But can you tell me why?...thats all I wish to know
The thing is...
1) They are both MMORPGs.
2) They are both owned by SONY.
3) They both used / using revervse engineering.
4) SOE has stated, they do not care about EMUs.
5) SOE CSRs have said it is possible to have an EMU
5) SOE has taken NO action to stop the EQ EMU or SWG EMU teams.
6) SONY is known for bringing IP lawsuits at a drop of a hat...Yet the EQ EMU continues...why?
All I am saying is...The SWG EMU is as Legal as the EQ EMU. Regardless of the tech issuses involved with rebuilding such a game...IT IS STILL VERY MUCH LEGAL.
The question SOE asks is, does emu represent a threat to income. If no, then no action is taken. If yes, then the emu is going down.
Originally posted by LAW! Originally posted by Sago STOP HERE AND READ PLEASE: As most of you know I hate $OE, $LA, and the current state of the game WITH A PASSION. I am not happy spending $1,200.00 and investing over 3900 hours of time playing SWG to have everything i had accomplished and paid for wiped out by the NGE. However, in being an adult I must look at all the facts and draw my conclusions from that. So there is a certain amount of pain and/or sadness I am feeling due to this decision by the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals. Please read on: I really do not understand why people think a SWG EMU will happen? The only chance a SWG EMU has is if it is done in another country. The 8th Circuit Court of Appeals has spoken and they have AFFIRMED (means agreed with) a lower courts ruling that a WoW EMU was illegal. The ruling from the 3 Federal Appeals Court Judges: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/circs/8th/043654p.pdf The above court document, which is the ruling handed down from Judge Smith from the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals, is a Summary Judgement that "AFFIRMED" the ruling from the U.S. District Court. Summary Judgement means: A court order ruling that no factual issues remain to be tried and therefore a cause of action or all causes of action in a complaint can be decided upon certain facts without trial. A summary judgment is based upon a motion by one of the parties that contends that all necessary factual issues are settled or so one-sided they need not be tried. The motion is supported by declarations under oath, excerpts from depositions which are under oath, admissions of fact and other discovery, as well as a legal argument (points and authorities), that argue that there are no triable issues of fact and that the settled facts require a summary judgment for the moving party. The opposing party will respond by counter-declarations and legal arguments attempting to show that there are "triable issues of fact." If it is unclear whether there is a triable issue of fact in any cause of action, then summary judgment must be denied as to that cause of action. The theory behind the summary judgment process is to eliminate the need to try settled factual issues and to decide without trial one or more causes of action in the complaint. The pleading procedures are extremely technical and complicated and are particularly dangerous to the party against whom the motion is made. It appears that the people creating the WoW EMU, Tim Jung and Rob Crittenden, had appealed the lower courts ruling against them to the Federal Appeals court. When they filed the appeal, Blizzards corporate lawyers filed a motion for a Summary Judgement (actually both parties did). After the 3 Judges that read prepared statements and briefs from BOTH parties, the judges GRANTED Blizzards Corporate Lawyers thier Summary Judgement. That meant that Mr. Jung and Mr. Crittenden have not presented anything of any substance that would pursuade the Appeals Court Judges to go forward with thier appeal. This means they were squashed before it ever went to trial. What amazes me is that NO ONE in this tread has read the decision by the Appeals court judges. In this decision it plainly states that Mr. Jung and Mr. Crittenden had circumvented the copyright protection system of the WoW product. Meaning that in the process of what they had or were trying to accomplish they had found a way around the CD Key which is how software is protected from illegal duplication. It is the inability of Mr. Jung and Mr. Crittenden product to be able to identify if the client software that is connecting to their server as a legal or illegal copy. This may only be possible by the software manufacturer as only they know all the CD Keys. HOWEVER, I would venture to say, that even if Mr. Jung and Mr. Crittenden could develope some way to do this, that Blizzard would then be able to sue for monetary damages. Course this is a moot point as Mr. Jung and Mr. Crittenden never got over the first problem with the CD Keys. I do not know why or how any other EMUs are able to function. I was only aware of one, UO or AO which ever one it is. It could be the EMUs are in a differrent country that has different copyright laws (or none at all) and thus these people are able to get away with it. All I know is that IF they are in the USA, they may not be up much longer. I wish this were not so ....
Nice post...
You failed to address two (2) points...
1) Why is OK for EVERQUEST to be Reverse Engineered and not SWG?
2) Why is it that an EVERQUEST EMU is OK and not SWG?
The point here is that what the EQ EMU is doing is completely legal and there is nothing SOE can do about it. If they could take any kind of legal action what so ever...THEY WOULD!!!
Do you think for one moment that SOE would allow even one SUB to go to an EMU? Don't you think, they would just bring a lawsuit and stop the activity? Do you know why the EQ EMU is still up?....
BECAUSE IT IS LEGAL!!!!
I didn't fail at anything. Anyone who wants to live in a delusionary world as if ANY EMU will exist inside the borders of the United States can go right ahead and keep dreaming.
IF this ruling stands then ANY EMU located inside the borders of the United State WILL be brought down.
IF there is an EMU, like you mentioned, and it is located inside the borders of the United States, and IF it is still functioning, it will bebrought down as soon as soon as lawsuits are filed.
The only and I repeat only way you can get around this ruling is ONE - a CD Key does not exist or TWO - the EULA reads differently than Blizzards did. If the later is what currently allows the other EMUs to survive, then you can either expect all game developers to copy Blizzards EULA or they will challenge the legality of the EMU on an IMPLIED approach based on this ruling.
It may be that EMUs do not exist for the other games??? If they do then you paste a link to their websites and articles stating that they DO exist. Show me how I can sign up to get an account.
If you can NOT provide everyone here with PROOF that they exist INSIDE the borders of the United States then I would suggest that you be the adult you are suppose to be and stop this childish behavior. No matter how much you or ANYONE else thinks this ruling means nothing just shows me how naive some people really are.
