Xion187, thank you for admitting that you where only “guessing” and “speculating, perhaps you should have had made it clear you where doing so instead of appearing to make factual statements.
Although its tempting to do so with what little information we have those of us that have been following the game closely for more then a few months have experienced many vague promises or pointless speculation of beta and release dates all of which have come and gone no mater how much we wished to believe them.
The two links you have provided I and I’m sure many others have read already and they do not show definitive beta or release dates or show any evidence of this beta build that’s “almost feature complete” ,or showing they have a publisher or that they are self publishing etc its just talking.
Let me repost the quote from Asp’s preview concerning the possible timeframe for beta and release which is the latest information we have.
"Right now they are almost done with a new build that might be a candidate for beta. They seemed to indicate that they hoped for this build to reach stability by the end of October. While I didn’t get confirmation (not that I can reveal) that this could in fact be the beta version, I really got the feeling that this could be the case. Why do I believe this? The guys were talking with confidence that the game could be released in 2008 and, from what I’ve seen, I believe them. Additionally, they talked about different publishers and difficulties in the whole process of getting a game published as if this was part of the hold up."
That’s 1 almost, 1 might, 1 hoped, 1 feeling, 1 seemed, 1 believe, 2 talk and 3 could, with added difficulties a hold up and a “didn’t get confirmation” , but zero facts or definitive answers.
As someone has already said words to the effect of “but he said not that I can reveal” really demonstrates how desperate and oblivious to the obvious a person has to be to form a positive impression from this latest information.
know ig uess you can take that 2 way ! he was giving us hints or 2 he wasnt 100% sure or 3 he could say for positive cause of there NDA hince Y thre wasnt any new info except for the planend release in 2008
just dont get your hopes up and just hope for beta this year i am pretty sure tho on that but naything can happen but stop calling the devs liers FOR THE LOVE OF GOD *shots self*
I agree with you guys that we should not necessarily believe everything that is given to us, regardless of source. I think, though, that although some people have said that Asp and LOD might have something to gain from pulling a stunt over on the whole community, that likelihood is low. I consider the source more reliable than a review from the game developers themselves, anyway. I still think it is a third party.
Another question raised has been about showing off an older (but stable) demo build. This is something I have some first-hand experience on, having worked in the video game industry as a beta tester for more than three years. I understand that most of you may not realize this, but the way game development works is not always towards "more stable". Look at it like this:
When you have a specific goal (in this case a demo to show to people), you need to make a build that is stable enough to play through reliably while maintaining as many features as you can. If, though, you find that certain features are causing crashes or other instability issues, then you can just cut them from the demo. When you are building a beta version, though, you are trying to get everything stable for a wide player base (as per an open beta). So, if their development pattern matches my experience, then the demo was probably a special, stable build built just to show off combat and nothing much more. After that point, though, they sacrificed the stability of that build in favor of implementing, testing, and balancing the various other aspects of the game. This could result in a current build of the game that is unstable and largely unplayable, or at least not something you would want to show off to a visitor.
Supposing that that's true, it would explain why Asp does not talk about much aside from the combat of the game, and not much new. It would also explain why he wasn't put on a newer build of the game.
That being said, this post does not mean that I blindly believe everything positive posted about Darkfall. Call me a moderate on the issue.
Tits or GTFo, .... er i meant open beta (or even closed ) or GTFO. Sorry, im not here to bash DF but if they are so close to beta tell my why fucking marketing machine isnt hyping this game. So far we have 'coulds', 'mights' and so on, show us substance for god's sake.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting this preview was a stunt, but I still feel that Asp and his guild have got exclusive access and preferential treatment, excellent publicity for there guild and he has gained a form of celebrity within the dark fall community.
Whether or not this effected the previews objectivity or value is open to interpretation , but considering there is not a single negative remark by Asp during the entire preview I think it does raise questions if not at least eyebrows.
I appreciate what you are saying about the beta process but the fact that he was only shown a 1 year old build for the entire 90 minutes of his playtime (he says he played for that duration in his post title on the dark fall forums) and did not talk about anything that we have not already seen released by the developers.
I think poses questions like:-
Why did they just not show him the current build so he could preview something “almost feature complete”?, even If the stability problems where severe at least he could of previewed something new.
Why did they not show the previous build?, did this also have severe stability problems?
Did they have any version except the one year old build that did not have severe stability problems from any time since the one year old version?
Why did they not after showing him the basic features with the one year old build allow him to preview a less stable version so he could at least preview a few major and new features?
If the one year old build only has the basic game play features does that mean they have only started attempting to implement the major game play features over the past year?
If the current build has stability problems bad enough to discourage the developers from allowing it to be previewed is it realistic to expect a beta date this year?
