Gameloading you have it completely wrong. The west is where Blizzard will lose its subscriptions. They are safe in Asia. They will prolly grow for the next for years in Asia. But in NA/EU they will lose a ton of subscriptions. That is a definite. There is no question about it. Western gamers as shown by the style of games that are popular here are fickle gamers. We will move onto the next big popular game. And since a lot of big popular games are coming out we will be gone.
By the end of 2007 Blizzard will most likely break the 9-10 million mark. But instead of being 4.5 -5 million in asia and 3-4 million in the NA/EU like it is now. It will be 8-9million in Asia and about 1 million in NA/EU combined.
Remember what you are even saying. War, AoC, LOTRO, etc etc all will have to pull customers from the current MMO pool. So lets say they are all have good releases and are decent hits. Lets say that every game that says it is coming out in the next year does. Looking at just NA/EU users lets make an educated guess on how they will do.
LOTRO - 500K ( Easily can say that this will sell at least this many boxes, just based off of how long it has been popular on the presale list)
WAR - 300K
AoC - 250K (not counting if it releases for Xbox360)
TCoS - 150K
PoTBS - 100K
Gods and Heroes - 150K
GE - 150K (could be a lot higher or lower, not real sure on this one, but 150K is higher then DDO but lower then what DAoC had at peak)
Aion - 100K
Huxley - 300K (will bring a lot of people that want Sci Fi and FPS is super popular here in NA/EU)
Just to name some of the games. So lets take a look at that total 2.1 million people. And that is fairly modest estimates on these games. Most realistic people can see if a game like vanguard and ddo with their bad launches can still reach 100K then newer games are going to do much better with a bigger pool of players to pull from.
So that 2.1million will mostly come from WoW's Current pool of NA/EU players. To think it won't is just being a blind fanboy. There are not many MMO players really in the NA/EU market place. So they will come from somewhere. And NO, WoW's current fanbase are not so blinded by their love of the game that they are not looking elsewhere. Other then you, I haven't met a single person not waiting for a new game to come out. Everyone I spoke with on WoW and whole guilds were saying how they couldn't wait for "x" game to come out. Whether that is LOTRO, WAR, AoC, or what ever it doesn't matter. The fact is that eventually WoW will lose subscribers and no it won't be many years from now when Blizzard comes out with something new. You fanboys act like Blizzard is the only company with a devoted fanbase. I am sorry but I call a fanbase of Madden lovers who will pay 50-60 bucks for the new game cuz of minor changes fanboys. Other companies with similar fanbases are Microsoft with Halo, Bioware with their games, and Square Enix with Final Fantasy.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Is blizzard making another expansion then? They've never made more than one official expansion for any of their previous games.
WoW and its expansion isn't exactly the same quality as the other Blizzard games though so maybe they will make an expansion. I figured it is more likely that they move onto their next project though, as opposed to sticking around with WoW. I really doubt they can make much more money from it.
assuming that WoW will always be number 1 is short sighted, WAR probably wont take the top spot, but you know what? i dont care. as long as its a good game and there is at least one server with lots of people on it ill be happy.
Look at it from Blizzard point of view, subs have been increasing the last 2 years on the strengh of what WoW offered so when it came to an expansion why change a formula that so many people appeared to enjoy? and so TBC was born which just offered more of the same with some nice additions, nothing ground breaking or dareing but if you were blizzard would you want to put out a potential NGE?
TBC didn't have the hook I wanted and so I only play the odd evening now untill my sub is up, but it was polished and upto the the AAA standards of WoW.
2007 will be the peek of WoW, after TBC launches in Asia, But dont expect WoW to die any time soon, they wont start to drop millions of subs this year even with LOTRO,WAR and AoC.
WoW gets another expansion at the end of the year about the same time AoC and WAR is released so Blizzard will need to do something special and change the forumula or they might be left behind, I will guess a massive PvP overhaul as both WAR and AoC are PvP centric.
recent blue post about new wow expansion "Yes we are thinking on and planning on a new expansion. No, we aren't talking as of yet about what it will be. We have many things we are working on including continuing to improve upon and add on to what we have in the game now"
they stated many times they will produce 1 expansion every 12 months approx.
i like wow and still enjoy logging in and playing but i am looking forward to war but for past few years i have got in the habit of not listening to hype i play the beta if i like it i buy it, try it for myself as everyone enjoys differant things thankfully
although reading the bitch fights on here does make for funny reading
You can talk about subs all you want but that won't change the fact that wow is a rewally shallow game i mean what does it offer, raids and rep grinds and i include pvp in the rep grind. It doesn't give you crafting, player/guild housing, decent meaningful pvp. These things could have been implemeneted with tbc as it was in development for two years. Blizzard are just a very lazy and unimaginative company.
WoW does have crafting and always have had crafting, TBC added a new crafting profession too, WoW now has 14 proffesions ( www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/professions/ ).
Player houseing would be usless in WoW, Guild halls would be nice and ill agree should be in the game by now.
Everything else was not facts just your opinion.. which your entitled too, but pls dont lie to better your crusade.
The topic is Blizzard is not a dumb company", which is incorrect. They left people waiting for so long for TBC to come out, just for it to suck. They have made lots of the good features, like the high end raids UBER-hard so only the really hardcore guilds can do them, leaving the lesser guilds feeling left out. All that is left for the normal WoW players is to try and scrape some nice gear off pvp, just for them to get ganked by the hardcore players again.
You can talk about subs all you want but that won't change the fact that wow is a rewally shallow game i mean what does it offer, raids and rep grinds and i include pvp in the rep grind. It doesn't give you crafting, player/guild housing, decent meaningful pvp. These things could have been implemeneted with tbc as it was in development for two years. Blizzard are just a very lazy and unimaginative company.
