Originally posted by Kiyoris I don't get it, I thought gaming sites said P2P was dead....yet FFXIV is doing fine and people are jumping F2P like Arecheage faster than rats from a sinking ship.
Any game that has inbred mechanics that are designed to get you to use the cash shop is epic fail for me. I know people like AA but I don't like a game that tells me I can only craft so much a day. And no matter how good of skill I have, I could lose my crafted item during upgrading due to a RNG. Screw you AA! P2P FTW!
I love your user picture, is that from the 13th Warrior? If so, he was my favorite character!
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
Originally posted by monochrome19 Anyone who thinks FFXIV is better than WoW is either a rabid fanboy or has no concept what makes something good. Just saying.
Yeah!
anyone that thinks *insert high quality resturant of choice here* is better than Micky D's is either a rabid fainboi or has no concept of good food. . .
Originally posted by monochrome19 Anyone who thinks FFXIV is better than WoW is either a rabid fanboy or has no concept what makes something good. Just saying.
Yeah!
anyone that thinks *insert high quality resturant of choice here* is better than Micky D's is either a rabid fainboi or has no concept of good food. . .
. . .just saying. . .
His comment is delusional and your analogy of FFXIV (high quality restaurant) and WoW (McDonalds) is stupid too. In the restaurant example you can actually prove that McDonalds is unhealthy. When it comes to game quality, it's not clear cut. Just because WoW is popular does not mean it's poor quality and can be compared to McDonalds lol. Something can be popular and of great quality at the same time. I know hipsters and "indie" fans may not be able to comprehend this but it actually is true.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Originally posted by monochrome19 Anyone who thinks FFXIV is better than WoW is either a rabid fanboy or has no concept what makes something good. Just saying.
Yeah!
anyone that thinks *insert high quality resturant of choice here* is better than Micky D's is either a rabid fainboi or has no concept of good food. . .
. . .just saying. . .
His comment is delusional and your analogy of FFXIV (high quality restaurant) and WoW (McDonalds) is stupid too. In the restaurant example you can actually prove that McDonalds is unhealthy. When it comes to game quality, it's not clear cut. Just because WoW is popular does not mean it's poor quality and can be compared to McDonalds lol. Something can be popular and of great quality at the same time. I know hipsters and "indie" fans may not be able to comprehend this but it actually is true.
First off stop with the red herrings.
I am talking about taste not the "Healthyness" ( the red herring, if your brain needed help) of one brand over the other.
Please refrain from calling analogys stupid if you yourself lack the intellect to see the obvious link. . .
Yes while something can be both popular and good at the same time, that still doesn't make the more popular one better than the others by default. which apparently was the point your limited brain missed. . .
Originally posted by monochrome19 Anyone who thinks FFXIV is better than WoW is either a rabid fanboy or has no concept what makes something good. Just saying.
Or people who have played both extensively and know what they're talking about when it comes to their tastes. Though it's a matter of personal taste, either way. But people can keep on playing a game that treats its customer base like crap, delivering the worst content updates in the market despite it's budget (how soon we forgive and forget frequent 12-15 month content droughts, as well) if they want. In my opinion (and from personal experience), most who still play WoW are the "rabid" fans of it for tolerating the same old crap for this many years. They're addicted (even if it's an impulse addiction to buy the new expansion each time it comes out and only play it for a few months), and refuse to see that there are much better companies -- and games -- out there if they only give them a chance and play them to the end and see just how much WoW takes everyone for granted, milking it's playerbase for all it's worth until the next large drop in subscribers.
I currently have five accounts active on WoW; I'm canceling four of them and only keeping one active due to having five 60 day cards available and the obligations I have to some friends regarding Challenge Modes and PvP. Not to mention some RP guilds and stories that I just can't abandon.
WoW is good at what it does -- ripping customers off and repeating the same tired formula it has to people who eat it up. Saving all the "best" features for expansions and giving crap for all in actual patches. Then only focusing on making the expansions because they get an even larger chunk of money from making content that isn't free, despite people paying $180 a year for said patches. In reality, they're paying them $180 for them to make a $50 expansion that you'll buy. I'd sooner support a Kickstarter game for $180; at least that company might have need of it (if you do your research right) and includes what they work on, instead of again selling it for $50 when you already paid them. It has a good thing going; it'd be foolhardy to stop until people figure out what's happening on a one by one basis.