How does this possibly effect the 2008 expected release date if a feature complete and stable beta version is still not ready?
I personally would of found a preview of a very buggy and unstable but almost feature complete version of dark fall much more interesting, exciting and reassuring then a preview of the one year old builds basic game play we have already seen on the few videos released already.
ALl we can do is just wait we cant make them shows or give us more info if they dont want to give it to us there not going to and i rather wait to PR the game after ig et into beta the less people that hammer the apps the mroe chance the people that actulyl belive the devs will get in but only time will tell there pr is very funky but whatever i dont care
I don’t think anyone is suggesting this preview was a stunt, but I still feel that Asp and his guild have got exclusive access and preferential treatment, excellent publicity for there guild and he has gained a form of celebrity within the dark fall community.
Whether or not this effected the previews objectivity or value is open to interpretation , but considering there is not a single negative remark by Asp during the entire preview I think it does raise questions if not at least eyebrows. I appreciate what you are saying about the beta process but the fact that he was only shown a 1 year old build for the entire 90 minutes of his playtime (he says he played for that duration in his post title on the dark fall forums) and did not talk about anything that we have not already seen released by the developers. I think poses questions like:- Why did they just not show him the current build so he could preview something “almost feature complete”?, even If the stability problems where severe at least he could of previewed something new. Why did they not show the previous build?, did this also have severe stability problems? Did they have any version except the one year old build that did not have severe stability problems from any time since the one year old version? Why did they not after showing him the basic features with the one year old build allow him to preview a less stable version so he could at least preview a few major and new features? If the one year old build only has the basic game play features does that mean they have only started attempting to implement the major game play features over the past year? If the current build has stability problems bad enough to discourage the developers from allowing it to be previewed is it realistic to expect a beta date this year? How does this possibly effect the 2008 expected release date if a feature complete and stable beta version is still not ready? I personally would of found a preview of a very buggy and unstable but almost feature complete version of dark fall much more interesting, exciting and reassuring then a preview of the one year old builds basic game play we have already seen on the few videos released already.
U caold find all the answers to your questions if you would bother to read the prewiew. Try to read more and talk less.
Name calling does not stop me or others asking questions or speculating about the most important part of the preview, what the reasons are for him playing a one year old version of the game. This poses obvious questions like why have they not got a previous more recent stable beta version to show instead of the one year old tech demo, or if they have why did not show it or why did they just not show him the current un-stable beta version so he could preview something showing what they have achieved currently and not something one year old we have already seen on the videos they released.
What is your problem? The one year old so called demo that you call is the previous beta build. This is not a single player demo, he played this on their servers with other developers who were playing this with him; Asp played an Orc while the Mage character that showed him around was the DF developer. Also Asp mentioned that when he contacted the DF developers they asked him if he would be able to delay the trip for a few days because they were working on the latest build and they wanted to show him the new build instead of the 1 year old beta build. Asp was on a business trip and could not delay his visit, reguardless he was still able to play DF and mentioned that even the 1 year old beta build was amazing.
You did not get your facts straight, neither did you read the preview; you're just here to bait people like I said and I still believe this to be the case.
Take a deep breath and relax before posting, insults and name calling does not remove the fact that I have never heard of Asp or LOD before this preview like many people I presume, so how could I form any sort of bias about something and someone I was not aware of?
The reason I and others did not find the preview satisfactory have been explained, if you choose to dismiss these by calling people names that’s your prerogative.
I disagree, I would say the preview would have been considerably better is Asp had asked the community what questions to ask, and I think the preview would have been better if he had felt a sense of responsibility to provide new information and reflect an objective and more capable impression to all us faithful followers.
No one here cares that you had no idea who Asp or LOD is, most sane people who played any of the previous PVP games would know who LOD is. Also you're still assuming that LOD went to Athens to represent the community as if somehow what they think matters. This was a private trip, sponsored by LOD they paid for it and you should be thankful that they are sharing what they know with the rest of the community. Also keep in mind that in Asp's review that he wrote up to the public is tame in comparison to the Review he gave to his LOD guildmates.
Asp said the reason why he did not get to play the current build was “Since the most current release wasn’t stable they set me up with a stable version from last year.”
U caold find all the answers to your questions if you would bother to read the prewiew. Try to read more and talk less.
Trying to dismiss my questions by accusing me of not reading the preview shows you are incapable of doing so or are choosing to make accusations to avoid contemplating there ramifications.
UbberGoober selectively quoting parts of my post and then compiling them into a new fabricated representation of my post of your construction minus my full post is disingenuous, If it was an honest mistake i will accept your apology.
What is your problem?
People who resort to chidlish name calling and being offensive and making irrational accusations.
The one year old so called demo that you call is the previous beta build.
