and its gameplay would be broken with fast travel. Not all games benefit for fast travel. Same with Eve, the game would break down if there was instant travel. In both games, distance = profit, and in the latter distance provides security.
Calling BS on this. I've played many good RPGs with fast travel.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
When i refer to choice i'm not talking mechanic i'm talking titles. Some games are damaged by slow play, some are damaged by fast play. people are arguing here that X is better than Y, but we want X & Y, and when they conflict keep them separate. MMO action games may benefit from instant travel, MMORPG (emphasis on RPG) may benefit from slow play.
Perfect example again, Elite is not for you which is cool, and its gameplay would be broken with fast travel. Not all games benefit for fast travel. Same with Eve, the game would break down if there was instant travel. In both games, distance = profit, and in the latter distance provides security.
Calling BS on this. I've played many good RPGs with fast travel.
No, I think Bladestrom is right. When you're traveling fast, you're skipping the world to get to the action. And if all you want is the action, then an MOBA is probably a better game for you.
For folks who want the "world" aspect of play, slower travel IS part of the adventure as much as arriving at a dungeon. I've experience some pretty harrowing and exciting adventures just traveling from A to B ... in the right games (i.e., Everquest).
This has been my experience as well only with different games.
If I'm looking for some quick shits and giggles the last thing I'm going to turn to is an MMO. I'll fire up a good FPS like Combat Arms, or as you say a MOBA (DOTA 2 in my case).
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
When i refer to choice i'm not talking mechanic i'm talking titles. Some games are damaged by slow play, some are damaged by fast play. people are arguing here that X is better than Y, but we want X & Y, and when they conflict keep them separate. MMO action games may benefit from instant travel, MMORPG (emphasis on RPG) may benefit from slow play.
Perfect example again, Elite is not for you which is cool, and its gameplay would be broken with fast travel. Not all games benefit for fast travel. Same with Eve, the game would break down if there was instant travel. In both games, distance = profit, and in the latter distance provides security.
Calling BS on this. I've played many good RPGs with fast travel.
No, I think Bladestrom is right. When you're traveling fast, you're skipping the world to get to the action. And if all you want is the action, then an MOBA is probably a better game for you.
For folks who want the "world" aspect of play, slower travel IS part of the adventure as much as arriving at a dungeon. I've experience some pretty harrowing and exciting adventures just traveling from A to B ... in the right games (i.e., Everquest).
This has been my experience as well only with different games.
If I'm looking for some quick shits and giggles the last thing I'm going to turn to is an MMO. I'll fire up a good FPS like Combat Arms, or as you say a MOBA (DOTA 2 in my case).
Ive played good RPG with fast travel as well, that's not what i said (hint - 'may'). Agree with points above, when it works in an RPG it enhances gameplay.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
When i refer to choice i'm not talking mechanic i'm talking titles. Some games are damaged by slow play, some are damaged by fast play. people are arguing here that X is better than Y, but we want X & Y, and when they conflict keep them separate. MMO action games may benefit from instant travel, MMORPG (emphasis on RPG) may benefit from slow play.
Perfect example again, Elite is not for you which is cool, and its gameplay would be broken with fast travel. Not all games benefit for fast travel. Same with Eve, the game would break down if there was instant travel. In both games, distance = profit, and in the latter distance provides security.
Calling BS on this. I've played many good RPGs with fast travel.
No, I think Bladestrom is right. When you're traveling fast, you're skipping the world to get to the action. And if all you want is the action, then an MOBA is probably a better game for you.
For folks who want the "world" aspect of play, slower travel IS part of the adventure as much as arriving at a dungeon. I've experience some pretty harrowing and exciting adventures just traveling from A to B ... in the right games (i.e., Everquest).
I don't want pvp action, i want pve, action ... so a diablo-type game is better for me.
But the point is that MOBA is now part of MMOs. There are other non-world based MMOs too. Since the "world' aspect is less and less relevant to MMOs, slow travel is less and less needed.
Not that i mind an option of slow travel in a game as long as i don't have to suffer it. It boils down to what kind of audience devs want to cater to. If they want to cater to those who want a slow virtual persistent world, count me out. I have plenty of other games to play.
I don't want pvp action, i want pve, action ... so a diablo-type game is better for me.
But the point is that MOBA is now part of MMOs. There are other non-world based MMOs too. Since the "world' aspect is less and less relevant to MMOs, slow travel is less and less needed.
Not that i mind an option of slow travel in a game as long as i don't have to suffer it. It boils down to what kind of audience devs want to cater to. If they want to cater to those who want a slow virtual persistent world, count me out. I have plenty of other games to play.
Lol.
