"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
15,000 units for the first 10 minutes of opening sales, for something that has been hyped up for over 3 years is pretty weak IMHO.
Clearly if they would have said they sold 15 in ten minutes Seanmcad would have claimed a success and a victory.
both you and @laserit still dont understand what I am saying.
I have no idea if Oculus sales is a success or a failure I barely even know what those words mean. Nor do I have any idea what is or is not a good sales number. All I am saying is:
---------------------START READ-------------- My educated guess is that Palmer Lucky is not lying AND that the expected sales numbers he is referring is an estimated numbers based off of past sells and the actual number is likely close to the same number HTC Vive posted which is 15,000 in the first 10 mins.
--------------------END READ-----------------
I am NOT saying that palmer Lucky not lying or that those number are significant I am only saying
---------------------START READ-------------- My educated guess is that Palmer Lucky is not lying AND that the expected sales numbers he is referring is an estimated numbers based off of past sells and the actual number is likely close to the same number HTC Vive posted which is 15,000 in the first 10 mins. --------------------END READ-----------------
however just that alone, without even applying any value to it at all appears to be an unreasonable position to take in this thread
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
15,000 units for the first 10 minutes of opening sales, for something that has been hyped up for over 3 years is pretty weak IMHO.
Clearly if they would have said they sold 15 in ten minutes Seanmcad would have claimed a success and a victory.
both you and @laserit still dont understand what I am saying.
I have no idea if Oculus sales is a success or a failure I barely even know what those words mean. Nor do I have any idea what is or is not a good sales number. All I am saying is:
---------------------START READ-------------- My educated guess is that Palmer Lucky is not lying AND that the expected sales numbers he is referring is an estimated numbers based off of past sells and the actual number is likely close to the same number HTC Vive posted which is 15,000 in the first 10 mins.
--------------------END READ-----------------
I am NOT saying that palmer Lucky not lying or that those number are significant I am only saying
---------------------START READ-------------- My educated guess is that Palmer Lucky is not lying AND that the expected sales numbers he is referring is an estimated numbers based off of past sells and the actual number is likely close to the same number HTC Vive posted which is 15,000 in the first 10 mins. --------------------END READ-----------------
however just that alone, without even applying any value to it at all appears to be an unreasonable position to take in this thread
I and most others have never stated that Mr Luckey was lying. We have been stating that he claimed nothing of any value. To have value you must present numbers.
15,000 units for the first 10 minutes of opening sales, for something that has been hyped up for over 3 years is pretty weak IMHO.
Clearly if they would have said they sold 15 in ten minutes Seanmcad would have claimed a success and a victory.
both you and @laserit still dont understand what I am saying.
I have no idea if Oculus sales is a success or a failure I barely even know what those words mean. Nor do I have any idea what is or is not a good sales number. All I am saying is:
---------------------START READ-------------- My educated guess is that Palmer Lucky is not lying AND that the expected sales numbers he is referring is an estimated numbers based off of past sells and the actual number is likely close to the same number HTC Vive posted which is 15,000 in the first 10 mins.
--------------------END READ-----------------
I am NOT saying that palmer Lucky not lying or that those number are significant I am only saying
---------------------START READ-------------- My educated guess is that Palmer Lucky is not lying AND that the expected sales numbers he is referring is an estimated numbers based off of past sells and the actual number is likely close to the same number HTC Vive posted which is 15,000 in the first 10 mins. --------------------END READ-----------------
however just that alone, without even applying any value to it at all appears to be an unreasonable position to take in this thread
I and most others have never stated that Mr Luckey was lying. We have been stating that he claimed nothing of any value. To have value you must present numbers.
Anyways... that dead horse was buried last week.
basically from the start on about 2 weeks ago I have been addressing the comments of: 'he is clearly lying' 'he is making marketing speech' 'he talks like a politician' 'its clearly a supply issue and not a demand issue' 'they clearly have no idea what they are doing' 'they are in general a fuck up'
if what you have to say to me is not related to such comments then in this thread you should avoid repsonding to me because for all intense and purposes you are getting off my point and have nothing of value to add to what I am saying
if you do not have an issue with this statement then I have to ask. DO you have any idea at all whatsoever what my position is? and if you dont then why are you arguing?