That said, it's only when it comes to WoW do I have no faith in Blizzard or feel they're just out to rip people off. Same goes currently for Heroes of the Storm -- a game whereby 100% of my comments on it so far on this forum have been incredibly positive -- due to it's $40 beta pack that offers the lowest tier (at the time; Raynor was bumped up slightly, but still isn't great... and he's usually a free rotation hero, anyway) ranked heroes in it's packages so that once you get in, you now how the privilege to buy the best heroes for $10-15 or buy booster packs to increase gold acquisition each map and soon have the opportunity to buy a 15,000 gold character in a few days or weeks (depending if you spend your leveling gold already). With Starcraft II and Diablo III I still have some faith that "the old" Blizzard is in there as they're making those games for the fans of the franchise (when they could be spending more time trying to rip people off). Granted though the Auction House in Diablo III was worrisome, especially how they wanted to take cuts out of each purchase. SCII doesn't really have any strikes against it if you don't count that private tournaments with a prize pool of over $5,000 have to pay Blizzard in some way (it's been a long time since I read about this and I may have completely forgot about nuances), perhaps as a sort of royalty. Maybe due to some legal matters. I'd have to look it up, but as a whole it doesn't affect the the individual customer this time around.
What game is the best in any genre? It's subjective. If numbers are your game, then WoW. If actual game support and content updates from a company that doesn't nickle and dime you is your preference, then FFXIV (when comparing the two). Heck, I have about 16 characters on FFXIV and possibly 100+ on WoW from all my accounts over the years. If I wanted to change the appearance of all my characters, it would cost $10 on FFXIV for all 16. Whereas I'd have to individually pay for each "toon" on WoW. In addition, they (the producer director) pledged that such purchases would be added to make the game better by buying more servers for housing, rather than pocketing the cash.
I want the best bang for my buck, and WoW doesn't give it. One could say it's a "better" game, but it's not cost effective nor worth the money it asks for when considering the content it gives back and the options that are on the market. There is no denying that at all (the fact that it has horrible updates, even if it has updates since they'd rather work on a $50 expansion they can sell you and make more money, when compared to others). In addition, there's nothing wrong if one wants to continue to play it if it's their favorite game. There are just better deals on the market from less greedy developers, who offer much, much more for your monthly fee. Heck, with $180 I could buy 20 games on Steam and say "Screw P2P MMOs altogether".
Though I guess we now treat it as a "barrier" rather than a guarantee or expectation that we'll get updates worth our money. It's been quite the deterrent for WoW's playerbase, let me tell you. I only see five people raging in chat, or posting recount an hour within WoW while in pug groups. Though that's a matter of increase player base equaling a higher chance of getting bad eggs, or a game in particular supporting such behavior. Which is a topic for another day.
...Though it is fair to mention that FFXIV's LFR constantly has people saying "Hello" in chat, with everyone being excited whenever the game tells you there's a new person in the dungeon... as it's set up to give everyone bonus resources -- typically twice they normally do -- when they're there. Along with a half dozen people offering to give advice if it's needed to smooth things along. Which is a product of an environment Square created moreso than it is just nice people. They're encouraged and trained throughout the game to do such, especially with player commendations at the end of dungeons. This comes after mistakes of putting cutscenes in the first two 8 man dungeons at level 50 where speed runners conflicted with people enjoying the story. But, those two were the exception to the rule (and a product of bad design) which were a non-issue in past and future raids and dungeons (and nowadays I've not seen any friction in those two dungeons when I play them, despite constantly being notified that there are still new players attempting it).
But then again, in FFXIV parsers are illegal and a ban-offense if you post numbers or say you're using one. Whereas it's the culture in WoW to want to try and stroke your ego. Mainly because it lost it's flare and it's difficulty long ago (excluding content for the 1%, and people forget about tactics just to try and top DPS with their incredibly simple rotations since WoD).
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Originally posted by monochrome19 Anyone who thinks FFXIV is better than WoW is either a rabid fanboy or has no concept what makes something good. Just saying.
I currently have five accounts active on WoW; I'm canceling four of them and only keeping one active due to having five 60 day cards available and the obligations I have to some friends regarding Challenge Modes and PvP. Not to mention some RP guilds and stories that I just can't abandon.
You have 5 accounts active on WoW? My mind just can't comprehend why someone would ever need 5 accounts? Why do you need more than 1 account? So you are paying 5 subs a month for WOW?
But yeah his rabid fanboy comment is completely uncalled for. But damn, 5 accounts?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
So .... you are saying that FFXIV ARR has sold - sold - 1.5M copies since the end of 2014 in countries, excluding, China?
And that Square Enix's press releases are vague?
And no SE has not just used registered accounts; we have had the 1M subscribers across 3 games for example.
I will stick with OK.
The 1 million figure was a year ago. I'm just saying that the landscape has changed quite a bit and SE hasn't been clear regarding their stance on China. You are aware that SE handles FFXIV completely different in China and Korea than elsewhere.