You seem to enjoy thinking you (or SWG EMU devs) are above the court system or have some kind of immunity. (I wish that was true)
I REALLY REALLY REALLYwish a SWG EMU was possible. Nothing would give me more pleasure than thumbing my nose at $OE in defiance. So instead of you trying to get me to show you how this ruling applies to SWG, why don't YOU show me how it doesn't?
Another possibility is, aside from the EULA that doesn't fully protect the product could be .... $OE Corporate lawyers never thought of what the Blizzard laywers thought of with the CD Key?
But you know in reality, anyone that is mature and that can reason withOUT letting personal feelings get involved can see the implications this ruling WILL have on other EMUs within US borders.
Sago Mactow Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet 6/26/03 - 1/26/06 Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect DFR Councilman Tarq Server
STOP HERE AND READ PLEASE: As most of you know I hate $OE, $LA, and the current state of the game WITH A PASSION. I am not happy spending $1,200.00 and investing over 3900 hours of time playing SWG to have everything i had accomplished and paid for wiped out by the NGE. However, in being an adult I must look at all the facts and draw my conclusions from that. So there is a certain amount of pain and/or sadness I am feeling due to this decision by the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals.
Please read on:
I really do not understand why people think a SWG EMU will happen? The only chance a SWG EMU has is if it is done in another country. The 8th Circuit Court of Appeals has spoken and they have AFFIRMED (means agreed with) a lower courts ruling that a WoW EMU was illegal.
The ruling from the 3 Federal Appeals Court Judges:
The above court document, which is the ruling handed down from Judge Smith from the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals, is a Summary Judgement that "AFFIRMED" the ruling from the U.S. District Court.
Summary Judgement means:
A court order ruling that no factual issues remain to be tried and therefore a cause of action or all causes of action in a complaint can be decided upon certain facts without trial. A summary judgment is based upon a motion by one of the parties that contends that all necessary factual issues are settled or so one-sided they need not be tried. The motion is supported by declarations under oath, excerpts from depositions which are under oath, admissions of fact and other discovery, as well as a legal argument (points and authorities), that argue that there are no triable issues of fact and that the settled facts require a summary judgment for the moving party. The opposing party will respond by counter-declarations and legal arguments attempting to show that there are "triable issues of fact." If it is unclear whether there is a triable issue of fact in any cause of action, then summary judgment must be denied as to that cause of action. The theory behind the summary judgment process is to eliminate the need to try settled factual issues and to decide without trial one or more causes of action in the complaint. The pleading procedures are extremely technical and complicated and are particularly dangerous to the party against whom the motion is made.
It appears that the people creating the WoW EMU, Tim Jung and Rob Crittenden, had appealed the lower courts ruling against them to the Federal Appeals court. When they filed the appeal, Blizzards corporate lawyers filed a motion for a Summary Judgement (actually both parties did). After the 3 Judges that read prepared statements and briefs from BOTH parties, the judges GRANTED Blizzards Corporate Lawyers thier Summary Judgement.
That meant that Mr. Jung and Mr. Crittenden have not presented anything of any substance that would pursuade the Appeals Court Judges to go forward with thier appeal. This means they were squashed before it ever went to trial.
What amazes me is that NO ONE in this tread has read the decision by the Appeals court judges. In this decision it plainly states that Mr. Jung and Mr. Crittenden had circumvented the copyright protection system of the WoW product. Meaning that in the process of what they had or were trying to accomplish they had found a way around the CD Key which is how software is protected from illegal duplication.
It is the inability of Mr. Jung and Mr. Crittenden product to be able to identify if the client software that is connecting to their server as a legal or illegal copy. This may only be possible by the software manufacturer as only they know all the CD Keys.
HOWEVER, I would venture to say, that even if Mr. Jung and Mr. Crittenden could develope some way to do this, that Blizzard would then be able to sue for monetary damages. Course this is a moot point as Mr. Jung and Mr. Crittenden never got over the first problem with the CD Keys.
I do not know why or how any other EMUs are able to function. I was only aware of one, UO or AO which ever one it is. It could be the EMUs are in a differrent country that has different copyright laws (or none at all) and thus these people are able to get away with it. All I know is that IF they are in the USA, they may not be up much longer.
I wish this were not so ....
Nice post...
You failed to address two (2) points...
1) Why is OK for EVERQUEST to be Reverse Engineered and not SWG?
2) Why is it that an EVERQUEST EMU is OK and not SWG?
The point here is that what the EQ EMU is doing is completely legal and there is nothing SOE can do about it. If they could take any kind of legal action what so ever...THEY WOULD!!!
Do you think for one moment that SOE would allow even one SUB to go to an EMU? Don't you think, they would just bring a lawsuit and stop the activity? Do you know why the EQ EMU is still up?....
BECAUSE IT IS LEGAL!!!!
I didn't fail at anything. Anyone who wants to live in a delusionary world as if ANY EMU will exist inside the borders of the United States can go right ahead and keep dreaming.
Regardless of the legal issues here...what is wrong with a sever in Canada or the UK?
IF this ruling stands then ANY EMU located inside the borders of the United State WILL be brought down.
Again...What's wrong with servers in other countries?
IF there is an EMU, like you mentioned, and it is located inside the borders of the United States, and IF it is still functioning, it will be brought down as soon as soon as lawsuits are filed.
Sigh*...You repeat yourself more than me...Why not have servers beyond the US?
The only and I repeat only way you can get around this ruling is ONE - a CD Key does not exist or TWO - the EULA reads differently than Blizzards did. If the later is what currently allows the other EMUs to survive, then you can either expect all game developers to copy Blizzards EULA or they will challenge the legality of the EMU on an IMPLIED approach based on this ruling.
So...EQ EMU dosent violate such standards. If not then why not do the same for SWG EMU?
It may be that EMUs do not exist for the other games??? If they do then you paste a link to their websites and articles stating that they DO exist. Show me how I can sign up to get an account.
If you can NOT provide everyone here with PROOF that they exist INSIDE the borders of the United States then I would suggest that you be the adult you are suppose to be and stop this childish behavior. No matter how much you or ANYONE else thinks this ruling means nothing just shows me how naive some people really are.