---------------------START READ-------------- My educated guess is that Palmer Lucky is not lying AND that the expected sales numbers he is referring is an estimated numbers based off of past sells and the actual number is likely close to the same number HTC Vive posted which is 15,000 in the first 10 mins. --------------------END READ-----------------
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
---------------------START READ-------------- My educated guess is that Palmer Lucky is not lying AND that the expected sales numbers he is referring is an estimated numbers based off of past sells and the actual number is likely close to the same number HTC Vive posted which is 15,000 in the first 10 mins. --------------------END READ-----------------
I believe that Oculus sales in the first ten minutes were nothing to brag about because didn't release numbers.
I believe sales were lower than the HTC because, again.... they didn't release numbers.
There is nothing positive in not releasing numbers. It fuels negative speculation which can hurt sales.
So... What's your theory as to why Oculus hasn't released any numbers?
I'd actually like to know what your educated guess is. You still haven't said.
actually I have several times but I will state it again.
---------------------START READ-------------- My educated guess is that Palmer Lucky is not lying AND that the expected sales numbers he is referring is an estimated numbers based off of past sells and the actual number is likely close to the same number HTC Vive posted which is 15,000 in the first 10 mins. --------------------END READ-----------------
print that, post that, refer to it every time you see my name, that is the position I am taking and its the position I have said more than once.
So you are saying that OR sold 15,000 units? They had logistical trouble with ... 15,000 units.
Palmer Lucky didn't say anything about numbers. He explicated stated that he wouldn't in the article that you yourself linked. But you keep making "educated guesses" about sales numbers anyway - going so far as to say you can't wait until they are released so you can be proven right or wrong.
So now you finally say, 15,000 is the pre-sale number. Just to make that clear. So, you know, in a few months when sales figures finally come to light, you can "call it".
basically from the start on about 2 weeks ago I have been addressing the comments of: 'he is clearly lying' 'he is making marketing speech' 'he talks like a politician' 'its clearly a supply issue and not a demand issue' 'they clearly have no idea what they are doing' 'they are in general a fuck up'
Not exactly.
Replace "he" and "they" with "SEANMCAD" and your getting much closer. Most of us don't care so much about OR or Vive. We do care about the random sewage in our forums.
Taking the 15000 number from the Vive is a stretch in the first place. The only thing I ever heard that favored the Rift over Vive was the first to market angle and they lost quite a bit of the margin there. Almost everyone I know either got the Vive or is waiting for things to calm down, with a couple people preordering both. Do not know anyone who preordered only the Rift.
Not a huge control group so nothing to extrapolate, but probably far more accurate than extrapolating 15k sales for one unit because their competitor that is an existing hardware manufacturer partnered with a large game distributor sold that many. It seems to fit the general feeling I've seen on most forums that people are more interested in and waiting for the Vive. Or, more commonly, just waititng.
This is funny, they were both so worried about the other one beating them to the market that they both rushed it too soon. No Surprise there. I always try. . try at least, to wait until the 2nd generation of a product before purchasing.
basically from the start on about 2 weeks ago I have been addressing the comments of: 'he is clearly lying' 'he is making marketing speech' 'he talks like a politician' 'its clearly a supply issue and not a demand issue' 'they clearly have no idea what they are doing' 'they are in general a fuck up'
Not exactly.
Replace "he" and "they" with "SEANMCAD" and your getting much closer. Most of us don't care so much about OR or Vive. We do care about the random sewage in our forums.
you really really really need to stop replying to me then because you are being part of the problem by replying to this side topic as if you are part of it but then saying that you are not. ignore me if you dont want to talk about what I am saying here.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I'd actually like to know what your educated guess is. You still haven't said.
actually I have several times but I will state it again.
---------------------START READ-------------- My educated guess is that Palmer Lucky is not lying AND that the expected sales numbers he is referring is an estimated numbers based off of past sells and the actual number is likely close to the same number HTC Vive posted which is 15,000 in the first 10 mins. --------------------END READ-----------------
print that, post that, refer to it every time you see my name, that is the position I am taking and its the position I have said more than once.
So you are saying that OR sold 15,000 units? They had logistical trouble with ... 15,000 units.
Palmer Lucky didn't say anything about numbers. He explicated stated that he wouldn't in the article that you yourself linked. But you keep making "educated guesses" about sales numbers anyway - going so far as to say you can't wait until they are released so you can be proven right or wrong.
So now you finally say, 15,000 is the pre-sale number. Just to make that clear. So, you know, in a few months when sales figures finally come to light, you can "call it".
so you DO want to talk about this...ok re-read again what I said. If you read that I am not predicting the future sales nor am I suggesting that 15,000 is a lot or even a little.
