First the people at EMU have no shot in hell of making a EMU. I belive them to be a bunch of kids acting like gods on there gay web site. If you dont read the up dates heres some info. the "devs" at emu have released the code to the public begging for help they have no clue what they are doing. Smed said him self if they can get a server running that holds more then 5 people he will hire them. SOE aint worried.
From what I see here, the best argument for the legality of a swgemu would be that sony hasn't shut them down yet. And that there are some other emus out there; although still waiting for a link to one of them or even just the site name.
Let's assume that the emuserver works great. Not buggy, no problem with the servers or bandwidth or anything. The emu server would have the effect of some people leaving the SWG game and switching to the emuserver. As soon as one payment/donation is made to the emuserver, that's theft of the copyrighted materials. Using copyrighted materials to promote a product, or in a product that generates revenue without obtaining the right to do so is theft. That's the entire point of the copyright laws in the first place. Otherwise anyone could make a spiderman comic, or a harry potter book... Having a comic book museum and generating revenue off of others IP is not the same as drawing spiderman on a tube of toothpaste in order to boost sales.
I'm not really familiar with how that would work out from the actual code part of the game; there are mods and whatnot that people have made for various games as add-ons to the original. But I can't recall any one of them being sold or requiring a donation, every last one I've seen is freeware.There may be some sites that require a monetary doantion for joining the site, but I havent seen them (but I've never been a huge mod fan myself, maybe someone out there can correct me if I'm wrong on that).
And let's not try to say 'Do it in some foreign country'. Remember that their are treaties between almost every industrialized nation that prevent patent and copyright theft. People in Argentina don't want people in the US to steal their ideas just as much as we don't want someone in Poland stealing ones from the US.
If someone manages to get an emu going and keeps it to themselves, good for them. But I just can't believe there will be a public emu that John Q. Public can log onto. It'd be a small group of people using it for their own play, not something out in the open.
Ok. Without engaging in the obvious "we'll bust out our lawyers and sue people" rhetoric let me be blunt - if someone can write a SWG server emulator that's any good please apply for a job here because you have to be pretty damn good. You also better be able to know SQL pretty well and have an oracle database and a ton of other important stuff. This emulator stuff is nothing more than a hobby for some really smart people. You don't seriously think we're worried about this do you (and I mean that in a very positive way btw)? I take it as the ultimate compliment. Now, if some genius ever actually pulled it off.. well that would be another matter entirely. In EverQuest a couple of really smart guys made something called ShowEQ which basically showed off a bunch of stuff we didn't intend for players to see. I ended up hiring the key developer of that program. He's a really smart programmer named Roy Eltham. He actually broke our encryption. He's still here. Smed
Is this the quote you're refering to? I don't see any statement giving explicit permission to steal SWG's code.
People who are going to put you in prison for "stealing" their IP don't usually make standing offers of employment. Indeed, they actually hired somebody (Roy Eltham) who reverse engineered their code! (We are all assuming, of course, that Mr. Eltham is not still an employee of SOE against his will. ) Therefore, Smedley's statement about the SWG emulator, and his actions with regard to Mr. Eltham, could quite probably be construed by a court of law as having given blanket permission.
Now the next argument is that it is Lucasfilm's IP. Granted. However, its use within the framework of an MMO (game) solely rest with Sony Online Entertainment. That's why it is licensed, not just given. Therefore, it would seem to me that it would fall within the realm of SOE, not Lucasfilm, to enforce any copyright on the IP, and to pursue violators. Lucasfilm pursued the fan sites because they were violating the film-based IP. An SWG emulator would be violating (if even) the game-based IP, for which SOE holds the license.
(I'm not a lawyer, and I don't even play on on TV. This is all just reasoned conjecture.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------- As ye SOE, so shall ye weep.
Originally posted by Vexin Originally posted by IcoGames
ROFL
Ok. Without engaging in the obvious "we'll bust out our lawyers and sue people" rhetoric let me be blunt - if someone can write a SWG server emulator that's any good please apply for a job here because you have to be pretty damn good. You also better be able to know SQL pretty well and have an oracle database and a ton of other important stuff. This emulator stuff is nothing more than a hobby for some really smart people. You don't seriously think we're worried about this do you (and I mean that in a very positive way btw)? I take it as the ultimate compliment. Now, if some genius ever actually pulled it off.. well that would be another matter entirely. In EverQuest a couple of really smart guys made something called ShowEQ which basically showed off a bunch of stuff we didn't intend for players to see. I ended up hiring the key developer of that program. He's a really smart programmer named Roy Eltham. He actually broke our encryption. He's still here. Smed
Is this the quote you're refering to? I don't see any statement giving explicit permission to steal SWG's code.