I know it's a dream of yours, but that hasn't happened yet, if ever. Also, if you feel "suffereing" in a video game, I don't even know where to begin.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
The only types of fast travel i like in my MMORPG's are the ones provided by the players themselves. Find a mage to port you or a bard to make ground travel quicker.
Don't want to interact with other players to get anywhere? Start walking or go play something else.
I don't want pvp action, i want pve, action ... so a diablo-type game is better for me.
But the point is that MOBA is now part of MMOs. There are other non-world based MMOs too. Since the "world' aspect is less and less relevant to MMOs, slow travel is less and less needed.
Not that i mind an option of slow travel in a game as long as i don't have to suffer it. It boils down to what kind of audience devs want to cater to. If they want to cater to those who want a slow virtual persistent world, count me out. I have plenty of other games to play.
Lol.
I know it's a dream of yours, but that hasn't happened yet, if ever. Also, if you feel "suffereing" in a video game, I don't even know where to begin.
I still dont understand what you are wanting nars, Mobas are MMOS. Mobas have fast travel, slow travel does not suit Mobas, MMORPG and Mobas are a different type of game. Some MMO Role Playing Games have Slow travel. Whats the issue - don't players that don't like Slow play simply choose not to play RPG with Slow play?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
When i refer to choice i'm not talking mechanic i'm talking titles. Some games are damaged by slow play, some are damaged by fast play. people are arguing here that X is better than Y, but we want X & Y, and when they conflict keep them separate. MMO action games may benefit from instant travel, MMORPG (emphasis on RPG) may benefit from slow play.
Perfect example again, Elite is not for you which is cool, and its gameplay would be broken with fast travel. Not all games benefit for fast travel. Same with Eve, the game would break down if there was instant travel. In both games, distance = profit, and in the latter distance provides security.
Calling BS on this. I've played many good RPGs with fast travel.
No, I think Bladestrom is right. When you're traveling fast, you're skipping the world to get to the action. And if all you want is the action, then an MOBA is probably a better game for you.
For folks who want the "world" aspect of play, slower travel IS part of the adventure as much as arriving at a dungeon. I've experience some pretty harrowing and exciting adventures just traveling from A to B ... in the right games (i.e., Everquest).
This has been my experience as well only with different games.
If I'm looking for some quick shits and giggles the last thing I'm going to turn to is an MMO. I'll fire up a good FPS like Combat Arms, or as you say a MOBA (DOTA 2 in my case).
Ive played good RPG with fast travel as well, that's not what i said (hint - 'may'). Agree with points above, when it works in an RPG it enhances gameplay.
But there's hardly ever anything interesting in "the world"! Even in pen & paper RPGs you skip all the boring bits and they very much feel like "a world". More so than any MMORPG.
Why don't you turn to pen & paper RPGs instead, hmm?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I don't want pvp action, i want pve, action ... so a diablo-type game is better for me.
But the point is that MOBA is now part of MMOs. There are other non-world based MMOs too. Since the "world' aspect is less and less relevant to MMOs, slow travel is less and less needed.
Not that i mind an option of slow travel in a game as long as i don't have to suffer it. It boils down to what kind of audience devs want to cater to. If they want to cater to those who want a slow virtual persistent world, count me out. I have plenty of other games to play.
Lol.
I know it's a dream of yours, but that hasn't happened yet, if ever. Also, if you feel "suffereing" in a video game, I don't even know where to begin.
according to massively.com, mmorpg.com, superdata, newszoo ... it has. So I will just act as if it does. You certainly are welcomed to hold a different opinion.
I don't want pvp action, i want pve, action ... so a diablo-type game is better for me.
But the point is that MOBA is now part of MMOs. There are other non-world based MMOs too. Since the "world' aspect is less and less relevant to MMOs, slow travel is less and less needed.
Not that i mind an option of slow travel in a game as long as i don't have to suffer it. It boils down to what kind of audience devs want to cater to. If they want to cater to those who want a slow virtual persistent world, count me out. I have plenty of other games to play.
Lol.
I know it's a dream of yours, but that hasn't happened yet, if ever. Also, if you feel "suffereing" in a video game, I don't even know where to begin.
according to massively.com, mmorpg.com, superdata, newszoo ... it has. So I will just act as if it does. You certainly are welcomed to hold a different opinion.
Go ahead. Just don't be surprised when you cannot have a proper discussion because you're using terminology in a way that the majority of people do not.; even though you have that little list.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I don't want pvp action, i want pve, action ... so a diablo-type game is better for me.
But the point is that MOBA is now part of MMOs. There are other non-world based MMOs too. Since the "world' aspect is less and less relevant to MMOs, slow travel is less and less needed.
Not that i mind an option of slow travel in a game as long as i don't have to suffer it. It boils down to what kind of audience devs want to cater to. If they want to cater to those who want a slow virtual persistent world, count me out. I have plenty of other games to play.