---------------------START READ-------------- My educated guess is that Palmer Lucky is not lying AND that the expected sales numbers he is referring is an estimated numbers based off of past sells and the actual number is likely close to the same number HTC Vive posted which is 15,000 in the first 10 mins. --------------------END READ-----------------
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
---------------------START READ-------------- My educated guess is that Palmer Lucky is not lying AND that the expected sales numbers he is referring is an estimated numbers based off of past sells and the actual number is likely close to the same number HTC Vive posted which is 15,000 in the first 10 mins. --------------------END READ-----------------
I believe that Oculus sales in the first ten minutes were nothing to brag about because didn't release numbers.
I believe sales were lower than the HTC because, again.... they didn't release numbers.
There is nothing positive in not releasing numbers. It fuels negative speculation which can hurt sales.
So... What's your theory as to why Oculus hasn't released any numbers?
my theory as to why they havent released numbers is because from an accounting perspective:
1. until you actually have sold the device and the user has it, then its not really a sale yet 2. its better to wait until the quarter is done.
what I dont know is why Samsung has not released its numbers for GearVR.
But you do make a point because Microsoft didnt reveal its sales numbers of Xbox One either. I wonder if it sold out though..I will check. (xbox one did not sell out according to wikipeida)
I do think given that I can still ebay by Dk1 and Dk2 for more than i paid for them and that VR from all vendors sell out pretty much every single time a device goes on sale is a good indicator that Lucky is telling the truth and that they expected numbers are not low but relative standards
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
so you DO want to talk about this...ok re-read again what I said. If you read that I am not predicting the future sales nor am I suggesting that 15,000 is a lot or even a little.
---------------------START READ-------------- My educated guess is that Palmer Lucky is not lying AND that the expected sales numbers he is referring is an estimated numbers based off of past sells and the actual number is likely close to the same number HTC Vive posted which is 15,000 in the first 10 mins. --------------------END READ-----------------
I didn't say anything about future sales either. We've all just been talking about pre-sales, which are over with now, and should be a number recorded for history somewhere - even if it hasn't been released yet.
I will suggest that 15,000 in total pre-sales, which is all that you are estimating, is a laughably low number though. Hell, almost 10,000 got one because they were original backers. Your prediction is rediculous, no matter how you look at it, and it's obvious baiting so, in my educated estimation, you can say "It sold way more than i thought, which is great news" and/or "Look, even you are arguing it sold more, which means it's wildly successful" -- neither of which would be accurate conclusions from the discussion by any means.
Here's a good story. Ouya. They had a wildly successful kickstart campaign - it was fully funded within 8 hours, and at the time was the 5th largest kickstarter project - it pulled in almost 4x the money that Rift did when it was on Kickstarter. They sold out, more often than not (to borrow a phrase). They had a passionate fan base through development. They had a lot of developer support on board, with some pretty popular titles and console exclusives announced.
And it flopped. Miserably. They sold almost 60,000 units through kickstart alone, and did not release sales figures once it went retail. But by all indications, it wasn't much more. The best selling game for Ouya sold 7,000 copies. The best selling RPG for the Android console, the developer reported making a net profit, which is great news. Of $427. Notice the lack of zeroes behind that number. Eventually Ouya was bought by Razor, the hardware canned, and the software cannibalized for Razor's own set-top box.
Now sure, Ouya isn't VR. But you know what - that doesn't matter. It's still a cautionary tale, full of similarities that keep getting echoed about the Rift in particular.
so you DO want to talk about this...ok re-read again what I said. If you read that I am not predicting the future sales nor am I suggesting that 15,000 is a lot or even a little.
---------------------START READ-------------- My educated guess is that Palmer Lucky is not lying AND that the expected sales numbers he is referring is an estimated numbers based off of past sells and the actual number is likely close to the same number HTC Vive posted which is 15,000 in the first 10 mins. --------------------END READ-----------------
....stuff...
lets make this painfully easy.
Do you agree with the statement below or not, if not, then why
---------------------START READ-------------- My educated guess is that Palmer Lucky is not lying AND that the expected sales numbers he is referring is an estimated numbers based off of past sells and the actual number is likely close to the same number HTC Vive posted which is 15,000 in the first 10 mins. --------------------END READ-----------------
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
That pretty much answers the question of if I agree or not, and why or why not.