WoW does have crafting and always have had crafting, TBC added a new crafting profession too, WoW now has 14 proffesions ( www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/professions/ ).
Everything else was not facts just your opinion.. which your entitled too, but pls dont lie to better your crusade.
You call what wow has crafting, it is a sad sorry excuse for crafting even vanguards crafting is better.
WoW's crafting is in no way meaningful you can't really make anything that is better than a dungeon drop, games like Pre-Cu SWG and DAoC gad by far better crafting than wow.
As for everythng else being "just my opinion", does wow have pler/guild housing? No, Does wow have meaningful pvp? No, looks like i had facts in there.
Looks like you replyed after my edit .
Agree 90% of what you can craft is usless when your lvl 70, but is high lvl armour patches, potions, enchants, trinkets, scopes, skinning (to support almost all proffesions) usless?
But I guess you never had your epic weapon enchanted, or your armour/attack power increased with armour patches, never had use for HP/MA pots, never needed a +10% mount speed trinket or a spell reflect trinket or needed a scope of your gun or bow or required some leather for your crafting?... and so on.
Do you epxect an item that can be crafted at 10/375 crafting to be usfull to some at lvl 70?
Your views on PvP is your opinion, PvP wont earn you a city or let you take over a zone, but it was NEVER designed to do that.
DAoC was my first MMO, so i know it verry well, and i will explain how Mytic was a bad game developer
Wen DAoC was relesed they only add pve content thill lvl 40, and than people jumped in frontiers to do 40-50 levels, at that time realm points were not there.(they were but you coldnt use them)
SI camme out , it was an ok expansion, and housings also, but they introduced /level 20 sistem that killed the low level places, this way wen any playerr joined DAoC wold have no fun, and only could see empty places
Than mytic, realised that they will never have EQ numbers(450k at that time, DAoC 250k), so they relesed ToA a raiding expancion, casual players abandoned DAoC because they couldnt compete in RvR, they didnt have the time for raids, nither to grind levels to artifacts,to be able to play in RvR, and many of hardcore didnt liked, because, they liked to pvp not to pve.
Than came NF Most of DAoC vets didnt liked to see their pvp to be changed, they were used to 8 vs 8 fights, and now they have to zerg castls or wonder for hours looking for an 8 vs 8 fight
DR was the last mess, wen Mytic implemented task quests were you run the same instance for 10 levels, and than you jump in the next one to do your next 10 levels, doing allweys the same 3 quests clean dungeon,kill all x mobs or kill the named mob(atention with no lore, the npc didnt tell you why he wants you to kill that mob(s)).
With this expansion all people who started DAoC were unable to see other players thill level 50 were they join pvp.
Lets not forguet buff bots, were mytic let you have a second account(other way you can compete in pvp), on normal servers everyone have a bot, and i am not exagerating.
Class imbalance, classes no one played cause they had 0 utilitty in pve/pvp groups (armasman), no one play melee characters baecause casters are overpowered.
And you are telling me that Mytic is a beter companie than Blizzard???
People forguet things realy fast.
PS. People dont want new things in their games. We dont pay for a game, to be playng a complete difrent game wen an expansion commes out. WoW played safe and did it well, FFXI do the same, and it have a stable population, and the same goes with EVE were they dont change the gameplay, just guive you more tools(this 3 are the only stable or growing games atm).Look at SWG,EQ1,EQ2, DAoC that changed their gameplay because of their rival, they just lost subs.
Gameloading you have it completely wrong. The west is where Blizzard will lose its subscriptions. They are safe in Asia. They will prolly grow for the next for years in Asia. But in NA/EU they will lose a ton of subscriptions. That is a definite. There is no question about it. Western gamers as shown by the style of games that are popular here are fickle gamers. We will move onto the next big popular game. And since a lot of big popular games are coming out we will be gone.
That is hardly the truth. How many people still play Counterstrike? How many people still play Battlefield 2? How many people still play Warcraft 3 and the frozen throne? How many people still play Wolfenstein: Enemy territory? Halo 2?
IF any games are going to steal subscribers from WoW, its going to be Ragnarok 2 and Aion hitting Asia, simply because Gravity and NCsoft are bigger in asia then Mythic and Funcom will ever be in the west. Ragnarok Online was one of the most popular mmorpg's ever. but even if those game will take anything from WoW is still very questionable. Granado Espada, created by Hakkyu Kim (for those who don't know him, Hakkyu Kim is a bit like the Brad Mcquaid - Richard garrot of the east), the game that won the korean best game of 2006 award, the most hyped game in Korea, didn't lay a scratch on WoW's playerbase.
By the end of 2007 Blizzard will most likely break the 9-10 million mark. But instead of being 4.5 -5 million in asia and 3-4 million in the NA/EU like it is now. It will be 8-9million in Asia and about 1 million in NA/EU combined.
Please, ever since WoW was released we have heard that over and over again. it didn't happen then, I don't see any reason why it will now.
Remember what you are even saying. War, AoC, LOTRO, etc etc all will have to pull customers from the current MMO pool. So lets say they are all have good releases and are decent hits. Lets say that every game that says it is coming out in the next year does. Looking at just NA/EU users lets make an educated guess on how they will do.