"demo" is the abbreviation of demonstration, that's what it was, We know it's a one year old build previous build he says so in the preview.
This is not a single player demo,
I never said it was.
he played this on their servers with other developers who were playing this with him; Asp played an Orc while the Mage character that showed him around was the DF developer.
I never said he did not ,we can read that in the preview no need to repeat it.
Also Asp mentioned that when he contacted the DF developers they asked him if he would be able to delay the trip for a few days because they were working on the latest build and they wanted to show him the new build instead of the 1 year old beta build. Asp was on a business trip and could not delay his visit,
Can you provide evidence for this? he does not say they asked him to delay the trip in the preview.
reguardless he was still able to play DF and mentioned that even the 1 year old beta build was amazing.
I never desputed that, he says that in the preview.
You did not get your facts straight,
Please explain what facts i did not get straight.
neither did you read the preview;
Accusing me of not reading the preview does not answer my questions or concerns.
you're just here to bait people like I said and I still believe this to be the case.
If you believe that why are you replaying to my post's for second time even after previously accusing me of baiting?
No one here cares that you had no idea who Asp or LOD is,
I mentioned i had no prior knowledge of LOD or Asp becuase you accused me of being biased against them.
most sane people who played any of the previous PVP games would know who LOD is.
Suggesting that anyone who has played any of the previous PvP games that has no knowledge of LOD is not sane is preposterous.
Also you're still assuming that LOD went to Athens to represent the community as if somehow what they think matters.
I never assumed or stated that LOD or Asp was representing the community, I did say the preview might have been improved if they did.
This was a private trip, sponsored by LOD they paid for it
I thought this was a buisness trip?, Why did it need to be sponsored by LOD?, can you provide evidence or is it speculation?
and you should be thankful that they are sharing what they know with the rest of the community.
Oh please!, I should reject any form of rational thinking or criticism just becuase i should be eternally grateful that the mighty LOD has bestowed thier great knowledge on us poor unworthy wretches?
Also keep in mind that in Asp's review that he wrote up to the public is tame in comparison to the Review he gave to his LOD guildmates.
Can you provide evidence for this or is it speculation?
U caold find all the answers to your questions if you would bother to read the prewiew. Try to read more and talk less.
Trying to dismiss my questions by accusing me of not reading the preview shows you are incapable of doing so or are choosing to make accusations to avoid contemplating there ramifications.
Jordy, is right this thread is a bit of a waste you could do a bit more research rather than a lazy post. You can never say never but I am seeing enough evidence that this will be released and is being developed in house. Timescales for release doesn't matter to me the design concept is solid so I and a lot of others are happy(people I have had direct conversations with).
The distinct view I get from this thread is that you will never be happy with the provided responses and that your baseline is that of a total scheptic hence your ability to accept reasoned arguments.
A little pointless adding no value
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
yep i think alot of people are just over thinking that they dont show everything we want to know. It doesnt meant they dont have nothing to show it most likly means they just dont want to and thats the way it should be.
UbberGoober selectively quoting parts of my post and then compiling them into a new fabricated representation of my post of your construction minus my full post is disingenuous, If it was an honest mistake i will accept your apology.
You're not going to get an apology, you don't deserve one.
Can you provide evidence for this? he does not say they asked him to delay the trip in the preview.
Here you got Troll
Asp from the Lords of Death guild visited us today. He was in a neighboring country on business and he made the trip down to meet us, see what we're up to, and to hang out. We were hoping to maybe give him a small beta preview but he couldn't delay his visit until Monday for our beta build to be up again. by Tasos. Here's the link www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/2289-Darkfall-Dev-Journal-15-A-Visit-From-a-Fan
If you bothered to read up on the weekly reports made by Tasos you would know what the problem was, but apparently you were to busy trolling to even get your story straight.
I mentioned i had no prior knowledge of LOD or Asp becuase you accused me of being biased against them.
You were biased, and you still are you're entire premise that you argue is illogical.
Suggesting that anyone who has played any of the previous PvP games that has no knowledge of LOD is not sane is preposterous.
LOD is a pretty well known guild, not knowing who they are just makes you clueless. Seriously don't you know any of the bigger guilds and who they are? They do have a reputation, you probably don't know who Nurfed, Lotd, Conquest, etc. are either right?
I thought this was a buisness trip?, Why did it need to be sponsored by LOD?, can you provide evidence or is it speculation?
Asp went to eastern Europe on a business trip, but the country he went to was not Greece; he flew from his business trip to Greece because it was close to where he was. His guildies pitched in to cover some of his expenses that would not have been covered. Why don't you do you're own research? I am not going to spoonfeed you, why are you even asking me to prove this to you? Do you even care? It seems to me that you don't because you're arguing with someone who is close to LOD and I think I know a tad bit more then what you know.