Community calculations, while more or less inaccurate, have shown that the non-Chinese version is hovering around 600k subs. The Chinese version can only add to that figure, but currently there is no way of knowing how much.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Originally posted by monochrome19 Anyone who thinks FFXIV is better than WoW is either a rabid fanboy or has no concept what makes something good. Just saying.
Or people who have played both extensively and know what they're talking about when it comes to their tastes. Though it's a matter of personal taste, either way. But people can keep on playing a game that treats its customer base like crap, delivering the worst content updates in the market despite it's budget (how soon we forgive and forget frequent 12-15 month content droughts, as well) if they want.
The guy you quoted and his drive-by statements do not deserve posts like this. The blue quoted part sums up the discussion quite well anyhow. Having 10 million sheep that don't know better = WoW is the better game? What a massive joke. The size of a flock does not a better game make. In 2015.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I'm not gonna read that giant wall of text but I will say, yes, it is a matter of preference, but there is also an objective view as well. If a game is full of bugs then yes it is in a worse state than a more refined one. Not saying FFXIV is, just an example. But there are comparable objective elements that cause me to say WoW is better.
And really, FFXIV bombed the first time around, copying WoW and other games was explicitly stated as a goal in the revamp. So to me at least, there is no chance of game that just released copying and doing better than a game that has been around an entire decade and has had time to refine itself over and over.
I'm pretty sure a majority of people would agree WoW is not bad, not by a long shot, we're simply burned out or tired of its familiarity. Assuming WoW could reinvent the wheel again there is no doubt in my mind everyone would drop whatever MMO theyre playing and return.
I'm not gonna read that giant wall of text but I will say, yes, it is a matter of preference, but there is also an objective view as well. If a game is full of bugs then yes it is in a worse state than a more refined one. Not saying FFXIV is, just an example. But there are comparable objective elements that cause me to say WoW is better.
And really, FFXIV bombed the first time around, copying WoW and other games was explicitly stated as a goal in the revamp. So to me at least, there is no chance of game that just released copying and doing better than a game that has been around an entire decade and has had time to refine itself over and over.
I'm pretty sure a majority of people would agree WoW is not bad, not by a long shot, we're simply burned out or tired of its familiarity. Assuming WoW could reinvent the wheel again there is no doubt in my mind everyone would drop whatever MMO theyre playing and return.
Well we're all glad you avoid mentioning what those "objective elements" actually are, it gives your argument nice weight without you actually saying anything of significance. "This is my opinion but it is based on objective facts which I will not mention under any circumstances."
What WoW players continue to be oblivious about time and time again is the fact it matters increasingly little what WoW has done for the past 10 years if the game takes its playerbase for granted today. Being incredibly refined is a poor substitute for not having anything of worth to do for years at a time. Why would anyone play a game with 10 million players that craps on them instead of of a game with a fraction of that kind of playerbase that goes above and beyond to treat them like they are kings? You really have to have some sort of Stockholm syndrome to encourage the former practices.
Now don't get me wrong, FFXIV didn't become the top dog for the non-Stockholmers just by being so much better than WoW. No, WoW devs decided that they don't want to put in the work any self-respecting player deserves which does not make FFXIV so good as much as it makes WoW a mere graveyard of it's former self. WoW could still be the King for everyone but it chose that this is not a priority. What a joke.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
FF14: ARR is a superb game that deserves to be p2p but i doubt WoW has anything to worry about. while WoW was an epic game (still a great game) the reason that it got to 10 million sub was not just quality. it was timing. in fame there is a certain point that if you manage to pass, then even without doing anything you keep getting more and more attention (imagine Pewdiepie). WoW was the first to reach that point. ironically when something reaches that level, others try to imitate. which is why they usually won't get as good as the original and when they do manage to get that good or even better, they won't get that much attention because others are still busy with the original.
Timing made WoW what it is and Time is the only thing that can undo it as well. (or Blizzard itself if they go fully mad). Blizzard is smart about these stuff of course. they didn't unload themselves with WoW Classic. they refined it with TBC while introducing more hype with a well known character, Illidan, until finally make it explode with Arthas when they are sure everything is set. plus they even made a better use of their IP than for example Elder Scrolls Online. Warcraft Series is RTS, so reimagining it as MMORPG feels unique, while in ESO's case, the existence of Skyrim actually hurts ESO for some at least.
my top MMOs: UO,DAOC,WoW,GW2
most of my posts are just my opinions they are not facts,it is the same for you too.
