so this game has "alpha classes"

Timberhick

Deffcon_1 said:

HabitualFrogStomp said:

lol I can tell you right now, there won't be any disguise system in this game, nor will there be a way to frame anyone, or have a second identity. The scope of this small portion of the suggested design is enormous. Even if they did manage to pull it off, and I'll reiterate, it won't get off the concept floor, the chances of it working as intended are practically none.

Only these indy studios have ever even considered or suggested a design like that (no this isn't the first time). AAA studios know better because it would be far too much of a hassle and it's not really a major gameplay element. It ain't happenin, even if these guys got $600 million on kickstart.

Seeing as you can see the future mind giving me the Billion dollar Powerball numbers for next week?

All your posts are based purely on your emotional response to the game and its developers. You have zero information to back up your assertions. Its all hyperbole. Why not ignore this game if its never going to be a thing? Why pay attention to something that wont happen? Why keep posting negative things on a 'dead game walking' project? The only reason to do so is because youre a troll. If you honestly thought this game wasnt going to go anywhere you would just leave and never post anything. Instead you keep posting purely negative things with nothing to back them up. So, why do you keep posting? Its a legitimate question.

And just where is your 'proof'? All you have is the word of some guy and a couple screen captures with maybe a 5 second video.   You do like your hyperbole, either you are a 'serious fan' or you are a 'troll'.  Way to exclude that huge middle where people are allowed to be critical of a game, especially a game with zero proof of anything.  A couple screen captures with maybe a 5 second video does not a game make, yet we have over 15 DJs talking about how awesome this game is.  How half a dozen people have 'figured out' what AAA studios couldn't accomplish.

Fenrial

Hey, I wonder if anyone's replied to my comment yet.. Yikes.

HabitualFrogStomp

Deffcon_1 said:

HabitualFrogStomp said:

lol I can tell you right now, there won't be any disguise system in this game, nor will there be a way to frame anyone, or have a second identity. The scope of this small portion of the suggested design is enormous. Even if they did manage to pull it off, and I'll reiterate, it won't get off the concept floor, the chances of it working as intended are practically none.

Only these indy studios have ever even considered or suggested a design like that (no this isn't the first time). AAA studios know better because it would be far too much of a hassle and it's not really a major gameplay element. It ain't happenin, even if these guys got $600 million on kickstart.

Seeing as you can see the future mind giving me the Billion dollar Powerball numbers for next week?

All your posts are based purely on your emotional response to the game and its developers. You have zero information to back up your assertions. Its all hyperbole. Why not ignore this game if its never going to be a thing? Why pay attention to something that wont happen? Why keep posting negative things on a 'dead game walking' project? The only reason to do so is because youre a troll. If you honestly thought this game wasnt going to go anywhere you would just leave and never post anything. Instead you keep posting purely negative things with nothing to back them up. So, why do you keep posting? Its a legitimate question.

It seems like you're projecting here. It's impossible to have anything more than "an emotional response" to the "game" because we don't have anything real to respond to. At this point, it's either buy into bullshit or you don't. While you've clearly chose to buy in and I haven't, you're not in a position to substantiate your take on things any more than anyone else. So yours is a completely emotional response to the game developers, who you've gotten chummy with. You've got a lot more at stake here than I do, so that's why you've added nothing to the discussion and are just focusing on personal attacks. Some people here are capable of giving an emotionally independent opinion, but you're clearly not one of them.

But I won't question why you keep posting here, the answer to that is pretty obvious. Drone on.

Fenrial

VictoriaRachel said:

Are you aware of the disguise system in this game? There is more about it in this Developer Journal here: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/1308/feature/10271/Identity-Disguises-and-Reputation.html

To be honest I'm quite sceptical about the disguise system, it's very similar in scope to what eve online players have been doing for years with alt accounts. If this mechanic was added to eve today no one in their right mind would use it for it's intended purpose. An alt is untraceable, a disguise is not. There are ways to see through disguises -family members for example- and in game detective stuff to track them down. You bypass all of that by using a disposable alt. So while I do like the idea, I really doubt many will be using it.

