I wonder why a split between exploration/travel map and regular/combat map like in Might & Magic, Fallout (1 & 2), Pokemon, Atlantica Online etc. isn't more popular in MMORPGs. You could run the encounters as hot-joinable instances and save on performance.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
People cry foul if a game features instances, but they want to teleport directly on top of that boss they need to kill.
What use is an open world if nothing ever happens in all that open space? If everybody at the very least flies over it, most people teleport, and the few that stroll around find nothing - because there is nothing to find?
Either design a real world, where you can at any point choose a random direction and sooner or later you will find something that you didn't even know that it exists, or do away with all that, save resources and everyones time and do a more or less lobby based game like Guild Wars or Vindictus.
Though some areas in Guild Wars where rather large. Way larger than many zones in your average "open world" MMO.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
Upon entering cryodil- I was caught off by the size of the map and how long it took to get to places I wanted to go - unfortunately it's a sub game - I just can't spend my sub traveling - I like the openess- I can't do it with a sun though - I feel like it's purpose is just to kill time rather than actually be part of the game.
People cry foul if a game features instances, but they want to teleport directly on top of that boss they need to kill.
What use is an open world if nothing ever happens in all that open space? If everybody at the very least flies over it, most people teleport, and the few that stroll around find nothing - because there is nothing to find?
Either design a real world, where you can at any point choose a random direction and sooner or later you will find something that you didn't even know that it exists, or do away with all that, save resources and everyones time and do a more or less lobby based game like Guild Wars or Vindictus.
Though some areas in Guild Wars where rather large. Way larger than many zones in your average "open world" MMO.
You forget that most of these "armchair developers" are not designing for fun or development resources in mind, but rather "how MMORPGs are supposed to be". They huff and puff but they don't think it through.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I dint think it's invalid at all. It's just a question of looking at the current reality or a hypothetical future.
It might be possible to make slower travel interesting after multiple trips but every game I've ever played including skyrim has failed to achieve that. The first is sometimes interesting. Subsequent times aren't. I never used the teleport in skyrim but i does up my house or used flying mods.
I'm not saying it couldn't be done. I just can't seee how it could be done.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar I dint think it's invalid at all. It's just a question of looking at the current reality or a hypothetical future.
It might be possible to make slower travel interesting after multiple trips but every game I've ever played including skyrim has failed to achieve that. The first is sometimes interesting. Subsequent times aren't. I never used the teleport in skyrim but i does up my house or used flying mods.
I'm not saying it couldn't be done. I just can't seee how it could be done.
...or it might not be worth the effort.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I don't mind a game having chat channels. I mean, if you removed all common channels, like general chat, trade chat and local defense chat, shouldn't you also remove a guild chat for the sake of immersion. Is it more immersive to see hundreds of people talking in the guild chat than doing it in general chat?
To make it better there could be some items like radios, communicators, etc which would allow you to have f.ex guild chat on your UI.
No mmoRPG should have any means of fast traveling. Maybe teleports in major cities would be ok, but even those should cost something to use.
People cry foul if a game features instances, but they want to teleport directly on top of that boss they need to kill.
What use is an open world if nothing ever happens in all that open space? If everybody at the very least flies over it, most people teleport, and the few that stroll around find nothing - because there is nothing to find?
Either design a real world, where you can at any point choose a random direction and sooner or later you will find something that you didn't even know that it exists, or do away with all that, save resources and everyones time and do a more or less lobby based game like Guild Wars or Vindictus.
Though some areas in Guild Wars where rather large. Way larger than many zones in your average "open world" MMO.
The lobby game is more efficient in term of the use of resources. The customers can find the interesting stuff without fail.
I think traveling is fine as long as there are things to do along the way. Problem is with "dumb" game design layouts that are static due to replay by n players at one time, the worlds got smaller to only include this preprogrammed content.
Some good pairings to standard quest content have been seen, like bonus kill quests to bridge quest line content within an area. Until systems get smarter however I don't think we'll see a drastic change. There are titles boasting a more organic AI controlled world but this hasn't been proven yet, just talk.
If content can be made that moves around the world can not only get bigger but with more surprises and that would make travel worth it. Then you may want to bring friends because you may have travelled the same place before but this time may have different obstacles.
Maybe at that point you could also have a random matchmaker system within an area to pull in those who would typically not seek a group. Like GW2 except not static and open to all, just those invited.
IMO Technology will be the key moving forward. The newness of online play is gone for most of us and we're now less likely to randomly chat for no reason.
To help me Roleplay in a role playing game I like to have the game mechanics built in the world. I have no problem with fast travel if I have a spell that allows me teleport or I come across a portal in the wild. I like the fact I can travel on horses, etc...
What I am not a fan of is clicking a map and traveling to where I am going. For me that really takes me away from my role playing experience, which ends up breaking my immersion in the world.
I am a big Elderscrolls fan, but Morrowind is by far my favorite in the series because of the world that was created and the mechanics that were built for it.
To help me Roleplay in a role playing game I like to have the game mechanics built in the world. I have no problem with fast travel if I have a spell that allows me teleport or I come across a portal in the wild. I like the fact I can travel on horses, etc...
What I am not a fan of is clicking a map and traveling to where I am going. For me that really takes me away from my role playing experience, which ends up breaking my immersion in the world.
I am a big Elderscrolls fan, but Morrowind is by far my favorite in the series because of the world that was created and the mechanics that were built for it.
Travel is necessary to have a genuine roleplaying experience. You can't immerse yourself in a fantasy simulation unless there is a cohesive, organic world to explore. Instant travel ruins the sense of time, space and place. Sure, travel may be inconvenient, but it gives the world identity.