Lol.
I know it's a dream of yours, but that hasn't happened yet, if ever. Also, if you feel "suffereing" in a video game, I don't even know where to begin.
I still dont understand what you are wanting nars, Mobas are MMOS. Mobas have fast travel, slow travel does not suit Mobas, MMORPG and Mobas are a different type of game. Some MMO Role Playing Games have Slow travel. Whats the issue - don't players that don't like Slow play simply choose not to play RPG with Slow play?
yes ... i will never choose a game with slow travel. But the point is that many MMOs are increasingly solo, and convenient instance experiences .. and for that audience, slow travel is no longer "good".
Obviously, given the choices available, few needs to suffer "slow travel" if they don't want to .... but the point is that even in games where some players like slow travel, the option is there. No one needs to use a teleport. One can always choose to walk.
I Think most players in this thread that are against slow travel misunderstands this feature somewhat...or completly
Let me make something clear, NO ONE wants boring or meaningless features, so if traveling ONLY is there to get you from Point A to B (usually the case of travel) and there is NO interaction with other players or NPC's or travel hazards this feature may aswell be instant...As is the case with most modern MMO's or other games aswell..
BUT if there is , wich in most cases with old EQ , the travel ment that you could finally see some other parts of a land , It was a milestone , you finally gathered enough experience to "maybe" survive a long journey and see distant lands , It made the World seem ALOT bigger , because travel from your starter Town to some other distant lands should not be taken ligthly.. I served as a FEATURE to meet others and brought players together in a way that is NOT present at ALL in modern games.
But such a feature will not work in a World where everyone wants EVERYTHING handed to them on a silver platter...
Sadly this feature will NEVER see the light of day anymore, as much as it saddens me , I have accepted this and moved on.:)
Comments
I don't anything anyone has figured it out. Otherwise, instant travel would not be so prevalent.
In fact, by definition, it is not possible to make traveling from point A to point B interesting when you have to do it multiple times.
Any idea to randomly put encounter into the travel .. is not fixing the travel itself, and the interesting stuff can always be taken out, and let players access it instantly.
Hence, i wouldn't play a game with slow travel .. because it is boring to me. If someone find walking the same route again and again fun, more power to them, but don't expect everyone to agree.
It is the open map, click on spot, and go method that I dislike and has no reason (usually) for being in the game except: Efficient use of player's time.
Let's face it, if a developer thinks that unlimited fast travel fits into their game, that kind of indicates to me what they think of their world: best if players skip it.
Even when WoW had their "stones", it took 3 other players to get one player to them for the dungeon run
A Sci-Fi game I could accept fast travel ("Beam me up, Scotty!") much easier. It could be attributed to a deice that anyone can have. A Fantasy game, though, there is no way a Warrior or Rogue has access to a magic "teleport" spell.
Have fast travel in the game. Just make it make sense for that world and encourage player interaction
[EDIT] To add this in, too.
A very good point. I think much can be alleviated by NOT having player go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth again along the same path.One guy in town wants you to gather pelts. Then another guy in the same town has his daughter kidnapped (in the same area as the pelts are). Delivering messages and packages between the same 2 places will get old, fast. Make going through an area multiple times a player's choice instead of a guided pathway.
You are correct about Kithicor Woods in EQ. You hugged the snot out of that wall until you got to Rivervale's entrance. I still got killed doing that, though
But, it made it interesting in "when" you got to it. "Do I have enough time to run straight through, or do I camp?" High level characters now had a new zone (from 6PM to 6AM) in which to hunt, and possibly help other characters. I know, that never really happened on the servers I played on, but the possibility is there 
The thing about it was the zone changed. It was not the same zone every single time a player went through. That made it interesting, not that you hugged a wall to get around the obstacles placed in your way. It factored into players' decisions on where and how to travel.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
That is a pretty good reason.
Plus, it is trivial to make up some mumbo-jumbo about a magic map that will teleport you. The fact that most games don't even do that is a sign that the "immersion" of travel is just not that important to the audience.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I am ... more efficiency means more fun to me. Walking around aimlessly is not. You *have* choice. In all the games that have fast travel (assuming there *is* an open world), you can always walk.
Take wow as an example. You don't have to use a teleport or a flight path. That is choice.
I am not arguing to remove slow travel. I am arguing to have fast travel always as a choice.
Except that in a fantasy game there are trinkets, scrolls, wands, etc that allow non-magic users to use magic in a limited way. Hell, in D&D 3.0 (or was it 3.5) rogues were extremely effective at using magical devices. The difference between Sci-Fi and Fantasy is that technology and magic are most often the replacements for one another. A Sci-Fi setting might have a personal matter transporting device, a fantasy setting has a magical ring of teleportation. The lines between Sci-Fi and Fantasy have been extremely blurred for a good while here, and they often cross over with one another frequently.