Explain why SWG EMU must be based in the US.
You seem to enjoy thinking you (or SWG EMU devs) are above the court system or have some kind of immunity. (I wish that was true)
SWG EMU is not the Only "OUTLAW" on the market...You dont have to go far to find an emulator for nearly every game.
I REALLY REALLY REALLYwish a SWG EMU was possible. Nothing would give me more pleasure that thumbing my nose at $OE in defiance. But instead of you trying to get me to show you how this ruling applies to SWG, why don't YOU show me how it doesn't?
GOOD NEWS...IT IS POSSIBLE...BTW your ruling from the 8th is a TOTALLY different animal.
Another possibility is, aside from the EULA that doesn't fully protect the product could be .... $OE Corporate lawyers never thought of what the Blizzard laywer thought of with the CD Key?
Are still beating the Blizzard Horse?...if SOE could do anything...they would.
But you know in reality, anyone that is mature and that can reason withOUT letting personal feelings get involved can see the implications this ruling WILL have on other EMUs within US borders.
REGARDLESS...WE WILL SEE AND BE ABLE TO PLAY A LEGAL SWG EMU WITHIN THE NEXT 2 YRS...I PROMISE YOU THAT!
See ya online!!!
Try to open up a little more...start thinking along the lines as to how somthing like this IS possible. Rather than saying it is IMPOSSIBLE.
Originally posted by LAW! Originally posted by Spathotan Would you knock it off with the EverQuest comparison? We get the point, youve brought it up in every one of your post in this thread, we know all about it, and you arent the first to spread the word. We also know that EverQuest wasnt completely gutted from the inside out and a shittier game put in its place. With EQ you are dealing with changing A to A. With this SWG EMU you are dealing with Changing C to A and somehow figuring out how to ignore B.
But can you tell me why?...thats all I wish to know
The thing is...
1) They are both MMORPGs.
2) They are both owned by SONY.
3) They both used / using revervse engineering.
4) SOE has stated, they do not care about EMUs.
5) SOE CSRs have said it is possible to have an EMU
5) SOE has taken NO action to stop the EQ EMU or SWG EMU teams.
6) SONY is known for bringing IP lawsuits at a drop of a hat...Yet the EQ EMU continues...why?
All I am saying is...The SWG EMU is as Legal as the EQ EMU. Regardless of the tech issuses involved with rebuilding such a game...IT IS STILL VERY MUCH LEGAL.
At no point in your rantings do you ever make note of Lucasarts/film.
They are not both owned by Sony, the Star Wars IP is owned by Lucasfilm licenced to Sony.
This is the Lucasfilm that tried to sue un-offical Star Wars websites a few years ago.
Originally posted by WoodenDummy Originally posted by LAW! Originally posted by Spathotan Would you knock it off with the EverQuest comparison? We get the point, youve brought it up in every one of your post in this thread, we know all about it, and you arent the first to spread the word. We also know that EverQuest wasnt completely gutted from the inside out and a shittier game put in its place. With EQ you are dealing with changing A to A. With this SWG EMU you are dealing with Changing C to A and somehow figuring out how to ignore B.
But can you tell me why?...thats all I wish to know
The thing is...
1) They are both MMORPGs.
2) They are both owned by SONY.
3) They both used / using revervse engineering.
4) SOE has stated, they do not care about EMUs.
5) SOE CSRs have said it is possible to have an EMU
5) SOE has taken NO action to stop the EQ EMU or SWG EMU teams.
6) SONY is known for bringing IP lawsuits at a drop of a hat...Yet the EQ EMU continues...why?
All I am saying is...The SWG EMU is as Legal as the EQ EMU. Regardless of the tech issuses involved with rebuilding such a game...IT IS STILL VERY MUCH LEGAL.
At no point in your rantings do you ever make note of Lucasarts/film.
They are not both owned by Sony, the Star Wars IP is owned by Lucasfilm licenced to Sony.
This is the Lucasfilm that tried to sue un-offical Star Wars websites a few years ago.
I did address this earier in the thread...try an read it.
Anyhow...The EVERQUEST franchise is still part owned by Faralin Entertainment Corp....Much the same way SWG and LA are connected...
Yet the EQ servers are still up and running....WHY?
Originally posted by LAW! Originally posted by Spathotan Would you knock it off with the EverQuest comparison? We get the point, youve brought it up in every one of your post in this thread, we know all about it, and you arent the first to spread the word. We also know that EverQuest wasnt completely gutted from the inside out and a shittier game put in its place. With EQ you are dealing with changing A to A. With this SWG EMU you are dealing with Changing C to A and somehow figuring out how to ignore B.
But can you tell me why?...thats all I wish to know
The thing is...
1) They are both MMORPGs.
A.Wow take you long to figure that out ?
2) They are both owned by SONY.
B.Refer to answer A
3) They both used / using revervse engineering.
C.Has sony taken the EQ emu to court yet ?
4) SOE has stated, they do not care about EMUs.
D.Got a link ?
5) SOE CSRs have said it is possible to have an EMU
E.We went over this already , Doesn't make it legal .
5) SOE has taken NO action to stop the EQ EMU or SWG EMU teams.
F. Actually didn't they send a warning already ?
6) SONY is known for bringing IP lawsuits at a drop of a hat...Yet the EQ EMU continues...why?
G. Has it had an effect on Eq's Income?
All I am saying is...The SWG EMU is as Legal as the EQ EMU. Regardless of the tech issuses involved with rebuilding such a game...IT IS STILL VERY MUCH LEGAL.
And by what facts do you say this ? Because something exists doesn't mean it is legal , and it also doesn't mean Soe is doing nothing about it . You are almost starting to sound very childish , and Quite annoying .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
LAW, I tried to be nice and civil eariler, but you are either too young or, here it comes, naive to understand how the the grownup world works.