LOTRO - 500K ( Easily can say that this will sell at least this many boxes, just based off of how long it has been popular on the presale list)
WAR - 300K
AoC - 250K (not counting if it releases for Xbox360)
TCoS - 150K
PoTBS - 100K
Gods and Heroes - 150K
GE - 150K (could be a lot higher or lower, not real sure on this one, but 150K is higher then DDO but lower then what DAoC had at peak)
Aion - 100K
Huxley - 300K (will bring a lot of people that want Sci Fi and FPS is super popular here in NA/EU)
I find this list everything but educated. The Chronicle of Spellborn, Pirate of the Burning Sea, Gods and Heroes are all games made by companies with no name recognition whatsoever. None of those are slightly in the state to be considered "hyped". True, G&H has SOE behind them, but when was the last time someone actually considered that a positive thing?
Moving on, Granado Espada 150k subscribers in the west is unrealistic. Its published by K2 network, a company with a very bad reputation. the game is not hyped in the least, and I don't see it doing that much better then Ragnarok Online. Aion 100k sounds realistic enough. Big name from NCsoft, sounds good. Huxley 300k is rediculous on the other hand.
Just to name some of the games. So lets take a look at that total 2.1 million people. And that is fairly modest estimates on these games. Most realistic people can see if a game like vanguard and ddo with their bad launches can still reach 100K then newer games are going to do much better with a bigger pool of players to pull from.
But you make two mistakes here. Vanguard LAUNCHED with 100k copies sold, nobody knows the current subscriber base. Last thing we heard from D&DO was 80k subscribers, but after the merge of some european servers, my guess would be that number is dropping.
So that 2.1million will mostly come from WoW's Current pool of NA/EU players. To think it won't is just being a blind fanboy. There are not many MMO players really in the NA/EU market place. So they will come from somewhere. And NO, WoW's current fanbase are not so blinded by their love of the game that they are not looking elsewhere. Other then you, I haven't met a single person not waiting for a new game to come out. Everyone I spoke with on WoW and whole guilds were saying how they couldn't wait for "x" game to come out. Whether that is LOTRO, WAR, AoC, or what ever it doesn't matter. The fact is that eventually WoW will lose subscribers and no it won't be many years from now when Blizzard comes out with something new. You fanboys act like Blizzard is the only company with a devoted fanbase. I am sorry but I call a fanbase of Madden lovers who will pay 50-60 bucks for the new game cuz of minor changes fanboys. Other companies with similar fanbases are Microsoft with Halo, Bioware with their games, and Square Enix with Final Fantasy.
And every person you met in WoW is still about 0,01% of the total playerbase. Before you make blind assumptions, what makes you think that I'm not looking for other games? So because I stay realistic and not jump on "WAR will totally rule the entire MMORPG scene and WoW is going down!" bandwagon, I am suddenly a fanboi that will never play anything other then WoW? Please. I'm sure Blizzard at some point will lose subscribers, But it won't be WAR or Age of Conan that will walk away with 1 million ~ 2 million subscribers. Even free to play games like Guild Wars only reached 3 million boxes sold.
Good post Warcrytm, that is exactly what I have been trying to say. I do not trust Mythic.
I stil think that Wow will suffer this fall, it has introduced a lot of new people into MMOs. The BC content will run out for most this summer, and with no expansion in the near future, you can bet people are going to be looking elsewhere to try something new.
Let's face it, Wow endgame is about raiding. Only about 10% of the playerbase raids, so you are looking at 90% that has to exist on the limited other options in the game. Pretty easy to come to the conclusion that other MMO's will benefit due to Blizzard's lack of action.
If you play on a pvp server, expect the server population to drop significantly. Blizzard form of lame pvp will quickly be deserted by those looking for better pvp.
I personally don't count WoW crafting as "real" crafting. It is far too easy to gather the mats for nearly all items (not sure about BC haven't played Virus 2.0). There is no penalty for failing a craft. The mats that failed should disappear, what do you think happens in real life. If you try to mix two or more solutions or objects, and it doesn't turn out correct or at all they're gone, no "save" or revering. But no crafting should be like FFXI... ugh... (not sure if it is easier now cause I don't like FFXI in general)
About xpacs and WoW, no matter what they implant it is still the same, grind to level (if capped increased again), gear up, learn strats, kill bosses. Adding player housing will only make the economy worse, what does your bed or house really do for you +5 spell damage? I doubt that.
"WoW = Waiting for Warhammer." I found that funny.
It is late March and Blizzard hasn't announced an expansion.
I think they are starting to back peddle on their yearly expansion plans.
The next expansion has to be better than BC. I loved BC for the first month. The problem
that I had was that they things they added should have been in WoW to begin with.
The faction system gone crazy, witht he cross instance key chains are something that
would have kept people busy longer than MC/BWL/AQ did. I know most guilds never completed Naxx.
I think they did a good job on the starting areas for the new races, but who really wants to do the Barrens or Duskwood for the millionth time. The Outland was fun, but I hit 70 too fast and just got bored doing quests for gold. Having a Flying Mount was NOT as fun as I had hoped. The instances just didn't seem to interest me, and as a Priest that was the nail in my UD's coffin.
I will buy LOTRO and WAR, maybe even AOC. I don't see any of these games putting a big dent in WoW.
WoW will suffer more from people getting bored and playing nonMMOs instead of people switching to new releases.
Haha, I love it GameLoading when someone says something about WAR or it being the next big thing. You think its an attack against WoW. Something could be the next big thing without topping something like WoW. Take the movie industry for example. And since when did people spout that "WAR will reign supreme over all MMOs"? Cause thats just ridiculous. (besides one simply can't rule over all MMOs that just doesn't even make sense. Something can be popular, but doesn't mean its the best or rules over anything) People who I talk to are like "OMG! I can't wait. It sounds like fun." Nothing even commenting close to WoW. Cause really; they just don't care same with everyone looking forward to WAR we don't care if WAR will beat WoW cause we don't want it to be the new WoW. Right now it seems you're making mountains out of mole-hills. If someone says something that isn't even attacking wow you don't need to be "Nope you're wrong cause wow is so great.. ect ect ect." Nobody was saying anything about it so you don't need to bring it up.