@hyanmen I cant tell if you're trolling or outright unknowledgeable. In all my years of playing WoW I have never felt like the devs have "crapped on me," no I say WoW loves their playerbase more than any MMO on the market, past, future and present. Designing memorials after dead children and actors, making extravagant bust for vets, and interacting with the community constantly does not in the least sound like a company that dislikes its subscribers. Are you deliberately dense? Or...?
On the other hand, you need not look any further than the FFXIV forums to see an example of "crapping on" people. There are hordes or people BEGGING the devs for scraps info or at least acknowledgement for problems. Square is notoriously bad for their lack of info on games but you cant do that with an MMO, its unprofessional.
This is where my fanboy comment comes from, there are people that will defend this game no matter what even if the devs said they hate you and you can no longer play. I can understand being loyal to a brand, i like KH, but seriously, its sad.
Also, I'm typing this on mobile and trying to avoid a wall of text, I'll list everything out once i get to a computer.
Originally posted by monochrome19 @hyanmen I cant tell if you're trolling or outright unknowledgeable. In all my years of playing WoW I have never felt like the devs have "crapped on me," no I say WoW loves their playerbase more than any MMO on the market, past, future and present. Designing memorials after dead children and actors, making extravagant bust for vets, and interacting with the community constantly does not in the least sound like a company that dislikes its subscribers. Are you deliberately dense? Or...?
On the other hand, you need not look any further than the FFXIV forums to see an example of "crapping on" people. There are hordes or people BEGGING the devs for scraps info or at least acknowledgement for problems. Square is notoriously bad for their lack of info on games but you cant do that with an MMO, its unprofessional.
This is where my fanboy comment comes from, there are people that will defend this game no matter what even if the devs said they hate you and you can no longer play. I can understand being loyal to a brand, i like KH, but seriously, its sad.
Also, I'm typing this on mobile and trying to avoid a wall of text, I'll list everything out once i get to a computer.
Maybe you were in a coma for the years WoW received no meaningful content in-between expansions, I really don't know. I'm sure as a paying customer it was all made up by interacting with and understanding the community however.
In light of the deliberate, undeniable content droughts by Blizzard to which you seem to have no problem (or are you really saying this never happened? Dear God), even though they're a clear sign of what Blizzard really thinks of its playerbase, the fanboy comment at first aimed at me seems to be more of a reflection of your own twisted reality in relation to WoW's current state.
Even in WoW's glory days you could find the WoW forums full of people BEGGING and SCREAMING for anything and everything. That's a video game forum for you. Find a game with 99% metacritic score and I'll find you that game's official forums full of people talking crap about said game. If you want to argue FFXIV's flaws you should use proof that isn't applicable to WoW (and any other game) too.
The fact is FFXIV puts out more content than WoW, thus the dev support is better where it matters: not talking about the content droughts and fixing issues within a week (which WoW is not exactly famous of LOL) but putting in the effort month after month to provide as much value to the player as the dev team can squeeze out of the budget. Anything else is you being in huge denial sadly.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Originally posted by monochrome19 @hyanmen I cant tell if you're trolling or outright unknowledgeable. In all my years of playing WoW I have never felt like the devs have "crapped on me," no I say WoW loves their playerbase more than any MMO on the market, past, future and present. Designing memorials after dead children and actors, making extravagant bust for vets, and interacting with the community constantly does not in the least sound like a company that dislikes its subscribers. Are you deliberately dense? Or...? On the other hand, you need not look any further than the FFXIV forums to see an example of "crapping on" people. There are hordes or people BEGGING the devs for scraps info or at least acknowledgement for problems. Square is notoriously bad for their lack of info on games but you cant do that with an MMO, its unprofessional. This is where my fanboy comment comes from, there are people that will defend this game no matter what even if the devs said they hate you and you can no longer play. I can understand being loyal to a brand, i like KH, but seriously, its sad.Also, I'm typing this on mobile and trying to avoid a wall of text, I'll list everything out once i get to a computer.
I think by "crapped on" he could be referring to paying a sub for about 16 months or so without any updates. And the end result was garrisons? I came back to wow after a three year break to play wod and after a few weeks the most interesting thing to do was solo old raids. Just saying it's not something easily agreed upon anyway.
The combat engine is shit and will likely always be shit because it was build on a foundation of shit.. It's slow, clunky, boring, and completely lacking any sort of innovation. As long as that is the case, it will never be a better game than WoW.
Originally posted by monochrome19 Anyone who thinks FFXIV is better than WoW is either a rabid fanboy or has no concept what makes something good. Just saying.
Yeah!
anyone that thinks *insert high quality resturant of choice here* is better than Micky D's is either a rabid fainboi or has no concept of good food. . .