Haven't been here in a few days. But 70ish new posts regurgitating the same exact and often silly / obtuse lines from him. Just from the few posts that I could bring myself to read. Not referring to you. I get that it's easy to get sucked in. It does not matter how fair or unbiased of an opinion one could make in general on the subject. If it's not inline with his mindset regardless of how fair or neutral it may be, he will ignore it completely and just run in circles.
You can't have a conversation or discussion with him. It's not what he
is after. He's also admitted that. That "He is here to inform people of how wrong they are on VR in every single way." That said it's not really my place to jump in and say anything. Just
shocked every time I see one of these silly posts filled with him
shouting down whoever. Regurgitating the same stuff for years.
Or that same person as per usual ignoring what others say completely and
acting like everyone else is the one who isn't paying attention to the
conversation.
I don't get his angle. Doesn't bother me either. Just saying Troll. paid poster. avid fan. whatever.
What I know . He is a liar. He's claimed to own a DK2 set and got questioned on the set specifically and could not answer the question. It wasn't something you could just look up online. Said his set "was made differently from all others." The poster who caught him is still around and I could probably find that post even if all that's left are people who have quoted it.
He'll at times try to feign being neutral or take a more neutral 'ish stance. Though he's been posting like he does in this very thread for years on this exact subject. VR and Oculus.
Your absolutely right Hulluck. I'm sorry I was feeding the trolls, you are right, I've become part of the problem. I'll stop. Thank you for your post.
I didn't mean it that way I don't think. Just was shocked this drug out for 60-70 more pages after it already drug out for at least that many. Stupid post from me. I might have been a little on edge as well. Surgery recently.Though he isn't here to discuss. He's said that. He is here to INFORM. His words in a different thread. I just remember this crap because it's so absurd at times. However anyone looking at my post history before politics were banned or the political section was up and running. Much worse. Slightly different mindset however far back that is to.
Free to do as you please. Hell for all I know you enjoy running him in circles intentionally and it's me that doesn't get it. Don't apologize to me. Nothing but genuine and humble respect. You and a good few members have always been helpful towards whatever stupid questions I ask. I also know you're well more educated than I, from just observing your posts.
Comments
15,000 units for the first 10 minutes of opening sales, for something that has been hyped up for over 3 years is pretty weak IMHO.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-model3-orders-idUSKCN0X00TJ
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I have no idea if Oculus sales is a success or a failure I barely even know what those words mean. Nor do I have any idea what is or is not a good sales number. All I am saying is:
---------------------START READ--------------
My educated guess is that Palmer Lucky is not lying AND that the expected sales numbers he is referring is an estimated numbers based off of past sells and the actual number is likely close to the same number HTC Vive posted which is 15,000 in the first 10 mins.
--------------------END READ-----------------
I am NOT saying that palmer Lucky not lying or that those number are significant I am only saying
---------------------START READ--------------
My educated guess is that Palmer Lucky is not lying AND that the expected sales numbers he is referring is an estimated numbers based off of past sells and the actual number is likely close to the same number HTC Vive posted which is 15,000 in the first 10 mins.
--------------------END READ-----------------
however just that alone, without even applying any value to it at all appears to be an unreasonable position to take in this thread
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Anyways... that dead horse was buried last week.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
'he is clearly lying'
'he is making marketing speech'
'he talks like a politician'
'its clearly a supply issue and not a demand issue'
'they clearly have no idea what they are doing'
'they are in general a fuck up'
if what you have to say to me is not related to such comments then in this thread you should avoid repsonding to me because for all intense and purposes you are getting off my point and have nothing of value to add to what I am saying
if you do not have an issue with this statement then I have to ask. DO you have any idea at all whatsoever what my position is? and if you dont then why are you arguing?
---------------------START READ--------------
My educated guess is that Palmer Lucky is not lying AND that the expected sales numbers he is referring is an estimated numbers based off of past sells and the actual number is likely close to the same number HTC Vive posted which is 15,000 in the first 10 mins.
--------------------END READ-----------------
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I believe sales were lower than the HTC because, again.... they didn't release numbers.
There is nothing positive in not releasing numbers. It fuels negative speculation which can hurt sales.
So... What's your theory as to why Oculus hasn't released any numbers?
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Palmer Lucky didn't say anything about numbers. He explicated stated that he wouldn't in the article that you yourself linked. But you keep making "educated guesses" about sales numbers anyway - going so far as to say you can't wait until they are released so you can be proven right or wrong.
So now you finally say, 15,000 is the pre-sale number. Just to make that clear. So, you know, in a few months when sales figures finally come to light, you can "call it".
Not exactly.