Also keep in mind that in Asp's review that he wrote up to the public is tame in comparison to the Review he gave to his LOD guildmates.
Can you provide evidence for this or is it speculation?
No I am not going to do that sorry, I offered you more then enough of table scraps; nice try though.
UbberGoober selectively quoting parts of my post and then compiling them into a new fabricated representation of my post of your construction minus my full post is disingenuous, If it was an honest mistake i will accept your apology. You're not going to get an apology, you don't deserve one. Stop flaming him, all he did was question something and you flipped out.
Can you provide evidence for this? he does not say they asked him to delay the trip in the preview. Here you got Troll Because anyone who doesn't agree with you must be a troll. Asp from the Lords of Death guild visited us today. He was in a neighboring country on business and he made the trip down to meet us, see what we're up to, and to hang out. We were hoping to maybe give him a small beta preview but he couldn't delay his visit until Monday for our beta build to be up again. by Tasos. Here's the link www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/2289-Darkfall-Dev-Journal-15-A-Visit-From-a-Fan If you bothered to read up on the weekly reports made by Tasos you would know what the problem was, but apparently you were to busy trolling to even get your story straight. Still wasn't trolling, he has yet to do so. The only troll in earshot here is you.
I mentioned i had no prior knowledge of LOD or Asp becuase you accused me of being biased against them. You were biased, and you still are you're entire premise that you argue is illogical. You are one of the most biased people I have ever heard. If I were to say anything even remotely negative about DF you would probably flip out on me as well.
Suggesting that anyone who has played any of the previous PvP games that has no knowledge of LOD is not sane is preposterous. LOD is a pretty well known guild, not knowing who they are just makes you clueless. Seriously don't you know any of the bigger guilds and who they are? They do have a reputation, you probably don't know who Nurfed, Lotd, Conquest, etc. are either right? Before this review was announced, I wouldn't be able to name anyone outside of the DF community who would even come close to naming that guild. Not knowing one solitary guild does not make one clueless, it just means that they haven't heard of one guild. I know lots of big guilds that you've probably never heard of because they're outside of your community. Fact is, LOD is very unimportant.
I thought this was a buisness trip?, Why did it need to be sponsored by LOD?, can you provide evidence or is it speculation? Asp went to eastern Europe on a business trip, but the country he went to was not Greece; he flew from his business trip to Greece because it was close to where he was. His guildies pitched in to cover some of his expenses that would not have been covered. Why don't you do you're own research? I am not going to spoonfeed you, why are you even asking me to prove this to you? Do you even care? It seems to me that you don't because you're arguing with someone who is close to LOD and I think I know a tad bit more then what you know. Just because he didn't know why he went doesn't make him clueless either. He wasn't arguing either, your just saying he did. He asked a question, in a non-offensive way and you tell him to figure it out for himself, claim that he's trying yo argue with you, and just be generally condescending.
Also keep in mind that in Asp's review that he wrote up to the public is tame in comparison to the Review he gave to his LOD guildmates. Can you provide evidence for this or is it speculation? No I am not going to do that sorry, I offered you more then enough of table scraps; nice try though. Now you imply that he's trying to trick you, while being even more insulting and condescending. Classy buddy, real classy. It's people like you that are making me wish DF comes out, to siphon people like you away from the other games. Shame really, I'd like to play it, but if there's more than one person like you in the community, I'd play an Asian Grinder and save myself some misery.
na the op isnt a troll he made only 1 thread a troll is osmeone that hijacks everythread trying to disprove any facts the op just doesnt understand and thats all
I would define a troll as someone who looks for threads to hijack, is generally rude, refuses to acknowledge other's points (even if they are on the same side in some occasions), and doesn't bring up any new opinions (Usually just calling someone else's ideas dumb without backing it up). But ya, same general thing Xion.
These are my concerns about the latest preview by Asp, I was wondering if anyone else was not satisfied with this enough to remove there doubt’s about this game. The fundamental issue I have with this “preview” is that it’s a preview of a 1 year old tech demonstration running on their office network and not a beta version with all the games features implemented running with dedicated server infrastructure capable of handling thousands of players concurrently. If you watch the various videos released by the developers showing this tech demo whilst keeping in mind the preview you can clearly see that nearly all the things he described have already been shown. Roughly 50% of the preview is fluff that contains no information directly relating to the project and is only his subjective opinions and observations, no actual facts or figures on the development progress or process. Most of the QA session with the developers only covers general information anyone can read on the website FAQ or is common knowledge by anyone who has even casually been following the game, and a lot of the issues, concepts or features they discuss are not demonstrated in the tech demo. The majority of the QA after the Preview I presume by the members of his guild again are just general questions answered already by developers or the FAQ, fluff or his opinion or what we have been told but not his actual experience because it was not present in the tech demo. For anyone that’s been following this project for years and seen beta dates come and go I found this quote particularly poignant and also almost amusing in a depressing way after highlighting.