Wizbuiz

If this doesnt release soon, and they stop spoon feeding us with worthless info and fake cookies- will need another life too

Grelf

HabitualFrogStomp said:

lol I can tell you right now, there won't be any disguise system in this game, nor will there be a way to frame anyone, or have a second identity. The scope of this small portion of the suggested design is enormous. Even if they did manage to pull it off, and I'll reiterate, it won't get off the concept floor, the chances of it working as intended are practically none.

Only these indy studios have ever even considered or suggested a design like that (no this isn't the first time). AAA studios know better because it would be far too much of a hassle and it's not really a major gameplay element. It ain't happenin, even if these guys got $600 million on kickstart.

It isn't as complex as you might think, Salem/Haven and Hearth already does something similar, you can introduce yourself however you want and tag other people with whatever name you feel like, the only difference is that you don't forget faces there.

Benjola

We have two decades worth of MMORPG history and results data to compare so yes, we as players can somewhat accurately predict how some game mechanics and features will play out.

I've been a gamer since early 80's so here are some hard facts mixed with my own predictions and opinions:

- Player behavior in MMOs never ever turns out the way developers intended, especially in a PVP oriented MMOs, it's an indisputable fact.
I read the hypothetical scenarios that were linked and I must say they sounded silly to me.
As if game developers are way out of touch with the present gamer comunity and how PVPers behave in MMOs.
I see a lot of passion in these devs, they clearly try to make the game they want to play but I see a lot of whishfull thinking as well, the gamers aren't going the think and see the game through your eyes guys, they will try to abuse every single mechanics and feature in the game to gain any advantage in PVP, that's what PVPers do, they don't come to your game for story, they are here to gank, grief and abuse players for their own entertainment and false sense of power, they couldn't care any less about story lines and immersion.

Which brings me to the talent issue at hand.
~ Two decades of MMORPGs show us that PVP and MMORPG don't mix well.
There are not many if at all PVP based MMORPGs that have been very successful or that have survived for very long.
The reasons are many but let's put them all under the 'not fair' umbrella for now, as mentioned in the OP.
So, by having open world PVP in your MMO you are already starting with a handicap, your game is already niche.
And you want to add 'god mode' to the mix?
For only randomly selected small number of players?
Well, good luck with that.
I've heard all the reasons why devs want these tallents in game and none of them sound realistic to me.
What does sound more realistic is people hearing it's a hardcore PVP game with possible 'god mode' and droping the game before they even give it a chance.

Good luck.

muffins89

has the kickstarter even launched yet?  this game has been marketing itself for what seems like an eternity.  by the time this game is finished no one will even care.

HabitualFrogStomp

Amen benjola, those are all striking reasons why the entire foundation of this game (the story) is actually pretty irrelevant. The developers love to provide examples of how players will interact with each other that have absolutely no basis in reality. Players don't actually behave that way, they've never behaved that way, and roleplayers are an extreme minority within any current gaming community. Moreover they actually believe that their mechanics will force people into this antiquated naive playstyle that assumes the entire playerbase is autistic. Nobody will play the game the way they envision, and that means their entire design suddenly doesn't really make any sense. It's actually a lot worse than what AAA developers attempt to do.

Lets just say for a moment, that they actually manage to accomplish half of what they say they will, which is a very generous estimate. The design is focused entirely around talents, and players interacting with players who have talents. Or the soulborn engine doing some stuff with internet magic. Either way, who's gonna care, and why should they care? It won't turn out to be content for anyone (you can only chase the wizard up into the mountains so many times before you stop caring) and people aren't going to be engaged in it simply because you created a world full of the Xmen in a medieval fantasy setting.

It's just a lot of buzz words and no substance.

JeromyWalsh

Benjola said:

Good luck.

Thanks! 

RosutoGenjitsu

HabitualFrogStomp said:

Amen benjola, those are all striking reasons why the entire foundation of this game (the story) is actually pretty irrelevant. The developers love to provide examples of how players will interact with each other that have absolutely no basis in reality. Players don't actually behave that way, they've never behaved that way, and roleplayers are an extreme minority within any current gaming community. Moreover they actually believe that their mechanics will force people into this antiquated naive playstyle that assumes the entire playerbase is autistic. Nobody will play the game the way they envision, and that means their entire design suddenly doesn't really make any sense. It's actually a lot worse than what AAA developers attempt to do.