Replace "he" and "they" with "SEANMCAD" and your getting much closer. Most of us don't care so much about OR or Vive. We do care about the random sewage in our forums.
Not a huge control group so nothing to extrapolate, but probably far more accurate than extrapolating 15k sales for one unit because their competitor that is an existing hardware manufacturer partnered with a large game distributor sold that many. It seems to fit the general feeling I've seen on most forums that people are more interested in and waiting for the Vive. Or, more commonly, just waititng.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
so you DO want to talk about this...ok re-read again what I said. If you read that I am not predicting the future sales nor am I suggesting that 15,000 is a lot or even a little.
---------------------START READ--------------
My educated guess is that Palmer Lucky is not lying AND that the expected sales numbers he is referring is an estimated numbers based off of past sells and the actual number is likely close to the same number HTC Vive posted which is 15,000 in the first 10 mins.
--------------------END READ-----------------
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
1. until you actually have sold the device and the user has it, then its not really a sale yet
2. its better to wait until the quarter is done.
what I dont know is why Samsung has not released its numbers for GearVR.
But you do make a point because Microsoft didnt reveal its sales numbers of Xbox One either. I wonder if it sold out though..I will check. (xbox one did not sell out according to wikipeida)
I do think given that I can still ebay by Dk1 and Dk2 for more than i paid for them and that VR from all vendors sell out pretty much every single time a device goes on sale is a good indicator that Lucky is telling the truth and that they expected numbers are not low but relative standards
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I will suggest that 15,000 in total pre-sales, which is all that you are estimating, is a laughably low number though. Hell, almost 10,000 got one because they were original backers. Your prediction is rediculous, no matter how you look at it, and it's obvious baiting so, in my educated estimation, you can say "It sold way more than i thought, which is great news" and/or "Look, even you are arguing it sold more, which means it's wildly successful" -- neither of which would be accurate conclusions from the discussion by any means.
Here's a good story. Ouya. They had a wildly successful kickstart campaign - it was fully funded within 8 hours, and at the time was the 5th largest kickstarter project - it pulled in almost 4x the money that Rift did when it was on Kickstarter. They sold out, more often than not (to borrow a phrase). They had a passionate fan base through development. They had a lot of developer support on board, with some pretty popular titles and console exclusives announced.
And it flopped. Miserably. They sold almost 60,000 units through kickstart alone, and did not release sales figures once it went retail. But by all indications, it wasn't much more. The best selling game for Ouya sold 7,000 copies. The best selling RPG for the Android console, the developer reported making a net profit, which is great news. Of $427. Notice the lack of zeroes behind that number. Eventually Ouya was bought by Razor, the hardware canned, and the software cannibalized for Razor's own set-top box.
Now sure, Ouya isn't VR. But you know what - that doesn't matter. It's still a cautionary tale, full of similarities that keep getting echoed about the Rift in particular.
Do you agree with the statement below or not, if not, then why
---------------------START READ--------------
My educated guess is that Palmer Lucky is not lying AND that the expected sales numbers he is referring is an estimated numbers based off of past sells and the actual number is likely close to the same number HTC Vive posted which is 15,000 in the first 10 mins.
--------------------END READ-----------------
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Read ....stuff....
That pretty much answers the question of if I agree or not, and why or why not.
You can't have a conversation or discussion with him. It's not what he is after. He's also admitted that. That "He is here to inform people of how wrong they are on VR in every single way." That said it's not really my place to jump in and say anything. Just shocked every time I see one of these silly posts filled with him shouting down whoever. Regurgitating the same stuff for years. Or that same person as per usual ignoring what others say completely and acting like everyone else is the one who isn't paying attention to the conversation.
I don't get his angle. Doesn't bother me either. Just saying Troll. paid poster. avid fan. whatever.
What I know . He is a liar. He's claimed to own a DK2 set and got questioned on the set specifically and could not answer the question. It wasn't something you could just look up online. Said his set "was made differently from all others." The poster who caught him is still around and I could probably find that post even if all that's left are people who have quoted it.
He'll at times try to feign being neutral or take a more neutral 'ish stance. Though he's been posting like he does in this very thread for years on this exact subject. VR and Oculus.
Free to do as you please. Hell for all I know you enjoy running him in circles intentionally and it's me that doesn't get it. Don't apologize to me. Nothing but genuine and humble respect. You and a good few members have always been helpful towards whatever stupid questions I ask. I also know you're well more educated than I, from just observing your posts.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me