. . .just saying. . .
His comment is delusional and your analogy of FFXIV (high quality restaurant) and WoW (McDonalds) is stupid too. In the restaurant example you can actually prove that McDonalds is unhealthy. When it comes to game quality, it's not clear cut. Just because WoW is popular does not mean it's poor quality and can be compared to McDonalds lol. Something can be popular and of great quality at the same time. I know hipsters and "indie" fans may not be able to comprehend this but it actually is true.
High "quality" restaurants aren't healthy either.
Most of the food analogies used here are just not accurate when in comparison to MMOs. However, the context is pretty straight forward.
What is "high quality" in entertainment is entirely subjective. So anyone who takes something so subjective and puts negative labels on people if they don't like what you like, as though it was fact is what is wrong here. (Saying someone IS something derogatory because they say something is better than what someone else thinks is better)
I play FFXIV. I don't play WoW. Why? XIV is better than WoW and I can give you lists of reasons. All of them subjective.
I think FFXIV is a good game with lots of potential. But I agree with the bad combat comments and have since ARR first released.
It's utter crap. The crossbar hotbar was a great innovation for gamepad playing in mmos. But the combat system it supports is non synergistic and not open enough where you can completely whiff a skill. I don't even have a problem with the speed, I actually think it is too fast. Action combat is fine as well as slower traditional based combat. Here is the worst of both worlds.The whole time playing I feel like I am playing whack a mole with the combo system as I repeat 2-4 actions on each button on the gamepad over and over,aka hack n slash. Dragon Age Inquisition took a page from ARR but even there you can whiff stuff like when aiming the wrong direction with the spinning axe move. No team based combos or renkei equals a step back for me.
That said I still come back to it between game breaks hoping the combat will change. I have been wanting that since the inception of ARR.
Was thinking "hmmm why did I stop playing that game..?".
And then I remembered what the combat was like.
"Not like in WoW."
Baw haw haw...
GW2 combat is not like WoW, it's still a good combat engine.
Tera combat is not like WoW, it's still a good combat engine
Firefall combat is not like WoW, it's still a good combat engine.
XCOMs combat is not like WoW, it's still a good combat engine and it's even turnbased.
FFXIV 's combat engine is utter shit.
If you say so, However I disagree with this whole if it isn't action combatisk it's boring idea. Xcom isn't even an MMO so don't know why that was even mentoined but all the MMO's you mentioned are action in some form or fashion.
I included XCOM just because I knew you'd latch onto the "action" nonsense, since that is the go to rebuttal for anyone who is defending FFXIVs combat. Apparently even doing that didn't mitigate your response. XCOM isn't action based and still has a great combat engine because it's a well designed system.
The point is that FFXIVs combat engine sucks and it has nothing to do whether it's action based or not. It's just plain bad. I will give the encounter designers credit, because they take a inherently poor system and make some pretty solid encounters out of it. I'd have loved to seen what they could have did if the game wasn't hamstrung by it's current implementation.
I'd also like to point out that neither GW2 or WoW are "action" based combat systems, they are simply well done tab target systems.
Was thinking "hmmm why did I stop playing that game..?".
And then I remembered what the combat was like.
"Not like in WoW."
Baw haw haw...
GW2 combat is not like WoW, it's still a good combat engine.
Tera combat is not like WoW, it's still a good combat engine
Firefall combat is not like WoW, it's still a good combat engine.
XCOMs combat is not like WoW, it's still a good combat engine and it's even turnbased.
FFXIV 's combat engine is utter shit.
Try stating it a third time, let's see if it becomes true then?
We could latch on to the whole "I'm just giving a shitty opinion" thing you've got going on here but I think we're avoiding a bullet there. We might get more of the same in the worst case.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Comments
I love your user picture, is that from the 13th Warrior? If so, he was my favorite character!
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
Yeah!
anyone that thinks *insert high quality resturant of choice here* is better than Micky D's is either a rabid fainboi or has no concept of good food. . .
. . .just saying. . .
His comment is delusional and your analogy of FFXIV (high quality restaurant) and WoW (McDonalds) is stupid too. In the restaurant example you can actually prove that McDonalds is unhealthy. When it comes to game quality, it's not clear cut. Just because WoW is popular does not mean it's poor quality and can be compared to McDonalds lol. Something can be popular and of great quality at the same time. I know hipsters and "indie" fans may not be able to comprehend this but it actually is true.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
First off stop with the red herrings.
I am talking about taste not the "Healthyness" ( the red herring, if your brain needed help) of one brand over the other.
Please refrain from calling analogys stupid if you yourself lack the intellect to see the obvious link. . .