Right now they are almost done with a new build that might be a candidate for beta. They seemed to indicate that they hoped for this build to reach stability by the end of October. While I didn’t get confirmation (not that I can reveal) that this could in fact be the beta version, I really got the feeling that this could be the case. Why do I believe this? The guys were talking with confidence that the game could be released in 2008 and, from what I’ve seen, I believe them. Additionally, they talked about different publishers and difficulties in the whole process of getting a game published as if this was part of the hold up.
"Frankly, based on the demo I played, I felt I could put up with a heck of a lot of issues just to begin playing this thing as soon as possible. IT LOOKED AND PLAYED THAT GOOD!" I cannot understand the difficulties they are experiencing finding a publisher if Asp’s experience of the tech demo was this favorable, this discrepancy encourages me to believe that its not that good or there are other issues involved that have not been disclosed. The over all impression I got is that this was purely a PR attempt to get some positive coverage primarily directed at people who have no prior knowledge of the game or of people who have dismissed the game for various reasons. I would be pleasantly surprised if my suspicions are unfounded, but I will not be satisfied until independent members of the press start writing previews after playing a beta version of dark fall and not a tech demo and we start to get concrete information demonstrated by game play experience.
I haven't followed Darkfall as long as most people here. I can't even say I follow it closely now so much as passively catch bits of info and rumors as they float through these forums.
That said, it seems that, if nothing else, this game has provided endless hours of entertainment for plenty of people. Sure, maybe not in the virtual world we may have expected, but I believe people must truly love both defending and attacking this game.
No matter how the thread starts; Supporting or Criticizing, they always go the same route. Intelligent discourse is quickly dismissed in favor of name calling and less thought provoking dialogue. The conversation becomes more about who can be more insulting, and who has more phantom inside information that they can't reveal sources for, then about actually seeing each other's view points and, at worst, agreeing to disagree based on the interpretation of available information.
This thread started well. An interpretation of the most recent information was presented. People responded with their thoughts and stated where they interpreted things differently. That lasted about a page or so, but it was great to read. For a moment, it was nice to see rational optimism meet with reasoned concern.
I suppose this post will get lost in the ensuing noise, but if nothing else, I hope people realize that a games success is not just in it's features, but in it's community as well. An irrational community that is willing to dismiss any critique without addressing the points of contention will quickly lose the status of "Massive Multiplayer" and will end up locked into a community of redundancy lacking in the fresh air that is critical thought.
Either way, I'm sure this game will continue to deliver until such time as it is released. So I suppose I will just keep watching from the sideline in the hopes the maturity of the game is reflected in those who love it.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Nobody is going to decipher "doubting Thomas". Never fear... I am here and I've got your back:
Basically, Jesus was crucified and on the third day He rose again. He showed himself to Mary and all of his disciples. One of his disciples (Thomas) wanted proof that he was truly Jesus. So, Jesus told him to put his finger in the hole in the wounds on his hands from where nails were driven through. It was because he needed the proof that the expression Doubting Thomas came. It's a good read... in fact... I recommend the entire Bible
Comments
Xion187, thank you for admitting that you where only “guessing” and “speculating, perhaps you should have had made it clear you where doing so instead of appearing to make factual statements.
Although its tempting to do so with what little information we have those of us that have been following the game closely for more then a few months have experienced many vague promises or pointless speculation of beta and release dates all of which have come and gone no mater how much we wished to believe them.
The two links you have provided I and I’m sure many others have read already and they do not show definitive beta or release dates or show any evidence of this beta build that’s “almost feature complete” ,or showing they have a publisher or that they are self publishing etc its just talking.
Let me repost the quote from Asp’s preview concerning the possible timeframe for beta and release which is the latest information we have.
"Right now they are almost done with a new build that might be a candidate for beta. They seemed to indicate that they hoped for this build to reach stability by the end of October. While I didn’t get confirmation (not that I can reveal) that this could in fact be the beta version, I really got the feeling that this could be the case. Why do I believe this? The guys were talking with confidence that the game could be released in 2008 and, from what I’ve seen, I believe them. Additionally, they talked about different publishers and difficulties in the whole process of getting a game published as if this was part of the hold up."