People who are going to put you in prison for "stealing" their IP don't usually make standing offers of employment. Indeed, they actually hired somebody (Roy Eltham) who reverse engineered their code! (We are all assuming, of course, that Mr. Eltham is not still an employee of SOE against his will. ) Therefore, Smedley's statement about the SWG emulator, and his actions with regard to Mr. Eltham, could quite probably be construed by a court of law as having given blanket permission.
Lawsuits are still just voluntary acts. Put yourself in the role of someone in high position. You get hundreds of job applications. But do go look at game company job postings: "must demonstrate past experience on completed projects". If you go to a company by doing something interesting with their own product, that counts for something. It actually counts for a lot.
And on the other side, how much harm does an emu with 10 players actually do to SOE. None. And if a server does reach hundreds of users, they only need to send out a cease and desist order. If that doesn't help, then they have an easy court case.
But there's a difference between actions. ShowEQ was not an emulator. It was a packet sniffer. It didn't violate any IP in any way, since it merely displayed the traffic passing through the network card. Reverse engineering was only against EULA, and SOE even struggled against it for quite a while, by changing and improving the encryption, but nothing held long.
The problem with running an emu comes from the fact, that you're allowing unregistered/pirated copies to play, you're offering a service you have no rights to, and you're possibly exploiting assets you have no right to. And all these can come down to quite serious legal matters, should the owner choose to pursue them.
Originally posted by LAW! Morallity is a Point of View my friend. What you consider wrong, may be completly acceptable to others.
Lol. Just to clarify, you're ok with being a thief.
Define Thief....
Is it someone who takes that which does not belong to them?
The U.S. Government sanctions Stealing!...Ever hear of "Imminent Domain"? It's a law that says it's ok for municipalities to Steal your House and Land and turn it into a fire station or a new Walmart....Is taking ones Home away Stealing?
In 1942 the United States Military Stole the technology from Germany that led to the development of an Atomic Energy Weapon. This weapon would also end WW2 and save countless lives in the process...Was it wrong to Steal this information?
What about the poor Native Americans...Was it right to steal from them?
By your definition...THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT ARE THE BIGGEST THIEF OF ALL.
Originally posted by kaibigan34 I cant believe people are still arguing this. SOE and LEC cant sue anyone over it now. Thanks to Smedley and his big mouth they have no legal stance anymore. Smedley gave them permission with his post saying he would hire them if they succeeded.
Doesnt matter if LEC or SOE goes after someone making an EMU. All the defense has to say is "Your honor I would like to submit into evidence the statement made by Smedley, President and CEO of SOE. The developers of SWG. He not only gives them permission to make an EMU but also says he will hire them if they succeed."
Once that is done the case would be thrown out.
Kai
Thats one more reason we will see a SWG EMU in the near Future!
Originally posted by LAW! Originally posted by IcoGames
Originally posted by LAW! Morallity is a Point of View my friend. What you consider wrong, may be completly acceptable to others.
Lol. Just to clarify, you're ok with being a thief.
Define Thief....
Is it someone who takes that which does not belong to them?
The U.S. Government sanctions Stealing!...Ever hear of "Imminent Domain"? It's a law that says it's ok for municipalities to Steal your House and Land and turn it into a fire station or a new Walmart....Is taking ones Home away Stealing?
In 1942 the United States Military Stole the technology from Germany that led to the development of an Atomic Energy Weapon. This weapon would also end WW2 and save countless lives in the process...Was it wrong to Steal this information?
What about the poor Native Americans...Was it right to steal from them?
By your definition...THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT ARE THE BIGGEST THIEF OF ALL.
Everybody already knows this guy. Ever heard the story about the Collonist and the Native Americans?
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now." Boba Fett
Originally posted by Spathotan Originally posted by LAW! Originally posted by IcoGames
Originally posted by LAW! Morallity is a Point of View my friend. What you consider wrong, may be completly acceptable to others.