The point is that regardless of setting, fast travel options can be created to make sense regardless of the method. The thing that most often breaks immersion is the users (in)ability to suspend disbelief. If you say you feel like a warrior and rogue could in no possible way have access to a teleport spell and then a fantasy game gives everyone a teleportation ring to freely use you may not "buy in". The immersion isn't broken because of the method within the game, it's broken for you because you refuse to accept it.
In a grander scale, immersion is extremely subjective to the end user.
Asheron's Call, it's been around since 1999.
Yes it has but I's not even close to EVE in a fantasy setting.
Play on Darktide and it's pretty close. Except there is no high sec.
When i refer to choice i'm not talking mechanic i'm talking titles. Some games are damaged by slow play, some are damaged by fast play. people are arguing here that X is better than Y, but we want X & Y, and when they conflict keep them separate. MMO action games may benefit from instant travel, MMORPG (emphasis on RPG) may benefit from slow play.
Perfect example again, Elite is not for you which is cool, and its gameplay would be broken with fast travel. Not all games benefit for fast travel. Same with Eve, the game would break down if there was instant travel. In both games, distance = profit, and in the latter distance provides security. Put fast travel in either of these games will literally break their playability..
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Calling BS on this. I've played many good RPGs with fast travel.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
This has been my experience as well only with different games.
If I'm looking for some quick shits and giggles the last thing I'm going to turn to is an MMO. I'll fire up a good FPS like Combat Arms, or as you say a MOBA (DOTA 2 in my case).
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Ive played good RPG with fast travel as well, that's not what i said (hint - 'may'). Agree with points above, when it works in an RPG it enhances gameplay.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I don't want pvp action, i want pve, action ... so a diablo-type game is better for me.
But the point is that MOBA is now part of MMOs. There are other non-world based MMOs too. Since the "world' aspect is less and less relevant to MMOs, slow travel is less and less needed.
Not that i mind an option of slow travel in a game as long as i don't have to suffer it. It boils down to what kind of audience devs want to cater to. If they want to cater to those who want a slow virtual persistent world, count me out. I have plenty of other games to play.
Lol.
I know it's a dream of yours, but that hasn't happened yet, if ever. Also, if you feel "suffereing" in a video game, I don't even know where to begin.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
The only types of fast travel i like in my MMORPG's are the ones provided by the players themselves. Find a mage to port you or a bard to make ground travel quicker.
Don't want to interact with other players to get anywhere? Start walking or go play something else.
I still dont understand what you are wanting nars, Mobas are MMOS. Mobas have fast travel, slow travel does not suit Mobas, MMORPG and Mobas are a different type of game. Some MMO Role Playing Games have Slow travel. Whats the issue - don't players that don't like Slow play simply choose not to play RPG with Slow play?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
But there's hardly ever anything interesting in "the world"! Even in pen & paper RPGs you skip all the boring bits and they very much feel like "a world". More so than any MMORPG.
Why don't you turn to pen & paper RPGs instead, hmm?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
according to massively.com, mmorpg.com, superdata, newszoo ... it has. So I will just act as if it does. You certainly are welcomed to hold a different opinion.
Go ahead. Just don't be surprised when you cannot have a proper discussion because you're using terminology in a way that the majority of people do not.; even though you have that little list.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
yes ... i will never choose a game with slow travel. But the point is that many MMOs are increasingly solo, and convenient instance experiences .. and for that audience, slow travel is no longer "good".
Obviously, given the choices available, few needs to suffer "slow travel" if they don't want to .... but the point is that even in games where some players like slow travel, the option is there. No one needs to use a teleport. One can always choose to walk.
I Think most players in this thread that are against slow travel misunderstands this feature somewhat...or completly
Let me make something clear, NO ONE wants boring or meaningless features, so if traveling ONLY is there to get you from Point A to B (usually the case of travel) and there is NO interaction with other players or NPC's or travel hazards this feature may aswell be instant...As is the case with most modern MMO's or other games aswell..
BUT if there is , wich in most cases with old EQ , the travel ment that you could finally see some other parts of a land , It was a milestone , you finally gathered enough experience to "maybe" survive a long journey and see distant lands , It made the World seem ALOT bigger , because travel from your starter Town to some other distant lands should not be taken ligthly.. I served as a FEATURE to meet others and brought players together in a way that is NOT present at ALL in modern games.
But such a feature will not work in a World where everyone wants EVERYTHING handed to them on a silver platter...
Sadly this feature will NEVER see the light of day anymore, as much as it saddens me , I have accepted this and moved on.:)
It wasn't a milestone. It was interesting setting thesights the first time. That's pretty much it.
putt equals port
I met others through ports and just normal groups. Almost never through travel.