Lets just say for a moment, that they actually manage to accomplish half of what they say they will, which is a very generous estimate. The design is focused entirely around talents, and players interacting with players who have talents. Or the soulborn engine doing some stuff with internet magic. Either way, who's gonna care, and why should they care? It won't turn out to be content for anyone (you can only chase the wizard up into the mountains so many times before you stop caring) and people aren't going to be engaged in it simply because you created a world full of the Xmen in a medieval fantasy setting.

It's just a lot of buzz words and no substance.

This is just pessimism, you're not giving feedback you're just saying that it's all going to fail miserably, and there's no point in that kind of talk.

Timberhick

RosutoGenjitsu said:

This is just pessimism, you're not giving feedback you're just saying that it's all going to fail miserably, and there's no point in that kind of talk.

So who do you blame if/when it fails?

RosutoGenjitsu

I dont see a reason to blame anyone, the game industry is in dire need of innovation, and anyone doing so i am going to support, especially after ive talked to them and seen it.

Timberhick

What innovation is in CoE that has not either been promised or tried before?

ronmexic0

The OP got banned, oh well at least we have all the epicness of this thread to remember him by.

Maygus

Timberhick said:

What innovation is in CoE that has not either been promised or tried before?

Promised / tried means nothing. It's a mixture of everything and trying to make it successful.

What game (please note singular) has promised all of the features and functions in the past?
Note the game by name and link to it's feature list please.

Timberhick

Sure thang Maygus.  It will take a while because we need to screen shot all of the promises made by SS and see which actually make it.

ArChWind

RosutoGenjitsu said:

HabitualFrogStomp said:

Amen benjola, those are all striking reasons why the entire foundation of this game (the story) is actually pretty irrelevant. The developers love to provide examples of how players will interact with each other that have absolutely no basis in reality. Players don't actually behave that way, they've never behaved that way, and roleplayers are an extreme minority within any current gaming community. Moreover they actually believe that their mechanics will force people into this antiquated naive playstyle that assumes the entire playerbase is autistic. Nobody will play the game the way they envision, and that means their entire design suddenly doesn't really make any sense. It's actually a lot worse than what AAA developers attempt to do.

Lets just say for a moment, that they actually manage to accomplish half of what they say they will, which is a very generous estimate. The design is focused entirely around talents, and players interacting with players who have talents. Or the soulborn engine doing some stuff with internet magic. Either way, who's gonna care, and why should they care? It won't turn out to be content for anyone (you can only chase the wizard up into the mountains so many times before you stop caring) and people aren't going to be engaged in it simply because you created a world full of the Xmen in a medieval fantasy setting.

It's just a lot of buzz words and no substance.

This is just pessimism, you're not giving feedback you're just saying that it's all going to fail miserably, and there's no point in that kind of talk.

Actually he is correct most players will always find the easy route and take it so most will just skip the story or if they are forced to do it will just leave. It may sound like a good idea but hand holding through code is just a bad idea because it removes the very concept of a sandbox.

Examples of how it is suppose to work and how it will work are two completely different concepts and players will make their own routes and interactions and if they can't do it their way they will leave.

Perma death will never work as part of a MMO where people will spend many hours building there characters just to risk loosing them and since there is a 100%  chance through aging most would not even give it a spin . Again it may sound great but the majority of the player base will move on at first death which is most of the games income.


Yes. This game has fail written all over it.

Benjola

I'm all for new weird ideas put in a game and I support clever indi devs, in this particular game though, I can't support the talent system because it doesn't take past player's behavior in consideration.

If it was PVE game, maybe it would work and survive the usual shitstorm created by jelly carebears when the first few 'talented' players show up, but in a PVP game with heavy death penalty?
It's like putting your game on self-destruct right off the bat.

I really hope devs realize this.

SpottyGekko

Creating wonderful and extensive design documents is the easy part. Translating them into a working game is the hard part. That's where every indie project runs into a brick wall.