Thats like if I said Orange soda is good and you go "No, you're wrong root-beer is good and nothing can come close to it." Don't say you're not; cause everyone can see you are doing that.
Siehst du mich Erkennst du mich Ganz tief in meinem Herz ist noch ein Platz f?r dich Ich suche dich Ich sehne mich nach dem was ich geliebt hab doch ich find es nicht
Have you seen the vids? pvp looks like garbage. Even if it is pre beta, it sucks. AOC is on the same track; and the combat is way more dynamic then anything anyone has come up with in an mmo.
The warcraft universe is so much deeper then WARS as well. i passed out after reading the first few lines. I went to the wow wiki and wam! super cool stuff...
How is AOC gonna flop agien? killer graphics+a new kind of gameplay mechanic( A REAL UPGRADE FROM NORMAL RPGS, INCLUDING WAR.)+ the RTS element that WOW lacks?
But to get back on topic warcraft I dont think they will be letting loose the lichking in the next expantion. Thats to soon of a lvl jump.
Oh yeah and A COMPANY WHO CREATES THE LORE CANNOT SCREW IT UP!
When I first read the title for this I thought the author was being sarcastic. If anything, TBC should have made people realize that WoW is never going to come out with an amazing xpac. They have not and probably never stray from what they know has worked for them in the past. This means that every xpac that comes out is just going to be more of the same. WoW has lost it's luster and I, along with many others, are fed up with the same old same old. WoW was fun at first....at first...but now we, as gamers, need more. We need something new. This is simply something that Blizzard will not be willing to do anytime soon.
When I first read the title for this I thought the author was being sarcastic. If anything, TBC should have made people realize that WoW is never going to come out with an amazing xpac. They have not and probably never stray from what they know has worked for them in the past. This means that every xpac that comes out is just going to be more of the same. WoW has lost it's luster and I, along with many others, are fed up with the same old same old. WoW was fun at first....at first...but now we, as gamers, need more. We need something new. This is simply something that Blizzard will not be willing to do anytime soon.
The warcraft universe is so much deeper then WARS as well. i passed out after reading the first few lines. I went to the wow wiki and wam! super cool stuff...
Oh yeah and A COMPANY WHO CREATES THE LORE CANNOT SCREW IT UP!
I hve seen some posts where WOW players think WAR(Warhammer online) is a clone of WOW! I decided to set the facts straight.
1st. Warhammer was around long before Blizzard was a company.
2nd. Most characterization of any fantasy setting takes on one of two looks. The S.A Salvatore Forgotten Realms,Ravenloft(D&D) characterization or from the master of all JRR Tolkien.
3rd. All game designers have ideas based off of other games, books or pictures. Its a given.
4th. The final fact. Hope you enjoy!! You can google it if you like!
I'm sure Blizzard doesn't worry about Warhammer. why would they? Blizzard is going 8,5 million subscribers strong, and its STILL growing. Why would they fear a company that peaked at 250k subscribers with its game?
But I too am confident that the next WoW expansion will be well worth it. I'm satisfied with Burning Crusade so far.WAR is a great challenger no discussion there. The winner isn't the one with the most amount of subscribers, WoW is the biggest bomb on that front ever. But WAR I know will be the next big thing that people will talk about.
I don't expect all too many to switch from WoW to WAR because WoW is a game on it's own and there are sooo many fanboys playing it who have put too much time in it they wouldn't ever dream of leaving it. No matter what game that comes.
No matter what happends WAR will not have a positive impact for Blizzard. Since they indeed are going to loose subscribers.Ofcourse the winner is the one with the most subscribers. when talking about the "Big thing" in a franchise, it means the game that is the most popular, the most played, and the one that received the most media attention, and WAR will be neither of those. WAR is not a challenger. Fantasy Warhammer setting isn't that popular among video gamers. WAR doesn't have the franchise of Warhammer, and Mythic doesn't have the company recognition of Blizzard. Millions of gamers were actually VERY excited about the announcement of the new alliance race in the Burning Crusade. Loads of gamers were waiting for blizzard to open its mouth and say which race will join the alliance. Only very few people cared when Mythic announced the races.
WAR will do fine, no doubt about that. I'm sure they will reach a nice 150k~250k subscribers, if not a few more. But it will always live in the shadow of World of Warcraft, just like every other MMORPG out there.
I'm sorry Gameloading, but I think you're wrong on this one. You underestimate the power of good PvP. WoW's pvp = completely meaningless shit. Warhammer's PvP should be awesome coming from the makers of a great PvP game (DAoC). I'd be willing to bet a paycheck Warhammer will grab at least 1 million subscribers and you can quote this later if ya want.
But what games do we actually consider good PVP? Ultima Online and Dark age of Camelot were both considered good pvp games, and neither of them ever got above 250k subscribers. Only Lineage 1 and Lineage 2 were very successfull pvp games, and thats because of the success in asia. to my knowledge, Mythic doesn't even have plans for a WAR in asia. I don't really understand why you predict WARHAMMER will grab 1 million subscribers, you (and many others, not to just pick on you) act like its completely normal for an MMORPG to reach 1 million subscribers. Out of all those MMORPG's, only 3 of them ever made it above 1 million subscribers. thats WoW, Lineage and Lineage 2. No other. Even a game like Everquest back then, only capped at 400k ~ 500k subscribers. Your fully free to disagree with me, many people do.
You must be new to MMO's because back when DAoC was in it prime 250k subs was a huge amount of people for a PvP game, consider the number game at the time was EQ with 500k sub, coming in as the second largest MMO with 250k subs wasn't a bad thing. Your comparing Apples and Oranges please next time made a valid argument instead of just talking out of your ass.
Getting 1 million subs ISN'T HARD, all you need to do is appeal to the Asian market, which WoW did and is the ONLY reason WoW hasbecome so poplar. Most of those 8 millions subs WoW fanboi's love to pull out of their asses when bashing a game come from Asia. The rest come from new ignorant MMO players, and B.net kiddies.
Originally posted by DuraheLL
Originally posted by Gameloading
I doubt WAR will receive the same score as WoW. Mythic has never been able to rival Blizzard in terms of quality.
Maybe in your opinion Mythic has a greater reputation then blizzard, but the general gaming community doesn't agree with you by a long shot. Blizzard has always been known for its high quality RTS games. Starcraft and Warcraft are considered the national sports in Korea for crying out loud, and Blizzards reputation went through the roof with World of Warcraft.
Also, I wat not talking about the fantasy genre, I was talking about Warhammers fantasy setting.
I may sound like a Mythic hater, but honnestly, I'm not. I'm also curious the direction which they are going with WAR. but at the same time, I will also stay realistic.Warhammer is extremely popular. The tabletop game. So was WarCraft the strategy game.
Warhammer is said to have sold about 90 million units per year! You can imagine how many people who play it then.
I don't really understand why you go on and say stuff like "Mythic has never been able to rival Blizzard in terms of quality". Does that mean that they cannot succeed now? And I truly think DAOC is an extremely well done game and for it's time it was pretty advanced indeed.
WAR will be a huge bomb, and a success to that. Nothing indicates otherwise IMO. I doubt that when it comes, it's gonna be seen as a "worse game than WoW". I think that when people will ask which game they're gonna play people will mostly responce with WAR and WoW.
Exactly. TABLETOP game. not Computer or Video game. Dungeons & Dragons is also a widely popular tabletop game, yet we don't see D&DO reaching 1 million, or even 100k, subscribers either. and that really isn't because D&DO is such a horrible game. D&DO received pretty good ratings.
Ofcourse it doesn't mean that they cannot succeed now, But the past of Mythic is good, but not as good as Blizzards. DAOC is fine game, but it can't match the quality of World of Warcraft.
If you consider 150k~250k subscribers a huge bomb, then sure. But I doubt it will be much bigger then that. I can give you some indications that will show you that WAR won't be super successfull. Most MMORPG's released after the release of WoW is doing "bad" to "okay". Look at Auto Assault. ArchLord. Dungeons & Dragons Online. the only one that is really doing okay after the release of WoW is Vanguard. A lot of MMORPG's lost subscribers after WoW. Everquest. FFXI. DAOC, and especialy Lineage and Lineage 2 received a heavy downfall in subscribers.
Then there are a whole load of MMORPG's comming out, splitting up the Non-WoW MMORPG players even further.
WoW is hurting the mmorpg market. badly.
Quality of Warcraft? I consider that an insult to MMO dev's everywhere Mythic made there game from the ground up, and I have a lot of respect for them because of it. All WoW did was rip off other games! WoW did nothing new, or special they just copied everyone elses work.
Indications that WAR won't be super successfull? because crappy games like Vanguard and D&DO failed? I'm sure it had nothing to do with the games or there content or there developers! WoW made those games crappy! Show me ONE game that failed with a decent amount of hype and a good game company behind it? Oh wait you can't because it hasn't happend yet.
Too bad WAR looks like trash. Have you seen the vids? pvp looks like garbage. Even if it is pre beta, it sucks. AOC is on the same track; and the combat is way more dynamic then anything anyone has come up with in an mmo. The warcraft universe is so much deeper then WARS as well. i passed out after reading the first few lines. I went to the wow wiki and wam! super cool stuff... How is AOC gonna flop agien? killer graphics+a new kind of gameplay mechanic( A REAL UPGRADE FROM NORMAL RPGS, INCLUDING WAR.)+ the RTS element that WOW lacks? But to get back on topic warcraft I dont think they will be letting loose the lichking in the next expantion. Thats to soon of a lvl jump. Oh yeah and A COMPANY WHO CREATES THE LORE CANNOT SCREW IT UP!
ROFLMAO!
Damn now I need another bath.
Ultima Online 98~04 Dark Age of Camelot 03~07 Final Fantasy XI 04~06 Guild Wars 05~08 World of Warcraft 04~05 Unsuccessful Tries: DFO/EQ2/DRaja/Rag/Req/RYL/9D/Cabal/KO/PSU/RF/GE/TO/TR/DDO/EVE/LoTRO/L2/RZ/SWG/VG
Comments
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ytsp5YVRHq8&mode=related&search=
Check out that video.
By the end of 2007 Blizzard will most likely break the 9-10 million mark. But instead of being 4.5 -5 million in asia and 3-4 million in the NA/EU like it is now. It will be 8-9million in Asia and about 1 million in NA/EU combined.
Remember what you are even saying. War, AoC, LOTRO, etc etc all will have to pull customers from the current MMO pool. So lets say they are all have good releases and are decent hits. Lets say that every game that says it is coming out in the next year does. Looking at just NA/EU users lets make an educated guess on how they will do.
LOTRO - 500K ( Easily can say that this will sell at least this many boxes, just based off of how long it has been popular on the presale list)
WAR - 300K
AoC - 250K (not counting if it releases for Xbox360)
TCoS - 150K
PoTBS - 100K
Gods and Heroes - 150K
GE - 150K (could be a lot higher or lower, not real sure on this one, but 150K is higher then DDO but lower then what DAoC had at peak)
Aion - 100K
Huxley - 300K (will bring a lot of people that want Sci Fi and FPS is super popular here in NA/EU)
Just to name some of the games. So lets take a look at that total 2.1 million people. And that is fairly modest estimates on these games. Most realistic people can see if a game like vanguard and ddo with their bad launches can still reach 100K then newer games are going to do much better with a bigger pool of players to pull from.
So that 2.1million will mostly come from WoW's Current pool of NA/EU players. To think it won't is just being a blind fanboy. There are not many MMO players really in the NA/EU market place. So they will come from somewhere. And NO, WoW's current fanbase are not so blinded by their love of the game that they are not looking elsewhere. Other then you, I haven't met a single person not waiting for a new game to come out. Everyone I spoke with on WoW and whole guilds were saying how they couldn't wait for "x" game to come out. Whether that is LOTRO, WAR, AoC, or what ever it doesn't matter. The fact is that eventually WoW will lose subscribers and no it won't be many years from now when Blizzard comes out with something new. You fanboys act like Blizzard is the only company with a devoted fanbase. I am sorry but I call a fanbase of Madden lovers who will pay 50-60 bucks for the new game cuz of minor changes fanboys. Other companies with similar fanbases are Microsoft with Halo, Bioware with their games, and Square Enix with Final Fantasy.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
The sun never sets on the British Empire
assuming that WoW will always be number 1 is short sighted, WAR probably wont take the top spot, but you know what? i dont care. as long as its a good game and there is at least one server with lots of people on it ill be happy.
TBC didn't have the hook I wanted and so I only play the odd evening now untill my sub is up, but it was polished and upto the the AAA standards of WoW.
2007 will be the peek of WoW, after TBC launches in Asia, But dont expect WoW to die any time soon, they wont start to drop millions of subs this year even with LOTRO,WAR and AoC.
WoW gets another expansion at the end of the year about the same time AoC and WAR is released so Blizzard will need to do something special and change the forumula or they might be left behind, I will guess a massive PvP overhaul as both WAR and AoC are PvP centric.
Only time will tell.
_____________________________
SWG- (retired) 2 year vet.
WoW- (retired) 3 year vet.
EQ2- (retired) 1.5 year vet
Waiting for:
AoC // WAR // Darkfall
recent blue post about new wow expansion "Yes we are thinking on and planning on a new expansion. No, we aren't talking as of yet about what it will be.
We have many things we are working on including continuing to improve upon and add on to what we have in the game now"
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=86709864&pageNo=1&sid=1#1
they stated many times they will produce 1 expansion every 12 months approx.
i like wow and still enjoy logging in and playing but i am looking forward to war but for past few years i have got in the habit of not listening to hype i play the beta if i like it i buy it, try it for myself as everyone enjoys differant things thankfully
although reading the bitch fights on here does make for funny reading
Player houseing would be usless in WoW, Guild halls would be nice and ill agree should be in the game by now.
Everything else was not facts just your opinion.. which your entitled too, but pls dont lie to better your crusade.
Everything else was not facts just your opinion.. which your entitled too, but pls dont lie to better your crusade.
You call what wow has crafting, it is a sad sorry excuse for crafting even vanguards crafting is better.
WoW's crafting is in no way meaningful you can't really make anything that is better than a dungeon drop, games like Pre-Cu SWG and DAoC gad by far better crafting than wow.
As for everythng else being "just my opinion", does wow have pler/guild housing? No, Does wow have meaningful pvp? No, looks like i had facts in there.
Looks like you replyed after my edit
Agree 90% of what you can craft is usless when your lvl 70, but is high lvl armour patches, potions, enchants, trinkets, scopes, skinning (to support almost all proffesions) usless?
But I guess you never had your epic weapon enchanted, or your armour/attack power increased with armour patches, never had use for HP/MA pots, never needed a +10% mount speed trinket or a spell reflect trinket or needed a scope of your gun or bow or required some leather for your crafting?... and so on.
Do you epxect an item that can be crafted at 10/375 crafting to be usfull to some at lvl 70?
Your views on PvP is your opinion, PvP wont earn you a city or let you take over a zone, but it was NEVER designed to do that.
DAoC was my first MMO, so i know it verry well, and i will explain how Mytic was a bad game developer
Wen DAoC was relesed they only add pve content thill lvl 40, and than people jumped in frontiers to do 40-50 levels, at that time realm points were not there.(they were but you coldnt use them)
SI camme out , it was an ok expansion, and housings also, but they introduced /level 20 sistem that killed the low level places, this way wen any playerr joined DAoC wold have no fun, and only could see empty places
Than mytic, realised that they will never have EQ numbers(450k at that time, DAoC 250k), so they relesed ToA a raiding expancion, casual players abandoned DAoC because they couldnt compete in RvR, they didnt have the time for raids, nither to grind levels to artifacts,to be able to play in RvR, and many of hardcore didnt liked, because, they liked to pvp not to pve.
Than came NF Most of DAoC vets didnt liked to see their pvp to be changed, they were used to 8 vs 8 fights, and now they have to zerg castls or wonder for hours looking for an 8 vs 8 fight
DR was the last mess, wen Mytic implemented task quests were you run the same instance for 10 levels, and than you jump in the next one to do your next 10 levels, doing allweys the same 3 quests clean dungeon,kill all x mobs or kill the named mob(atention with no lore, the npc didnt tell you why he wants you to kill that mob(s)).
With this expansion all people who started DAoC were unable to see other players thill level 50 were they join pvp.
Lets not forguet buff bots, were mytic let you have a second account(other way you can compete in pvp), on normal servers everyone have a bot, and i am not exagerating.
Class imbalance, classes no one played cause they had 0 utilitty in pve/pvp groups (armasman), no one play melee characters baecause casters are overpowered.
And you are telling me that Mytic is a beter companie than Blizzard???
People forguet things realy fast.
PS. People dont want new things in their games. We dont pay for a game, to be playng a complete difrent game wen an expansion commes out. WoW played safe and did it well, FFXI do the same, and it have a stable population, and the same goes with EVE were they dont change the gameplay, just guive you more tools(this 3 are the only stable or growing games atm).Look at SWG,EQ1,EQ2, DAoC that changed their gameplay because of their rival, they just lost subs.
Good post Warcrytm, that is exactly what I have been trying to say. I do not trust Mythic.
I stil think that Wow will suffer this fall, it has introduced a lot of new people into MMOs. The BC content will run out for most this summer, and with no expansion in the near future, you can bet people are going to be looking elsewhere to try something new.
Let's face it, Wow endgame is about raiding. Only about 10% of the playerbase raids, so you are looking at 90% that has to exist on the limited other options in the game. Pretty easy to come to the conclusion that other MMO's will benefit due to Blizzard's lack of action.
If you play on a pvp server, expect the server population to drop significantly. Blizzard form of lame pvp will quickly be deserted by those looking for better pvp.
About xpacs and WoW, no matter what they implant it is still the same, grind to level (if capped increased again), gear up, learn strats, kill bosses. Adding player housing will only make the economy worse, what does your bed or house really do for you +5 spell damage? I doubt that.
"WoW = Waiting for Warhammer." I found that funny.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
With less then 150K subscribers, and a game thats still in beta with system reqs that most computers just can't do.
This is the funniest thing I've heard probably all year!
I think they are starting to back peddle on their yearly expansion plans.
The next expansion has to be better than BC. I loved BC for the first month. The problem
that I had was that they things they added should have been in WoW to begin with.
The faction system gone crazy, witht he cross instance key chains are something that
would have kept people busy longer than MC/BWL/AQ did. I know most guilds never completed Naxx.
I think they did a good job on the starting areas for the new races, but who really wants to do the Barrens or Duskwood for the millionth time. The Outland was fun, but I hit 70 too fast and just got bored doing quests for gold. Having a Flying Mount was NOT as fun as I had hoped. The instances just didn't seem to interest me, and as a Priest that was the nail in my UD's coffin.
I will buy LOTRO and WAR, maybe even AOC. I don't see any of these games putting a big dent in WoW.
WoW will suffer more from people getting bored and playing nonMMOs instead of people switching to new releases.
Ummm....satire?
Thats like if I said Orange soda is good and you go "No, you're wrong root-beer is good and nothing can come close to it." Don't say you're not; cause everyone can see you are doing that.
Siehst du mich
Erkennst du mich
Ganz tief in meinem Herz
ist noch ein Platz f?r dich
Ich suche dich
Ich sehne mich
nach dem was ich geliebt hab
doch ich find es nicht
Too bad WAR looks like trash.
Have you seen the vids? pvp looks like garbage. Even if it is pre beta, it sucks. AOC is on the same track; and the combat is way more dynamic then anything anyone has come up with in an mmo.
The warcraft universe is so much deeper then WARS as well. i passed out after reading the first few lines. I went to the wow wiki and wam! super cool stuff...
How is AOC gonna flop agien? killer graphics+a new kind of gameplay mechanic( A REAL UPGRADE FROM NORMAL RPGS, INCLUDING WAR.)+ the RTS element that WOW lacks?
But to get back on topic warcraft I dont think they will be letting loose the lichking in the next expantion. Thats to soon of a lvl jump.
Oh yeah and A COMPANY WHO CREATES THE LORE CANNOT SCREW IT UP!
-Benhamine
{IT'S HERE}Tank and Spank: Two Gamers' Quest for a Good MMO{IT'S HERE}
I hve seen some posts where WOW players think WAR(Warhammer online) is a clone of WOW! I decided to set the facts straight.
1st. Warhammer was around long before Blizzard was a company.
2nd. Most characterization of any fantasy setting takes on one of two looks. The S.A Salvatore Forgotten Realms,Ravenloft(D&D) characterization or from the master of all JRR Tolkien.
3rd. All game designers have ideas based off of other games, books or pictures. Its a given.
4th. The final fact. Hope you enjoy!! You can google it if you like!
[edit] First Edition
[edit] Published by Games Workshop
ARGUMENT SETTLED!
By the way WOW fanboy. Better learn whos lore is what!! Gotta love the nubs!
1: My house
2: My future wife
3: My future kids
4: My entire bank account
5: The rest that is left
That your wrong.
I'm sure Blizzard doesn't worry about Warhammer. why would they? Blizzard is going 8,5 million subscribers strong, and its STILL growing. Why would they fear a company that peaked at 250k subscribers with its game?
But I too am confident that the next WoW expansion will be well worth it. I'm satisfied with Burning Crusade so far.WAR is a great challenger no discussion there. The winner isn't the one with the most amount of subscribers, WoW is the biggest bomb on that front ever. But WAR I know will be the next big thing that people will talk about.
I don't expect all too many to switch from WoW to WAR because WoW is a game on it's own and there are sooo many fanboys playing it who have put too much time in it they wouldn't ever dream of leaving it. No matter what game that comes.
No matter what happends WAR will not have a positive impact for Blizzard. Since they indeed are going to loose subscribers.Ofcourse the winner is the one with the most subscribers. when talking about the "Big thing" in a franchise, it means the game that is the most popular, the most played, and the one that received the most media attention, and WAR will be neither of those. WAR is not a challenger. Fantasy Warhammer setting isn't that popular among video gamers. WAR doesn't have the franchise of Warhammer, and Mythic doesn't have the company recognition of Blizzard. Millions of gamers were actually VERY excited about the announcement of the new alliance race in the Burning Crusade. Loads of gamers were waiting for blizzard to open its mouth and say which race will join the alliance. Only very few people cared when Mythic announced the races.
WAR will do fine, no doubt about that. I'm sure they will reach a nice 150k~250k subscribers, if not a few more. But it will always live in the shadow of World of Warcraft, just like every other MMORPG out there.
I'm sorry Gameloading, but I think you're wrong on this one. You underestimate the power of good PvP. WoW's pvp = completely meaningless shit. Warhammer's PvP should be awesome coming from the makers of a great PvP game (DAoC). I'd be willing to bet a paycheck Warhammer will grab at least 1 million subscribers and you can quote this later if ya want.
But what games do we actually consider good PVP? Ultima Online and Dark age of Camelot were both considered good pvp games, and neither of them ever got above 250k subscribers. Only Lineage 1 and Lineage 2 were very successfull pvp games, and thats because of the success in asia. to my knowledge, Mythic doesn't even have plans for a WAR in asia. I don't really understand why you predict WARHAMMER will grab 1 million subscribers, you (and many others, not to just pick on you) act like its completely normal for an MMORPG to reach 1 million subscribers. Out of all those MMORPG's, only 3 of them ever made it above 1 million subscribers. thats WoW, Lineage and Lineage 2. No other. Even a game like Everquest back then, only capped at 400k ~ 500k subscribers. Your fully free to disagree with me, many people do.You must be new to MMO's because back when DAoC was in it prime 250k subs was a huge amount of people for a PvP game, consider the number game at the time was EQ with 500k sub, coming in as the second largest MMO with 250k subs wasn't a bad thing. Your comparing Apples and Oranges please next time made a valid argument instead of just talking out of your ass.
Getting 1 million subs ISN'T HARD, all you need to do is appeal to the Asian market, which WoW did and is the ONLY reason WoW has become so poplar. Most of those 8 millions subs WoW fanboi's love to pull out of their asses when bashing a game come from Asia. The rest come from new ignorant MMO players, and B.net kiddies.
Originally posted by DuraheLL
Originally posted by Gameloading
I doubt WAR will receive the same score as WoW. Mythic has never been able to rival Blizzard in terms of quality.
Maybe in your opinion Mythic has a greater reputation then blizzard, but the general gaming community doesn't agree with you by a long shot. Blizzard has always been known for its high quality RTS games. Starcraft and Warcraft are considered the national sports in Korea for crying out loud, and Blizzards reputation went through the roof with World of Warcraft.
Also, I wat not talking about the fantasy genre, I was talking about Warhammers fantasy setting.
I may sound like a Mythic hater, but honnestly, I'm not. I'm also curious the direction which they are going with WAR. but at the same time, I will also stay realistic. Warhammer is extremely popular. The tabletop game. So was WarCraft the strategy game.
Warhammer is said to have sold about 90 million units per year! You can imagine how many people who play it then.
I don't really understand why you go on and say stuff like "Mythic has never been able to rival Blizzard in terms of quality". Does that mean that they cannot succeed now? And I truly think DAOC is an extremely well done game and for it's time it was pretty advanced indeed.
WAR will be a huge bomb, and a success to that. Nothing indicates otherwise IMO. I doubt that when it comes, it's gonna be seen as a "worse game than WoW". I think that when people will ask which game they're gonna play people will mostly responce with WAR and WoW.
Exactly. TABLETOP game. not Computer or Video game. Dungeons & Dragons is also a widely popular tabletop game, yet we don't see D&DO reaching 1 million, or even 100k, subscribers either. and that really isn't because D&DO is such a horrible game. D&DO received pretty good ratings.
Ofcourse it doesn't mean that they cannot succeed now, But the past of Mythic is good, but not as good as Blizzards. DAOC is fine game, but it can't match the quality of World of Warcraft.
If you consider 150k~250k subscribers a huge bomb, then sure. But I doubt it will be much bigger then that. I can give you some indications that will show you that WAR won't be super successfull. Most MMORPG's released after the release of WoW is doing "bad" to "okay". Look at Auto Assault. ArchLord. Dungeons & Dragons Online. the only one that is really doing okay after the release of WoW is Vanguard. A lot of MMORPG's lost subscribers after WoW. Everquest. FFXI. DAOC, and especialy Lineage and Lineage 2 received a heavy downfall in subscribers.
Then there are a whole load of MMORPG's comming out, splitting up the Non-WoW MMORPG players even further.
WoW is hurting the mmorpg market. badly.
Quality of Warcraft? I consider that an insult to MMO dev's everywhere Mythic made there game from the ground up, and I have a lot of respect for them because of it. All WoW did was rip off other games! WoW did nothing new, or special they just copied everyone elses work.
Indications that WAR won't be super successfull? because crappy games like Vanguard and D&DO failed? I'm sure it had nothing to do with the games or there content or there developers! WoW made those games crappy! Show me ONE game that failed with a decent amount of hype and a good game company behind it? Oh wait you can't because it hasn't happend yet.
Thepwnblog.com - MMORPG blog
ROFLMAO!
Damn now I need another bath.
Ultima Online 98~04
Dark Age of Camelot 03~07
Final Fantasy XI 04~06
Guild Wars 05~08
World of Warcraft 04~05
Unsuccessful Tries: DFO/EQ2/DRaja/Rag/Req/RYL/9D/Cabal/KO/PSU/RF/GE/TO/TR/DDO/EVE/LoTRO/L2/RZ/SWG/VG