Lol. Just to clarify, you're ok with being a thief.
Define Thief....
Is it someone who takes that which does not belong to them?
The U.S. Government sanctions Stealing!...Ever hear of "Imminent Domain"? It's a law that says it's ok for municipalities to Steal your House and Land and turn it into a fire station or a new Walmart....Is taking ones Home away Stealing?
In 1942 the United States Military Stole the technology from Germany that led to the development of an Atomic Energy Weapon. This weapon would also end WW2 and save countless lives in the process...Was it wrong to Steal this information?
What about the poor Native Americans...Was it right to steal from them?
By your definition...THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT ARE THE BIGGEST THIEF OF ALL.
Everybody already knows this guy. Ever heard the story about the Collonist and the Native Americans?
Gee there spat...I don't know.
Maybe it was in the post you just quoted...Try reading before you post. It prevents you from making an ass of yourself.
Originally posted by LAW! The U.S. Government sanctions Stealing!...Ever hear of "Imminent Domain"? It's a law that says it's ok for municipalities to Steal your House and Land and turn it into a fire station or a new Walmart....Is taking ones Home away Stealing?
That's a fallacious argument. Yes the government can take your property, but: 1. It has to be for public use (dont get me started on the Kelo decision), and 2. The government has to compensate you. Even when new laws are introduced that would prevent you from an intended use, you can sue for a Takings.
What you propose is pure theft.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
No one has been able to tell us why SOE believes it is an acceptiable practice to have an EVERQUEST emulator. No one has made a valid agrument as to why SONY allows the "EXPLOTATION" of threir IP to continue. No one has explained why SOE and LA continue to allow the SWG EMU team to rebuild a publish 12.1 emulator based on the SWG MMORPG. Why not stop them now while the project is in the rebuilding stage?
WHY?...Then do most of you continue to believe the SWG EMU will never happen? Sure the servers may be in another country. Who really cares where the servers are. I think it is safe to say that if an EQ EMU can continue to function without legal troubles then so can a SWG EMU. I really do not see what the big deal is here. SOE has stated they do not care about EMUs and if the SWG EMU team gets it going, they would go as far as making them a job offer.
My guess is...
1) if they could do something about an EQ or SWG EMU ....they would. When have you ever known $OE to turn down a chance at more money.
or
2) They really do not think they care about a SWG EMU. They beleive the NGE is the best thing since sliced bread and could not imagine why anyone would want to play it for an this EMU thing for any length of time...They are that arrogant. You know this more than I do!
Most of you disagree with my point of view...I respect that. However, at this point I still believe 100% that we will have a nice alternative to the NGE....That is all I am saying.
Originally posted by LAW! Originally posted by Spathotan Originally posted by LAW! Originally posted by IcoGames Originally posted by LAW! Morallity is a Point of View my friend. What you consider wrong, may be completly acceptable to others.
Lol. Just to clarify, you're ok with being a thief.
Define Thief....
Is it someone who takes that which does not belong to them?
The U.S. Government sanctions Stealing!...Ever hear of "Imminent Domain"? It's a law that says it's ok for municipalities to Steal your House and Land and turn it into a fire station or a new Walmart....Is taking ones Home away Stealing?
In 1942 the United States Military Stole the technology from Germany that led to the development of an Atomic Energy Weapon. This weapon would also end WW2 and save countless lives in the process...Was it wrong to Steal this information?
What about the poor Native Americans...Was it right to steal from them?
By your definition...THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT ARE THE BIGGEST THIEF OF ALL.
Everybody already knows this guy. Ever heard the story about the Collonist and the Native Americans?
Gee there spat...I don't know.
Maybe it was in the post you just quoted...Try reading before you post. It prevents you from making an ass of yourself.
Exactly.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now." Boba Fett
Originally posted by LAW! The U.S. Government sanctions Stealing!...Ever hear of "Imminent Domain"? It's a law that says it's ok for municipalities to Steal your House and Land and turn it into a fire station or a new Walmart....Is taking ones Home away Stealing?
That's a fallacious argument. Yes the government can take your property, but: 1. It has to be for public use (don’t get me started on the Kelo decision), and 2. The government has to compensate you. Even when new laws are introduced that would prevent you from an intended use, you can sue for a ‘Takings’.
What you propose is pure theft.