When your arguements come down to saying But But ten times in a row.... you are probably wrong and grasping at straws. Does the concept of an intelluctal property make sense to you? Sure doesnt seem like it from your posts.
But But....
I'm tired of it. And as other posters have said, show us a link to any of these magical emu games you preach of. Even just one, that operates in spite of any lawsuits directed at it. Seriously here.
Do we need to get into a legal debate here? I have found numerous emu servers shut down due to infringment claims, but can you show us one that has won in ANY court in the US? Can you?
Heck, I'll settle for any an emu in any country period. Where's the link so we can see it ourselves?
Put up or shut up here.
Bark bark bark; little doggie, you gonna bite? I'm guessing not, but we will get a 'how can this EQ emu survive even though 'I can't tell you where it is, just trust me' kind of crap that you have spewed.
LAW, I tried to be nice and civil eariler, but you are either too young or, here it comes, naive to understand how the the grownup world works.
I say with 100% confidence that I have a better understanding of the Law and it's application than you young man. You really have no idea who you are talking to or what you are talking about.
When your arguements come down to saying But But ten times in a row.... you are probably wrong and grasping at straws. Does the concept of an intelluctal property make sense to you? Sure doesnt seem like it from your posts.
Regardless...EMUs such as EVERQUEST still are up and running...WHY? Explain please. As far as IP is concerned, the 8th circuit is not the end all be all...and besides that ruling olny applies to that case. It will take another Lawsuit to determine if this infact these two cases are the same. Just because you say it's breaking IP laws, dosent mean it's true. All you have is an opinion with a weak foundation.
But,But....you said it.
I'm tired of it. And as other posters have said, show us a link to any of these magical emu games you preach of. Even just one, that operates in spite of any lawsuits directed at it. Seriously here.
It is clear to me at this point that you my have a problem in the area of reading comprehension or you my have some form of ADD...That is another thread all together...OK, DO THIS...Go get you Mom or Dad and ask them to read you the rest of the thread. It won't take you long to find a "Magical link" to a "Magical emu game"....It's right in front of you Jackass.
Do we need to get into a legal debate here? I have found numerous emu servers shut down due to infringment claims, but can you show us one that has won in ANY court in the US? Can you?
Damn son....READ THE REST OF THE THREAD BEFORE YOU POST AGAIN! this is A LEGAL DEBATE. And yes I have posted links regarding this issue.
Heck, I'll settle for any an emu in any country period. Where's the link so we can see it ourselves?
Can you be anymore of a....Look son,I'm not sure you have the ability to understand this...BUT DO US ALL A FAVOR AND READ THE THREAD. I have posted and reposted this information.
Put up or shut up here.
You first...I have posted alot of diverse information in this thread. All you seem to do is Parrot the same bullshit over and over again.
Bark bark bark; little doggie, you gonna bite? I'm guessing not, but we will get a 'how can this EQ emu survive even though 'I can't tell you where it is, just trust me' kind of crap that you have spewed.
You are one of those kids...Who looks for which way the wind is blowing and follows popular the opinion of others. You do not have the capacity for independent thought nor are any of your narrow views that of your own. I am beginning to wonder if you have ever had an original thought of your own...READ THE THREAD...COME BACK WHEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING MEANINGFUL TO BRING TO THE DISCUSSION... and for goodness sake son, Grow a pair son and stop letting others tell you what to think.
bark...bark...
You still have not told us why is an EQ EMU acceptable and a SWG EMU not. Unless you can tell us this it is pointless for you to say another word.
LAW I have already stated, If you can read, that an EMU in other countries may be possible depending on the laws in those countries. If they exist within the US borders they will be brought down as they are found. You don't want to believe that ..... well that is YOUR problem. NO where have I said the technology doesn't exist and HAVE repeatedly said they would have to be based in a country other than USA.
It appears that all you want to do is argue. So argue with yourself as NO one can have an intelligent discussion with you.
Sago Mactow Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet 6/26/03 - 1/26/06 Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect DFR Councilman Tarq Server
Originally posted by Sago Originally posted by LAW!
LAW I have already stated, If you can read, that an EMU in other countries may be possible depending on the laws in those countries. If they exist within the US borders they will be brought down as they are found. You don't want to believe that ..... well that is YOUR problem. NO where have I said the technology doesn't exist and HAVE repeatedly said they would have to be based in a country other than USA.
It appears that all you want to do is argue. So argue with yourself as NO one can have an intelligent discussion with you.
My problem is not with your statements...
It has been posted over and over again that a SWG EMU will never happen because the US courts would "bring it down"...We don't know this for sure...No one does until it goes to court. I am also telling you it will never go to court if the servers are in another country. We all know this already!
If SOE could stop the EQ EMU they would...This will also be the case with the SWG EMU. SO WHAT IF THE SERVERS ARE IN ANOTHER COUNTRY...WHO REALLY CARES. I think if given the chance, MOST people would play a PR-CU server regardless of where the server is located. The legality of this issue will not be decided by YOU or ME! It is not our place to say it is unlawful.
I challenge anyone to produce any court document that states a "SWG EMU" is illegal...That's right..you can't because it does not exsist.
Besides, Why would you care if the sever is in another country?
Originally posted by LAW! Originally posted by WoodenDummy Originally posted by LAW! Originally posted by Spathotan Would you knock it off with the EverQuest comparison? We get the point, youve brought it up in every one of your post in this thread, we know all about it, and you arent the first to spread the word. We also know that EverQuest wasnt completely gutted from the inside out and a shittier game put in its place. With EQ you are dealing with changing A to A. With this SWG EMU you are dealing with Changing C to A and somehow figuring out how to ignore B.
But can you tell me why?...thats all I wish to know
The thing is...
1) They are both MMORPGs.
2) They are both owned by SONY.
3) They both used / using revervse engineering.
4) SOE has stated, they do not care about EMUs.
5) SOE CSRs have said it is possible to have an EMU
5) SOE has taken NO action to stop the EQ EMU or SWG EMU teams.
6) SONY is known for bringing IP lawsuits at a drop of a hat...Yet the EQ EMU continues...why?
All I am saying is...The SWG EMU is as Legal as the EQ EMU. Regardless of the tech issuses involved with rebuilding such a game...IT IS STILL VERY MUCH LEGAL.
At no point in your rantings do you ever make note of Lucasarts/film.
They are not both owned by Sony, the Star Wars IP is owned by Lucasfilm licenced to Sony.
This is the Lucasfilm that tried to sue un-offical Star Wars websites a few years ago.
I did address this earier in the thread...try an read it.
Anyhow...The EVERQUEST franchise is still part owned by Faralin Entertainment Corp....Much the same way SWG and LA are connected...
Yet the EQ servers are still up and running....WHY?
You didn't address it at all, so stop posting the same useless crap over and over again. LA have been known to be very trigger happy when it somes to people using their IP.
blah blah blah "There is a EQ EMU so it must be ok blah blah blah". Are you 10 or something?
Originally posted by LAW! The legality of this issue will not be decided by YOU or ME! It is not our place to say it is unlawful.
Lol, nice set of morals there. Theft isn't that hard to determine.
Why not get permission from SOE/LA to build an emulator?
Morallity is a Point of View my friend. What you consider wrong, may be completly acceptable to others. Besides...Morals have little impact on the Law.
In most countries it is still Lawful to beat you Wife...Is beating ones spouse moral?
You didn't address it at all, so stop posting the same useless crap over and over again. LA have been known to be very trigger happy when it somes to people using their IP.
blah blah blah "There is a EQ EMU so it must be ok blah blah blah". Are you 10 or something?
Really, "Trigger happy" huh...Show me 3 cases where LA has gone after anyone over an IP matter...If they are so "Trigger Happy" as you put it, you will no problem proving your point to us.
BTW...I am most likley old enough to be your Daddy son. Hell, I may be your Father for all we know.
You didn't address it at all, so stop posting the same useless crap over and over again. LA have been known to be very trigger happy when it somes to people using their IP.
blah blah blah "There is a EQ EMU so it must be ok blah blah blah". Are you 10 or something?
Really, "Trigger happy" huh...Show me 3 cases where LA has gone after anyone over an IP matter...If they are so "Trigger Happy" as you put it, you will no problem proving your point to us.
BTW...I am most likley old enough to be your Daddy son. Hell, I may be your Father for all we know.
Yeah I think I can be sure you're not my dad.
George Lucas and his team of Lawyers have shut down thousands of fan sites he went after sites featuring fan fiction. He is well known for this and has garnered a lot of bad press because of it. It's his IP not ours.
If you don't know this, or can't be bothered to find out about it then you know very little about the law that you keep posting "facts" about.
You can wish and post as many "facts" as you want, the SWG EMU is on very lose ground because they are messing with a very well known IP and making a connection with the EQ EMU has little to do with it.
George Lucas and his team of Lawyers have shut down thousands of fan sites he went after sites featuring fan fiction. He is well known for this and has garnered a lot of bad press because of it. It's his IP not ours.
If you don't know this, or can't be bothered to find out about it then you know very little about the law that you keep posting "facts" about.
You can wish and post as many "facts" as you want, the SWG EMU is on very lose ground because they are messing with a very well known IP and making a connection with the EQ EMU has little to do with it.
Thousands of cases....Again, I ask you to Show us 3 such cases where IP was the main issue. If in fact what you say is true you should be able to show us hundreds more. If you are full of shit, I doubt you will find even 3.
Show us all the "bad press" from the evil Mr. Lucas...PLEASE!
I cant believe people are still arguing this. SOE and LEC cant sue anyone over it now. Thanks to Smedley and his big mouth they have no legal stance anymore. Smedley gave them permission with his post saying he would hire them if they succeeded.
Doesnt matter if LEC or SOE goes after someone making an EMU. All the defense has to say is "Your honor I would like to submit into evidence the statement made by Smedley, President and CEO of SOE. The developers of SWG. He not only gives them permission to make an EMU but also says he will hire them if they succeed."
Since when does he have any say over what can and can't be done with the Star Wars IP? It's not about the code, it's about what Lucas would have to say about the StarWars IP being used. He has made attemps in the the past to shut down profit and non-profit uses of the StarWars IP.
Ok. Without engaging in the obvious "we'll bust out our lawyers and sue people" rhetoric let me be blunt - if someone can write a SWG server emulator that's any good please apply for a job here because you have to be pretty damn good. You also better be able to know SQL pretty well and have an oracle database and a ton of other important stuff. This emulator stuff is nothing more than a hobby for some really smart people. You don't seriously think we're worried about this do you (and I mean that in a very positive way btw)? I take it as the ultimate compliment. Now, if some genius ever actually pulled it off.. well that would be another matter entirely. In EverQuest a couple of really smart guys made something called ShowEQ which basically showed off a bunch of stuff we didn't intend for players to see. I ended up hiring the key developer of that program. He's a really smart programmer named Roy Eltham. He actually broke our encryption. He's still here. Smed
Is this the quote you're refering to? I don't see any statement giving explicit permission to steal SWG's code.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Originally posted by LAW! Then...How can the EQ EMU be possible??? why has SOE done nothing to stop swgemu? I hear that a playable PRE-CU (pub 12.1) game could be out as soon as Q4 2007. It appears that SOE is so arrogant to think that the NGE is better and that no one will want to play an EMU. They let the EQ EMU go with it....WHY? My point is, that the EMU people are already "tampering" with the code and SOE knows about it and does nothing to stop them. I dont think they even care. The word is that the EMU is not illegal so long they dont make money from the project. This is not the first time someone has developed an EMU and SWG wont be the last. The only way I see this project failing is if SOE comes out with pre-CU servers and the project loses community support. JUST LOOK AT THE EQ EMU...Everquest is owned by SOE. If it works for EQ it can work for SWG!
Just my opinion...flame on FANBOYZ!!!
SWG Emu have nothing to show to prove they are actually working on something. It's just a couple kids with an ego trip.
Originally posted by WoodenDummy Since when does he have any say over what can and can't be done with the Star Wars IP? It's not about the code, it's about what Lucas would have to say about the StarWars IP being used. He has made attemps in the the past to shut down profit and non-profit uses of the StarWars IP.
Because Smedley is the President and CEO of the guys developing the game in question. Who owns the IP doesnt matter here. This isnt about copying or stealing Star Wars. Its about recreating an older version of one game. IP doesnt enter into it. It could have been Barney Wars: Galaxies or Tomb Raider: Galaxy Divided.
IP isnt the issue here and any defense attorney, even an ambulance chaser, can see this and use it.
How do I know? Because I have seen LEC go after people using their IP. And they are fast. One case was a guy designing maps in UT using scenes from the movies. They tried to shut him the moment they knew he was around. And that is the point. The moment they find out about it they go after them. They dont wait. They charge headlong into it. And they havent even tried to shut one of these teams down.
EDIT: On a side note about the guy making maps in UT. He never quit doing what he was doing. From the news I read LEC got told by a judge it was akin to a schoolkid drawing a picture of Luke or a TIE Fighter. So they had no case. If they are going to sue a fan for making free maps to play on then they would have to sue every single person out there who has done any kind of fanart before.
Originally posted by LAW! Morallity is a Point of View my friend. What you consider wrong, may be completly acceptable to others.
Lol. Just to clarify, you're ok with being a thief.
Yea, this is the type of people that are not only trying to get the word out on this emu shit, but are also running that site. Cocky little smartasses that are above the law and better than the rest. They all must be hackers, couldnt make it as a REAL programmer so they gotta steal shit and call it their own after "changing" a few things.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now." Boba Fett
Not much of a hacker but if a SWG PreCU emu did make its way to the public - I'd host a private one for myself and guildmates with no charge. If and when an order came down upon my doorstep - I would pull the plug. I am not here to pretend that I am holier than thou. I have a few mp3's, video clips and such that I didn't purchase. I also have a set of cds for a game I once paid for and enjoyed but was deprived of without being asked. No suitable alternative was provided in my opinion - and SOE clearly knows that I would pay to play on a PreCU server or even buy the software if they provided it for home use ala NWN2. Does this make it legal? No. But when dealing with a corporate entity that questionably took my time and investment away from me - I have little sympathy nor compelling feelings to do right by them.
Those are my thoughts and probably the same as quite a few others. We would run the software for ourselves - not for the glory of doing so but to get back what was taken - if only in a semipermanent status. As for those gloryhounds at SWGemu - their own overt egos will be their downfall.
Originally posted by matraque Originally posted by LAW!
Then...How can the EQ EMU be possible??? why has SOE done nothing to stop swgemu? I hear that a playable PRE-CU (pub 12.1) game could be out as soon as Q4 2007. It appears that SOE is so arrogant to think that the NGE is better and that no one will want to play an EMU. They let the EQ EMU go with it....WHY? My point is, that the EMU people are already "tampering" with the code and SOE knows about it and does nothing to stop them. I dont think they even care. The word is that the EMU is not illegal so long they dont make money from the project. This is not the first time someone has developed an EMU and SWG wont be the last. The only way I see this project failing is if SOE comes out with pre-CU servers and the project loses community support. JUST LOOK AT THE EQ EMU...Everquest is owned by SOE. If it works for EQ it can work for SWG!
Just my opinion...flame on FANBOYZ!!!
SWG Emu have nothing to show to prove they are actually working on something. It's just a couple kids with an ego trip.
Comments
But can you tell me why?...thats all I wish to know
The thing is...
1) They are both MMORPGs.
2) They are both owned by SONY.
3) They both used / using revervse engineering.
4) SOE has stated, they do not care about EMUs.
5) SOE CSRs have said it is possible to have an EMU
5) SOE has taken NO action to stop the EQ EMU or SWG EMU teams.
6) SONY is known for bringing IP lawsuits at a drop of a hat...Yet the EQ EMU continues...why?
All I am saying is...The SWG EMU is as Legal as the EQ EMU. Regardless of the tech issuses involved with rebuilding such a game...IT IS STILL VERY MUCH LEGAL.
The question SOE asks is, does emu represent a threat to income. If no, then no action is taken. If yes, then the emu is going down.
Nice post...
You failed to address two (2) points...
1) Why is OK for EVERQUEST to be Reverse Engineered and not SWG?
2) Why is it that an EVERQUEST EMU is OK and not SWG?
The point here is that what the EQ EMU is doing is completely legal and there is nothing SOE can do about it. If they could take any kind of legal action what so ever...THEY WOULD!!!
Do you think for one moment that SOE would allow even one SUB to go to an EMU? Don't you think, they would just bring a lawsuit and stop the activity? Do you know why the EQ EMU is still up?....
BECAUSE IT IS LEGAL!!!!
I didn't fail at anything. Anyone who wants to live in a delusionary world as if ANY EMU will exist inside the borders of the United States can go right ahead and keep dreaming.
IF this ruling stands then ANY EMU located inside the borders of the United State WILL be brought down.
IF there is an EMU, like you mentioned, and it is located inside the borders of the United States, and IF it is still functioning, it will be brought down as soon as soon as lawsuits are filed.
The only and I repeat only way you can get around this ruling is ONE - a CD Key does not exist or TWO - the EULA reads differently than Blizzards did. If the later is what currently allows the other EMUs to survive, then you can either expect all game developers to copy Blizzards EULA or they will challenge the legality of the EMU on an IMPLIED approach based on this ruling.
It may be that EMUs do not exist for the other games??? If they do then you paste a link to their websites and articles stating that they DO exist. Show me how I can sign up to get an account.
If you can NOT provide everyone here with PROOF that they exist INSIDE the borders of the United States then I would suggest that you be the adult you are suppose to be and stop this childish behavior. No matter how much you or ANYONE else thinks this ruling means nothing just shows me how naive some people really are.
You seem to enjoy thinking you (or SWG EMU devs) are above the court system or have some kind of immunity. (I wish that was true)
I REALLY REALLY REALLY wish a SWG EMU was possible. Nothing would give me more pleasure than thumbing my nose at $OE in defiance. So instead of you trying to get me to show you how this ruling applies to SWG, why don't YOU show me how it doesn't?
Another possibility is, aside from the EULA that doesn't fully protect the product could be .... $OE Corporate lawyers never thought of what the Blizzard laywers thought of with the CD Key?
But you know in reality, anyone that is mature and that can reason withOUT letting personal feelings get involved can see the implications this ruling WILL have on other EMUs within US borders.
Sago Mactow
Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
6/26/03 - 1/26/06
Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
DFR Councilman
Tarq Server
Try to open up a little more...start thinking along the lines as to how somthing like this IS possible. Rather than saying it is IMPOSSIBLE.
tell me...IS A SWG EMU IMPOSSIBLE?
But can you tell me why?...thats all I wish to know
The thing is...
1) They are both MMORPGs.
2) They are both owned by SONY.
3) They both used / using revervse engineering.
4) SOE has stated, they do not care about EMUs.
5) SOE CSRs have said it is possible to have an EMU
5) SOE has taken NO action to stop the EQ EMU or SWG EMU teams.
6) SONY is known for bringing IP lawsuits at a drop of a hat...Yet the EQ EMU continues...why?
All I am saying is...The SWG EMU is as Legal as the EQ EMU. Regardless of the tech issuses involved with rebuilding such a game...IT IS STILL VERY MUCH LEGAL.
At no point in your rantings do you ever make note of Lucasarts/film.
They are not both owned by Sony, the Star Wars IP is owned by Lucasfilm licenced to Sony.
This is the Lucasfilm that tried to sue un-offical Star Wars websites a few years ago.
But can you tell me why?...thats all I wish to know
The thing is...
1) They are both MMORPGs.
2) They are both owned by SONY.
3) They both used / using revervse engineering.
4) SOE has stated, they do not care about EMUs.
5) SOE CSRs have said it is possible to have an EMU
5) SOE has taken NO action to stop the EQ EMU or SWG EMU teams.
6) SONY is known for bringing IP lawsuits at a drop of a hat...Yet the EQ EMU continues...why?
All I am saying is...The SWG EMU is as Legal as the EQ EMU. Regardless of the tech issuses involved with rebuilding such a game...IT IS STILL VERY MUCH LEGAL.
At no point in your rantings do you ever make note of Lucasarts/film.
They are not both owned by Sony, the Star Wars IP is owned by Lucasfilm licenced to Sony.
This is the Lucasfilm that tried to sue un-offical Star Wars websites a few years ago.
I did address this earier in the thread...try an read it.
Anyhow...The EVERQUEST franchise is still part owned by Faralin Entertainment Corp....Much the same way SWG and LA are connected...
Yet the EQ servers are still up and running....WHY?
But can you tell me why?...thats all I wish to know
The thing is...
1) They are both MMORPGs.
A.Wow take you long to figure that out ?
2) They are both owned by SONY.
B.Refer to answer A
3) They both used / using revervse engineering.
C.Has sony taken the EQ emu to court yet ?
4) SOE has stated, they do not care about EMUs.
D.Got a link ?
5) SOE CSRs have said it is possible to have an EMU
E.We went over this already , Doesn't make it legal .
5) SOE has taken NO action to stop the EQ EMU or SWG EMU teams.
F. Actually didn't they send a warning already ?
6) SONY is known for bringing IP lawsuits at a drop of a hat...Yet the EQ EMU
continues...why?
G. Has it had an effect on Eq's Income?
All I am saying is...The SWG EMU is as Legal as the EQ EMU. Regardless of the tech issuses involved with rebuilding such a game...IT IS STILL VERY MUCH LEGAL.
And by what facts do you say this ? Because something exists doesn't mean it is legal , and it also doesn't mean Soe is doing nothing about it . You are almost starting to sound very childish , and Quite annoying .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
LAW, I tried to be nice and civil eariler, but you are either too young or, here it comes, naive to understand how the the grownup world works.
When your arguements come down to saying But But ten times in a row.... you are probably wrong and grasping at straws. Does the concept of an intelluctal property make sense to you? Sure doesnt seem like it from your posts.
But But....
I'm tired of it. And as other posters have said, show us a link to any of these magical emu games you preach of. Even just one, that operates in spite of any lawsuits directed at it. Seriously here.
Do we need to get into a legal debate here? I have found numerous emu servers shut down due to infringment claims, but can you show us one that has won in ANY court in the US? Can you?
Heck, I'll settle for any an emu in any country period. Where's the link so we can see it ourselves?
Put up or shut up here.
Bark bark bark; little doggie, you gonna bite? I'm guessing not, but we will get a 'how can this EQ emu survive even though 'I can't tell you where it is, just trust me' kind of crap that you have spewed.
bark...bark...
You still have not told us why is an EQ EMU acceptable and a SWG EMU not. Unless you can tell us this it is pointless for you to say another word.
BTW...If you don't like the thread...don't post.
LAW I have already stated, If you can read, that an EMU in other countries may be possible depending on the laws in those countries. If they exist within the US borders they will be brought down as they are found. You don't want to believe that ..... well that is YOUR problem. NO where have I said the technology doesn't exist and HAVE repeatedly said they would have to be based in a country other than USA.
It appears that all you want to do is argue. So argue with yourself as NO one can have an intelligent discussion with you.
Sago Mactow
Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
6/26/03 - 1/26/06
Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
DFR Councilman
Tarq Server
LAW I have already stated, If you can read, that an EMU in other countries may be possible depending on the laws in those countries. If they exist within the US borders they will be brought down as they are found. You don't want to believe that ..... well that is YOUR problem. NO where have I said the technology doesn't exist and HAVE repeatedly said they would have to be based in a country other than USA.
It appears that all you want to do is argue. So argue with yourself as NO one can have an intelligent discussion with you.
My problem is not with your statements...
It has been posted over and over again that a SWG EMU will never happen because the US courts would "bring it down"...We don't know this for sure...No one does until it goes to court. I am also telling you it will never go to court if the servers are in another country. We all know this already!
If SOE could stop the EQ EMU they would...This will also be the case with the SWG EMU. SO WHAT IF THE SERVERS ARE IN ANOTHER COUNTRY...WHO REALLY CARES. I think if given the chance, MOST people would play a PR-CU server regardless of where the server is located. The legality of this issue will not be decided by YOU or ME! It is not our place to say it is unlawful.
I challenge anyone to produce any court document that states a "SWG EMU" is illegal...That's right..you can't because it does not exsist.
Besides, Why would you care if the sever is in another country?
But can you tell me why?...thats all I wish to know
The thing is...
1) They are both MMORPGs.
2) They are both owned by SONY.
3) They both used / using revervse engineering.
4) SOE has stated, they do not care about EMUs.
5) SOE CSRs have said it is possible to have an EMU
5) SOE has taken NO action to stop the EQ EMU or SWG EMU teams.
6) SONY is known for bringing IP lawsuits at a drop of a hat...Yet the EQ EMU continues...why?
All I am saying is...The SWG EMU is as Legal as the EQ EMU. Regardless of the tech issuses involved with rebuilding such a game...IT IS STILL VERY MUCH LEGAL.
At no point in your rantings do you ever make note of Lucasarts/film.
They are not both owned by Sony, the Star Wars IP is owned by Lucasfilm licenced to Sony.
This is the Lucasfilm that tried to sue un-offical Star Wars websites a few years ago.
I did address this earier in the thread...try an read it.
Anyhow...The EVERQUEST franchise is still part owned by Faralin Entertainment Corp....Much the same way SWG and LA are connected...
Yet the EQ servers are still up and running....WHY?
You didn't address it at all, so stop posting the same useless crap over and over again. LA have been known to be very trigger happy when it somes to people using their IP.
blah blah blah "There is a EQ EMU so it must be ok blah blah blah". Are you 10 or something?
Lol, nice set of morals there. Theft isn't that hard to determine.
Why not get permission from SOE/LA to build an emulator?
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Lol, nice set of morals there. Theft isn't that hard to determine.
Why not get permission from SOE/LA to build an emulator?
Morallity is a Point of View my friend. What you consider wrong, may be completly acceptable to others. Besides...Morals have little impact on the Law.
In most countries it is still Lawful to beat you Wife...Is beating ones spouse moral?
Why not get Permission?...Why indeed?
You didn't address it at all, so stop posting the same useless crap over and over again. LA have been known to be very trigger happy when it somes to people using their IP.
blah blah blah "There is a EQ EMU so it must be ok blah blah blah". Are you 10 or something?
Really, "Trigger happy" huh...Show me 3 cases where LA has gone after anyone over an IP matter...If they are so "Trigger Happy" as you put it, you will no problem proving your point to us.
BTW...I am most likley old enough to be your Daddy son. Hell, I may be your Father for all we know.
BTW...I am most likley old enough to be your Daddy son. Hell, I may be your Father for all we know.
Yeah I think I can be sure you're not my dad.
George Lucas and his team of Lawyers have shut down thousands
of fan sites he went after sites
featuring fan fiction. He is well known for this and
has garnered a lot of bad press because of it. It's his IP not ours.
If you don't know this, or can't be bothered to find out about it then you know very little about the law that you keep posting "facts" about.
You can wish and post as many "facts" as you want, the SWG EMU is on very lose ground because they are messing with a very well known IP and making a connection with the EQ EMU has little to do with it.
Thousands of cases....Again, I ask you to Show us 3 such cases where IP was the main issue. If in fact what you say is true you should be able to show us hundreds more. If you are full of shit, I doubt you will find even 3.
Show us all the "bad press" from the evil Mr. Lucas...PLEASE!
Lol. Just to clarify, you're ok with being a thief.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Doesnt matter if LEC or SOE goes after someone making an EMU. All the defense has to say is "Your honor I would like to submit into evidence the statement made by Smedley, President and CEO of SOE. The developers of SWG. He not only gives them permission to make an EMU but also says he will hire them if they succeed."
Once that is done the case would be thrown out.
Kai
Is this the quote you're refering to? I don't see any statement giving explicit permission to steal SWG's code.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
eqnext.wikia.com
IP isnt the issue here and any defense attorney, even an ambulance chaser, can see this and use it.
How do I know? Because I have seen LEC go after people using their IP. And they are fast. One case was a guy designing maps in UT using scenes from the movies. They tried to shut him the moment they knew he was around. And that is the point. The moment they find out about it they go after them. They dont wait. They charge headlong into it. And they havent even tried to shut one of these teams down.
EDIT: On a side note about the guy making maps in UT. He never quit doing what he was doing. From the news I read LEC got told by a judge it was akin to a schoolkid drawing a picture of Luke or a TIE Fighter. So they had no case. If they are going to sue a fan for making free maps to play on then they would have to sue every single person out there who has done any kind of fanart before.
Kai
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
Not much of a hacker but if a SWG PreCU emu did make its way to the public - I'd host a private one for myself and guildmates with no charge. If and when an order came down upon my doorstep - I would pull the plug. I am not here to pretend that I am holier than thou. I have a few mp3's, video clips and such that I didn't purchase. I also have a set of cds for a game I once paid for and enjoyed but was deprived of without being asked. No suitable alternative was provided in my opinion - and SOE clearly knows that I would pay to play on a PreCU server or even buy the software if they provided it for home use ala NWN2. Does this make it legal? No. But when dealing with a corporate entity that questionably took my time and investment away from me - I have little sympathy nor compelling feelings to do right by them.
Those are my thoughts and probably the same as quite a few others. We would run the software for ourselves - not for the glory of doing so but to get back what was taken - if only in a semipermanent status. As for those gloryhounds at SWGemu - their own overt egos will be their downfall.
trust me, they ARE working.