Yes while something can be both popular and good at the same time, that still doesn't make the more popular one better than the others by default. which apparently was the point your limited brain missed. . .
Or people who have played both extensively and know what they're talking about when it comes to their tastes. Though it's a matter of personal taste, either way. But people can keep on playing a game that treats its customer base like crap, delivering the worst content updates in the market despite it's budget (how soon we forgive and forget frequent 12-15 month content droughts, as well) if they want. In my opinion (and from personal experience), most who still play WoW are the "rabid" fans of it for tolerating the same old crap for this many years. They're addicted (even if it's an impulse addiction to buy the new expansion each time it comes out and only play it for a few months), and refuse to see that there are much better companies -- and games -- out there if they only give them a chance and play them to the end and see just how much WoW takes everyone for granted, milking it's playerbase for all it's worth until the next large drop in subscribers.
I currently have five accounts active on WoW; I'm canceling four of them and only keeping one active due to having five 60 day cards available and the obligations I have to some friends regarding Challenge Modes and PvP. Not to mention some RP guilds and stories that I just can't abandon.
WoW is good at what it does -- ripping customers off and repeating the same tired formula it has to people who eat it up. Saving all the "best" features for expansions and giving crap for all in actual patches. Then only focusing on making the expansions because they get an even larger chunk of money from making content that isn't free, despite people paying $180 a year for said patches. In reality, they're paying them $180 for them to make a $50 expansion that you'll buy. I'd sooner support a Kickstarter game for $180; at least that company might have need of it (if you do your research right) and includes what they work on, instead of again selling it for $50 when you already paid them. It has a good thing going; it'd be foolhardy to stop until people figure out what's happening on a one by one basis.
That said, it's only when it comes to WoW do I have no faith in Blizzard or feel they're just out to rip people off. Same goes currently for Heroes of the Storm -- a game whereby 100% of my comments on it so far on this forum have been incredibly positive -- due to it's $40 beta pack that offers the lowest tier (at the time; Raynor was bumped up slightly, but still isn't great... and he's usually a free rotation hero, anyway) ranked heroes in it's packages so that once you get in, you now how the privilege to buy the best heroes for $10-15 or buy booster packs to increase gold acquisition each map and soon have the opportunity to buy a 15,000 gold character in a few days or weeks (depending if you spend your leveling gold already). With Starcraft II and Diablo III I still have some faith that "the old" Blizzard is in there as they're making those games for the fans of the franchise (when they could be spending more time trying to rip people off). Granted though the Auction House in Diablo III was worrisome, especially how they wanted to take cuts out of each purchase. SCII doesn't really have any strikes against it if you don't count that private tournaments with a prize pool of over $5,000 have to pay Blizzard in some way (it's been a long time since I read about this and I may have completely forgot about nuances), perhaps as a sort of royalty. Maybe due to some legal matters. I'd have to look it up, but as a whole it doesn't affect the the individual customer this time around.
What game is the best in any genre? It's subjective. If numbers are your game, then WoW. If actual game support and content updates from a company that doesn't nickle and dime you is your preference, then FFXIV (when comparing the two). Heck, I have about 16 characters on FFXIV and possibly 100+ on WoW from all my accounts over the years. If I wanted to change the appearance of all my characters, it would cost $10 on FFXIV for all 16. Whereas I'd have to individually pay for each "toon" on WoW. In addition, they (the producer director) pledged that such purchases would be added to make the game better by buying more servers for housing, rather than pocketing the cash.
I want the best bang for my buck, and WoW doesn't give it. One could say it's a "better" game, but it's not cost effective nor worth the money it asks for when considering the content it gives back and the options that are on the market. There is no denying that at all (the fact that it has horrible updates, even if it has updates since they'd rather work on a $50 expansion they can sell you and make more money, when compared to others). In addition, there's nothing wrong if one wants to continue to play it if it's their favorite game. There are just better deals on the market from less greedy developers, who offer much, much more for your monthly fee. Heck, with $180 I could buy 20 games on Steam and say "Screw P2P MMOs altogether".
Though I guess we now treat it as a "barrier" rather than a guarantee or expectation that we'll get updates worth our money. It's been quite the deterrent for WoW's playerbase, let me tell you. I only see five people raging in chat, or posting recount an hour within WoW while in pug groups. Though that's a matter of increase player base equaling a higher chance of getting bad eggs, or a game in particular supporting such behavior. Which is a topic for another day.