I've seen countless indie MMO's with laundry-lists of deep, amazing features. The actual games that were produced were a mere shadow of the original design. The DD's then become what the game will be "one day". Except that "one day" never comes...

Grelf

SpottyGekko said:

Creating wonderful and extensive design documents is the easy part. Translating them into a working game is the hard part. That's where every indie project runs into a brick wall.

I've seen countless indie MMO's with laundry-lists of deep, amazing features. The actual games that were produced were a mere shadow of the original design. The DD's then become what the game will be "one day". Except that "one day" never comes...

This is very true. However, developers don't talk like they have nothing so far, from what they say, it seems they already have some significant progress in the development of the game. They have also committed to releasing several tools, a combat video and other things in the future. Ultimately we're taking their word for it, but it wouldn't be very good for themselves to be deliberately deceitful.

Vucar

ArChWind said:

Actually he is correct most players will always find the easy route and take it so most will just skip the story or if they are forced to do it will just leave. It may sound like a good idea but hand holding through code is just a bad idea because it removes the very concept of a sandbox.

Examples of how it is suppose to work and how it will work are two completely different concepts and players will make their own routes and interactions and if they can't do it their way they will leave.

Perma death will never work as part of a MMO where people will spend many hours building there characters just to risk loosing them and since there is a 100%  chance through aging most would not even give it a spin . Again it may sound great but the majority of the player base will move on at first death which is most of the games income.


Yes. This game has fail written all over it.

No one is forced to interact with the story arc. Its like putting a jungle gym with hidden candy inside next to the basketball court: you could play on the jungle gym, it probably will be fun, and hey you might find something neat. If you just want to play basketball, no one's stopping you, so why are you crying about the jungle gym still? 

As for permadeath, your post screams lack of understanding of permadeath in this game, or what it means to "lose" a character. "Dying" to a monster doesn't have the same consequences as being coup de graced by a player, and neither of those necessarily have the same consequences as permadeath. Death has many shades in this game, i suggest you read up on them.

Wizardry

Benjola said:

I'm all for new weird ideas put in a game and I support clever indi devs, in this particular game though, I can't support the talent system because it doesn't take past player's behavior in consideration.

If it was PVE game, maybe it would work and survive the usual shitstorm created by jelly carebears when the first few 'talented' players show up, but in a PVP game with heavy death penalty?
It's like putting your game on self-destruct right off the bat.

I really hope devs realize this.

This has been my concern as well and to be honest as hard as i try i still have not figured this out.I guess i been spending tons of time researching scandals and dangers of Advair to not worry so much about a video game lol.

I don't even know about the assumption of Alpha classes because we first need to know the whole design purpose of this game.In some respects it is nice to know there is a lot to think about in a game when compared to the alternatives "chasing yellow markers" around all game.

I have been around gaming a very long time,i pretty much seen it all since Muds and yet i still can't figure this game out.In the end it may be nothing more than a simplistic system with some good points and some flaws or may be super complex to support a cash shop,many answers need to be uncovered.

I still have to stick to what i first said about this game,no matter how it runs out,we should at least give the developer credit for  trying something different and bringing a breath of fresh air to the genre,if only i could figure out what genre this belongs in lmao.

StaalBurgher

No game has tried these particular features and combinations of features. At best other games have tried them piece-meal, for example Jedi permadeath being tacked onto a mmorpg.

CoE is innovative. They might fail certainly but I see no point in all this cheering for that to happen. [mod edit]

Benjola

StaalBurgher said:

[mod edit]

Oh shut your trap.
I've been waiting for a MMORPG with unusual and 'out of box' features for over a decade now.
If I didn't care about this types of games I wouldn't be here criticizing it.

The fact is that indi developers often get stubbornly stuck on following their 'vision' that they sometimes don't see a flawed mechanic/feature/concept staring them in the face, one that can prove to be fatal for the whole thing.
And maybe because they are busy 24/7 working on their game they don't play other MMOs and are out of touch with the gaming comunity.
That's where we the gamers come in to give feedback and opinions and if devs were smart they would listen and take notes.

So you see, "OP and his henchmen" care much more about the game then all of you cheerleaders put together.