We should also have weight limits based on character strength and dark environments based on character perception. The environment needs to be challenging so that players have reason to work together. Just like in real life, the player characters should have a diverse set of skill and abilities and should have to work together to overcome common obstacles presented by the environment. Without this challenge mmorpgs become stale, boring and repetitive.
People cry foul if a game features instances, but they want to teleport directly on top of that boss they need to kill.
What use is an open world if nothing ever happens in all that open space? If everybody at the very least flies over it, most people teleport, and the few that stroll around find nothing - because there is nothing to find?
Either design a real world, where you can at any point choose a random direction and sooner or later you will find something that you didn't even know that it exists, or do away with all that, save resources and everyones time and do a more or less lobby based game like Guild Wars or Vindictus.
Though some areas in Guild Wars where rather large. Way larger than many zones in your average "open world" MMO.
You would need to find people who post that they want an open world AND that they want to do the things you purport in yellow.
I think you will find that the people who actually want an open world also don't want to teleport around (at least in a reasonable way) and don't want to fly over/miss things.
Don't conflate the claims of different people.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
agreed Keat. The reason some people probably don't like this is that they only get pleasure from games that give constant dopamine hits, its just too slow and boring for them and they don't care about immersion - it uses parts of the brain they don't need anymore for games they prefer to play.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
The purpose of the game is entertainment. If I'm not entertained it isn't accomplishing it's reason for existence on my hard drive. Why would I spend time and/or money on entertainment if it's not entertaining?
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Comments
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
People cry foul if a game features instances, but they want to teleport directly on top of that boss they need to kill.
What use is an open world if nothing ever happens in all that open space? If everybody at the very least flies over it, most people teleport, and the few that stroll around find nothing - because there is nothing to find?
Either design a real world, where you can at any point choose a random direction and sooner or later you will find something that you didn't even know that it exists, or do away with all that, save resources and everyones time and do a more or less lobby based game like Guild Wars or Vindictus.
Though some areas in Guild Wars where rather large. Way larger than many zones in your average "open world" MMO.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
You forget that most of these "armchair developers" are not designing for fun or development resources in mind, but rather "how MMORPGs are supposed to be". They huff and puff but they don't think it through.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
It might be possible to make slower travel interesting after multiple trips but every game I've ever played including skyrim has failed to achieve that. The first is sometimes interesting. Subsequent times aren't. I never used the teleport in skyrim but i does up my house or used flying mods.
I'm not saying it couldn't be done. I just can't seee how it could be done.
...or it might not be worth the effort.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I don't mind a game having chat channels. I mean, if you removed all common channels, like general chat, trade chat and local defense chat, shouldn't you also remove a guild chat for the sake of immersion. Is it more immersive to see hundreds of people talking in the guild chat than doing it in general chat?
To make it better there could be some items like radios, communicators, etc which would allow you to have f.ex guild chat on your UI.
No mmoRPG should have any means of fast traveling. Maybe teleports in major cities would be ok, but even those should cost something to use.
The lobby game is more efficient in term of the use of resources. The customers can find the interesting stuff without fail.
there is no danger in insta teleporting
as a result you get people who join who are anti-social and instantly drop groups or steal loot or are jerks and kick people
it attracts, bad attitude people
there is no danger in insta teleporting
as a result you get people who join who are anti-social and instantly drop groups or steal loot or are jerks and kick people
it attracts, bad attitude people
Some good pairings to standard quest content have been seen, like bonus kill quests to bridge quest line content within an area. Until systems get smarter however I don't think we'll see a drastic change. There are titles boasting a more organic AI controlled world but this hasn't been proven yet, just talk.
If content can be made that moves around the world can not only get bigger but with more surprises and that would make travel worth it. Then you may want to bring friends because you may have travelled the same place before but this time may have different obstacles.
Maybe at that point you could also have a random matchmaker system within an area to pull in those who would typically not seek a group. Like GW2 except not static and open to all, just those invited.
IMO Technology will be the key moving forward. The newness of online play is gone for most of us and we're now less likely to randomly chat for no reason.
What I am not a fan of is clicking a map and traveling to where I am going. For me that really takes me away from my role playing experience, which ends up breaking my immersion in the world.
I am a big Elderscrolls fan, but Morrowind is by far my favorite in the series because of the world that was created and the mechanics that were built for it.
What I am not a fan of is clicking a map and traveling to where I am going. For me that really takes me away from my role playing experience, which ends up breaking my immersion in the world.
I am a big Elderscrolls fan, but Morrowind is by far my favorite in the series because of the world that was created and the mechanics that were built for it.
Travel is necessary to have a genuine roleplaying experience. You can't immerse yourself in a fantasy simulation unless there is a cohesive, organic world to explore. Instant travel ruins the sense of time, space and place. Sure, travel may be inconvenient, but it gives the world identity.
We should also have weight limits based on character strength and dark environments based on character perception. The environment needs to be challenging so that players have reason to work together. Just like in real life, the player characters should have a diverse set of skill and abilities and should have to work together to overcome common obstacles presented by the environment. Without this challenge mmorpgs become stale, boring and repetitive.
You would need to find people who post that they want an open world AND that they want to do the things you purport in yellow.
I think you will find that the people who actually want an open world also don't want to teleport around (at least in a reasonable way) and don't want to fly over/miss things.
Don't conflate the claims of different people.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
My immersion is not dependent upon a specific feature but rather if that feature makes sense in the world it is taking place in.
I was/am very immersed in EQ and Istaria. Both have fast travel.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
The purpose of the game is entertainment. If I'm not entertained it isn't accomplishing it's reason for existence on my hard drive. Why would I spend time and/or money on entertainment if it's not entertaining?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D