That’s 1 almost, 1 might, 1 hoped, 1 feeling, 1 seemed, 1 believe, 2 talk and 3 could, with added difficulties a hold up and a “didn’t get confirmation” , but zero facts or definitive answers.
know ig uess you can take that 2 way ! he was giving us hints or 2 he wasnt 100% sure or 3 he could say for positive cause of there NDA hince Y thre wasnt any new info except for the planend release in 2008
just dont get your hopes up and just hope for beta this year i am pretty sure tho on that but naything can happen but stop calling the devs liers FOR THE LOVE OF GOD *shots self*
I agree with you guys that we should not necessarily believe everything that is given to us, regardless of source. I think, though, that although some people have said that Asp and LOD might have something to gain from pulling a stunt over on the whole community, that likelihood is low. I consider the source more reliable than a review from the game developers themselves, anyway. I still think it is a third party.
Another question raised has been about showing off an older (but stable) demo build. This is something I have some first-hand experience on, having worked in the video game industry as a beta tester for more than three years. I understand that most of you may not realize this, but the way game development works is not always towards "more stable". Look at it like this:
When you have a specific goal (in this case a demo to show to people), you need to make a build that is stable enough to play through reliably while maintaining as many features as you can. If, though, you find that certain features are causing crashes or other instability issues, then you can just cut them from the demo. When you are building a beta version, though, you are trying to get everything stable for a wide player base (as per an open beta). So, if their development pattern matches my experience, then the demo was probably a special, stable build built just to show off combat and nothing much more. After that point, though, they sacrificed the stability of that build in favor of implementing, testing, and balancing the various other aspects of the game. This could result in a current build of the game that is unstable and largely unplayable, or at least not something you would want to show off to a visitor.
Supposing that that's true, it would explain why Asp does not talk about much aside from the combat of the game, and not much new. It would also explain why he wasn't put on a newer build of the game.
That being said, this post does not mean that I blindly believe everything positive posted about Darkfall. Call me a moderate on the issue.
fair enoungh
Tits or GTFo, .... er i meant open beta (or even closed ) or GTFO. Sorry, im not here to bash DF but if they are so close to beta tell my why fucking marketing machine isnt hyping this game. So far we have 'coulds', 'mights' and so on, show us substance for god's sake.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting this preview was a stunt, but I still feel that Asp and his guild have got exclusive access and preferential treatment, excellent publicity for there guild and he has gained a form of celebrity within the dark fall community.
Whether or not this effected the previews objectivity or value is open to interpretation , but considering there is not a single negative remark by Asp during the entire preview I think it does raise questions if not at least eyebrows.
I appreciate what you are saying about the beta process but the fact that he was only shown a 1 year old build for the entire 90 minutes of his playtime (he says he played for that duration in his post title on the dark fall forums) and did not talk about anything that we have not already seen released by the developers.
I think poses questions like:-
Why did they just not show him the current build so he could preview something “almost feature complete”?, even If the stability problems where severe at least he could of previewed something new.
Why did they not show the previous build?, did this also have severe stability problems?
Did they have any version except the one year old build that did not have severe stability problems from any time since the one year old version?
Why did they not after showing him the basic features with the one year old build allow him to preview a less stable version so he could at least preview a few major and new features?
If the one year old build only has the basic game play features does that mean they have only started attempting to implement the major game play features over the past year?
If the current build has stability problems bad enough to discourage the developers from allowing it to be previewed is it realistic to expect a beta date this year?
How does this possibly effect the 2008 expected release date if a feature complete and stable beta version is still not ready?
I personally would of found a preview of a very buggy and unstable but almost feature complete version of dark fall much more interesting, exciting and reassuring then a preview of the one year old builds basic game play we have already seen on the few videos released already.
ALl we can do is just wait we cant make them shows or give us more info if they dont want to give it to us there not going to and i rather wait to PR the game after ig et into beta the less people that hammer the apps the mroe chance the people that actulyl belive the devs will get in but only time will tell there pr is very funky but whatever i dont care
U caold find all the answers to your questions if you would bother to read the prewiew. Try to read more and talk less.
Name calling does not stop me or others asking questions or speculating about the most important part of the preview, what the reasons are for him playing a one year old version of the game.
This poses obvious questions like why have they not got a previous more recent stable beta version to show instead of the one year old tech demo, or if they have why did not show it or why did they just not show him the current un-stable beta version so he could preview something showing what they have achieved currently and not something one year old we have already seen on the videos they released.
What is your problem? The one year old so called demo that you call is the previous beta build. This is not a single player demo, he played this on their servers with other developers who were playing this with him; Asp played an Orc while the Mage character that showed him around was the DF developer. Also Asp mentioned that when he contacted the DF developers they asked him if he would be able to delay the trip for a few days because they were working on the latest build and they wanted to show him the new build instead of the 1 year old beta build. Asp was on a business trip and could not delay his visit, reguardless he was still able to play DF and mentioned that even the 1 year old beta build was amazing.