PURE THEFT...IS THERE SUCH A THING AS HALF-THEFT...can stealing be half wrong and half right?...Why is it alright for Goverments to take from others?
So what if I were to refuse the Goverments generous offer?...Do they just say; "Aw gee Mister, sorry we bothered you...We thought it would be Ok with you, if we gave you pennies on the dollar for land that has been in your family for over 107 years. I guess we will be going now. I think not my friend...THEY TAKE IT FROM YOU AT THAT POINT.
It would be like me saying: Hey there ICO,I want to buy your $50,000 car for 10k. I am going to use it to make money hauling tourists to and from the airport. Afterall, I will be providing a nice PUBLIC service. Oh, whats that?...you don't want to sell you car for 10K...Well thats too bad, I'm taking it anyways bitch....Deal with it.
You are OK with the Goverment taking what does not belong to them and make money from the theft, But you think it's wrong for people to rebuild a video game that is no longer in exsistance and allow THE PUBLIC to use it FREE of charge...STRANGE
Originally posted by LAW! WHY?...Then do most of you continue to believe the SWG EMU will never happen?
I've no issue whether an SWG emulator can be created, but whether this project amounts to theft. Just because you can get away with an action, doesn't equate to it being lawful.
When you take something without permission, it's theft. Simple as that.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Law! stated: You are OK with the Goverment taking what does not belong to them and make money from the theft, But you think it's wrong for people to rebuild a video game that is no longer in exsistance and allow THE PUBLIC to use it FREE of charge...STRANGE
Just an FYI, I'm a Libertarian. No, I don't think it's ok for the US government to take property.
I'm just pointing out the fallacy in your argument. You have no intention of compensating SOE/LA for stealing their product. Where as, by law, the government has to compensate the property owner.
Also, the last time I checked, SWG still exists. ^_^
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Originally posted by LAW! WHY?...Then do most of you continue to believe the SWG EMU will never happen?
I've no issue whether an SWG emulator can be created, but whether this project amounts to theft. Just because you can get away with an action, doesn't equate to it being lawful.
When you take something without permission, it's theft. Simple as that.
US ARMY: We are here to make you a generous offer of "beads, trinkets and fire water" for all of your land.
NATIVE AMERICAN: But this land has been ours since the begining of time...We don't want your useless crap.
US ARMY: Thats too bad...we are taking it anyway. We need to build New York City you dumbass savage.
NATIVE AMAERICAN: But I did not give you permission to rape our land and push us onto reservations.
US ARMY: Take you trinkets and get your ass on the land we so gererously gave you, before we change our mind and put a bullet in your head. It's not stealing!...WE ARE THE US GOVERNMENT.
Law! stated: You are OK with the Goverment taking what does not belong to them and make money from the theft, But you think it's wrong for people to rebuild a video game that is no longer in exsistance and allow THE PUBLIC to use it FREE of charge...STRANGE
Just an FYI, I'm a Libertarian. No, I don't think it's ok for the US government to take property.
I'm just pointing out the fallacy in your argument. You have no intention of compensating SOE/LA for stealing their product. Where as, by law, the government has to compensate the property owner.
Also, the last time I checked, SWG still exists. ^_^
BTW...publish 12.1 is not the NGE. These are two very different games.
Originally posted by LAW! US ARMY: We are here to make you a generous offer of "beads, trinkets and fire water" for all of your land. NATIVE AMERICAN: But this land has been ours since the begining of time...We don't want your useless crap. .... bleh bleh bleh
To further this line of argument ... you're basically stating two wrongs, make a right. The US stole from the native peoples, hence you feel vindicated that you're stealing from SOE/LA.
Likewise, itd be ok for me to walk in your house and just take what I want. Lol.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
SOE might not give a damn about someone making a SWG emulator, mainly because they dont own the IP, lucasarts however may get a little ticked, and seeing as how they are blind as bats when it comes to little things like the complete community outrage the NGE has made, i doubt they will know about the emulator until its been out for a while and caught alot of attention.
Originally posted by LAW! US ARMY: We are here to make you a generous offer of "beads, trinkets and fire water" for all of your land. NATIVE AMERICAN: But this land has been ours since the begining of time...We don't want your useless crap. .... bleh bleh bleh
To further this line of argument ... you're basically stating two wrongs, make a right. The US stole from the native peoples, hence you now feel vindicated that you're stealing from SOE/LA.
Likewise, it’d be ok for me to walk in your house and just take what I want. Lol.
Two wrongs?...who gave you the right to judge what is good and fair for all the world.
You are failing to see my point. You say stealing is wrong. You say stealing is taking what does not belong to you. But, You say it's acceptable for our Government to steal from it's citizens. I respectfuly disagree.
You see...right and wrong are points of view.What you consider to be wrong, may be right to others. It is not your place, nor is it mine to judge others. Who says that a SWG EMU is wrong...YOU!...well who are you to decide that? I for one think it is perfectly fine to rebuild and allow the PUBLIC to use a game that no longer exsists.
I can tell you this for sure...We will see a SWG EMU soon enough. Regardless of what anyone thinks here. If you don't agree with it...Don't partake in it....simple!
BTW...You need to check that self rightous attitude at the door...You are not without fault my young friend.
Originally posted by LAW! BTW...publish 12.1 is not the NGE. These are two very different games.
Does the title still say 'Star Wars Galaxies'? : )
Ya know...
I don't know what the EMU guys are going to call the finished product. I will say this, the NGE is in fact a seperate game from the publish 12.1 version. It has changed in almost every way....
Combat
Weapons
Professions
Travel
Buffs
Clothing
Vehicles
Player housing
MOBs
Character stats
Items
XP
Bounty Hunting
Crafting
PvP
GCW
Space
User Interface
Droids
Pets
Skills
IG commo
Combat stat info
States
Jedi path
No longer turn based
Economy
Combat Speed
Creatures
Healing
Armor Stats
The game is now a FPS
Quests have been removed
added professions
Guild mgt.
Targeting
Weapon Stats
Rare Drops
DE-BUFFS
DOTs
Item Decay
Movement
I really could go on and on for pages and pages....The NGE and PUB 12.1 are two VERY different games. SOE has said it..."The Pre-CU game is gone...Even if we wanted to bring it back we couldn't".
If the EULA was being broken on any of these they would have been shut down. none of these ask for money for compensation of playing. most of the game companies give away their clients for free. and making an Emulator from scrath fromt eh ground upis not a crime. no law is being broken. sales are not being hurt besides the game companies themselves driving customers away by making bad descions. deal.
If the EULA was being broken on any of these they would have been shut down. none of these ask for money for compensation of playing. most give away their clients for free. and making an Emulator from scrath fromt eh ground upis not a crime. no law is being broken. sales are not being hurt. deal.
BIG Bumpity...Bump..Bump!!!
Thank you! As I have said from the start, the SWG EMU will be up soon enough and there is nothing LA or SOE can do about it. If all of these EMUs are out there...Why can't a SWG emulator exsist out there as well?
Comments
From what I see here, the best argument for the legality of a swgemu would be that sony hasn't shut them down yet. And that there are some other emus out there; although still waiting for a link to one of them or even just the site name.
Let's assume that the emuserver works great. Not buggy, no problem with the servers or bandwidth or anything. The emu server would have the effect of some people leaving the SWG game and switching to the emuserver. As soon as one payment/donation is made to the emuserver, that's theft of the copyrighted materials. Using copyrighted materials to promote a product, or in a product that generates revenue without obtaining the right to do so is theft. That's the entire point of the copyright laws in the first place. Otherwise anyone could make a spiderman comic, or a harry potter book... Having a comic book museum and generating revenue off of others IP is not the same as drawing spiderman on a tube of toothpaste in order to boost sales.
I'm not really familiar with how that would work out from the actual code part of the game; there are mods and whatnot that people have made for various games as add-ons to the original. But I can't recall any one of them being sold or requiring a donation, every last one I've seen is freeware.There may be some sites that require a monetary doantion for joining the site, but I havent seen them (but I've never been a huge mod fan myself, maybe someone out there can correct me if I'm wrong on that).
And let's not try to say 'Do it in some foreign country'. Remember that their are treaties between almost every industrialized nation that prevent patent and copyright theft. People in Argentina don't want people in the US to steal their ideas just as much as we don't want someone in Poland stealing ones from the US.
If someone manages to get an emu going and keeps it to themselves, good for them. But I just can't believe there will be a public emu that John Q. Public can log onto. It'd be a small group of people using it for their own play, not something out in the open.
Is this the quote you're refering to? I don't see any statement giving explicit permission to steal SWG's code.
People who are going to put you in prison for "stealing" their IP don't usually make standing offers of employment. Indeed, they actually hired somebody (Roy Eltham) who reverse engineered their code! (We are all assuming, of course, that Mr. Eltham is not still an employee of SOE against his will.
Now the next argument is that it is Lucasfilm's IP. Granted. However, its use within the framework of an MMO (game) solely rest with Sony Online Entertainment. That's why it is licensed, not just given. Therefore, it would seem to me that it would fall within the realm of SOE, not Lucasfilm, to enforce any copyright on the IP, and to pursue violators. Lucasfilm pursued the fan sites because they were violating the film-based IP. An SWG emulator would be violating (if even) the game-based IP, for which SOE holds the license.
(I'm not a lawyer, and I don't even play on on TV. This is all just reasoned conjecture.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
As ye SOE, so shall ye weep.
Is this the quote you're refering to? I don't see any statement giving explicit permission to steal SWG's code.
People who are going to put you in prison for "stealing" their IP don't usually make standing offers of employment. Indeed, they actually hired somebody (Roy Eltham) who reverse engineered their code! (We are all assuming, of course, that Mr. Eltham is not still an employee of SOE against his will.
Lawsuits are still just voluntary acts. Put yourself in the role of someone in high position. You get hundreds of job applications. But do go look at game company job postings: "must demonstrate past experience on completed projects". If you go to a company by doing something interesting with their own product, that counts for something. It actually counts for a lot.
And on the other side, how much harm does an emu with 10 players actually do to SOE. None. And if a server does reach hundreds of users, they only need to send out a cease and desist order. If that doesn't help, then they have an easy court case.
But there's a difference between actions. ShowEQ was not an emulator. It was a packet sniffer. It didn't violate any IP in any way, since it merely displayed the traffic passing through the network card. Reverse engineering was only against EULA, and SOE even struggled against it for quite a while, by changing and improving the encryption, but nothing held long.
The problem with running an emu comes from the fact, that you're allowing unregistered/pirated copies to play, you're offering a service you have no rights to, and you're possibly exploiting assets you have no right to. And all these can come down to quite serious legal matters, should the owner choose to pursue them.
Lol. Just to clarify, you're ok with being a thief.
Define Thief....
Is it someone who takes that which does not belong to them?
The U.S. Government sanctions Stealing!...Ever hear of "Imminent Domain"? It's a law that says it's ok for municipalities to Steal your House and Land and turn it into a fire station or a new Walmart....Is taking ones Home away Stealing?
In 1942 the United States Military Stole the technology from Germany that led to the development of an Atomic Energy Weapon. This weapon would also end WW2 and save countless lives in the process...Was it wrong to Steal this information?
What about the poor Native Americans...Was it right to steal from them?
By your definition...THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT ARE THE BIGGEST THIEF OF ALL.
Lol. Just to clarify, you're ok with being a thief.
Define Thief....
Is it someone who takes that which does not belong to them?
The U.S. Government sanctions Stealing!...Ever hear of "Imminent Domain"? It's a law that says it's ok for municipalities to Steal your House and Land and turn it into a fire station or a new Walmart....Is taking ones Home away Stealing?
In 1942 the United States Military Stole the technology from Germany that led to the development of an Atomic Energy Weapon. This weapon would also end WW2 and save countless lives in the process...Was it wrong to Steal this information?
What about the poor Native Americans...Was it right to steal from them?
By your definition...THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT ARE THE BIGGEST THIEF OF ALL.
Everybody already knows this guy. Ever heard the story about the Collonist and the Native Americans?
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
Lol. Just to clarify, you're ok with being a thief.
Define Thief....
Is it someone who takes that which does not belong to them?
The U.S. Government sanctions Stealing!...Ever hear of "Imminent Domain"? It's a law that says it's ok for municipalities to Steal your House and Land and turn it into a fire station or a new Walmart....Is taking ones Home away Stealing?
In 1942 the United States Military Stole the technology from Germany that led to the development of an Atomic Energy Weapon. This weapon would also end WW2 and save countless lives in the process...Was it wrong to Steal this information?
What about the poor Native Americans...Was it right to steal from them?
By your definition...THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT ARE THE BIGGEST THIEF OF ALL.
Everybody already knows this guy. Ever heard the story about the Collonist and the Native Americans?
Gee there spat...I don't know.
Maybe it was in the post you just quoted...Try reading before you post. It prevents you from making an ass of yourself.
That's a fallacious argument. Yes the government can take your property, but: 1. It has to be for public use (dont get me started on the Kelo decision), and 2. The government has to compensate you. Even when new laws are introduced that would prevent you from an intended use, you can sue for a Takings.
What you propose is pure theft.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Thus far...
No one has been able to tell us why SOE believes it is an acceptiable practice to have an EVERQUEST emulator. No one has made a valid agrument as to why SONY allows the "EXPLOTATION" of threir IP to continue. No one has explained why SOE and LA continue to allow the SWG EMU team to rebuild a publish 12.1 emulator based on the SWG MMORPG. Why not stop them now while the project is in the rebuilding stage?
WHY?...Then do most of you continue to believe the SWG EMU will never happen? Sure the servers may be in another country. Who really cares where the servers are. I think it is safe to say that if an EQ EMU can continue to function without legal troubles then so can a SWG EMU. I really do not see what the big deal is here. SOE has stated they do not care about EMUs and if the SWG EMU team gets it going, they would go as far as making them a job offer.
My guess is...
1) if they could do something about an EQ or SWG EMU ....they would. When have you ever known $OE to turn down a chance at more money.
or
2) They really do not think they care about a SWG EMU. They beleive the NGE is the best thing since sliced bread and could not imagine why anyone would want to play it for an this EMU thing for any length of time...They are that arrogant. You know this more than I do!
Most of you disagree with my point of view...I respect that. However, at this point I still believe 100% that we will have a nice alternative to the NGE....That is all I am saying.
Lol. Just to clarify, you're ok with being a thief.
Define Thief....
Is it someone who takes that which does not belong to them?
The U.S. Government sanctions Stealing!...Ever hear of "Imminent Domain"? It's a law that says it's ok for municipalities to Steal your House and Land and turn it into a fire station or a new Walmart....Is taking ones Home away Stealing?
In 1942 the United States Military Stole the technology from Germany that led to the development of an Atomic Energy Weapon. This weapon would also end WW2 and save countless lives in the process...Was it wrong to Steal this information?
What about the poor Native Americans...Was it right to steal from them?
By your definition...THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT ARE THE BIGGEST THIEF OF ALL.
Everybody already knows this guy. Ever heard the story about the Collonist and the Native Americans?
Gee there spat...I don't know.
Maybe it was in the post you just quoted...Try reading before you post. It prevents you from making an ass of yourself.
Exactly.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
That's a fallacious argument. Yes the government can take your property, but: 1. It has to be for public use (don’t get me started on the Kelo decision), and 2. The government has to compensate you. Even when new laws are introduced that would prevent you from an intended use, you can sue for a ‘Takings’.
What you propose is pure theft.
PURE THEFT...IS THERE SUCH A THING AS HALF-THEFT...can stealing be half wrong and half right?...Why is it alright for Goverments to take from others?
So what if I were to refuse the Goverments generous offer?...Do they just say; "Aw gee Mister, sorry we bothered you...We thought it would be Ok with you, if we gave you pennies on the dollar for land that has been in your family for over 107 years. I guess we will be going now. I think not my friend...THEY TAKE IT FROM YOU AT THAT POINT.
It would be like me saying: Hey there ICO, I want to buy your $50,000 car for 10k. I am going to use it to make money hauling tourists to and from the airport. Afterall, I will be providing a nice PUBLIC service. Oh, whats that?...you don't want to sell you car for 10K...Well thats too bad, I'm taking it anyways bitch....Deal with it.
You are OK with the Goverment taking what does not belong to them and make money from the theft, But you think it's wrong for people to rebuild a video game that is no longer in exsistance and allow THE PUBLIC to use it FREE of charge...STRANGE
I've no issue whether an SWG emulator can be created, but whether this project amounts to theft. Just because you can get away with an action, doesn't equate to it being lawful.
When you take something without permission, it's theft. Simple as that.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Just an FYI, I'm a Libertarian. No, I don't think it's ok for the US government to take property.
I'm just pointing out the fallacy in your argument. You have no intention of compensating SOE/LA for stealing their product. Where as, by law, the government has to compensate the property owner.
Also, the last time I checked, SWG still exists. ^_^
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I've no issue whether an SWG emulator can be created, but whether this project amounts to theft. Just because you can get away with an action, doesn't equate to it being lawful.
When you take something without permission, it's theft. Simple as that.
US ARMY: We are here to make you a generous offer of "beads, trinkets and fire water" for all of your land.
NATIVE AMERICAN: But this land has been ours since the begining of time...We don't want your useless crap.
US ARMY: Thats too bad...we are taking it anyway. We need to build New York City you dumbass savage.
NATIVE AMAERICAN: But I did not give you permission to rape our land and push us onto reservations.
US ARMY: Take you trinkets and get your ass on the land we so gererously gave you, before we change our mind and put a bullet in your head. It's not stealing!...WE ARE THE US GOVERNMENT.
Just an FYI, I'm a Libertarian. No, I don't think it's ok for the US government to take property.
I'm just pointing out the fallacy in your argument. You have no intention of compensating SOE/LA for stealing their product. Where as, by law, the government has to compensate the property owner.
Also, the last time I checked, SWG still exists. ^_^
BTW...publish 12.1 is not the NGE. These are two very different games.
To further this line of argument ... you're basically stating two wrongs, make a right. The US stole from the native peoples, hence you feel vindicated that you're stealing from SOE/LA.
Likewise, itd be ok for me to walk in your house and just take what I want. Lol.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Does the title still say 'Star Wars Galaxies'? : )
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
To further this line of argument ... you're basically stating two wrongs, make a right. The US stole from the native peoples, hence you now feel vindicated that you're stealing from SOE/LA.
Likewise, it’d be ok for me to walk in your house and just take what I want. Lol.
Two wrongs?...who gave you the right to judge what is good and fair for all the world.
You are failing to see my point. You say stealing is wrong. You say stealing is taking what does not belong to you. But, You say it's acceptable for our Government to steal from it's citizens. I respectfuly disagree.
You see...right and wrong are points of view. What you consider to be wrong, may be right to others. It is not your place, nor is it mine to judge others. Who says that a SWG EMU is wrong...YOU!...well who are you to decide that? I for one think it is perfectly fine to rebuild and allow the PUBLIC to use a game that no longer exsists.
I can tell you this for sure...We will see a SWG EMU soon enough. Regardless of what anyone thinks here. If you don't agree with it...Don't partake in it....simple!
BTW...You need to check that self rightous attitude at the door...You are not without fault my young friend.
It could be I guess
If the SWG EMU project was stealing anything at all I guess it would be.
Does the title still say 'Star Wars Galaxies'? : )
Ya know...
I don't know what the EMU guys are going to call the finished product. I will say this, the NGE is in fact a seperate game from the publish 12.1 version. It has changed in almost every way....
Combat
Weapons
Professions
Travel
Buffs
Clothing
Vehicles
Player housing
MOBs
Character stats
Items
XP
Bounty Hunting
Crafting
PvP
GCW
Space
User Interface
Droids
Pets
Skills
IG commo
Combat stat info
States
Jedi path
No longer turn based
Economy
Combat Speed
Creatures
Healing
Armor Stats
The game is now a FPS
Quests have been removed
added professions
Guild mgt.
Targeting
Weapon Stats
Rare Drops
DE-BUFFS
DOTs
Item Decay
Movement
I really could go on and on for pages and pages....The NGE and PUB 12.1 are two VERY different games. SOE has said it..."The Pre-CU game is gone...Even if we wanted to bring it back we couldn't".
PUB 12.1 is not the NGE!
i would just like to say all those doubters out there...
UO freeservers
DAOC freeservers
WoW freeservers
Lineage2 Freeservers
If the EULA was being broken on any of these they would have been shut down. none of these ask for money for compensation of playing. most of the game companies give away their clients for free. and making an Emulator from scrath fromt eh ground upis not a crime. no law is being broken. sales are not being hurt besides the game companies themselves driving customers away by making bad descions. deal.
BIG Bumpity...Bump..Bump!!!
Thank you! As I have said from the start, the SWG EMU will be up soon enough and there is nothing LA or SOE can do about it. If all of these EMUs are out there...Why can't a SWG emulator exsist out there as well?