...Though it is fair to mention that FFXIV's LFR constantly has people saying "Hello" in chat, with everyone being excited whenever the game tells you there's a new person in the dungeon... as it's set up to give everyone bonus resources -- typically twice they normally do -- when they're there. Along with a half dozen people offering to give advice if it's needed to smooth things along. Which is a product of an environment Square created moreso than it is just nice people. They're encouraged and trained throughout the game to do such, especially with player commendations at the end of dungeons. This comes after mistakes of putting cutscenes in the first two 8 man dungeons at level 50 where speed runners conflicted with people enjoying the story. But, those two were the exception to the rule (and a product of bad design) which were a non-issue in past and future raids and dungeons (and nowadays I've not seen any friction in those two dungeons when I play them, despite constantly being notified that there are still new players attempting it).
But then again, in FFXIV parsers are illegal and a ban-offense if you post numbers or say you're using one. Whereas it's the culture in WoW to want to try and stroke your ego. Mainly because it lost it's flare and it's difficulty long ago (excluding content for the 1%, and people forget about tactics just to try and top DPS with their incredibly simple rotations since WoD).
You have 5 accounts active on WoW? My mind just can't comprehend why someone would ever need 5 accounts? Why do you need more than 1 account? So you are paying 5 subs a month for WOW?
But yeah his rabid fanboy comment is completely uncalled for. But damn, 5 accounts?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
The 1 million figure was a year ago. I'm just saying that the landscape has changed quite a bit and SE hasn't been clear regarding their stance on China. You are aware that SE handles FFXIV completely different in China and Korea than elsewhere.
Community calculations, while more or less inaccurate, have shown that the non-Chinese version is hovering around 600k subs. The Chinese version can only add to that figure, but currently there is no way of knowing how much.
The guy you quoted and his drive-by statements do not deserve posts like this. The blue quoted part sums up the discussion quite well anyhow. Having 10 million sheep that don't know better = WoW is the better game? What a massive joke. The size of a flock does not a better game make. In 2015.
I'm not gonna read that giant wall of text but I will say, yes, it is a matter of preference, but there is also an objective view as well. If a game is full of bugs then yes it is in a worse state than a more refined one. Not saying FFXIV is, just an example. But there are comparable objective elements that cause me to say WoW is better.
And really, FFXIV bombed the first time around, copying WoW and other games was explicitly stated as a goal in the revamp. So to me at least, there is no chance of game that just released copying and doing better than a game that has been around an entire decade and has had time to refine itself over and over.
I'm pretty sure a majority of people would agree WoW is not bad, not by a long shot, we're simply burned out or tired of its familiarity. Assuming WoW could reinvent the wheel again there is no doubt in my mind everyone would drop whatever MMO theyre playing and return.
I've tried the game on free-trial,
Gotten everything to 20, friendly community.
I don't see much of a problem of subbing
Well we're all glad you avoid mentioning what those "objective elements" actually are, it gives your argument nice weight without you actually saying anything of significance. "This is my opinion but it is based on objective facts which I will not mention under any circumstances."
What WoW players continue to be oblivious about time and time again is the fact it matters increasingly little what WoW has done for the past 10 years if the game takes its playerbase for granted today. Being incredibly refined is a poor substitute for not having anything of worth to do for years at a time. Why would anyone play a game with 10 million players that craps on them instead of of a game with a fraction of that kind of playerbase that goes above and beyond to treat them like they are kings? You really have to have some sort of Stockholm syndrome to encourage the former practices.
Now don't get me wrong, FFXIV didn't become the top dog for the non-Stockholmers just by being so much better than WoW. No, WoW devs decided that they don't want to put in the work any self-respecting player deserves which does not make FFXIV so good as much as it makes WoW a mere graveyard of it's former self. WoW could still be the King for everyone but it chose that this is not a priority. What a joke.
FF14: ARR is a superb game that deserves to be p2p but i doubt WoW has anything to worry about. while WoW was an epic game (still a great game) the reason that it got to 10 million sub was not just quality. it was timing. in fame there is a certain point that if you manage to pass, then even without doing anything you keep getting more and more attention (imagine Pewdiepie). WoW was the first to reach that point. ironically when something reaches that level, others try to imitate. which is why they usually won't get as good as the original and when they do manage to get that good or even better, they won't get that much attention because others are still busy with the original.
Timing made WoW what it is and Time is the only thing that can undo it as well. (or Blizzard itself if they go fully mad). Blizzard is smart about these stuff of course. they didn't unload themselves with WoW Classic. they refined it with TBC while introducing more hype with a well known character, Illidan, until finally make it explode with Arthas when they are sure everything is set. plus they even made a better use of their IP than for example Elder Scrolls Online. Warcraft Series is RTS, so reimagining it as MMORPG feels unique, while in ESO's case, the existence of Skyrim actually hurts ESO for some at least.
my top MMOs: UO,DAOC,WoW,GW2
most of my posts are just my opinions they are not facts,it is the same for you too.
On the other hand, you need not look any further than the FFXIV forums to see an example of "crapping on" people. There are hordes or people BEGGING the devs for scraps info or at least acknowledgement for problems. Square is notoriously bad for their lack of info on games but you cant do that with an MMO, its unprofessional.
This is where my fanboy comment comes from, there are people that will defend this game no matter what even if the devs said they hate you and you can no longer play. I can understand being loyal to a brand, i like KH, but seriously, its sad.
Also, I'm typing this on mobile and trying to avoid a wall of text, I'll list everything out once i get to a computer.
Maybe you were in a coma for the years WoW received no meaningful content in-between expansions, I really don't know. I'm sure as a paying customer it was all made up by interacting with and understanding the community however.
In light of the deliberate, undeniable content droughts by Blizzard to which you seem to have no problem (or are you really saying this never happened? Dear God), even though they're a clear sign of what Blizzard really thinks of its playerbase, the fanboy comment at first aimed at me seems to be more of a reflection of your own twisted reality in relation to WoW's current state.
Even in WoW's glory days you could find the WoW forums full of people BEGGING and SCREAMING for anything and everything. That's a video game forum for you. Find a game with 99% metacritic score and I'll find you that game's official forums full of people talking crap about said game. If you want to argue FFXIV's flaws you should use proof that isn't applicable to WoW (and any other game) too.
The fact is FFXIV puts out more content than WoW, thus the dev support is better where it matters: not talking about the content droughts and fixing issues within a week (which WoW is not exactly famous of LOL) but putting in the effort month after month to provide as much value to the player as the dev team can squeeze out of the budget. Anything else is you being in huge denial sadly.
I like FFXIV and think it's doing great things.
But...
The combat engine is shit and will likely always be shit because it was build on a foundation of shit.. It's slow, clunky, boring, and completely lacking any sort of innovation. As long as that is the case, it will never be a better game than WoW.
High "quality" restaurants aren't healthy either.
Most of the food analogies used here are just not accurate when in comparison to MMOs. However, the context is pretty straight forward.
What is "high quality" in entertainment is entirely subjective. So anyone who takes something so subjective and puts negative labels on people if they don't like what you like, as though it was fact is what is wrong here. (Saying someone IS something derogatory because they say something is better than what someone else thinks is better)
I play FFXIV. I don't play WoW. Why? XIV is better than WoW and I can give you lists of reasons. All of them subjective.
Was thinking "hmmm why did I stop playing that game..?".
And then I remembered what the combat was like.
"Not like in WoW."
Baw haw haw...
GW2 combat is not like WoW, it's still a good combat engine.
Tera combat is not like WoW, it's still a good combat engine
Firefall combat is not like WoW, it's still a good combat engine.
XCOMs combat is not like WoW, it's still a good combat engine and it's even turnbased.
FFXIV 's combat engine is utter shit.
I think FFXIV is a good game with lots of potential. But I agree with the bad combat comments and have since ARR first released.
It's utter crap. The crossbar hotbar was a great innovation for gamepad playing in mmos. But the combat system it supports is non synergistic and not open enough where you can completely whiff a skill. I don't even have a problem with the speed, I actually think it is too fast. Action combat is fine as well as slower traditional based combat. Here is the worst of both worlds.The whole time playing I feel like I am playing whack a mole with the combo system as I repeat 2-4 actions on each button on the gamepad over and over,aka hack n slash. Dragon Age Inquisition took a page from ARR but even there you can whiff stuff like when aiming the wrong direction with the spinning axe move. No team based combos or renkei equals a step back for me.
That said I still come back to it between game breaks hoping the combat will change. I have been wanting that since the inception of ARR.
I included XCOM just because I knew you'd latch onto the "action" nonsense, since that is the go to rebuttal for anyone who is defending FFXIVs combat. Apparently even doing that didn't mitigate your response. XCOM isn't action based and still has a great combat engine because it's a well designed system.
The point is that FFXIVs combat engine sucks and it has nothing to do whether it's action based or not. It's just plain bad. I will give the encounter designers credit, because they take a inherently poor system and make some pretty solid encounters out of it. I'd have loved to seen what they could have did if the game wasn't hamstrung by it's current implementation.
I'd also like to point out that neither GW2 or WoW are "action" based combat systems, they are simply well done tab target systems.
Try stating it a third time, let's see if it becomes true then?
We could latch on to the whole "I'm just giving a shitty opinion" thing you've got going on here but I think we're avoiding a bullet there. We might get more of the same in the worst case.