You did not get your facts straight, neither did you read the preview; you're just here to bait people like I said and I still believe this to be the case.
Take a deep breath and relax before posting, insults and name calling does not remove the fact that I have never heard of Asp or LOD before this preview like many people I presume, so how could I form any sort of bias about something and someone I was not aware of?
The reason I and others did not find the preview satisfactory have been explained, if you choose to dismiss these by calling people names that’s your prerogative.
I disagree, I would say the preview would have been considerably better is Asp had asked the community what questions to ask, and I think the preview would have been better if he had felt a sense of responsibility to provide new information and reflect an objective and more capable impression to all us faithful followers.
No one here cares that you had no idea who Asp or LOD is, most sane people who played any of the previous PVP games would know who LOD is. Also you're still assuming that LOD went to Athens to represent the community as if somehow what they think matters. This was a private trip, sponsored by LOD they paid for it and you should be thankful that they are sharing what they know with the rest of the community. Also keep in mind that in Asp's review that he wrote up to the public is tame in comparison to the Review he gave to his LOD guildmates.
Asp said the reason why he did not get to play the current build was “Since the most current release wasn’t stable they set me up with a stable version from last year.”
who cares about this pos WAR is on the way ppl....
Care to explain how so?
war is a upgraded WoW
Trying to dismiss my questions by accusing me of not reading the preview shows you are incapable of doing so or are choosing to make accusations to avoid contemplating there ramifications.
UbberGoober selectively quoting parts of my post and then compiling them into a new fabricated representation of my post of your construction minus my full post is disingenuous, If it was an honest mistake i will accept your apology.
What is your problem?
People who resort to chidlish name calling and being offensive and making irrational accusations.
The one year old so called demo that you call is the previous beta build.
"demo" is the abbreviation of demonstration, that's what it was, We know it's a one year old build previous build he says so in the preview.
This is not a single player demo,
I never said it was.
he played this on their servers with other developers who were playing this with him; Asp played an Orc while the Mage character that showed him around was the DF developer.
I never said he did not ,we can read that in the preview no need to repeat it.
Also Asp mentioned that when he contacted the DF developers they asked him if he would be able to delay the trip for a few days because they were working on the latest build and they wanted to show him the new build instead of the 1 year old beta build. Asp was on a business trip and could not delay his visit,
Can you provide evidence for this? he does not say they asked him to delay the trip in the preview.
reguardless he was still able to play DF and mentioned that even the 1 year old beta build was amazing.
I never desputed that, he says that in the preview.
You did not get your facts straight,
Please explain what facts i did not get straight.
neither did you read the preview;
Accusing me of not reading the preview does not answer my questions or concerns.
you're just here to bait people like I said and I still believe this to be the case.
If you believe that why are you replaying to my post's for second time even after previously accusing me of baiting?
No one here cares that you had no idea who Asp or LOD is,
I mentioned i had no prior knowledge of LOD or Asp becuase you accused me of being biased against them.
most sane people who played any of the previous PVP games would know who LOD is.
Suggesting that anyone who has played any of the previous PvP games that has no knowledge of LOD is not sane is preposterous.
Also you're still assuming that LOD went to Athens to represent the community as if somehow what they think matters.
I never assumed or stated that LOD or Asp was representing the community, I did say the preview might have been improved if they did.
This was a private trip, sponsored by LOD they paid for it
I thought this was a buisness trip?, Why did it need to be sponsored by LOD?, can you provide evidence or is it speculation?
and you should be thankful that they are sharing what they know with the rest of the community.
Oh please!, I should reject any form of rational thinking or criticism just becuase i should be eternally grateful that the mighty LOD has bestowed thier great knowledge on us poor unworthy wretches?
Also keep in mind that in Asp's review that he wrote up to the public is tame in comparison to the Review he gave to his LOD guildmates.
Can you provide evidence for this or is it speculation?
Trying to dismiss my questions by accusing me of not reading the preview shows you are incapable of doing so or are choosing to make accusations to avoid contemplating there ramifications.
Jordy, is right this thread is a bit of a waste you could do a bit more research rather than a lazy post. You can never say never but I am seeing enough evidence that this will be released and is being developed in house. Timescales for release doesn't matter to me the design concept is solid so I and a lot of others are happy(people I have had direct conversations with).
The distinct view I get from this thread is that you will never be happy with the provided responses and that your baseline is that of a total scheptic hence your ability to accept reasoned arguments.
A little pointless adding no value
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
yep i think alot of people are just over thinking that they dont show everything we want to know. It doesnt meant they dont have nothing to show it most likly means they just dont want to and thats the way it should be.
Ok, now i have made my gf to agree to go to Athen. I told her i wanted to see some old stones and shit.
Now i just have to get Aventurine to let me in.....that could could be a problem : (
But if Asp could.....i wont be impossible. And i cant send a e-mail, they must get a few of those every day.
If i get in...we will know for sure. No bull¤#"* or anything.
UbberGoober selectively quoting parts of my post and then compiling them into a new fabricated representation of my post of your construction minus my full post is disingenuous, If it was an honest mistake i will accept your apology.
You're not going to get an apology, you don't deserve one.
Can you provide evidence for this? he does not say they asked him to delay the trip in the preview.
Here you got Troll
Asp from the Lords of Death guild visited us today. He was in a neighboring country on business and he made the trip down to meet us, see what we're up to, and to hang out. We were hoping to maybe give him a small beta preview but he couldn't delay his visit until Monday for our beta build to be up again. by Tasos. Here's the link www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/2289-Darkfall-Dev-Journal-15-A-Visit-From-a-Fan
If you bothered to read up on the weekly reports made by Tasos you would know what the problem was, but apparently you were to busy trolling to even get your story straight.
I mentioned i had no prior knowledge of LOD or Asp becuase you accused me of being biased against them.
You were biased, and you still are you're entire premise that you argue is illogical.
Suggesting that anyone who has played any of the previous PvP games that has no knowledge of LOD is not sane is preposterous.
LOD is a pretty well known guild, not knowing who they are just makes you clueless. Seriously don't you know any of the bigger guilds and who they are? They do have a reputation, you probably don't know who Nurfed, Lotd, Conquest, etc. are either right?
I thought this was a buisness trip?, Why did it need to be sponsored by LOD?, can you provide evidence or is it speculation?
Asp went to eastern Europe on a business trip, but the country he went to was not Greece; he flew from his business trip to Greece because it was close to where he was. His guildies pitched in to cover some of his expenses that would not have been covered. Why don't you do you're own research? I am not going to spoonfeed you, why are you even asking me to prove this to you? Do you even care? It seems to me that you don't because you're arguing with someone who is close to LOD and I think I know a tad bit more then what you know.
Also keep in mind that in Asp's review that he wrote up to the public is tame in comparison to the Review he gave to his LOD guildmates.
Can you provide evidence for this or is it speculation?
No I am not going to do that sorry, I offered you more then enough of table scraps; nice try though.
LOL and the point of calling each other trolls OO
na the op isnt a troll he made only 1 thread a troll is osmeone that hijacks everythread trying to disprove any facts the op just doesnt understand and thats all
I would define a troll as someone who looks for threads to hijack, is generally rude, refuses to acknowledge other's points (even if they are on the same side in some occasions), and doesn't bring up any new opinions (Usually just calling someone else's ideas dumb without backing it up). But ya, same general thing Xion.
Chuck Norris.
I haven't followed Darkfall as long as most people here. I can't even say I follow it closely now so much as passively catch bits of info and rumors as they float through these forums.
That said, it seems that, if nothing else, this game has provided endless hours of entertainment for plenty of people. Sure, maybe not in the virtual world we may have expected, but I believe people must truly love both defending and attacking this game.
No matter how the thread starts; Supporting or Criticizing, they always go the same route. Intelligent discourse is quickly dismissed in favor of name calling and less thought provoking dialogue. The conversation becomes more about who can be more insulting, and who has more phantom inside information that they can't reveal sources for, then about actually seeing each other's view points and, at worst, agreeing to disagree based on the interpretation of available information.
This thread started well. An interpretation of the most recent information was presented. People responded with their thoughts and stated where they interpreted things differently. That lasted about a page or so, but it was great to read. For a moment, it was nice to see rational optimism meet with reasoned concern.
I suppose this post will get lost in the ensuing noise, but if nothing else, I hope people realize that a games success is not just in it's features, but in it's community as well. An irrational community that is willing to dismiss any critique without addressing the points of contention will quickly lose the status of "Massive Multiplayer" and will end up locked into a community of redundancy lacking in the fresh air that is critical thought.
Either way, I'm sure this game will continue to deliver until such time as it is released. So I suppose I will just keep watching from the sideline in the hopes the maturity of the game is reflected in those who love it.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Nobody is going to decipher "doubting Thomas". Never fear... I am here and I've got your back:
Basically, Jesus was crucified and on the third day He rose again. He showed himself to Mary and all of his disciples. One of his disciples (Thomas) wanted proof that he was truly Jesus. So, Jesus told him to put his finger in the hole in the wounds on his hands from where nails were driven through. It was because he needed the proof that the expression Doubting Thomas came. It's a good read... in fact... I recommend the entire Bible
Why do you guys use so much energy on trying to debunk something you haven't invested real money in ?
If you you have FUD, you can easily just move on to another game. Please educate me because I really, really do not understand it.
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And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE